Katholic Kiwi Kathedral (Catholocism General) - Byzantine? Ethnic? Roman? It doesn't matter. It's a place for Catholic Kiwis to discuss Catholicism and inquirers to inquire

[HOMO FOR LIFE RETURNS]

It's been over for something like 70 years (in reality a lot longer, but about 70 from the tradcath perspective).

Conservative Catholics absolutely will not allow themselves to see the forest for the trees. They'll tie themselves into knots to justify how Pope Climate-Sins Pachamama-Gay-Blessing-But-Not-Actually-Gay-Blessing-Don't-Worry-Guys XVCMLIIIII technically didn't violate canon 14,926,602,745,592 (which you'd need to prove in a court of law to show that he's a public apostate) by gassing up Buddhists as having "precious spiritual treasures".

They just care that he's not "woke" in a Prager U sense, but if he is don't worry because it's not Ex Cathedra (as though infallibility and defection were the same question).

It's the Qanon religion, and I say this as someone who really likes a lot of Catholics.

At least its not Anglican. That's fucking satanic at this point.

 

[Local Farmer]

The Pope is a a registered Republican

 

[Local Farmer]

Prepare for the Great Sneeding

 

[HOMO FOR LIFE RETURNS]

Prepare for the Great Sneeding
View attachment 7336001

So what. Romney was a republican. He was a cuck and a sellout.

 

[insensitive]

Yeah this guy is a fucking retard.


I cant wait to hear MORE cope from you zealous idiots. HAVE FUN, you only have to wait 15 more years to roll the (stacked) dice again

 

[Squid Diddler]

Insults are all you have. There's no way to defend Roman Catholicism unless you're already in the crab-trap.


They could start by recognizing that Papal Infallibility is obviously not true, considering that Honorius was anathematized by an Ecumenical Council for Monothelitism. They could also explain how Pope Leo III erecting the Nicene Creed without the filioque on silver tablets outside the crypt of St. Peter's Basilica with the inscription "For love and defense of the Orthodox Faith" wasn't "Ex Cathedra".

They could also admit that Vatican 1 was an obvious political response to the political changes and revolutions of the 19th century (consolidating what power they still had), just as Vatican II coincided with the Vatican's realignment with Western powers after WWII (which is why post Vatican II Catholicism is just a giant NGO crab-walking into oblivion).


If you're aware, they were aware.


If you welcome debate, then you can respond to this post and the few I've linked to regarding Nostra Aetate.

What bad-faith, tired jabs. Infallibility doesn’t apply to Honorius’ private letters. His comments on Monothelitism were criticized for negligence, not heresy. The council of Constantinople anathematized Honorius posthumously for failing to suppress heresy, not for teaching it. This does not contradict infallibility. The Church’s consistent teaching against Monothelitism since then proves this.

Leo's filioque omission was to avoid scandal, not a denial of theological truth, i.e., it was diplomatic, not dogmatic, and does not meet the criteria for an ex cathedra statement. It lacks universal scope, doctrinal definition, and binding intent, and was not definitive/irrevocable.

You chose very weak "gotchas", I've heard much better.

 

[BrightonAndHoveAlbion]

At least its not Anglican. That's fucking satanic at this point.

The Anglicans haven't even managed to get a new Archbishop since the start of the year. Watch their King convert to Islam and the 'Anglican Church' destroy itself.

 

[Local Farmer]

So what. Romney was a republican. He was a cuck and a sellout.

And you sellout Christ for temporal affairs. He only voted Republican one time in 2024

 

[Squid Diddler]

Remember Vance hasn’t even baptized his own children to keep his Pagan wife happy

I don't think this is true, I found evidence that at least one is baptized according to him, and nothing either way on the other two.

 

[HOMO FOR LIFE RETURNS]

And you sellout Christ for temporal affairs. He only voted Republican one time in 2024

Mmm that's based

 

[Local Farmer]

Yeah this guy is a fucking retard.
View attachment 7336002View attachment 7336005View attachment 7336006
View attachment 7335999
I cant wait to hear MORE cope from you zealous idiots. HAVE FUN, you only have to wait 15 more years to roll the (stacked) dice again

Noooo Stalker Child, it is you who will cope and sneed, enjoy my Prayers

 

[Meat Target]

Prepare for the Great Sneeding
View attachment 7336001

Now I'm starting to wonder what Vance brought to his meeting with Francis.

 

[Red_Cap]

Never thought it'd be an American church. Pretty cool!

I already know there'd be some black-pilling about some of the counter-signaling.

At this point I'm convinced America and Vatican are talking passed each other on immigration.

It's absolutely the Christian ethic that Christ-like love is universal and welcomes the stranger. It's Catholic teaching that mercy is to be provided to the downtrodden seeking a better way of life. The problem is that this is long-term thinking, and America is dealing with problems that require very short-term solutions, and badly.

The Vatican can preach about the common good for all as much as it likes, but that's difficult to achieve when people are drugged, raped, and/or killed. The Holy See comes off tone deaf when Conservatives run on this and their contribution is "think of the migrants!"

Neither are wrong, but they're not looking at the same thing. Because they aren't in sync, they come off inherently antagonistic toward one another and create friction where it isn't productive.

At the end of the day I'm optimistic. I hope our new Pope also gets caught on hot mics disparaging gays.

 

[Local Farmer]

View attachment 7273795
NON EXPEDIT!

BY PAPAL DECREE OF I, BISHOP LOCAL FARMER, HEREBY DECLARE ANATHEMA TO ANYONE RESPONDING TO FRENCH DIP, SHOULD FRENCH DIP SPEAK OUT OF LINE AGAIN WE WILL PHOTOSHOP HIS HANDS ON TO MORE AND MORE LUDICROUS PLACES

​

Seriously Guys, he’s not going to listen or care, there is no thread moderator so of course we’re going to get retards like him. Just downvote and ignore them going forward.

Tapping the sign

 

[California Newt]

That's a bold charge. Steel man your own argument, as you've stated in my quote, or I won't bother engaging with you.

Sure. I'll link back to the Nostra Aetate discussion for more context.

Every Pope since Vatican II has operated in-line with Nostra Aetate, which affirms that Muslims worship the God of Abraham. It also affirms that other pagan religions also worship God, although with imperfections and misunderstandings. The joint prayer with Muslims (in mosques), Buddhists, and other religions, as well as the frequent assertions that these traditions have "precious spiritual treasures", publicly and consistently demonstrates this orientation.

Their position is closer to Perennialism. Abraham didn't worship the God of the Philosophers; he worshipped the Trinity—and not in a superficial and ambiguous way that's tacked onto the unmoved mover of Aristotle and Maimonides. He worshipped the Trinity of St. Basil the Great, St. John of Damascus, and St. Gregory of Nyssa: the same Trinity as St. Photius the Great, who's paradoxically venerated—along with St. Gregory Palamas—in Uniate churches.

At least its not Anglican. That's fucking satanic at this point.

You make a point; you make a point.

What bad-faith, tired jabs. Infallibility doesn’t apply to Honorius’ private letters. His comments on Monothelitism were criticized for negligence, not heresy. The council of Constantinople anathematized Honorius posthumously for failing to suppress heresy, not for teaching it. This does not contradict infallibility. The Church’s consistent teaching against Monothelitism since then proves this.

He's explicitly condemned as a heretic, and his condemnation as such was approved by Pope Leo II. Even if you wanted to somehow wriggle out of this being an infallibility issue (he's also explicitly condemned for disseminating the heresy among the faithful, whether the letters are private or not), the bigger problem is that he's a heretic condemned by an ecumenical council. The Pope is also supposed to be indefectible. Whether you teach or not, you can't be condemned as a Heretic and be the Pope.

Leo's filioque omission was to avoid scandal, not a denial of theological truth, i.e., it was diplomatic, not dogmatic, and does not meet the criteria for an ex cathedra statement. It lacks universal scope, doctrinal definition, and binding intent, and was not definitive/irrevocable.

On what basis do you say that it lacks all three of those, or that he didn't intend it as dogmatic? Is it just because that interpretation allows you to preserve your paradigm, or do you have some kind of evidence that a guy putting a doctrinal definition (the creed) on big silver tablets for "defense of the Orthodox faith" wasn't intending that to be universal, binding, and definitive?

 

[dame dudi jench]

Monothelitism

I'm not catholic so I had to look this one up. I read a bunch of materials that explained the competing doctrines as jesus having one will vs. a human will subordinate to a second divine will. but none of the sources say why this mattered - is this a purely doctrinal abstract argument like arianism or did those monothelitism entail different ethical or political positions than dyothelitism?

 

[Nothing Is Written]

I'll link back to the Nostra Aetate discussion for more context.

Every Pope since Vatican II has operated in-line with Nostra Aetate, which affirms that Muslims worship the God of Abraham. It also affirms that other pagan religions also worship God, although with imperfections and misunderstandings. The joint prayer with Muslims (in mosques), Buddhists, and other religions, as well as the frequent assertions that these traditions have "precious spiritual treasures", publicly and consistently demonstrates this orientation.

It's hermeneutical interfaith practice, consistent with what the early fathers engaged in since the genesis of the early church.

Now, without linking stuff, lay out what I quoted from what you said, and try your very best to push that the Holy Spirit is complicit in apostasy by electing the Popes you claim are whatever you claim they are.

Tell us all what you know that the Holy Trinity doesn't, because if you're right, we should probably inform the Vatican State of your findings.

 

[Preacher ✝]

this made me laugh more than it should have

 

[Preacher ✝]

Chicago Pope memes, lets go.






How long til ketchup on hotdogs is declared a sin?

 

[Ring of Basilius]

Remember Vance hasn’t even baptized his own children to keep his Pagan wife happy

That's great. Religion is an adult decision and should not be forced on children.