Language Learning / Bilingual / Polyglot Thread

I took American Sign Language in high school. I remember the usual none of it that most people keep of their high school language but it was good exercise in thinking in different ways, trying to parse gesture / expression language with structure roots in French.

Since then I've osmosed some idiot Japanese from watching stupid toy commercial shows for years. I don't know the word for bank but I know superdimension explosion.
 
I took American Sign Language in high school. I remember the usual none of it that most people keep of their high school language but it was good exercise in thinking in different ways, trying to parse gesture / expression language with structure roots in French.

Since then I've osmosed some idiot Japanese from watching stupid toy commercial shows for years. I don't know the word for bank but I know superdimension explosion.
I have some question about american sign language, is it one word=one sign, or one letter= one sign?
 
I have some question about american sign language, is it one word=one sign, or one letter= one sign?
There's finger spelling. That's where you sign out the letters one at a time with finger shapes. That's mostly used for proper names and stuff.

Then the gestures are usually one word=one sign (ish). Like the sign for the color "blue" is a single gesture. But if you want to modify it to a light blue or a dark blue you breath out lightly or strongly while you do it, where the breath functions as the modifier, rather than a sign meaning "light" then a sign meaning "blue".
Sometimes a sign might be more than one word in English, but usually functions as a single concept like how "What's up?" is a single gesture using both hands with the facial modifier indicating an open question, instead of "what" "is" "up".

In addition to ASL there's also "Signed Exact English" where you just sign word for word spoken English.

As far as I understand as-of twenty years ago deaf people often used something of a pidgin of both for day-to-day communications depending on what was common in the local community.
 
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I think people tend to go about learning language wrong. Formal classes are alright, but you can learn yourself using free online tools (there are a lot of conversational websites dedicated to mutual learning between participants and is far more helpful than just going over vocab words all day.) Or you can go the route of the US state department and just use Rosetta Stone. A cousin of mine (who was already fluent in English and Spanish) would be able to get around in about 2 months without much trouble after crunching that. They learned Arabic, Japanese, and French that way I think.
 
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I think people tend to go about learning language wrong. Formal classes are alright, but you can learn yourself using free online tools (there are a lot of conversational websites dedicated to mutual learning between participants and is far more helpful than just going over vocab words all day.) Or you can go the route of the US state department and just use Rosetta Stone. A cousin of mine (who was already fluent in English and Spanish) would be able to get around in about 2 months without much trouble after crunching that. They learned Arabic, Japanese, and French that way I think.
DO NOT USE ROSETTA STONE!
It is not effective for learning languages! Duolingo, a free program, is miles above that horrid monster. I have personally tried rosetta stone, and I found it stupid. Whenever I tried to speak one thing it taught me with a native speaker, I just blanked out, with rosetta stone it just doesn't get in your head.(I did portuguese and tagalong)
Also, there are numerous articles explaining how idiotic it is.

One of the many articles:
https://language101.com/reviews/rosetta-stone/
 
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DO NOT USE ROSETTA STONE!
It is not effective for learning languages! Duolingo, a free program, is miles above that horrid monster. I have personally tried rosetta stone, and I found it stupid. Whenever I tried to speak one thing it taught me with a native speaker, I just blanked out, with rosetta stone it just doesn't get in your head.(I did portuguese and tagalong)
Also, there are numerous articles explaining how idiotic it is.

One of the many articles:
https://language101.com/reviews/rosetta-stone/

I literally just said my cousin learned several languages utilizing nothing but Rosetta Stone for the state department within just a few months. Enough to easily get by on day to day activities. It's the program they used for their foreign officers. Maybe Rosetta Stone just wasn't for you, like many people not everyone learns language the exact same way. Thats okay. Being immersed in the language on a day to day eventually made her fluent. Also that link you gave me is an advertisement for another program and a nickpick of their shoddy marketing campaign.
 
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I literally just said my cousin learned several languages utilizing nothing but Rosetta Stone for the state department within just a few months. Enough to easily get by on day to day activities. It's the program they used for their foreign officers. Maybe Rosetta Stone just wasn't for you, like many people not everyone learns language the exact same way. Thats okay. Being immersed in the language on a day to day eventually made her fluent. Also that link you gave me is an advertisement for another program and a nickpick of their shoddy marketing campaign.
Ignore the marketing campaign part, and they have great criticisms against it. Yes, its obvious that they want them to use their website, but I have to agree with some of the points they made. Most of the people I've talked with that use rosetta stone absolutely despise it.
 
When I'm not wasting time here or attempting to get some work done, my primary occupation is studying languages. I'm currently trying to improve my French skills while also learning Welsh and Breton (I also study Italian with my wife sometimes). Out of curiosity - what languages does everyone here speak?

In a similar vein, what resources do you use for learning? I'm a pretty devoted user of Duolingo and Memrise.

(Mods: I know that there have already been two threads about this, but I figured posting a new one was better than necroing either of those. If I've misjudged, I apologize.)
 
I would like to learn spanish. I always liked how it sounded, and i'd be able to understand the lyrics in a song better. Also where I live there are a lot of mexican families, so it'd be nice to have a conversation with them.
 
I like languages along with their histories, differences, peculiarities and how they work, especially ancient ones like Latin, Greek and (((Hebrew))) or constructed ones like Esperanto, Pandunia and Elvish.

The topic I am currently into is Proto-Indo-European.

English is very simple compared to other languages in Europe. Neither does it use practical tools like grammatical case, nor does it have funny quirks like gendered nouns and also verbs do not show many forms.
 
I'm huge into linguistic shit even if I don't speak that many myself.
Yeah, English has rather simple grammar, it has more in common with Chinese grammar than it does with many European languages. The fucked up unusual part that's hard to foreigners and even native speakers is the spelling.
 
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Not a linguist but I read way too much on languages, AMA.
English has simple morphology (cases and the ways words are put together), but the syntax is really complex, and there are a lot of registers because half of our words come from Latin and a decent amount from Greek too. I would hesitate to say that makes the whole language any more different than others in terms of simplicity. Languages that are simple on one area tend to be very complex in others, and vice versa.

Here are some fun facts about PIE (proto-indo-european):
It was spoken originally around the plains of Ukraine, and it had a really complex (and unstable set of consonants). Simplified, it had p b and bh, for instance. Because there's a voiced aspirate series (bh) you would similarly expect an unvoiced aspirate series (ph), which didn't exist. So the system collapsed in the various languages into a more stable form, leading to a lot of the differences between, say, greek, german, latin, sanskrit, etc, depending on how they stabilized the system. Most of the ones in europe merged together consonant sounds. In India though, they added the missing ph series to stabilize it.
PIE also only had one vowel (e), which changed forms depending on the grammar (this is called ablaut). This is similar to how English uses sing, sang, sung for tenses, though this developed differently and isn't related to the PIE ablaut. In old english, there were markers that indicated tone (like how we use -ed for past tense now); these markers were vowels, that the vowels before them then changed to mimic. For instance, if sing is the current tense, then singu → sungu would be the past tense. Over time the final vowel got dropped off (this is what happened to mess up English spelling and lead to the "magic e"— the 'e' in words like 'knife' was originally pronounced, but people got lazy and dropped it), and all that you're left with is sing vs sung, which speakers just memorize or reanalyze as the new tense. This isn't the exact specific example that happened in English (it was much more complex), but the idea stands.
Then we get into fun with vowel lengths: English used to have long (literally pronounced twice as long) and short vowels. In 'closed' syllables like "night" (the gh used to be pronounced like the german "ch" in "bach"), the vowel was short. When the 'gh' stopped being pronounced, it first lengthened the vowel. Long vowels then become dipthongs— in this case 'ai', which is why "night" is pronounced like "nait" instead of "nit".
The long-short distinction is another reason english spelling is so bad. words like "knife" had a long vowel, hence "ai" pronounciation, whereas other words like "kit" had a short vowel that didn't change (much). But when English spelling was being standardized, they didn't mark whether or not vowels were short or long and wrote them all the same, so now you just have to know whether a word has a short or long vowel.

tl;dr I need a better hobby because I waste way too much of my life on learning useless things
 
The fucked up unusual part that's hard to foreigners and even native speakers is the spelling.

Most of that was because of The Great vowel shift, a bunch of mush mouthed southerners couldn't talk properly so they just ignored the letters, you get more accurate pronunciations of English in Scotland.

And some more were because some cunts just decided to ditch 6 letters from the alphabet to make their printing presses easier to import.

and then you get stuff that is totally arbitrary like the silent B in debt, It was added so the word looked more Latin, no-one ever used to pronounce the 'b' it used to be spelled dett similar to the french dette (debt).
 
Supposedly colonel English sounded like deep south English and older Charlestonian is apparently a great example. Charlestonian is often non-rhotic (i.e. they don't pronounce syllable-end "r"s) and there's Canadian raising (even today) so "about" is rendered "aboat". I met a 95-year-old who had lived in the deep south her whole life and she said things like "mah fathuh", "choose-dee" (instead of Tuesday), basically like Strom Thurmond.
 
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and then you get stuff that is totally arbitrary like the silent B in debt, It was added so the word looked more Latin, no-one ever used to pronounce the 'b' it used to be spelled dett similar to the french dette (debt).
It was never pronounced in English, but it derived from Latin dēbitum, so at one point it was definitely there.
 
Most of that was because of The Great vowel shift, a bunch of mush mouthed southerners couldn't talk properly so they just ignored the letters, you get more accurate pronunciations of English in Scotland.

And some more were because some cunts just decided to ditch 6 letters from the alphabet to make their printing presses easier to import.

and then you get stuff that is totally arbitrary like the silent B in debt, It was added so the word looked more Latin, no-one ever used to pronounce the 'b' it used to be spelled dett similar to the french dette (debt).
I've seen people complaining that this guy isn't a good example of Scots, because he's a native English speaker who learned Scots as an adult.

Supposedly colonel English sounded like deep south English and older Charlestonian is apparently a great example. Charlestonian is often non-rhotic (i.e. they don't pronounce syllable-end "r"s) and there's Canadian raising (even today) so "about" is rendered "aboat". I met a 95-year-old who had lived in the deep south her whole life and she said things like "mah fathuh", "choose-dee" (instead of Tuesday), basically like Strom Thurmond.
One of my professors is from Virginia and says 'Tues-dee' and I find it incredibly annoying. Not as annoying as my other professor from Virginia who says 'rezources' and 'abzborbed', though.

On the topic of non-rhoticism, it's interesting to me how American English speakers who are rhotic will drop r's in certain words, like the middle of the word r's in 'surprise', 'governor', and 'reservoir'. (Here's a paper about it if you're interested).
 
On topic of non-rhoticism, it's interesting to me how American English speakers who are rhotic will drop r's in certain words, like the middle of the word r's in 'surprise', 'governor', and 'reservoir'. (Here's a paper about it if you're interested).

I do that, it's call "r-dissimilation" one of my most frequently misspelled words is "surprise" which I often misspell as "suprise".
 
The most interesting thing I find about Language is how its the operating system of the mind. When you "think", you think in the language you learned as a child. Even when you speak another language, your brain automatically translates the foreign tongue you are speaking into the base language you learned as a baby. Which often leads to hilarious misinterpretations incidentally. More fun, deaf people who learn sign language think in sign language.

The really scary shit happens in studies done on feral children, who never learned a language at all. they were literally high functioning monkeys, completely incapable of rational thoughts or control over their needs and emotions. Worse, how our brains define concepts that have no tangible real world existence is highly dependent on linguistic meaning. There are elements of Asian mysticism that have no good translation into english as an example, while African languages have no translation for concepts like "Time" or "Future". Such linguistic gaps may very well lead into radical shifts in how our minds view the world and our culture develops.
 
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