Legend of Zelda thread - Lorefags GTFO!

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

You know that the story is completely optional, right?

What do you mean?

@Dom Cruise

Exploring as much of the map as I could, I didn't find or complete every shrine but I explored the vast majority of the map.

Sounds like players have got to find exploration inherently fun in and of itself. WW is my favorite game in the series, so I understand that to a degree, but the ocean wasn't barren. You'd actually find things like major cities, real dungeons, and various curiosities/mysteries.

If they made WW like BotW then I'd only find boring seeds and identical shrines I don't like. In fact, I've heard people complain that even WW had a barren sea, which I disagree with as much as you do about BotW. I guess we all have different expectations of how much content we expect to be included.

Sorry if that was a little harsh, but it does sound like you genuinely didn't play enough of the game to have a fair assessment, I get a game either grabs you or it doesn't, in the case of Twilight Princess there's a Zelda that doesn't grab me, but with BOTW I don't know what to tell you as the game gives you an open area to explore right from the start, it's not as slow an intro as TP.

I acknowledged I might not have played enough of it, I certainly didn't get close to beating it. It just doesn't sound like anything changes, just more of the same.

TP is notorious for having a slow opening, I'm not surprised it didn't grab you. I think I read that the HD version fixes the pacing but I didn't play that one.

Obsessing over the "timeline" may be dumb, but you being so triggered by any talk of Zelda and story is also a little embarrassing, can anyone tell me why the topic of Zelda's timeline is so radioactive? I agree that the supposed timeline doesn't make any sense and isn't worth thinking about too much, but the massive amount of salt any discussion about it generates is kind of hilarious.

Good take. I had no idea people screeched autistically from both sides about it. Who cares if people like or don't like the timeline/story stuff?

I find the timeline vaguely interesting but only in passing, it's a cool idea but I couldn't tell you which games are connected outside the direct sequels. Kinda funny how some people apparently lose their mind if anyone likes the lore at all lmao

How many of these open world games let you climb almost any surface?

Just for the hell of it? Why would anyone want to? Maybe in a rock climbing simulator.

 

[NerdShamer]

What do you mean?

Nothing's stopping you from sneaking into Hyrule Castle after you jumped out of the opening area.

 

[Never Scored]

Obsessing over the "timeline" may be dumb, but you being so triggered by any talk of Zelda and story is also a little embarrassing, can anyone tell me why the topic of Zelda's timeline is so radioactive? I agree that the supposed timeline doesn't make any sense and isn't worth thinking about too much, but the massive amount of salt any discussion about it generates is kind of hilarious.

It's radioactive because people really into Zelda lore are almost as bad as people who like Sonic a bit too much and beat off to the bat with tits. I've been talking about Zelda online since like 1999, like I remember posting on forums talking about Majora's Mask when it was still Zelda: Gaiden, and the people really into the lore are some of the most off putting, autistic people on the Internet.

I wouldn't say people are triggered by it. It's more, "Lol look at this dumb faggot."

I still love BOTW despite it's paper thin story, it's just one place where I do think there could be improvement.

IMO it's one of the games best features. I wish more games would just say "fuck it" and not bog everything down with a billion cutscenes. I really think the number of cutscenes and the amount of dialogue in AAA titles has become overkill since the PS3/360 era. I'm just not into that shit.

 

[Dom Cruise]

On a side note, since BOTW2 is coming out 6 years after the first game and correct me if I'm wrong, is reusing some of the map from the first game, does that mean an all new open world Zelda game will not be seen for another decade at least? That it might be the 2030s before we see another mainline entry after BOTW2?

That's pretty nuts to think about unless Nintendo has already being doing a lot of pre-production work on BOTW3 or whatever it winds up being.

It might sound crazy but it took 19 years for a Metroid game to take place after Fusion, 15 years for another Mario in the style of 64 and Sunshine and 14 years for a new Advance Wars (save for the delay of course)

Well you're fucking wrong you ignorant fucking fag. This is why you're @Dom Cruise. We can't quote your post because of users like you.

Fuck you, Dom Cruise. You fucking shit.

I said personal favorites, I didn't argue that A Link To The Past isn't the best one, given it's amazing level of quality and innovation for the early 90s I think it's respectable to say it's the best, I'm just saying the impact for me was dulled because I played it after most of the others, I still had a blast, but it was also pretty familiar, it was cool to see where all of the biggest tropes began though.

You need to calm down, friendo.

@Dom Cruise
Sounds like players have got to find exploration inherently fun in and of itself. WW is my favorite game in the series, so I understand that to a degree, but the ocean wasn't barren. You'd actually find things like major cities, real dungeons, and various curiosities/mysteries.

If they made WW like BotW then I'd only find boring seeds and identical shrines I don't like. In fact, I've heard people complain that even WW had a barren sea, which I disagree with as much as you do about BotW. I guess we all have different expectations of how much content we expect to be included.

I actually agree that WW does do some things better than BOTW, I said myself that I wish BOTW had something closer to the Ghost Ship in WW.

In a way it's kind of an odd mirror image of each other, the sailing could get tedious at times in WW, but there was so much cool stuff to discover, the overworld in BOTW is amazingly designed and fun to explore on it's own, it just lacks enough specific to discover.

I acknowledged I might not have played enough of it, I certainly didn't get close to beating it. It just doesn't sound like anything changes, just more of the same.

It does change a bit as you reach different areas.

TP is notorious for having a slow opening, I'm not surprised it didn't grab you. I think I read that the HD version fixes the pacing but I didn't play that one.

Really wish that would get a Switch re-release, I feel like this should be the year I shit or get off the pot with that game since it's been 15 years, but I'm, gun-shy given we don't if Nintendo will actually re-release it.

Good take. I had no idea people screeched autistically from both sides about it. Who cares if people like or don't like the timeline/story stuff?

As Never Scored mentioned it's because there is a certain stereotype of a certain type of Zelda fan.

I get that but anything can be discussed in a non embarrassing way.

Just for the hell of it? Why would anyone want to? Maybe in a rock climbing simulator.

What isn't cool about being able to climb any surface?

It's radioactive because people really into Zelda lore are almost as bad as people who like Sonic a bit too much and beat off to the bat with tits. I've been talking about Zelda online since like 1999, like I remember posting on forums talking about Majora's Mask when it was still Zelda: Gaiden, and the people really into the lore are some of the most off putting, autistic people on the Internet.

I get that but there's no need to get that defensive about it and make any discussion at all verboten.

My take for what it's worth on the whole timeline thing is maybe the Goddesses didn't create Hyrule once, but multiple times? Maybe Ganon is some natural force that eventually corrupts things forcing a "reset" on everything, maybe BOTW2 will actually go into this?

BOTW has that blue energy force and Ganon seems to be tied in with some kind of purple energy, maybe these are the essences that make up Hyrule?

I'd be interested to know what 90s discussion about the series would have been like given how fewer games there were.

IMO it's one of the games best features. I wish more games would just say "fuck it" and not bog everything down with a billion cutscenes. I really think the number of cutscenes and the amount of dialogue in AAA titles has become overkill since the PS3/360 era. I'm just not into that shit.

It's interesting in it's own way how NES like it is, but I do hope the sequel has a deeper story.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Nothing's stopping you from sneaking into Hyrule Castle after you jumped out of the opening area.

Yeah, that's kind of the problem. If everything in the middle is optional there's not much of a story, is there? Just a setup and an ending. Where's the middle?

If you play WW and could just run straight to Ganon after the first island it wouldn't even make any sense, because there's an actual story in the middle.

BotW reminds me of Paper Mario: Sticker Star in its shallowness compared to previous games in their respective series.

 

[Milwaukee Macho Man]

@Dom Cruise

I'm not as down on your Far Cry or Assassin's Creeds as much as you seem to think I am, but for me BOTW's atmosphere and sense of freedom made it a cut above other similar games.

How many of these open world games let you climb almost any surface?

You immediately question my "taste" the second I answered your question about other 2010's games, take a general superior attitude to any game anyone else brings up, and constantly scoff at games as if they are dogshit without ever explaining what the problem ever is. You pull off this judgmental hardcore gamer shit and it's really not warranted for Breath of the Wild as being the game of the decade. I'm not saying your taste is bad for thinking Breath of the Wild is the greatest, I'm just giving you my reasons why I disagree after you asked and would like to have an actual discussion.

Also...wasn't climbing everything basically the entire MO of Assassins Creed? I haven't played any past Black Flag so if they got rid of it I have no idea. But this is still such a weird benchmark to point to as being able to climb anywhere in Far Cry or GTA really wouldn't add much to the core game.

Edit: I also want to clarify, I don't think those games are *way* better than Breath of the Wild even though that's what you asked for. I more so don't think Breath of the Wild is *way* better than those games. It's not like I think Breath of the Wild is dogshit, it just didn't have the longevity with me to consider it superior to the rest of 2010 games.

Could Breath of the Wild 2 be that? Maybe, but it all depends on how they expand on what they established.

 

[Never Scored]

I'd be interested to know what 90s discussion about the series would have been like given how fewer games there were.

The most popular theory online until Wind Waker was the games retold the same story over and over in different ways besides the obviously direct squeals like Link's Awakening.

There were a lot of purists who looked down on the jump to 3D because of how different the OOT played, but most people were blown out of the water by OOT.

 

[Dom Cruise]

@Dom Cruise

You immediately question my "taste" the second I answered your question about other 2010's games, take a general superior attitude to any game anyone else brings up, and constantly scoff at games as if they are dogshit without ever explaining what the problem ever is. You pull off this judgmental hardcore gamer shit and it's really not warranted for Breath of the Wild as being the game of the decade. I'm not saying your taste is bad for thinking Breath of the Wild is the greatest, I'm just giving you my reasons why I disagree after you asked and would like to have an actual discussion.

Also...wasn't climbing everything basically the entire MO of Assassins Creed? I haven't played any past Black Flag so if they got rid of it I have no idea. But this is still such a weird benchmark to point to as being able to climb anywhere in Far Cry or GTA really wouldn't add much to the core game.

Edit: I also want to clarify, I don't think those games are *way* better than Breath of the Wild even though that's what you asked for. I more so don't think Breath of the Wild is *way* better than those games. It's not like I think Breath of the Wild is dogshit, it just didn't have the longevity with me to consider it superior to the rest of 2010 games.

Could Breath of the Wild 2 be that? Maybe, but it all depends on how they expand on what they established.

Ok, fair enough, if I came off as a little too smug, I apologize.

But in the case of Assassin's Creed you can climb every structure but not like mountains and things, though maybe some of the later games change that, I've not played anything past Rogue.

The Far Cry games are fun but at the end of the day you point guns at people and shoot them, like a million other games, BOTW achieves something more unique in atmosphere and vibe that to me is more memorable.

A lot of what we're talking about boils down to tomato, tomatoe at the end of the day, just depends on one's personal taste.

The most popular theory online until Wind Waker was the games retold the same story over and over in different ways besides the obviously direct squeals like Link's Awakening.

There were a lot of purists who looked down on the jump to 3D because of how different the OOT played, but most people were blown out of the water by OOT.

Heck, even when playing a good chunk of Wind Waker that was my assumption is that every incarnation of Link was a totally separate continuity until the direct references to OOT.

That was a great "wow" moment but unfortunately the series lost something by committing to a connected timeline like that.

 

[Grub]

I consider A Link to the Past to be the Zero Mission style remake of Zelda 1. ALTTP is what Zelda 1 was supposed to be in my opinion. Maybe that's why it was not a sequel like Zelda 2 (or Awakening).

So, would that make oot the 3d remake of a remake?

The story of both games are in the manual and don't really match up. Oot and alttp share a lot more similarities than alttp and loz do. Loz and alttp are pretty different in every way other than perspective and a few shared items.

 

[Milwaukee Macho Man]

So, would that make oot the 3d remake of a remake?

The story of both games are in the manual and don't really match up. Oot and alttp share a lot more similarities than alttp and loz do. Loz and alttp are pretty different in every way other than perspective and a few shared items.

None of them are actually remakes.

LttP feels like the game they wanted Legend of Zelda to be, but couldn't do on the NES. This is probably one of the major reasons that Zelda 2 turned out the way it did. (there was nothing more to do with the style on the NES/Famicom, so they went with a more combat oriented game that required it be sidescrolling)

OoT is clearly inspired by Link to the Past. It follows it's blueprint. It's not a remake, but it's them taking the basic structure of Link to the Past and applying it in 3D. You can't do a 3D remake of LttP IMO, but you can follow the basic structure, carry over items, etc. etc.

Remaking Legend of Zelda is pointless in the same way that remaking LttP in 3D would be pointless. Anything you could get from the remake has already been accomplished in the follow up game.

 

[Grub]

None of them are actually remakes.

LttP feels like the game they wanted Legend of Zelda to be, but couldn't do on the NES. This is probably one of the major reasons that Zelda 2 turned out the way it did. (there was nothing more to do with the style on the NES/Famicom, so they went with a more combat oriented game that required it be sidescrolling)

OoT is clearly inspired by Link to the Past. It follows it's blueprint. It's not a remake, but it's them taking the basic structure of Link to the Past and applying it in 3D. You can't do a 3D remake of LttP IMO, but you can follow the basic structure, carry over items, etc. etc.

Remaking Legend of Zelda is pointless in the same way that remaking LttP in 3D would be pointless. Anything you could get from the remake has already been accomplished in the follow up game.

I don't think any of them are remakes personally.

I think you're reading too much into it all. Zelda two is the way it is because back then the idea of sequels needing to be similar to their predecessors wasn't necessarily a thing. So they just made whatever game they felt like making. Alttp was them doing what they did at the time and taking successful nes games and making basically the same game but upgraded to 16-bits, and oot was, taking those games and making them 3d as was the custom at the time on the n64.

 

[Never Scored]

LttP feels like the game they wanted Legend of Zelda to be, but couldn't do on the NES. This is probably one of the major reasons that Zelda 2 turned out the way it did. (there was nothing more to do with the style on the NES/Famicom, so they went with a more combat oriented game that required it be sidescrolling)

I think Zelda 2 was a stylistic choice. They totally could have done something like Star Tropics where the over world is the way it is now in Zelda II and you get the Star Tropics style zoom in for towns and dungeons where you can move in four directions and jump and stuff and it would have been stylistically closer to the original, while still opening up design possibilities. I don't think Nintendo did a lot of direct sequels where they didn't overhaul gameplay in the 80s. Japan's version of Super Mario Bros 2 is the only one that comes to mind, but I stand to be corrected.

taking those games and making them 3d as was the custom at the time on the n64.

People online complained about Nintendo bringing everything into 3D in the late 1990s the same way people complain about stuff being made open world today. It's amazing, the complaints are almost 1:1. Why is Hyrule field is so big and empty when you could blast across the entire map in like 30 seconds with the Pegasus Boots in A Link to the Past? Why did they throw out the overhead style that worked fine for the last decade? Why isn't the feather in Mario Kart 64? Why isn't Super Mario 64 two players? Why don't more of the levels in Super Mario 64 resemble the old style of gameplay like Bowser in the Dark World? People don't like change.

 

[Grub]

I don't think Nintendo did a lot of direct sequels where they didn't overhaul gameplay in the 80s. Japan's version of Super Mario Bros 2 is the only one that comes to mind, but I stand to be corrected.

I think back then the idea was something like 'why would people want to play the same game again after beating the first one?'

People online complained about Nintendo bringing everything into 3D in the late 1990s the same way people complain about stuff being made open world today. It's amazing, the complaints are almost 1:1.

I was a kid when the 64 came out, I just remember being stoked everything was in 3d. Open world games were fun when they were novel, until you've played enough of them to realize they all end up being the same shallow pointless crap.

 

[Never Scored]

I was a kid when the 64 came out, I just remember being stoked everything was in 3d. Open world games were fun when they were novel, until you've played enough of them to realize they all end up being the same shallow pointless crap.

It's still novel to me because I don't have time to play a lot of new games. My peak of being into games was the N64/Gamecube era. I was done college by the time Wii came out. I probably play 1-2 new games a year at this point.

 

[Grub]

It's still novel to me because I don't have time to play a lot of new games. My peak of being into games was the N64/Gamecube era. I was done college by the time Wii came out. I probably play 1-2 new games a year at this point.

Yeah pretty much the same for me. Although I'm probably about 5-10 years behind as far as the newest games I've played.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

I think Zelda 2 was a stylistic choice. They totally could have done something like Star Tropics where the over world is the way it is now in Zelda II and you get the Star Tropics style zoom in for towns and dungeons where you can move in four directions and jump and stuff and it would have been stylistically closer to the original, while still opening up design possibilities. I don't think Nintendo did a lot of direct sequels where they didn't overhaul gameplay in the 80s. Japan's version of Super Mario Bros 2 is the only one that comes to mind, but I stand to be corrected.

To be fair, Star Tropics was a few years after Zelda 2 so they may not have had the skill/tools to accomplish it.

 

[Smaug's Smokey Hole]

To be fair, Star Tropics was a few years after Zelda 2 so they may not have had the skill/tools to accomplish it.

Zelda 2 was a Famicom disk game as well so it could not use any of the function enhancing chips that a cartridge could hold. It was also so fucking ugly and that wasn't a fault of the FDS.

 

[Dom Cruise]

So, here's some random ideas on what Nintendo could do with the series with regards to spinoffs and remakes, as it's probably going to be quite a while until we see another mainline entry after BOTW2.

A Link Between Worlds was a direct sequel to A Link To The Past, correct? What if they took that approach with Ocarina of Time and made a third game in the vein of OOT where it's a smaller but denser map with plenty of dungeons? As much as I've been praising BOTW, it'd be cool to see another game in the N64 style.

Similarly it's not too late to make an actual full 3D Wind Waker sequel, I know that Toon Link's story continued on DS and wound up with him back on dry land, but they could simply have a game set between WW and Phantom Hourglass or just come up with some reason why he finds himself back in the ocean again after Spirit Tracks, I loved exploring the ocean in WW and was always sad I never got to do it again.

At the very least some remakes of Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks on the Switch in the vein of the Link's Awakening remake would be cool, I always thought it sucked how they wasted WW's art style on the DS's 3D which didn't look good even at the time, it should have been high quality pixel art ala the Castlevania follow ups on DS or at least a mix of 2D and 3D ala New Super Mario Bros, though maybe Phantom Hourglass should instead be remade as a fully 3D game and proper sequel to WW.

Finally is returning to Termina as a setting a good idea? Part of me feels it should be left alone so MM continues to be very unique, but part of me thinks it'd be cool to see Termina done with more modern graphics, should a BOTW3 be an open world Termina? What if the WW sequel was toon Link finding himself in an ocean version of Termina? (this is what I assumed would happen prior to TP's announcement)

Those are my crazy ideas, thoughts?

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Similarly it's not too late to make an actual full 3D Wind Waker sequel, I know that Toon Link's story continued on DS and wound up with him back on dry land, but they could simply have a game set between WW and Phantom Hourglass or just come up with some reason why he finds himself back in the ocean again after Spirit Tracks, I loved exploring the ocean in WW and was always sad I never got to do it again.

Good idea, but it could take place after Spirit Tracks instead of being placed between other games. Wouldn't need to do messy narrative excuses and dance between stories that way.

Maybe use submarines instead of trains as the vehicular gimmick this time around. It'd be a cool new way to explore the ocean again from a different perspective.

 

[Product Intervention]

I didn't mind Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks. They were different and a bit clunky, but the dungeons were alright. I hate the giant centerpiece dungeon concept though where you revisit a large temple after each smaller temple and slowly work deeper into it. I think mostly because of the instant-death statues. I don't really enjoy one hit kill type stuff.

Spirit Tracks had a train in it and was train themed. 10/10

@Grub Hey Grub imagine your cute grub avatar having a nice snack in an open-air dining car on a drain. It would have a tiny hat on, too! CUUUUUUUTE!!