Lolcow KingCobraJFS / Josh Saunders - Amateur musician, YouTube Streamer, wandmaker, and self-proclaimed "sexy goth badboy". Perpetually circling the drain.

[Ultrapenguin]

I don't know why people always say this shit.

Bless their innocence, they obviously haven't experienced the system enough to realize just how bad someone has to get before anyone steps in.

This is the United States, if you want to be a fuck up that's your god given right. And TBH if the government did start intervening with someone like Josh, that would be a little concerning; I'm willing to bet there are quite a few Cobra watchers not living lives that much better than he is.

 

[Bloooo]

God, I hope Cobes gets rid of NAL one way or another. It'd do him a lot of good.

 

[FKA Joshua Roberts]

Wa

He isn't legally incompetent. He's an adult. He's a fucked up one but if he wants to do duster and drink all day the state can't step in and imprison him. I don't know why people always say this shit.

He isn't Daniel Larson who is seriously non compos mentis.

I was referring to a group home situation. Unfortunately Clint cannot force him into one as of now, but, as Josh isn't legally competent if he got a diagnosis from a proper doctor he could force him into it. It won't happen because Clint is a psychopath but it SHOULD

 

[Grim_Autismo]

This part of the wiki needs to be edited. This really isn't an answer more of an opinion the real answer is Clint can't put him in a group home against his will it's not legal. Josh would literally rather die then agree to going to one.
View attachment 6400198

Also, other than the bogwitch, Josh doesn't live a terrible life. He can get his own food, pays bills, and does okay. He's not a total retard. He drinks and does crazy bullshit for our amusement. It's not great, but you can live under a bridge eating dirt, and the government will still leave you be. The right to self-determination is a serious one, and for good reason. Who here wants the government up its ass telling them what they can do, how they can live their life? Bogwitch needs to get btfo, but other than that, really, who cares? Let him make his weird food combos, music, and wands.

The worst they'd do is get him a caseworker or a home health aid that would help him stay where he is and help him do the day-to-day; they're not going to take away his ability to make his own decisions. People on the spectrum don't need to be warehoused, he's not that bad off. Even Chrischan was allowed to run free. He's nowhere near Chrischan levels.

 

[FKA Joshua Roberts]

Also, other than the bogwitch, Josh doesn't live a terrible life. He can get his own food, pays bills, and does okay. He's not a total retard. He drinks and does crazy bullshit for our amusement. It's not great, but you can live under a bridge eating dirt, and the government will still leave you be. The right to self-determination is a serious one, and for good reason. Who here wants the government up its ass telling them what they can do, how they can live their life? Bogwitch needs to get btfo, but other than that, really, who cares? Let him make his weird food combos, music, and wands.

The worst they'd do is get him a caseworker or a home health aid that would help him stay where he is and help him do the day-to-day; they're not going to take away his ability to make his own decisions. People on the spectrum don't need to be warehoused, he's not that bad off. Even Chrischan was allowed to run free. He's nowhere near Chrischan levels.

He is capable of working and refuses to, he should not be on government assistance. He is capable of taking care of himself but refuses to and uses undiagnosed ODD as an excuse to not take care of himself. He isn't nearly as retarded as he makes it out to be, he knew his buddypals would turn on him over not breaking it off on NAL and still tried to pull a fast one. The boy is clearly just barely under the average IQ. He needs help and protection from sickos like NAL and Chris, he knows they aren't good for him but he isn't dumb enough to leave money on the table. He needs someone to take control of outside influences and he will be fine but unfortunately his sicko father won't do it because he wants Jord dead.

 

[Grim_Autismo]

He is capable of working and refuses to, he should not be on government assistance. He is capable of taking care of himself but refuses to and uses undiagnosed ODD as an excuse to not take care of himself. He isn't nearly as retarded as he makes it out to be, he knew his buddypals would turn on him over not breaking it off on NAL and still tried to pull a fast one. The boy is clearly just barely under the average IQ. He needs help and protection from sickos like NAL and Chris, he knows they aren't good for him but he isn't dumb enough to leave money on the table. He needs someone to take control of outside influences and he will be fine but unfortunately his sicko father won't do it because he wants Jord dead.

Just because he's sub-normal IQ doesn't make him group home material, bud. People between 70-90 are borderline retarded and still lead full, happy lives, it doesn't give you the right to put them in a group home. If other retards out here decide to subsidize his life in exchange for him entertaining them, that's their business. Even full-on retards have the right to marry, vote and more unless a court has specifically barred them from doing so. I'm serious. I don't think you understand how hard it is to deprive someone of their liberty and how much you should cherish that, you don't want someone just to come along and say, that fellow looks a bit autistic, into the home you go! His dad can't just stick him in a home because he's got a 70-90 IQ and an Asperger's diagnosis. The state would just assign him a caseworker and encourage him to be more independent and go from there. They don't just take away your freedom for being a loser.

Because that would be pretty fucked.

Josh could do with a caseworker of some kind to help him sort his shit. He has executive dysfunction, emotional regulation issues, and some other shit going on. He could work a job, at least part-time. It wouldn't necessarily take away his tugboat if he worked part-time. Independence can be difficult for people to achieve, but he's doing pretty good for someone in his situation. He's pretty social, and he goes out and has hobbies, such as they are. You might think he's bottom of the barrel, but he is doing pretty well all things considered. If he wasn't depending on weird parasocial bogwitches for sex, that would be better, but hey, it is what it is. These situations are complex; we only see what we see and don't know what we don't. But it's not like this is The Square Hut or anything. He's not being caned with broken glass bottles for money. He's just a loser guy living a loser life. People watch it because they think it's funny, or it makes them feel better about themselves, a combination of the two, or worse, because they think they can help lol.

 

[AnOminous]

Unfortunately Clint cannot force him into one as of now, but, as Josh isn't legally competent if he got a diagnosis from a proper doctor he could force him into it.

It doesn't meet the legal standard. That just isn't how it works. He has to be an imminent danger to himself or others, in other words if they don't lock him up right now someone gets killed or seriously fucked up. That you don't approve of his personal life choices or he's fucking stupid does not mean the state can just lock him up indefinitely.

 

[FKA Joshua Roberts]

It doesn't meet the legal standard. That just isn't how it works. He has to be an imminent danger to himself or others, in other words if they don't lock him up right now someone gets killed or seriously fucked up. That you don't approve of his personal life choices or he's fucking stupid does not mean the state can just lock him up indefinitely.

He put a gun in his mouth bud, that seals it. I didn't state it but that should be implied currently. He IS a danger to himself and/or others

 

[Pascal's Wagie]

Josh isn't mentally competent though, does he legally have a choice? Not a lawyer so I have no fucking clue but one would assume someone with his "disability"(which he vastly overexaggerates) couldn't make a legal decision for himself

Despite what some people in this thread may assume, there is a difference between being incompetent in a legal sense and simply being stupid. The kind of incompetence a judge cares about rises not from mere stupidity, but from fundamental inability to understand and make decisions. Cobra can make decisions for himself, even if plenty of his previous decisions have been fairly stupid. A court won't and shouldn't strip away Cobra's rights on the (reasonable) conjecture that any and all of his future choices will be plagued with a similar degree of stupidity.

The closest Cobes has come to being subject to anything involuntary was when he said "I'm going to shoot myself" and then proceeded to place an allegedly loaded shotgun under his chin. NAL obviously doesn't care about Cobra to have done anything about that, but if the cops were anywhere in the middle of that they would've been well within their authority to place Cobra under an emergency detention and have him checked out at the ER. Thankfully Cobra didn't give Jessica and her paypig what they probably wanted (another Facebook/Instagram livestream of someone splattering their thinkpaste all over eggshell-white interior walls).

But now Josh with not-too-much booze in his system nor NAL in his trailer seems much less suicidal, so the time for that has passed and hopefully the need never rises again.

 

[Star Spangled Bogger]

The wiki should have an FAQ for the group home question, with a link to is Clint a bad dad question, that links back to the group home question. That should sufficiently answer both questions.

 

[Pascal's Wagie]

The wiki should have an FAQ for the group home question, with a link to is Clint a bad dad question, that links back to the group home question. That should sufficiently answer both questions.

The Double Down wiki page should get slotted somewhere in there, too.

 

[AnOminous]

He put a gun in his mouth bud, that seals it. I didn't state it but that should be implied currently. He IS a danger to himself and/or others

That'll get you a 72 hour hold. Generally unless you still admit you're planning on killing yourself, you then get let go.

If they think he should be held longer, he gets a hearing to challenge that, where it will be granted and he will be released. I don't know what planet you think we're on where everyone who threatens suicide is immediately locked up forever with no due process, but that isn't where we're living. That's not the law. That's not how it works.

 

[FKA Joshua Roberts]

That'll get you a 72 hour hold. Generally unless you still admit you're planning on killing yourself, you then get let go.

If they think he should be held longer, he gets a hearing to challenge that, where it will be granted and he will be released. I don't know what planet you think we're on where everyone who threatens suicide is immediately locked up forever with no due process, but that isn't where we're living. That's not the law. That's not how it works.

False, if he chooses to go to trial he has to prove competence which means a psych tech has to say he is competent and he has to agree to a plan which would include attending some form of therapy for months or years afterward even if he is found competent. I have been in this system as my thread here shows. He would not simply be let go into the wild which would be a much better result than the current situation he is in

Despite what some people in this thread may assume, there is a difference between being incompetent in a legal sense and simply being stupid. The kind of incompetence a judge cares about rises not from mere stupidity, but from fundamental inability to understand and make decisions. Cobra can make decisions for himself, even if plenty of his previous decisions have been fairly stupid. A court won't and shouldn't strip away Cobra's rights on the (reasonable) conjecture that any and all of his future choices will be plagued with a similar degree of stupidity.

The closest Cobes has come to being subject to anything involuntary was when he said "I'm going to shoot myself" and then proceeded to place an allegedly loaded shotgun under his chin. NAL obviously doesn't care about Cobra to have done anything about that, but if the cops were anywhere in the middle of that they would've been well within their authority to place Cobra under an emergency detention and have him checked out at the ER. Thankfully Cobra didn't give Jessica and her paypig what they probably wanted (another Facebook/Instagram livestream of someone splattering their thinkpaste all over eggshell-white interior walls).

But now Josh with not-too-much booze in his system nor NAL in his trailer seems much less suicidal, so the time for that has passed and hopefully the need never rises again.

I will repeat myself, he threatened to kill himself on stream. He is clearly not competent. He needs some form of mental help and at least a responsible adult in his life like a case worker. I don't dislike Cobes, I think he exaggerates his condition for sympathy but I get it but I don't dislike him, but I feel he needs far more help than he is getting and his current situation will not end well. He has been consistently going downhill and he is now to a point in which I feel he is not legally competent to take care of himself due to the extreme abuse he has undergone. He is the victim here, but he needs help. Ultimately, nothing will happen because Clint doesn't care about his son and none of us can get him forced into help as we don't live near him

 

[Star Spangled Bogger]

The Double Down wiki page should get slotted somewhere in there, too.

The double down page should link back to itself.

 

[AnOminous]

False, if he chooses to go to trial he has to prove competence which means a psych tech has to say he is competent and he has to agree to a plan which would include attending some form of therapy for months or years afterward even if he is found competent.

Completely fucking wrong. When you have no clue what you're talking about you should not pretend to speak authoritatively.

First, commitment is a civil process, not a criminal process. It is not a trial, and the standards for competence to stand criminal trial and the standards for civil commitment are completely different. To be incompetent to stand trial you have to not even be able to understand what you're on trial for and communicate with your lawyer.

This is the actual Wyoming law and it says what I said, not whatever crackpot nonsense you're saying.

25-10-109. Emergency detention.

(a) A person may be detained when:

(i) A law enforcement officer or examiner has reasonable cause to believe a person is mentally ill pursuant to W.S. 25-10-101;

(ii) A court has entered an ex parte order for immediate detention of a person pursuant to W.S. 25-10-110.1(h);

(iii) A hospital revokes convalescent status release of a person pursuant to W.S. 25-10-127(b) based on a previous or current determination of mental illness.

(b) Immediately after detaining the person, the officer shall contact an examiner. A preliminary examination of the person shall be conducted by an examiner within twenty-four (24) hours after the detention. If a preliminary examination is not conducted within twenty-four (24) hours the detained person shall be released. If the person is detained following the preliminary examination, an examiner shall reexamine the person not less than every forty-eight (48) hours until the hearing under subsections (h) through (k) of this section. If the examiner giving the preliminary examination, or any reexamination as required by this subsection, finds that the person:

(i) Is not mentally ill, the person shall be released immediately;

(ii) Was mentally ill, but is no longer dangerous to himself or others, the examiner shall, with patient consent, arrange follow up mental health care and the person shall be released immediately; or

(iii) Is mentally ill, the person may be detained for seventy-two (72) hours excluding Saturdays, Sundays and legal holidays.

(c) No person shall be detained for more than seventy-two (72) hours, excluding Saturdays, Sundays and legal holidays, without a hearing under subsections (h) through (k) of this section.

(d) A person taken into custody under this section may be detained in a hospital or other care setting which is appropriate under the circumstances and which complies with subsection (n) of this section. The person shall not be detained in a nonmedical facility used for detention of persons charged with or convicted of penal offenses except in extreme emergency or if there are no other reasonable alternatives. The law enforcement officer or examiner who detained the person shall immediately notify the person responsible for the care and custody of the detained person, if known, of the time and place of detention.

(e) The law enforcement officer or examiner who initially detained the person shall make a written statement of the facts of the emergency detention. A copy of the statement shall be given to the detained person, his parent or guardian, to any attorney representing the person, to the county attorney in the county where the person is detained, to any gatekeeper designated by the department and to any subsequent examiner.

(f) When a person is detained under emergency circumstances, treatment may be given during the emergency detention period if the person voluntarily and knowingly consents. The parent or guardian of a minor or incompetent person may consent to treatment. If the parent or guardian of a minor patient does not consent to treatment, a petition may be filed under the Child Protection Act. Treatment may be given without the consent of the detained person or his parent or guardian when treatment is limited to diagnosis or evaluation or when treatment is necessary to prevent immediate and serious physical harm to the person or others. Prior to treatment, the person shall be fully advised of the scope of treatment, and a report of the treatment shall be provided to the county attorney, to any gatekeeper designated by the department and shall be filed with the court if continued detention is sought, or if directed outpatient commitment or involuntary hospitalization proceedings are commenced. An examiner or a physician who provides treatment in good faith pursuant to this subsection shall be immune from civil liability for the treatment except there shall be no immunity from liability for negligent acts or deliberate misconduct.

(g) At the time of emergency detention the person shall be informed orally and in writing of his right to contact his family and an attorney, of his right to appointed counsel if he is indigent, of his right to remain silent and that his statements may be used as a basis for continued detention, directed outpatient commitment or involuntary hospitalization.

(h) When a person is detained in emergency detention and continued detention is sought, or an application for directed outpatient commitment or involuntary hospitalization is filed by the county attorney, the court shall appoint an attorney to represent the detained person unless he has his own attorney. The court shall conduct a hearing within seventy-two (72) hours, excluding Saturdays, Sundays and legal holidays, of the initial detention to determine whether continued detention is required pending directed outpatient commitment or involuntary hospitalization proceedings. The county attorney of the county where the application is filed shall appear on behalf of the state at the hearing. Any gatekeeper designated by the department pursuant to W.S. 25-10-112(g) shall appear at the hearing and provide testimony concerning continued detention and, if applicable, the issues outlined in subsection (m) of this section. Notice of the preliminary hearing shall be given to the county attorney, any gatekeeper designated by the department, the detained person and his parent, guardian and attorney. The court may delay the hearing only at the request of the detained person or his parent, guardian or his attorney. The hearing for continued detention may be waived at the request of the detained person or the detained person's parent, guardian or attorney. If a hearing for continued detention has been waived, the court may immediately conduct the directed outpatient commitment or involuntary hospitalization hearing.

(j) At the hearing the court shall advise the detained person and his parent, guardian or attorney of the contents of the written statement of emergency detention required in subsection (e) of this section and the application for directed outpatient commitment or involuntary hospitalization.

(k) The standard of proof in an emergency detention hearing shall be by a preponderance of the evidence. If the court finds at an emergency detention hearing that:

(i) The person is not mentally ill, the court shall order the person released;

(ii) The person is mentally ill and has applied for and received voluntary admission, the court may dismiss the proceedings; or

(iii) The person is mentally ill, it shall order continued detention of the person for not more than ten (10) days. The court may extend the detention period at the request of the proposed patient or his attorney.

(m) If the court finds the person is mentally ill pursuant to paragraph (k)(iii) of this section, the court shall make findings as to the person's competence to make informed choices regarding treatment and the person's need for prescribed psychotropic medication. If the court finds the person incompetent to make an informed decision, the court may order the administration of prescribed psychotropic medication for the period of the emergency detention for restabilization of the person's mental health.

(n) Treatment provided as a result of an emergency or continued detention pursuant to this section shall be provided in the least restrictive and most therapeutic setting available with consideration given to requests of the detained person, his parent, guardian or attorney, and recommendations of any gatekeeper. Treatment may include the treatment options outlined in W.S. 25-10-110.1(d).

The medical authorities do not decide, beyond the initial 72 hour period. A court does. Unless the person remains voluntarily, they get to challenge it, and if they're even remotely coherent and not posing an IMMINENT menace to themselves or others, they will be released.

If they aren't sure, they have another ten days and then must reevaluate or institute formal long-term commitment proceedings and the standards are exceedingly high for that.

Anyone who has ever dealt with such proceedings knows they do not work how you are saying. There are people far, far worse off than Cobes who do not get committed, even after actual suicide attempts and not just the threat.

That said if Clint isn't an idiot he'll figure out how to tard wrangle Cobes into NOT having a gun. He shouldn't have one. And he probably should have been taken in on a 72 hour hold at the least.

 

[Kammerjäger]

I know all of Joshi's suffering is self inflicted but i still hope the boy gets better.
What non sufficient vagina does to a motherdiddler never has been more true, than here. I'm still quite new to this, did he ever state why he wouldn't just visit a lady of the night to end his dryspell? Couldn't be much worse than dealing with NAL.

 

[FKA Joshua Roberts]

Since AnOnimous is too much of a cow to allow replies let me just state that being detained for 72 hours is not voluntary, you are basing your argument on him being admitted voluntarily which the boy would never allow. Thus it would go to probate court where he would be held incompetent until properly medicated. I have navigated the system in MI and OH and can assure you just because the law says one thing does not mean it will be upheld how you think. Doctors can hold you for up to 90 days if you refuse treatment. Probate courts usually do not operate like criminal courts, the threshold for proof is much lower and a doctor's recommendation is basically enough evidence to hold you and if you think any doctor would say Cobes is good without meds and therapy you are kidding yourself. Mon amore, look in the mirror

 

[FinnSven]

Since AnOnimous is too much of a cow to allow replies let me just state that being detained for 72 hours is not voluntary, you are basing your argument on him being admitted voluntarily which the boy would never allow. Thus it would go to probate court where he would be held incompetent until properly medicated. I have navigated the system in MI and OH and can assure you just because the law says one thing does not mean it will be upheld how you think. Doctors can hold you for up to 90 days if you refuse treatment,

Highlight what you want to quote from AnOnimous’s post and click on the little quote option which comes up.

You can then insert the quoted selection.

That said if Clint isn't an idiot he'll figure out how to tard wrangle Cobes into NOT having a gun. He shouldn't have one. And he probably should have been taken in on a 72 hour hold at the least.

Like so.

Or toggle BB code and manually type out the quotation tags.

 

[anliteralidiot]

False, if he chooses to go to trial he has to prove competence which means a psych tech has to say he is competent and he has to agree to a plan which would include attending some form of therapy for months or years afterward even if he is found competent

Bro, if you're arguing with actual law man, and double posting maybe you need the group home.

 

[FKA Joshua Roberts]

Bro, if you're arguing with actual law man, and double posting maybe you need the group home.

Where did i double post to him? I have dealt with said laws and have an attorney myself so I actually know how this shit works. Hell, Londo/Strasse tried to make me a cow over it. The law reads one way but until you have operated under it you don't understand it. Yes, asylums are gone but it is insanely easy to be deemed incompetent. Refusing meds, as Cobes would most likely do, will mark you as incompetent, period. There is no questioning it. The legal system does not work fast so even if he had a case, which he wouldn't, he would be held until the case is finished which can take up to a month