Off-Topic Losing people to transgenderism support thread - Support group for trans widows and other people who lost loved ones to troonism

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Oh, definitely. I had it better than most; I had a good role model that was traditionally and unabashedly masculine, even if teasing me about hot girls may have been embarrassing as a shy preteen boy.

But a lot of people don't have that; and what's worse, they've grown up in a world that is openly hostile to men and all things masculine. Even you ladies, though well intentioned, demonstrated part of that modern in-day bias of "men are slobbering rapists who look at all women like a piece of meat, making women ashamed of their bodies".

Let's say you're a boy coming into being a man. Do you really want above to be how people see you? Do you want to be automatically placed in "dirty raping man ape" ville for the rest of your life? I didn't, even though I had better conceptions of masculinity I was still scared of puberty. I used to cut my arm hair in the back of my class when I was 10 because I just didn't want that to happen to me.
Yeah... I mean, that makes sense. I'd argue that for both of us, it was society swinging to the extremes that was harmful... both in saying that all men had to become that thing, and in saying that all females had to become sexual whatevers. Both stereotypes stem from unfortunate realities that we can't totally ignore, but neither should define a gender and there should be better models that don't screw the kids up by making us feel like we're turning into monsters.
 
Yeah... I mean, that makes sense. I'd argue that for both of us, it was society swinging to the extremes that was harmful... both in saying that all men had to become that thing, and in saying that all females had to become sexual whatevers. Both stereotypes stem from unfortunate realities that we can't totally ignore, but neither should define a gender and there should be better models that don't screw the kids up by making us feel like we're turning into monsters.
I think a lot of people forget that, as scary and traumatizing puberty can be, it is overall very temporary. Once you become an adult and have a fully developed body, you're probably a lot less likely to have those same feelings you did as a teen. Most adult women will probably become fine with having a more mature body over time.

"Being a woman will get rid of your feelings of being an icky cis man" and "being a man will stop you from being objectified and sexualized" feel like permanent solutions to temporary problems.
 
Yeah... I mean, that makes sense. I'd argue that for both of us, it was society swinging to the extremes that was harmful... both in saying that all men had to become that thing, and in saying that all females had to become sexual whatevers. Both stereotypes stem from unfortunate realities that we can't totally ignore, but neither should define a gender and there should be better models that don't screw the kids up by making us feel like we're turning into monsters.
I think a lot of people forget that, as scary and traumatizing puberty can be, it is overall very temporary. Once you become an adult and have a fully developed body, you're probably a lot less likely to have those same feelings you did as a teen. Most adult women will probably become fine with having a more mature body over time.

"Being a woman will get rid of your feelings of being an icky cis man" and "being a man will stop you from being objectified and sexualized" feel like permanent solutions to temporary problems.
It's of my opinion that modern day hucksters go out of their way to stoke and inflame those fears and dreads, exploiting the super anxious in order to manipulate them.
 
I think a lot of people forget that, as scary and traumatizing puberty can be, it is overall very temporary. Once you become an adult and have a fully developed body, you're probably a lot less likely to have those same feelings you did as a teen. Most adult women will probably become fine with having a more mature body over time.

"Being a woman will get rid of your feelings of being an icky cis man" and "being a man will stop you from being objectified and sexualized" feel like permanent solutions to temporary problems.
I think hyper-sexualizing American society hurt, too. Girls at 13, 14 years old are still children in many ways, but they're pushed to start showing off their bodies immediately, start talking about or taking birth control, etc. The idea that kids should in any way be shepherded or protected through their juvenile years is just lost, so I can understand how a lot of girls would have a really strong negative reaction to the world as they start to physically mature.
 
What even is transgenderism? Some kinda schizophrenia offshoot?
It's a symptom coming from different types of mental illness. If it's not fetish related, it's simply the fact that they think if they change their body enough, they will be happy. This can come from depression, this can come from loneliness, this can come from trauma, and more things.

It starts off with that and then it goes into negative compulsive thoughts about their body. They always think their body isn't good enough. It's similar to body dysphoria in that way but it's being combined with their gender.

I found out my Aiden cousin is saving up money for bottom surgery.
She's already dead to me but I dread when she kills herself, the family will be devastated and I've already processed her death when she came out as trans so I wouldn't cry a tear.
If I get dragged to her funeral, I'd just approach her coffin and whisper "I tried to warn you".

I'm 100% serious. I wouldn't even cry at her funeral, when I couldn't change her mind by saying "It's OK to be a masculine girl", I just gave up and she became dead to me so when she inevitably kills herself, it won't hurt.
I know they're mentally ill but it's still quite puzzling to watch women get bottom surgery. It's going to fall off. It's not an "if", it's a "when". Eventually that arm fruit roll up is going to fall off and they might die from sepsis in the process.

The penis has ligaments that hold it up. It has circulation. A neo phallus lacks circulation and there are no ligaments holding the weight of it. It will always fall off.
 
I'm going to suggest that the views being expressed here are already very...tranny-ish.

I think a lot of people forget that, as scary and traumatizing puberty can be, it is overall very temporary. Once you become an adult and have a fully developed body, you're probably a lot less likely to have those same feelings you did as a teen. Most adult women will probably become fine with having a more mature body over time.

"Being a woman will get rid of your feelings of being an icky cis man" and "being a man will stop you from being objectified and sexualized" feel like permanent solutions to temporary problems.
Puberty is traumatizing? I don't understand, it happens totally automatically while you go about your business. I barely even remember the process, the only part I recall was figuring out beard trimming, and eventually realizing how sick it was that you can just stay a bit scruffy and people will think it's stylish.

Oh, definitely. I had it better than most; I had a good role model that was traditionally and unabashedly masculine, even if teasing me about hot girls may have been embarrassing as a shy preteen boy.

But a lot of people don't have that; and what's worse, they've grown up in a world that is openly hostile to men and all things masculine. Even you ladies, though well intentioned, demonstrated part of that modern in-day bias of "men are slobbering rapists who look at all women like a piece of meat, making women ashamed of their bodies".

Let's say you're a boy coming into being a man. Do you really want above to be how people see you? Do you want to be automatically placed in "dirty raping man ape" ville for the rest of your life? I didn't, even though I had better conceptions of masculinity I was still scared of puberty. I used to cut my arm hair in the back of my class when I was 10 because I just didn't want that to happen to me.
In real life women aren't really hostile to masculinity though, virtually ever.

The issue arises in respect to the internet especially, because everyone, but particularly lonely women, develop a sort of BPD-like pattern where they despise men right up until one they find charming gives them attention then suddenly he's the greatest thing since sliced bread. They're frustrated, insecure, and afraid of irrelevancy and abandonment. The culprit here is social fragmentation which makes people constantly stressed and constantly feel like they need to be defensive or they'll get taken advantage of and left behind.

And the role model thing has always seemed strange, like people are autistic aliens or something. What adults do is guide you towards trades, sports, etc, and through natural interaction with those avenues you start to realize you're taller, have certain logical traits, that you're stronger and have larger hands, etc. and you begin to identify your strengths and how to play to them in order to inhabit certain niches within your community and social group.

That's probably why in tech tranny shit is so prevalent, because it's a situation in which those natural strengths aren't ever going to manifest towards anything. You may as well be a floating brain.

I think hyper-sexualizing American society hurt, too. Girls at 13, 14 years old are still children in many ways, but they're pushed to start showing off their bodies immediately, start talking about or taking birth control, etc. The idea that kids should in any way be shepherded or protected through their juvenile years is just lost, so I can understand how a lot of girls would have a really strong negative reaction to the world as they start to physically mature.
In context where self actualization is stressed it isn't a problem. The issue is lack of opportunity for self actualization. In an absence of that people will revert to the highest possible avenue through which to gain a sense of control and acceptance; when community support and pursuit of attainment in things like arts, academics, and athletics aren't a major social theme then people will turn to unhealthy means to seek acceptance and exert control, such as sex, drugs, eating disorders, body obsession, etc.


The whole thing doesn't seem especially weird. I assume everyone already knows about the rat utopia experiments (if not read that or watch this more digestible video, you won't forget it) this isn't even unique to humans, even the specific pathological responses themselves aren't, and if even social rodents will fall to pieces in a situation where role fulfillment isn't available then what hope do a mentally intense species like humans have?
 
Some times I wonder why I even try fighting back. I'm just so tired. No one gives a shit either way. I'm just so tried of trying to do the right thing. I just want to go back to sleep. I'm just so tired of being alone.
I feel you, I would do anything to "unpeak". i wish I didn't care, I wish I stayed as a supporter of all things queer. This shit should be inconsequential to me.
 
I feel you, I would do anything to "unpeak". i wish I didn't care, I wish I stayed as a supporter of all things queer. This shit should be inconsequential to me.
It would not be a problem if the troons kept to themselves and did not try and evangelize their "movement" in regards to trying to convert people, especially children...and acted so casual about encouraging disfiguring elective surgery.

The same goes for sports...while MTF troons should stay out of women's events, in the interest of fairness they should be allowed to have their own trans-only leagues.

I would argue that compared to LGB people, troons are something else entirely, the former is a non-issue for me, but the latter and what it promotes is quite dysfunctional.
 
It can't have always been this way, so what changed? What is causing these girls to feel such overwhelming fear and loathing?
Puberty is hitting both men and women much earlier than it used to, and younger people are generally much worse at coping with changes to their body. Written records from as recently as the 1500s suggest women living at the time generally didn't get their first period until around 17/18.

Its a documented phenomenon, but scientists aren't sure what is causing puberty to occur earlier. Some speculate that modern diets or modern medicines are causing it by messing with hormones, but no one really knows for sure.
 
Some times I wonder why I even try fighting back. I'm just so tired. No one gives a shit either way. I'm just so tried of trying to do the right thing. I just want to go back to sleep. I'm just so tired of being alone.
You are tired because you are fighting against something with the implicit backing of the state.
Many a fool in the states believe that faith alone can conquer all.
Indeed, faith can move spiritual mountains, but can it move temporal ones?
One must act, to live in a better world.

Back on topic. Remember the cluster B little girl I had to deal with? Well, she went of on accusing one of her teachers of touching her.
That was fast.
 
So before I ask this question I want to make a distinction. There are two different things:

1. Men or boys who behave in a truly inappropriate, threatening, or violent way towards young girls. This includes rapists and pedos, and lower level sex offenders like flashers and gropers.

2. Clueless or jackass behavior from guys that isn't criminal, just annoying or uncomfortable. Bad pickup lines, staring, wolf whistling, smarmy compliments, whatever.

While taking for granted that women throughout time are obviously going to feel uncomfortable and threatened by Category One, do you think that the feminist rhetoric and public service announcements around Category 2 have made them feel more threatening and upsetting to impressionable young people today than they might have been in the past?

I was a kid during the Clarence Thomas hearings and I know that we talked about it at school, made awkward dumb jokes about it, and a lot of kids, in retrospect, were emotionally riled up and confused about what they were hearing. Same think with Lewinsky et al a few years later.

tl;dr maybe a dark horse contributor to the Making of Troons is all the heated rhetoric and "awareness" about how it's somehow life-threatening and akin to rape for a guy to say "heh nice shirt" and stare at your boobs.
 
So before I ask this question I want to make a distinction. There are two different things:

1. Men or boys who behave in a truly inappropriate, threatening, or violent way towards young girls. This includes rapists and pedos, and lower level sex offenders like flashers and gropers.

2. Clueless or jackass behavior from guys that isn't criminal, just annoying or uncomfortable. Bad pickup lines, staring, wolf whistling, smarmy compliments, whatever.

While taking for granted that women throughout time are obviously going to feel uncomfortable and threatened by Category One, do you think that the feminist rhetoric and public service announcements around Category 2 have made them feel more threatening and upsetting to impressionable young people today than they might have been in the past?
I think from a logical perspective that hasn't been poisoned with libfeminism, the second is something that can make a woman uncomfortable, but it's hardly seen as life-threatening. Catcalls alone aren't enough to assume that person is going to rape you. If the person is aggressive though, say if they're drunk and yelling obscenities at you, that becomes much more of a threat then some random incel fuckboy.

These men need to be spoken with, bluntly, to change their attitude. It's way easier for them to change and realize their behavior was wrong. The first category, however, are very unlikely to change, because it's due to being very deeply fucked up in their psyche. Even going to jail usually isn't enough for them to realize how harmful they are.

I wouldn't say I particularly feel sympathy for the fuckboys, but I at least believe that the way they act could be due to their upbringing.
 
I think from a logical perspective that hasn't been poisoned with libfeminism, the second is something that can make a woman uncomfortable, but it's hardly seen as life-threatening
The issue is the way that popular media conflates the two categories, castigating men (and terrorising women) over the behaviours in the second as if they're as dangerous as the first. Worse, conflating behaviours outside of these categories with the first, so you reach the point where entirely normal, non-sexual, non-violent, male behaviour is treated as "threatening" and tantamount to rape. Now there have been several generations of women who have been conditioned to view men, who are only being friendly in a way that would have been seen as entirely normal in the past, as "fuckboys" who are a "threat".
 
I think from a logical perspective that hasn't been poisoned with libfeminism, the second is something that can make a woman uncomfortable, but it's hardly seen as life-threatening. Catcalls alone aren't enough to assume that person is going to rape you. If the person is aggressive though, say if they're drunk and yelling obscenities at you, that becomes much more of a threat then some random incel fuckboy.

These men need to be spoken with, bluntly, to change their attitude. It's way easier for them to change and realize their behavior was wrong. The first category, however, are very unlikely to change, because it's due to being very deeply fucked up in their psyche. Even going to jail usually isn't enough for them to realize how harmful they are.

I wouldn't say I particularly feel sympathy for the fuckboys, but I at least believe that the way they act could be due to their upbringing.
What makes someone qualify as an 'incel fuckboy', is the question.
 
What makes someone qualify as an 'incel fuckboy', is the question.
I mean, I see it as someone who doesn't understand what boundaries are and constantly makes unwanted comments towards a woman's appearance. If you're a normal person, you're not gonna see someone with a pair of tits and feel the need to go "Hey, nice tits!" because it's inappropriate as hell. And these dudes usually don't think their attitude is a problem, and that women should be thankful for them being disgusting, instead of uncomfortable.

But I'm also gonna add that I don't think making these same crude, unwanted comments towards men is good either. People seem to think men can't be "objectified" like women can, so there's the assumption that there's no negative side effect of telling a dude you think he has a huge bulge. Both are equally shit.
 
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The issue is the way that popular media conflates the two categories, castigating men (and terrorising women) over the behaviours in the second as if they're as dangerous as the first. Worse, conflating behaviours outside of these categories with the first, so you reach the point where entirely normal, non-sexual, non-violent, male behaviour is treated as "threatening" and tantamount to rape. Now there have been several generations of women who have been conditioned to view men, who are only being friendly in a way that would have been seen as entirely normal in the past, as "fuckboys" who are a "threat".

Yeah this is what I mean. It gets so that cautious guys don't want to risk anything, and cautious gals believe everything other than being totally ignored is some kind of possible threat. Everyone is on edge and nothing is fun for anyone.

I mean, I see it as someone who doesn't understand what boundaries are and constantly makes unwanted comments towards a woman's appearance. If you're a normal person, you're not gonna see someone with a pair of tits and feel the need to go "Hey, nice tits!" because it's inappropriate as hell. And these dudes usually don't think their attitude is a problem, and that women should be thankful for them being disgusting, instead of uncomfortable.

But I'm also gonna add that I don't think making these same crude, unwanted comments towards men is good either. People seem to think men can't be "objectified" like women can, so there's the assumption that there's no negative side effect of telling a dude you think he has a huge bulge. Both are equally shit.
"Hey nice tits" is pretty easy to figure out as socially inappropriate. But there are a lot of far less obvious comments that get grouped together as icky creepy yucky and it can be hard for an inexperienced young fellow to navigate. Especially since we've gone so far to the side of "hashtag believe women" that even just a normal "hey wanna go out" kind of comment can get spun up as a harrowing incident of harassment if for whatever reason the young lady believes the chap is not supposed to be taking interest in her. Not that any one woman "owes it to him to explain nicely" or whatever the usual feminist objection would be. But just that when it gets that choppy out there in the interpersonal waters, it can have a broader chilling effect on relations between the sexes that trickles down into all kinds of societal unpleasantness. We're seeing that today.
 
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