EU Le Gilets Jaune protests thread - Do you hear the people sing? Singing the songs of angry men?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46233560

One protester has died and dozens were injured as almost a quarter of a million people took to the streets of France, angry at rising fuel prices.

The female protester who died was struck after a driver surrounded by demonstrators panicked and accelerated.

The "yellow vests", so-called after the high-visibility jackets they are required to carry in their cars, blocked motorways and roundabouts.

They accuse President Emmanuel Macron of abandoning "the little people".

Mr Macron has not so far commented on the protests, some of which have seen demonstrators call for him to resign.

But he admitted earlier in the week that he had not "really managed to reconcile the French people with their leaders".

Nonetheless, he accused his political opponents of hijacking the movement in order to block his reform programme.

What has happened so far?
Some 244,000 people took part in protests across France, the interior ministry said in its latest update.

It said 106 people were injured during the day, five seriously, with 52 people arrested.

Most of the protests have been taking place without incident although several of the injuries came when drivers tried to force their way through protesters.

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Image copyrightREUTERS
Image captionA driver forces a car through a group of protesters in Donges, western France
Chantal Mazet, 63, was killed in the south-eastern Savoy region when a driver who was taking her daughter to hospital panicked at being blocked by about 50 demonstrators, who were striking the roof of her vehicle, and drove into them.

The driver has been taken into police custody in a state of shock.

In Paris protesters approaching the Élysée Palace, the president's official residence, were repelled with tear gas.

Why are drivers on the warpath?
The price of diesel, the most commonly used fuel in French cars, has risen by around 23% over the past 12 months to an average of €1.51 (£1.32; $1.71) per litre, its highest point since the early 2000s, AFP news agency reports.

World oil prices did rise before falling back again but the Macron government raised its hydrocarbon tax this year by 7.6 cents per litre on diesel and 3.9 cents on petrol, as part of a campaign for cleaner cars and fuel.

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Image copyrightEPA
Image captionTear gas was used to disperse protesters in Paris
The decision to impose a further increase of 6.5 cents on diesel and 2.9 cents on petrol on 1 January 2019 was seen as the final straw.

Speaking on Wednesday, the president blamed world oil prices for three-quarters of the price rise. He also said more tax on fossil fuels was needed to fund renewable energy investments.

How big is the movement?
It has broad support. Nearly three-quarters of respondents to a poll by the Elabe institute backed the Yellow Vests and 70% wanted the government to reverse the fuel tax hikes.

More than half of French people who voted for Mr Macron support the protests, Elabe's Vincent Thibault told AFP.

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Image copyrightREUTERS
Image captionPolice attend as protesters block a motorway in Antibes
"The expectations and discontent over spending power are fairly broad, it's not just something that concerns rural France or the lower classes," he said.

The BBC's Lucy Williamson in Paris says the movement has grown via social media into a broad and public criticism of Mr Macron's economic policies.

Are opposition politicians involved?
They have certainly tried to tap into it. Far-right leader Marine Le Pen, who was defeated by Mr Macron in the second round of the presidential election, has been encouraging it on Twitter.

She said: "The government shouldn't be afraid of French people who come to express their revolt and do it in a peaceful fashion."

Image Copyright @MLP_officiel@MLP_OFFICIEL
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Laurent Wauquiez, leader of the centre-right Republicans, called on the Macron government to scrap the next planned increase in carbon tax on fossil fuels in January to offset rising vehicle fuel prices.

Mr Castaner has described Saturday's action as a "political protest with the Republicans behind it".

Olivier Faure, leader of the left-wing Socialist Party said the movement - which has no single leader and is not linked to any trade union - had been "born outside political parties".

"People want politicians to listen to them and respond. Their demand is to have purchasing power and financial justice," he said.

Image Copyright @faureolivier@FAUREOLIVIER
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Is there any room for compromise?
On Wednesday, the government announced action to help poor families pay their energy and transport bills.

Prime Minister Edouard Philippe announced that 5.6 million households would receive energy subsidies. Currently 3.6 million receive them.

A state scrappage bonus on polluting vehicles would also be doubled for France's poorest families, he said, and fuel tax credits would be brought in for people who depend on their cars for work.

Protesters have mocked the president relentlessly as "Micron" or "Macaron" (Macaroon) or simply Manu, the short form of Emmanuel, which he famously scolded a student for using.

Image Copyright @BBCWorld@BBCWORLD
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To be honest, I don't blame the driver at all.
 
Taking bets now! Will France's leader at the end of the year be:

1. Macron
2.A Bonaparte
or 3. A Bourbon?

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if there was a violent revolution in France and a Bonapartist ended up taking control. I was talking to a couple of French aviators on exercise a couple of months ago and they made it pretty clear that the brass were getting pissed off with Macron's antics. (I believe one of the aviators is an adjutant to the French ATF Commander there during the exercise but I could be wrong)
 
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A) is possible, and of these options, only that will likely come to pass. C) is completely impossible, for so many reasons that I don't care to elaborate on them. B) is very unlikely, bordering on impossible. This is France we're talking about, not some third-world shithole dictatorship.
How is it impossible? Because France is a first-world country suddenly the military doesn't give a shit and will roll over their citizenry?
That's quite backwards from how it usually is- third-world country armies usually roll over dissidence with ill-regard for the people. Meanwhile in the first-world it's very hit-or-miss if they would even dare march on their own people. It's a whole different mindset in the West.

And along with that reasoning, if some of the fucking police are standing down, then who knows what the army would do?
Yes, not all the police are standing down, but is the army willing to do what it takes to stop all this?
More than 80% of France hates his guts already- it's not a longshot to think the military likes him all that much too. It's why I can see them saying "fuck this" and telling Macron to go fuck himself with a green vest.
 
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You'd think after the third one they'd get the idea that the French will readily violently overthrow any government that gets too big for it's britches.

But you'd also think that after the first time Europe was invaded en masse by muslims and how awful that was, that people would've learned that some religions and cultures have irreconcilable differences and those differences should be kept in mind when deciding whether or not to let people into your country.

Why nobody seems to take the whole "those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it" concept seriously, I don't know. Hubris, maybe.
Condemned to repeat it. People always fuck up that quote when the original is even more vicious in intent.
 
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How is it impossible? Because France is a first-world country suddenly the military doesn't give a shit and will roll over their citizenry?
That's quite backwards from how it usually is- third-world country armies usually roll over dissidence with ill-regard for the people. Meanwhile in the first-world it's very hit-or-miss if they would even dare march on their own people. It's a whole different mindset in the West.

And along with that reasoning, if some of the fucking police are standing down, then who knows what the army would do?
Yes, not all the police are standing down, but is the army willing to do what it takes to stop all this?
More than 80% of France hates his guts already- it's not a longshot to think the military likes him too. It's why I can see them saying "fuck this" and telling Macron to go fuck himself with a green vest.
lol, do the Frogs even have a military anymore? I'm pretty sure the pulled the same shit as the rest of Europe after the Wall fell and said "The US will take care of it." How do you think they have the welfare money for so many muds? Then again this is Europe and nobody has guns, so some junior ROTC kids with BB guns are a legit threat to the lazy cheese munchers.
 
lol, do the Frogs even have a military anymore? I'm pretty sure the pulled the same shit as the rest of Europe after the Wall fell and said "The US will take care of it." How do you think they have the welfare money for so many muds? Then again this is Europe and nobody has guns, so some junior ROTC kids with BB guns are a legit threat to the lazy cheese munchers.

One of the more competent and well funded ones on Europe.
 
lol, do the Frogs even have a military anymore? I'm pretty sure the pulled the same shit as the rest of Europe after the Wall fell and said "The US will take care of it." How do you think they have the welfare money for so many muds? Then again this is Europe and nobody has guns, so some junior ROTC kids with BB guns are a legit threat to the lazy cheese munchers.
They've still got the Foreign Legion who, if I remember correctly, contemplated airdropping into Paris to overthrow the government barely 60 years ago.
Lmao who the fuck is this reject from a bad Yes cover band?

He looks like the kind of guy who plays Vampire: The Masquerade and takes it really seriously.
But V:TM is a really good RPG though, seriously.
 
They've still got the Foreign Legion who, if I remember correctly, contemplated airdropping into Paris to overthrow the government barely 60 years ago.
Yeah well, 60 years ago the French Foreign Legion was filled with former SS soldiers who had the choice between execution or helping France keep its colonies.
Does the Foreign Legion still sing the Devil's March these days? Or did that part of their culture get purged after the SS officers left the legion?
 
Can you give an example? Because the actual global warming that has actually measurably happened is 1 degree C over 50 years. So did last wednesday feel 0.001C cooler than it "should have"?

If you're talking about global warming/climate change in relation to any given event, you don't understand what global warming even is supposed to be.

I understand that this is a commonly parrotted argument in the media, but think about it. What weather is out of whack? Are you sure it's not just the fact that weather is unpredictable and people have confirmation bias? Remember how fucking dumb some conservatives looked when it snowed early one year and they were like "See global warming is fake cuz otherwise why snow today?"

The changes in global warming are over extremely long periods of time, and extremely small in amplitude. Of course, you can also blame random shit on it, but Pat Robertson could blame that same random shit on gay people.
I guess I should have admitted I am dumb
 
lol, do the Frogs even have a military anymore? I'm pretty sure the pulled the same shit as the rest of Europe after the Wall fell and said "The US will take care of it." How do you think they have the welfare money for so many muds? Then again this is Europe and nobody has guns, so some junior ROTC kids with BB guns are a legit threat to the lazy cheese munchers.

You do know that most of europe is still able to have guns right? Even here in britain we can get guns its just under very certain circumstances. Switzerland makes it mandatory to learn how to use a gun.

Just because we don't hvae a small armoury under our beds doesn't mean we are terrified of the bloody things
 
lol, do the Frogs even have a military anymore? I'm pretty sure the pulled the same shit as the rest of Europe after the Wall fell and said "The US will take care of it." How do you think they have the welfare money for so many muds? Then again this is Europe and nobody has guns, so some junior ROTC kids with BB guns are a legit threat to the lazy cheese munchers.

We mercilessly pick on the French, largely for how quickly Germany’s state of the art rapid mobility armored divisions were able to just motor right past Frances prepared lines of engagement, and slaughter the French on open unfavorable terrain, that was an easy drive to the capital. It’s a sad geographic truism of European war. France and Poland are the battlefields. And their gentle rolling terrain means they get steamrolled by whoever can move the fastest with the most firepower coming in from either side. France and Poland are where armies clash. The terrain doesn’t allow for much defense of those same bits of land.

But for all the jokes France has a first class military. One that is funded, trained, and has actual combat experience. France cannot defend France very well, it naturally being the field where other armies meet. But ZFrance is second only to the US in its ability to project power away from their borders. Israel may be tougher, but only in their local sandbox. France canextend out worldwide when needed. Their navy is in far better shape than any other Western European Nation. They have an actual functional air force, with real, modern, home grown planes, spare parts and enough budget for maintenance. Unlike say Germany, which as of this summer could only field one working combat plane and a handful of helicopters.
 
But V:TM is a really good RPG though, seriously.

Never played it, but I don't doubt it is.

I meant that he probably goes to V:TM LARPs and dresses up like he does in the video and thinks he's a badass vampire.

You do know that most of europe is still able to have guns right? Even here in britain we can get guns its just under very certain circumstances. Switzerland makes it mandatory to learn how to use a gun.

Just because we don't hvae a small armoury under our beds doesn't mean we are terrified of the bloody things

Yeah it just means your kings and masters are terrified of them.

:story:
 
I guess I should have admitted I am dumb
Hey, we're all dumb here. At least you have the self awareness to realize it.

But my point wasn't to call you an idiot, I was just trying to question your assumptions. Most people say the exact same thing as you did. I thought the same thing for a long time. It's one of many interesting studies in narrative shaping.

At least you seem to be able to look at an opinion disagreeing with yours without recoiling in horror. That's what lets you stop being wrong about things. I hope I have that ability, but it's hard to be objective about things like that.
 
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