Off-Topic Losing people to transgenderism support thread - Support group for trans widows and other people who lost loved ones to troonism

[Darkholme's Dungeon]

It's worse than that - after the initial push from adults to get it started, the kids are grooming each other now.

I have a young family member (pre-puberty age) who is currently getting sucked in to gender nonsense. The public schools aren't even the worst influences - they've had a few "Hooray For LGBTQ" sort of lessons but the teachers are surprisingly more level-headed than I'd expect.
The real issue is that there are a few problem children out there from genuinely abusive households, who proceed to act out (and spread) the sexual weirdness they're exposed to. And the rest of the children, having been programmed to encourage anything, will act as cheerleaders for all of it and amplify it rather than pushing back.
Worst of all - there doesn't seem to be one single environment for children free of these bad influences. You can't just say "change schools" or "quit this one after-school activity". As near as I can tell, the only solution would be moving to another state, homeschooling or carefully selecting a private school, and building up an entirely new social circle specifically geared toward raising children safely. For various reasons, it doesn't seem like this is going to happen and I can't make it happen for them.

Teach critical thinking skills, show them the data, and make sure they understand that agreement verbally doesn't mean you ACTUALLY agree. Also, teach them that there's a seperate wall between your life "outside" and life "inside" with family. I know my parrents did when I was younger because my parents emigrated from an authoritarian country so they have real experience with real repression.

Two questions for everyone. So I had the dreaded meeting with one today. Basically spoiled middle school child of a simp (?) father who's remarried a woman with three kids from previous marriages. Thankfully I don't live in the major city they live in, but my work forces me to come into contact with them. Like she basically is a hybrid between nonbinary,goth,furry, and twitter liberal.

Is it normal for the "demonkin" (I'm guessing nonbinary but I have no fucking idea what that means) to have the attention spam of a a fly and engage in weird ass shit like using permanent sharpie to draw doodles on themself?

Anything I should know aside from the usual to not piss her off? I don't have a social media presence but they already know me as the "no shit, jackass" type since I've generally kept my distance from her because everything just screams "future liability" in big red letters, but she keeps trying to latch onto me like an older brother.

 

[Baraadmirer]

Teach critical thinking skills, show them the data, and make sure they understand that agreement verbally doesn't mean you ACTUALLY agree. Also, teach them that there's a seperate wall between your life "outside" and life "inside" with family. I know my parrents did when I was younger because my parents emigrated from an authoritarian country so they have real experience with real repression.

Two questions for everyone. So I had the dreaded meeting with one today. Basically spoiled middle school child of a simp (?) father who's remarried a woman with three kids from previous marriages. Thankfully I don't live in the major city they live in, but my work forces me to come into contact with them. Like she basically is a hybrid between nonbinary,goth,furry, and twitter liberal.

Is it normal for the "demonkin" (I'm guessing nonbinary but I have no fucking idea what that means) to have the attention spam of a a fly and engage in weird ass shit like using permanent sharpie to draw doodles on themself?

Anything I should know aside from the usual to not piss her off? I don't have a social media presence but they already know me as the "no shit, jackass" type since I've generally kept my distance from her because everything just screams "future liability" in big red letters, but she keeps trying to latch onto me like an older brother.

What relationship do you have with this family? Work? Friend? For your first question, it's not extraordinary if <any>kin acts bizarrely. If you ask this girl why she doodles on herself it's likely she'll say something to the effect of "oh I'm just inscribing runes on myself to make accessing my demonic powers easier". Best thing I can suggest is staying polite but not entertaining or demonising (haha) her fantasies. How do her parents take to it?

 

[Larry David's Opera Cape]

It's worse than that - after the initial push from adults to get it started, the kids are grooming each other now.

I have a young family member (pre-puberty age) who is currently getting sucked in to gender nonsense. The public schools aren't even the worst influences - they've had a few "Hooray For LGBTQ" sort of lessons but the teachers are surprisingly more level-headed than I'd expect.
The real issue is that there are a few problem children out there from genuinely abusive households, who proceed to act out (and spread) the sexual weirdness they're exposed to. And the rest of the children, having been programmed to encourage anything, will act as cheerleaders for all of it and amplify it rather than pushing back.
Worst of all - there doesn't seem to be one single environment for children free of these bad influences. You can't just say "change schools" or "quit this one after-school activity". As near as I can tell, the only solution would be moving to another state, homeschooling or carefully selecting a private school, and building up an entirely new social circle specifically geared toward raising children safely. For various reasons, it doesn't seem like this is going to happen and I can't make it happen for them.

From experience, the first key is to be honest and frank with your kid- don't bombard them with information before you have to, but the minute it's time to have the discussion, lay it all out and don't sugarcoat it. You will end up with unfathomably based kids if you do this. Most kids simply want to be spoken to honestly and heard out. They will reward your earnestness and respect of them by rising to your expectations.

So you lay it all out very clearly: Xayden is a girl, she was a girl at the moment the egg and sperm met to make her and archeologists will dig up her bones and be able to say "female" decisively. It is not any more possible to become a boy or an "enby" than it is to become a dog or a unicorn. Here are the side effects of the meds. (Osteoporosis, breaking your back when you are 22, heart attacks and blood clots). Here is the reality of the surgery (never look realistic, always have pain and scarring, possibly worse). The troons are lying to you, kid, to try to get you involved in something that will hurt you.

The second key is to not hesitate about eliminating harmful influences. The second a friend "comes out" you have the discussion with your kid and then you say "because good evidence shows that these harmful ideas are as contagious as a cold, we are not going to be able to spend nearly as much time with Xayden as long as her family is enabling her wrong ideas and actions." You empathize- it's painful to lose a friend, sad to see a chum getting caught up in bad shit. But you don't flinch and you stand your ground. If you have been honest with your kid from day one, they will almost certainly back you up 100% in this and be more than willing to cooperate because they will see for themselves that Xayden is getting into trouble they don't want any part of. You wouldn't hesitate to be decisive if Xayden was cooking meth or turning tricks or plotting to shoot up the school. This is every bit as serious.

If the contagion spreads through a wider social group you may have to pull away from it. Kids can do just fine with very sparse and loose sets of social relationships. They don't have to be neck deep in their peer group- they shouldn't be, they should be centered in their family life. They can dip in casually to a homeschool group or club or whatever, and dip back out and be perfectly well-adjusted. They will make a few lasting friends who stick around and that's great.

Teach critical thinking skills, show them the data, and make sure they understand that agreement verbally doesn't mean you ACTUALLY agree. Also, teach them that there's a seperate wall between your life "outside" and life "inside" with family. I know my parrents did when I was younger because my parents emigrated from an authoritarian country so they have real experience with real repression.

Two questions for everyone. So I had the dreaded meeting with one today. Basically spoiled middle school child of a simp (?) father who's remarried a woman with three kids from previous marriages. Thankfully I don't live in the major city they live in, but my work forces me to come into contact with them. Like she basically is a hybrid between nonbinary,goth,furry, and twitter liberal.

Is it normal for the "demonkin" (I'm guessing nonbinary but I have no fucking idea what that means) to have the attention spam of a a fly and engage in weird ass shit like using permanent sharpie to draw doodles on themself?

Anything I should know aside from the usual to not piss her off? I don't have a social media presence but they already know me as the "no shit, jackass" type since I've generally kept my distance from her because everything just screams "future liability" in big red letters, but she keeps trying to latch onto me like an older brother.

Don't give attention to behaviors you don't intend to encourage, unless it's unavoidable (ie she starts wielding a knife and you have to stop her). At her age especially, she's engaging in outrageous behaviors to get attention. Ignore the sharpie. If she says something about her "identity" say oh ok that's interesting in the most blasé voice you can muster. Don't engage in discussion or ask curious questions, that rewards the behavior. Don't express emotions at all. Just be a pleasant boring businesslike grey rock. The poor kid is basically a cluster b personality disorder waiting to hatch.

 

[Kosher Dill]

The second key is to not hesitate about eliminating harmful influences.

Believe me, I've been lobbying for it. Problem is, I'm not either one of the parents in this situation so I don't have all that much of a say.
Of the two (divorced) parents, one knows there's a problem here and is trying to cut out the worst individual influences, and the other thinks everything is fine and is enabling it.
You can see this is bound to result in all kinds of games, the kid playing one authority figure against another, the parents turning it into an argument with each other, and so on.
All I can personally do, I guess, is try to be a good role model and someone they can come to for the facts.

 

[Larry David's Opera Cape]

Believe me, I've been lobbying for it. Problem is, I'm not either one of the parents in this situation so I don't have all that much of a say.
Of the two (divorced) parents, one knows there's a problem here and is trying to cut out the worst individual influences, and the other thinks everything is fine and is enabling it.
You can see this is bound to result in all kinds of games, the kid playing one authority figure against another, the parents turning it into an argument with each other, and so on.
All I can personally do, I guess, is try to be a good role model and someone they can come to for the facts.

Divorce culture is the evil running in the background of a lot of this. The groomers prey on kids from split up homes and these days they have a lot of quarry that way. Even the most got-it-together, peaceable, decent people I've seen try to do the every other week thing, or the his and hers brady bunch thing, ended up with kids who were notably more troubled than those from intact homes.

 

[Darkholme's Dungeon]

What relationship do you have with this family? Work? Friend? For your first question, it's not extraordinary if <any>kin acts bizarrely. If you ask this girl why she doodles on herself it's likely she'll say something to the effect of "oh I'm just inscribing runes on myself to make accessing my demonic powers easier". Best thing I can suggest is staying polite but not entertaining or demonising (haha) her fantasies. How do her parents take to it?

Work relationship.
The stepfather kinda weakly puts up resistance and the mother doesn't care. I do my best to ignore it since it's not my job to babysit other's children.

I am worried mainly because she hangs around their job (it's a small family company that I have to work with), and I'm really worried that she's going to accuse me of something I didn't do. Like I mean she's literally just following me around and trying to hug me at the waist type of behavior. Usually I don't ask about this shit, but after being an expat who came back when god emperor Trump (in jest) got elected, I feel like I don't recognize this country nor its people anymore.

@Larry David's Opera Cape
See above. I can't reply/quote to you, but I'm probably gonna try to change my schedule a bit to I can try to get my boss who's a woman to go instead. I have no desire to be accused of rape or something and try to fight off those false accusations.

Or am I just being paranoid? My parrents who are still abroad say I have nothing to worry about, insanity around me (in a deep south state no less where murdering fags and niggers was an actual thing in the 90s) makes me just want to go deeper into my 'tisim hobby other than the forums than interact with anyone younger than me.

 

[Larry David's Opera Cape]

Work relationship.
The stepfather kinda weakly puts up resistance and the mother doesn't care. I do my best to ignore it since it's not my job to babysit other's children.

I am worried mainly because she hangs around their job (it's a small family company that I have to work with), and I'm really worried that she's going to accuse me of something I didn't do. Like I mean she's literally just following me around and trying to hug me at the waist type of behavior. Usually I don't ask about this shit, but after being an expat who came back when god emperor Trump (in jest) got elected, I feel like I don't recognize this country nor its people anymore.

@Larry David's Opera Cape
See above. I can't reply/quote to you, but I'm probably gonna try to change my schedule a bit to I can try to get my boss who's a woman to go instead. I have no desire to be accused of rape or something and try to fight off those false accusations.

Or am I just being paranoid? My parrents who are still abroad say I have nothing to worry about, insanity around me (in a deep south state no less where murdering fags and niggers was an actual thing in the 90s) makes me just want to go deeper into my 'tisim hobby other than the forums than interact with anyone younger than me.

Maybe you are being paranoid, but not the bad kind. You just are aware of a potential threat. Now you have to take calm and sensible action to protect yourself. Getting a female colleague to go in your stead is a good idea. Otherwise, never being alone with this kid, ever. A hands off policy- played off as being such a stodgy old fart you're just not comfortable with kids, maybe- no hugs, no special attention. Being a little irascible and "too busy" to interact and again, grey rock policy.

 

[Darkholme's Dungeon]

Maybe you are being paranoid, but not the bad kind. You just are aware of a potential threat. Now you have to take calm and sensible action to protect yourself. Getting a female colleague to go in your stead is a good idea. Otherwise, never being alone with this kid, ever. A hands off policy- played off as being such a stodgy old fart you're just not comfortable with kids, maybe- no hugs, no special attention. Being a little irascible and "too busy" to interact and again, grey rock policy.

Unfortunately, we live in interesting times. Time to spend all my money on stockpiling food, fertilizer, and ammo for when the mass starvation hits I guess.

Spoiler: Offtopic

College wasn't much better, my field is agriculture related (I kinda saw the writing on the wall) and the two girls who had major crushes on me had some major issues. One was doped up on SSRIs and the other kept talking about how I should do shrooms. I hate this timeline. Not to mention the only people doing actual work for the professors as students were asian (me and another dude) or this older white guy who got tired of being an plumber.

Also this job market is 10/10 fucked too.

 

[A tree]

Another one down. Noticed a person calling themselves "caztor" commenting on lots of my old mates from my teens statuses. Clearly they know eveyrone I know and were at all the places I've been. Its taken me a while cos of face blindness but I'm 99% sure it's my friend Caroline "caz". A search no longer brings up their old social media.

Back in 1996 we were proud to be the only "thrash metal chicks" in our town. We wore combats, we headbanged to pantera and got in the pit with the boys. We smoked weed and drank beer and were fucking cool gender nonconforming young women.

Last time I was in touch with her on a fb account that got nuked we both had kids and she had joined la leche league and was working as a lactation counsellor and 100% pro woman radfem.


What the fuck happened Caz.

Now I see why my old mates have been posting handmaiden memes.


In other news "Lisa" my old school punk biker transwoman pal was remanded for 4 weeks and kept more or less in solitary which was shitty for them, but I have to say fair for gen pop.

On the plus side shes met another transwoman in jail and a romance seems to be blossoming. And I'm genuinely happy for her. I've no problem with someone being an AGP or whatever. There are clear reasons of childhood trauma here and she's not bothering anyone or trying to self insert into all female spaces.

We really need a specialist prison unit just for trans identified people for everyone's sake i think

Its like chalk and cheese the lives of these people. One cuts her hair short puts on a binder (I hope.....not to be a perv but caz was known for her large chest, i can see why she might have transed after a lifetime of men staring) and gets a lifetime of asspats. The other is knows she's a terminal wierdo and owns it and I'm cool with that.

 

[Fartificial Insmelligence]

@Larry David's Opera Cape

I agree with the majority of what you're saying, except for the shunning of Xayden. It absolutely needs to be done, for sure, but children (for the most part) don't think logically, they think emotionally. You can have an airtight case as to why they shouldn't be friends with a trans person, but their feelings will override it every time, and they'll go behind your back to see thier friend, and it will probably galvanize the relationship in an "us against the world" kind of way. The only alternative I can offer is supervised hangouts with you there, though those aren't ideal either...

 

[Larry David's Opera Cape]

@Larry David's Opera Cape

I agree with the majority of what you're saying, except for the shunning of Xayden. It absolutely needs to be done, for sure, but children (for the most part) don't think logically, they think emotionally. You can have an airtight case as to why they shouldn't be friends with a trans person, but their feelings will override it every time, and they'll go behind your back to see thier friend, and it will probably galvanize the relationship in an "us against the world" kind of way. The only alternative I can offer is supervised hangouts with you there, though those aren't ideal either...

Parents need to think of these kind of things as ant infestations. You close off the spots where the ants are getting in. I didn't say it would be easy or make you popular- it's what you have to do.

What you say is popular psychology but I haven't found it to check out irl so long as you have been raising the kid to be family and values oriented rather than turning them loose to be raised by peers/muh skewwl the whole time. Hard to turn it around once you've done the latter but check out works by shrink Gabor Mate for help. Also troons and queers tend to be poor friend material due to narcissism and other behavioral problems, once you've given the kid permission to cut them loose they may actually be relieved.

 

[jellygender]

But... gender ideology is so... contagious, for lack of a better word. Even people I know who love and admire trans people have observed that for young people, it's not cool just be 'cishet'. Trans = trendy, counterculture, rebellious and fun. Maybe it's dumb to try to shield my kid from this at all, when it's inevitable that all kids will encounter this movement.

It is contagious. PL: my "person lost to transgenderism" is a young adult in a mixed-sex IRL friend group. Almost all of them have transed, including him. Years ago the girls (now ftms) in the group started moaning about puberty being so uncomfortable (as if it's not that way for nearly everyone) and how awful men are (esp white men) so after years of stewing in that, surprise surprise, our male family member has now neuroticized and rejected his own sex too. It's clearly not only rejecting the idea of manhood, but also rejecting "cis" and het and white. Other gen-z young people we know were raised in the church – even homeschooled! – and have transed, while the Christian parents look on w/ a tight smile trying to be supportive by... totally playing along.

And at the end of the day, there is nothing subversive about it at all, so notions that the bluehairs & gender goblins have as to their own edginess are really quite sad. When their youth culture movement is endorsed by every major corporation and countless product lines available at your local Target, that says a lot. When the art scenes around any of these social movements are completely devoid of vitality bc everyone is too busy policing one another, that says a lot. It is all empty performance that is being juiced by corporate stakeholders who stand to profit from fractured, monetizable identities.

Very open-minded, rooted in values but not dogma.

It's a cultural sickness. It's infected the progressive & progressive-adjacent church in much the same way other aspects of social justice have. I think your description of your own congregation applies to a lot of the churches & groups that are playing along &/or actively encouraging this. As grannies across the world are fond of saying, "their minds are so open that their brains fell out!" The values axis does the devil's work in this too: kindness, acceptance, tolerance. Like, who can argue with that? So conveniently, love & kindness become a trojan horse for all kinds of toxicity. It's no coincidence that dogma is missing in your description, bc IMO that is what's keeping the conservative, orthodox, & fundamentalist churches in check on this. And I'm saying that as someone who, years ago, ran from the fundies like my hair was on fire.

As far as how to shield or not shield your kid, all I can say is "good luck" and follow your gut. We are navigating that right now too. We've shielded so far, but are planting thought seeds which hopefully will grow into future conversations. Introducing concepts like cults & social contagions, with historic examples. Mimesis and group think. How to be a producer and not just a consumer. We're just trying to get an age-appropriate scaffolding in place that we can use later to introduce present-day situations. Hoping to cultivate some based gen-alphas.

Seriously, all us parents trying to navigate this from a gender critical perspective need to form networks of support groups.

 

[Kuchipatchi]

I found out my Aiden cousin is saving up money for bottom surgery.
She's already dead to me but I dread when she kills herself, the family will be devastated and I've already processed her death when she came out as trans so I wouldn't cry a tear.
If I get dragged to her funeral, I'd just approach her coffin and whisper "I tried to warn you".

I'm 100% serious. I wouldn't even cry at her funeral, when I couldn't change her mind by saying "It's OK to be a masculine girl", I just gave up and she became dead to me so when she inevitably kills herself, it won't hurt.

 

[Free the Pedos]

I found out my Aiden cousin is saving up money for bottom surgery.
She's already dead to me but I dread when she kills herself, the family will be devastated and I've already processed her death when she came out as trans so I wouldn't cry a tear.
If I get dragged to her funeral, I'd just approach her coffin and whisper "I tried to warn you".

I'm 100% serious. I wouldn't even cry at her funeral, when I couldn't change her mind by saying "It's OK to be a masculine girl", I just gave up and she became dead to me so when she inevitably kills herself, it won't hurt.

It’s hard to feel bad for people who don’t care for themselves. I’m sorry for your family.

 

[Larry David's Opera Cape]

I found out my Aiden cousin is saving up money for bottom surgery.
She's already dead to me but I dread when she kills herself, the family will be devastated and I've already processed her death when she came out as trans so I wouldn't cry a tear.
If I get dragged to her funeral, I'd just approach her coffin and whisper "I tried to warn you".

I'm 100% serious. I wouldn't even cry at her funeral, when I couldn't change her mind by saying "It's OK to be a masculine girl", I just gave up and she became dead to me so when she inevitably kills herself, it won't hurt.

I lost someone as the culmination of decades of his self-destructive borderline suicidal behavior this year and that's how it went for me. I saw him in the hospital, comatose, and felt shock and disgust at the Absolute State he'd gotten himself into, but I couldn't feel sad. Mostly felt sad for my family members who had not seen this coming somehow. They took it hard.

The shock and disgust has caused a few sleepless nights though. Spare yourself the visuals if you possibly can.

 

[SwanSwanson]

Its a little telling how bad the trans ideology considering how common "destructively" transitioning is. As if its somehow joining a cult, were you sacrifice connections with own group in exchange to commit to this new group, and its now hard to return back to your regular group because of severed connections, and the fact that your new group would reject you.

 

[Florence]

So I made a post about a month back about how my cousin was getting sucked into the genderspecial cult and going by they/them. Well, today I (along with the rest of the family) got an email from him in which he announced that (surprise, surprise) he’s trans.

God damn it.

God fucking damn it.

 

[Ser Prize]

I found out my Aiden cousin is saving up money for bottom surgery.
She's already dead to me but I dread when she kills herself, the family will be devastated and I've already processed her death when she came out as trans so I wouldn't cry a tear.
If I get dragged to her funeral, I'd just approach her coffin and whisper "I tried to warn you".

I'm 100% serious. I wouldn't even cry at her funeral, when I couldn't change her mind by saying "It's OK to be a masculine girl", I just gave up and she became dead to me so when she inevitably kills herself, it won't hurt.

Kind of where I'm at with my sister. Which I hate, because I love my sister and so dearly wish it could be another way.

But people like her are easily influenced, I've learned. The doctor who carves her up is getting a shank for participating in this farse.

 

[smegma lover 69]

I am not female, so I can only guess at this, but what is it going on that is causing this to happen at such a high rate among girls and women, particularly lesbian ones? Do your cohorts hate themselves for being women, or is their some sort of inferiority complex tied to being "female" in their minds?

Sorry for a late response, but I felt like I wanted to interject with this. Powerlevel incoming as I'm a woman.

Going thru puberty as a biological girl is very difficult, as you feel constant insecurity and anxiety over your body becoming sexualized in the eyes of men (usually ones much older than you). It can be traumatizing for a lot of young girls, so they resort to wearing more baggy clothes or presenting more "masculine" to avoid it.

In general, feminine things (and being feminine) are seen as "weak". Liking pastel colors, wearing dresses, what have you. As some other people have mentioned, though, a lot of FtMs seem to thrive in being a man that is totally heckin valid for being feminine. It's a weird contradiction.

And the thing is, they don't understand how it feels for cis men to even be slightly less masculine and not only care about football and beer. Being called a sissy and faggot, being emasculated, is a serious thing that they don't or will never understand. If you have a high voice or wide hips, no one's going to judge you for reading yaoi or painting your nails.

I hope this makes sense.

 

[Mark Antony]

I'm in a pickle. See I have gained a friend after they transitioned and lost another when they trooned their way to the grave. I can also say, albeit anectodally, that people who want to transition in earnest are distinguishable from those that popped into it through grooming, fadding or peer pressure. The former just want to remake themselves in their own image or adjust their body to suit certain traits (androgynity, effete character or brutish beyond recourse.) More often than not their surgeries are benign and made to emphasise their existing traits as opposed to just butchering it all in one go. In fact many of them do not opt for bottom surgeries but instead bask in their newfound eccentricities. And you can kinda mock them without expecting a tirade in return, since they're all expressive or artistic kinda folk.

Now about the lost friend. Well, drugs killed him. But transitioning did him in. Cases like these feel like losing friends to a medically sanctioned cult that takes advantage by learning about their harrowing life experiences and/or history of mental illnesses, luring them with false promises of it all getting better and brainwashing them so seamlessly that by the time they transition they are deaf to all reason (and, worse yet, refuse to undergo other forms of treatment that could of actually helped their ailed faculties.) So the end result was a drug-addled, confused trans that became even more alienated from their surroundings and their own body, all the while easily labelling those that still tried to help them as bigots. The resulting pain made them triple down on drugs and, soon enough, they had overdosed. I'm not here for support since I find their ridicululous life and death funny. But I do wish to add my voice to those who blame current fads and medical trends for losing their loves. This whole trans craze is ridiculuous and reminds me of the 20th century's fascination with lobotomy. I hope its staunchest advocates die.