Off-Topic Losing people to transgenderism support thread - Support group for trans widows and other people who lost loved ones to troonism

[Rotter]

Link to my original story, and a bit of an update:

So as per people's advice, I have kept my distance with my best friend for the time being while I decide what to do. In the mean time, as someone suggested, I spent time with his dad. The old man was like a second father to me growing up, so I want to make sure he's alright.

I had some "car issues" and called him over so maybe he could help me fix it. There was nothing wrong with the car, I just wanted an excuse to sit in my garage and drink with him. We sat and talked, sipping cheap beer while we just talked about life. He told me stories of when he was a young adult like me, we talked about cars, politics, guns, anything to keep him distracted about his ex-son.

What really broke my heart is when he told me, "It's like you're the only son I have left anymore".

My best friend can't even see how much he's hurting his own dad, and that's what really pisses me off. That old bastard of his is one of the best men you can have for a father. He's a hardass most of the time, but a funny guy too, and yet he does this to him, just because of some fucked up fetish. The more I reflect on it, the more I hate you, Zack.

Your sisters are weirded out by you (as they rightly should be), your dad is grieving, and I'm fucking tired. 10 unanswered texts, 5 missed phonecalls, and 7 discord messages within four days. Think I'm trying to tell you something bud?

Your good-natured self have been taken advantage of by a "friend" for far too long.

This is what you wrote about him:

"Going out into public and dicking around at a guitar store, going to music shops, or even the local bookstore isn't really an option because we always end up cutting our trip into town short, since someone always clocks him or misgenders him. Literally I drove us out into town to check out a new manga he wanted to read (and I was going to pick up a few books for my college), and we literally walked in, got a few feet in when he pulled me aside and begged to go back home, saying that the group of teenage girls were eyeing him funny".

He is going to face these interactions for the rest of his life. People notice/have eyes in their head. Ask him if he thinks that'll ever change.

I guess he can stay inside for the rest of his life if he's got the money ...I doubt it though. Anyway. Most of us don't have patience you do, but we all have a limit.

 

[Slap47]

That's been my feeling all along with this tranny stuff. Watching people just transform one day, like someone hollowed out their heads and dropped in an uncanny-valley, artificial personality that almost acts like them, except it keeps repeating the same mantras over and over. I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop, but it's just not happening.

I don't think most people would have an issue with transgenderism if it was just a change in self-identity and not a fundamental change in personality and values. Overnight people suddenly act as though they had an overpriced education on the West Coast or in New England.

 

[AMHOLIO]

I don't think most people would have an issue with transgenderism if it was just a change in self-identity and not a fundamental change in personality and values. Overnight people suddenly act as though they had an overpriced education on the West Coast or in New England.

It really is like joining the super elite social club for some people. The "trans are better than cis gender because [...]" are fucking bananas: you being more feminine/masculine than other women/men doesn't mean you are suddenly greater at being a woman/man than the other party. By trans logic, its like showing 2 dogs and asking which dog is better at being a dog. By more rational logic its presenting a cat and a dog and asking if the cat is the better dog because it likes to be more vocal and social than the dog.

The other is just a change in mental health. People being much more self consious and self loathing with dysphoria when it comes from nowhere, becoming depressed or flying off the handle for minor things, making riskier choices and having more short term goals than long term ones. Like stuff that indicates this person is teetering or is slipping off the edge of sanity. Its tiring being afraid of saying the wrong thing.

 

[Banditotron]

One of best friends from childhood trooned out a few years ago. Let's call her Kate. She and I were friends from middle school and throughout highschool and we were pretty close.

Anyways, I had a bit of a reputation as a matchmaker in highschool. it's not like I was particularly socially adept, I just had the smarts to know that people with interests in common are probably going to get along and figured it would work for dating as well.

So, at some point I introduce my friend Kate to a guy called Logan. I didn't know Logan very well, but I knew Logan was into the same video games as Kate and was even a fan of the same sports teams. They hit it off, and a year after high school graduation they're getting married. Super happy for Kate and Logan, right? I felt really proud to have been the one who introduced my friend to the person who would become her husband, you know?

Well, at some point I suddenly stop hearing from Kate. Like she dropped off the face of the earth. By coincidence, I later downloaded Instagram and found you could have the app automatically follow people's accounts by matching their accounts with your contacts list. Kate's account is one of the ones it found. I figured I should check it out and see what she's up to, right?

Well. That was my mistake. Kate now goes by "Prince" or some shit, and she's a "they". Also, her entire Instagram feed is her posing in sheer dresses and lingerie. I dont know why you would assert you aren't a woman while also showing their world your almost naked, clearly female body but I digress. I suppose somehow in the span of time I lost contact with Kate she had gone off the deep end and drank the gender coolaid. She's completely lost her personality and has become a strange, vain person.

She's still married to Logan, though.
Logan, if you're reading this (which I know you arent), sorry about that. Oops.

 

[DNA_JACKED]

My sister went down this route. As a young girl she was always super anxious. Even going on 8-9 years old ordering her meal at mcdonalds either ended in tears or my mother doing it for her. She has serious issues making friends and always felt like the odd one out for never being on the up and up in a social situation. She's shy and quiet, very artsy.

As a pre teen and later teenager she began dealing with suicidal thoughts and depression. She then jumped from lesbian to bi to pan sexual within a few years. Sure, whatever. Then she decides shes trans after a friend of hers came out and convinced her she must be trans too, thats why shes so sad. So she decides to become a man. She finds out that her anti anxiety meds wouldnt be compatible with HRT, so she stops them. She lies to her therapists and her psycologists all through middle and high school, saying the therapy they prescribed was working great and she was confident in coming off said meds, while in reality her anxiety and suicidal intrusive thoughts had only been getting worse.

Discussing this with her is impossible. You know the drill, you get labeled as "transphobic" and all conversation is shut down. Even in normal conversation she shuts down constantly. If she is upset about a subject or has any anxiety (which is all the time) she just refuses to communicate, eventually storming off in tears.

Her friend group is made up entirely of the type you'd expect, a bunch of self proclaimed trans/enby/asexuals with silly replacement names and rainbow hair, terrible makeup, and a clothing style straight out of a 90s spoof. They communicate almost solely with each other, spend WAY too much time online, and feed into each other's self indulgent pity party over how "oppressed" they are.

Honestly I've given up any hope she will ever be normal. She has refused to go any further then declaring herself "trans" and binding her breasts (so if she ever snaps out of it she'll have droopy noodle tits for the rest of her life), so I dont think she'll ever go full butcher job. She will, however, be unhappy and stressed out for years, decades, possibly her whole life, because she refuses to treat her anxiety properly. No amount of outside help will fix it since she lies to anyone trying to help her. The only thing you can do is sit back and hope that eventually she gets reality slapped into her gently and fixes her problems of her own accord instead of crashing hard and realizing she has ruining her teens and her 20s on woke bullshit. But given she is going to college and wants to work in a college, ideally in california, the odds of that happening are about on par with winning the lottery.

 

[Jarolleon]

I have seen so many people transition now. I wrote about it here

I've seen people go from lesbians to gay men in polycules. I've seen people change from being cool to being super annoying and trans 24/7. When I stopped identifying as trans, I lost a bunch of people.

I've seen too many people transition to count (I can count at least a dozen people who I knew pre transition; if we counted people who already were trans when I met them, it'd probably double or triple).

I literally have nightmares when I'm sleeping that more people, especially people I respect, will transition. Because at this point, it feels so inevitable. I've had so many people completely change everything because of transgenderism. People from so many different places have: literally friends from elementary school, from the internet, from college, everywhere. I also have recurring nightmares that someone will find out about my "transphobic" views and I'll lose everyone. I'm even worried that I could get reported to my college and face disciplinary action.

And you can't even really find support for stuff like this. I won't go into details because I'm not stupid, but I've said this all before on the internet and it was very nasty, and I just got told I'm a terf who needs to get over my bigotry because this "proves I know I'm wrong". If you Google this stuff, you just get articles about how to support your friends through their transitions. Nothing about the fact that a friend transitioning kind of fucks you up a bit. You can't talk to shrinks about it because all of them have drunk the kool-aid.

I am so, so sick of all of this. And it's really telling that one of the only places to get support right now is fucking Kiwi Farms.

Edit: forgot to add how they all got on hormones within a month of finding out they're trans, which then amplified their mental illnesses by 50000000%. So now they fly off the handle at the drop of a hat.

It sounds like troonery is some kind of chain reaction that converts pre-existing social circles into the Rat King.

 

[Sperghetti]

And you can't even really find support for stuff like this. I won't go into details because I'm not stupid, but I've said this all before on the internet and it was very nasty, and I just got told I'm a terf who needs to get over my bigotry because this "proves I know I'm wrong". If you Google this stuff, you just get articles about how to support your friends through their transitions. Nothing about the fact that a friend transitioning kind of fucks you up a bit. You can't talk to shrinks about it because all of them have drunk the kool-aid.

I just wanted to offer my condolences for this. Dealing with people around you having issues, mental or otherwise, can be horribly draining and frustrating, but it's like there's no support or even acknowledgement of this. Everything you find is just more tripe telling you how to support them, like you're some endless fountain of patience and positive energy who exists to be nothing more than an asspat dispenser. And god forbid you think someone is overreacting or handling their problem poorly.

For as much as people squawk about "validity", it's clear that they believe only certain problems are valid and everyone else has no right to complain.

 

[Wallace]

Honestly I've given up any hope she will ever be normal. She has refused to go any further then declaring herself "trans" and binding her breasts (so if she ever snaps out of it she'll have droopy noodle tits for the rest of her life), so I dont think she'll ever go full butcher job. She will, however, be unhappy and stressed out for years, decades, possibly her whole life, because she refuses to treat her anxiety properly. No amount of outside help will fix it since she lies to anyone trying to help her. The only thing you can do is sit back and hope that eventually she gets reality slapped into her gently and fixes her problems of her own accord instead of crashing hard and realizing she has ruining her teens and her 20s on woke bullshit. But given she is going to college and wants to work in a college, ideally in california, the odds of that happening are about on par with winning the lottery.

There really needs to be more focus on the secondary benefits of troonery. It's amazing how addictive it can be. The affirmation of delusional beliefs, the relief from your anxiety, the leverage to throw stones at your enemies... It's a cult.

 

[bored loser]

I just wanted to offer my condolences for this. Dealing with people around you having issues, mental or otherwise, can be horribly draining and frustrating, but it's like there's no support or even acknowledgement of this. Everything you find is just more tripe telling you how to support them, like you're some endless fountain of patience and positive energy who exists to be nothing more than an asspat dispenser. And god forbid you think someone is overreacting or handling their problem poorly.

For as much as people squawk about "validity", it's clear that they believe only certain problems are valid and everyone else has no right to complain.

Thank you. Yeah, there's no resources. The ones that are around are for people in much worse situations with this (parents, children, or spouses).

It's absolutely insane how little logic some of them have after they fall into it, too. Not only do they think they're biologically the opposite sex, but they think that somehow nobody will notice they're trans when they have selfies and trans flags all over their social media. They don't see anything wrong with calling themselves lesbians or gay men, even when they're lesbians only for transwomen. They get pissed off at people for using "they" for them when the other person hasn't met them and is using it as a placeholder, as if someone should know they go by voi/void/voids pronouns.

They talk about being trans so much, it's literally all they talk about. You can be having a normal day, and suddenly someone will go, "Do cis people actually have problems?" or some shit. 24/7, everything is about being trans.

They convince people who have never thought about gender that they're somehow gender special too for not having that "innate sense" and living like a normal human being (this one got me to buy into it and socially transition. Even bought a binder. Cringe). I really, really try to convince anybody I see who's saying they're confused about their gender that it's all a load of horseshit, and even if they believe me, the propaganda from the other side is so intense that they bend to them.

And the worst part is that the field I'm going into is full of them, so I have years and years of this to look forward to. If being put into a coma for a decade were possible, I would do it so I wouldn't have to deal with this anymore.

Phew, rate me MOTI but at least people are listening and taking me seriously here without calling me a terf.

 

[Banditotron]

Honestly I don’t mind enbies. I don’t give a fuck if you want to be called “they.” At least they’re not chopping their body parts off. They’re kind of based, actually. They make troons seethe endlessly, just go to /lgbt/ and search “enby/non-binary/enbies”

They say "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", but enbies are just as guilty of all the wacky shit non-enby trannies are. Ive seen plenty of enbies pop testosterone and get their tits cut off. Also, everything makes /lgbt/ trannies mad so having chosen enbies as their target has no real significance.

 

[Pokemonquistador2]

I thank Jesus that I was a teenager before the invention of the internet. As a socially awkward kid born at the tail end of the family and finding solace in nerd shit, I would have been a prime target for the Alphabet Cult. I was desperate for any kind of acceptance since I didn't have much respect from the rest of my family. Today's kids though are totally fucked, as a lot of them have their families and local communities patting them on the head for this shit. Imagine you're a 13 year old boy who wants acceptance. If you decide to troon out, you'll be on the news with people trumpeting to the world about how stunning and brave you are. How could any kid resist that kind of love bombing?

It's not as if making functional families wasn't hard enough. Now, if you want to get married, you not only have to worry about your spouse divorcing you on a whim, you have to worry about them going troon and forcing you to go along with it so that you don't look homophobic to your friends and community. This is not good for society.

 

[Jhonson Jhonson]

It's not my friend, but one of my mom's.
She has a lot of (moderate to hardcore, young to old) feminist friends. One of them is a lesbian who trooned out last year. The few times I saw her she creeped me out about how and she clings to my mother, even on FB she always here. Now she said she's a man (I suspect one reason is she's one of those "I want to force date straight women" kind of pervert )
My mama is headstrong, but she's very passionate about societal topics ;
I'm afraid she will soon drink the trans kool-aid and support this shit without knowing about the hidden rabbit hole. I already saw her fighting with some of her feminsit friends about the trans movement.
And I don't want a troonish ((father))-in-law

I'm still thinking of a way to talk about that with her.

 

[ladytron]

Made an account to post here, I'm relieved to know there's people going through something similar.

My best friend from childhood has been trooning out (ftm) for about 2 years. Her mum, though accepting, is devastated and frankly so am I - we've gone from talking and hanging out every day to a few painfully awkward conversations a year. Her humour has completely vanished along with her personality, which is buried under mountains of gender discourse stuff. She talks to me like she's enduring the conversation because I won't go out of my way to compliment her for being a stunning brave gay man. I resent the tumblr and discord troons that influenced this but I'm also angry with her for trading years of friendship for easy internet validation. There's no way I could communicate that without losing her entirely though. If it was just a schoolfriend I wouldn't care about any of this, but she's been like my other half since nursery and I miss her so much (cheesy ik).

Is it best to just hope it's a phase and leave these troons alone until they snap out of it, or to try and reconnect before it's too late? I'm worried we'll fall out of contact entirely if I don't reach out soon but I don't know if it's the right thing to do.

 

[Muttnik]

When I was in high school, myself, along with at least four other girls, was essentially sexually assaulted by another girl. She'd make friends with you and then take you on an outing and get you while the car was moving and you had nowhere to go.

Anyway, one of her victims, a really pretty shy girl I knew, has fully trooned out after years of hatred for her body. I sometimes find my own body feeling alienated from me after what happened. I'm not about to drink the troon kool aid but I can definitely see why she did it. It's not healthy though and I wish her nothing but the best.

 

[DNA_JACKED]

Made an account to post here, I'm relieved to know there's people going through something similar.

My best friend from childhood has been trooning out (ftm) for about 2 years. Her mum, though accepting, is devastated and frankly so am I - we've gone from talking and hanging out every day to a few painfully awkward conversations a year. Her humour has completely vanished along with her personality, which is buried under mountains of gender discourse stuff. She talks to me like she's enduring the conversation because I won't go out of my way to compliment her for being a stunning brave gay man. I resent the tumblr and discord troons that influenced this but I'm also angry with her for trading years of friendship for easy internet validation. There's no way I could communicate that without losing her entirely though. If it was just a schoolfriend I wouldn't care about any of this, but she's been like my other half since nursery and I miss her so much (cheesy ik).

Is it best to just hope it's a phase and leave these troons alone until they snap out of it, or to try and reconnect before it's too late? I'm worried we'll fall out of contact entirely if I don't reach out soon but I don't know if it's the right thing to do.

The best thing you can do is be clear and straightforward. If left to the troonery cult, she'll end up cutting off all contact with those who dont accept everything she does anyway. If you tell her and she rejects you, well no loss, she was already going to cut you out sooner or later. If she ever comes to her senses though, shell know you saw through the bullshit and can still be talked to.

 

[Odnovo]

What I have noticed about MTFs is that in general, they either had a lack of a father figure, or they had a father figure that was either extremely abusive or otherwise non-respectable. I feel that a lot of what causes young men to troon out isn't necessarily sexual deviancy or trying to escape being a loser, but rather the fact that they were not allowed the opportunity to develop a masculine identity.

 

[AMHOLIO]

I'm still thinking of a way to talk about that with her.

You can always show her Ms. Yanniv as an ice breaker for general troonism? I'm not sure myself, but you seem close enough to your mom that I'm sure you'll find a way. If she doesn't bring it up first that is.

Made an account to post here,

Oof. Welcome to the round table.

I'm in the same predicament myself, but less severeish. I like what the other poster said before me. I think if you're the type of person who rather feel like they'll feel more guilty EDIT: (hit send too early) if they don't say something than if they break their friend's heart, then go on that impulse. No matter what you choose, it isn't your fault if you can't save them or change the relationship. It just is what it is, and they made their choice, you just have to do what's good for you.

I'm not about to drink the troon kool aid but I can definitely see why she did it. It's not healthy though and I wish her nothing but the best.

This is a common story amongst FtM subreddits, actually. You can dive into those and see how many people are coping by changing their bodies. It's a same, but processing grief and pain isn't easy. You seem to have a calm chill mind from all your post (I always enjoy reading your thoughts on the threads!), I had a feeling we wouldn't have to worry about you (and glad you've handled what happened to you and your friends as well as you are, sorry for the funny wording). I hope your friend chooses to face her feelings more one day but as you said, I don't blame her and there's not much to be done other than letting her be.

What I have noticed about MTFs is that in general, they either had a lack of a father figure, or they had a father figure that was either extremely abusive or otherwise non-respectable. I feel that a lot of what causes young men to troon out isn't necessarily sexual deviancy or trying to escape being a loser, but rather the fact that they were not allowed the opportunity to develop a masculine identity.

It's a good theory but I feel like its part of the puzzle rather than the main piece. Like, those without a strong masculine presence can become incels or soyboys or criminals or a variety of other things. It's like the lack of a male presence in addition to whatever else (from autism to perverts to mental illnesses and beyond) is making them troon.

 

[Banditotron]

Made an account to post here, I'm relieved to know there's people going through something similar.

My best friend from childhood has been trooning out (ftm) for about 2 years. Her mum, though accepting, is devastated and frankly so am I - we've gone from talking and hanging out every day to a few painfully awkward conversations a year. Her humour has completely vanished along with her personality, which is buried under mountains of gender discourse stuff. She talks to me like she's enduring the conversation because I won't go out of my way to compliment her for being a stunning brave gay man. I resent the tumblr and discord troons that influenced this but I'm also angry with her for trading years of friendship for easy internet validation. There's no way I could communicate that without losing her entirely though. If it was just a schoolfriend I wouldn't care about any of this, but she's been like my other half since nursery and I miss her so much (cheesy ik).

Is it best to just hope it's a phase and leave these troons alone until they snap out of it, or to try and reconnect before it's too late? I'm worried we'll fall out of contact entirely if I don't reach out soon but I don't know if it's the right thing to do.

She will not snap out of it. People do not "snap out of" cults or religions.
Either tear the bandaid off now and tell her the truth of how you feel, or let yourself drift away from her socially.

If you tell her that you miss who she once was and that her delusions of being a gay man can never be realized, she will likely hate you. But there is a small, small chance she comes to her senses.

If you drift away from her, she will also learn to hate you for not taking on part of her self imposed burden.

Don't think you can avoid her growing to hate you by continuing to be her friend. Appeasement will not work. No matter how much you affirm her new beliefs, it could never be enough. She grow to hate you because you will have made too many mistakes, no matter how small, and so have failed in your job to maintain the delusion that she herself can't even truly believe.

I'm sorry if I sound grim or cruel. I don't mean to be. I just feel like I need to be honest about the situation you've been put in, because she certainly won't.

 

[Afinepickle]

Had a great friend for nearly ten years. Awesome dude. Went through a lot together and I considered him one of my closest friends.

Trooned out and almost immediately became an absolutely insufferable faggot but I bent over backwards to accommodate his insanity out of respect for the man...or what WAS a man. He ended up stabbing me in the back and trying to turn our friend group against me when he decided I was a million Hitlers for not wanting to play a game of D&D with an actual drooling from the mouth retard. Didn't work because the delusional moron didn't realize I was the only reason any of them tolerated him in the first place.

 

[The Great Chandler]

Thankfully I hadn't experienced anyone falling into this, but the mantra of "more woman than a real woman" is frustrating. Sure, I may be just another cis dude, but I follow by this personal belief:
There is no such thing as being more man than a man. Same applies with chicks.

It's just disturbing to see vulnerable people fall into this crap. Especially those who have both serious mental and emotional issues were critical thinking is often lost with them. I know it has been said a lot, but all I feel is pity. I'm only relieved that I hadn't fall into the troon cult, despite having possibly been a prime candidate for that.