Magic The Gathering

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The added bonus of getting into niche oldfag formats is you will inevitably meet people who have built cool cubes to draft, either fun theme stuff (mono-colored, era-specific, etc) or just straight up powered legacy. I have drafted with real power 9 cards (proxied lotus for sanity reasons) thanks to meeting dudes who've been around long enough to have bought them when they were <$200. Goooood vibes.
 
These are older-ish posts, but they kinda tied into why I hopped into this thread,

I think the simplest solution for WOTC to have their cake and eat it to was to really utilize the hell out of silver bordered cards. Any mechanically unique UB card (outside of those two IPs) is silver bordered. Reskins of existing cards can be black bordered since they're functionally WOTC-printed alters.

I'm curious if there was an actual effort to incorporate this UB stuff into MTG proper rather than just literally going 'LOL TRANSFORMERS' or whatever if it might be better received? The biggest issue I have with the UB stuff is that it clashes horribly with the game's overall aesthetic and I'm curious why people dislike this stuff and aren't "just don't ask questions just get excited for next product!"

What I mean by that, is, instead of Iron Man being literally straight from the MCU, it was the 1602 or something. Instead of the Transformers being straight from the 80s cartoon, Decepticons were Phyrexians with themed-in art? The Walking Dead shit was Innistrad (or whatever.)

It probably wouldn't sell well, but then I look at Funko Pops and how people have turned themselves into soy golems for those and, well, maybe?

You know Maro is crying into his Liliana Body Pillow that JD Vance is the Magic Player and not Kamala because he can't Grift "Cool Guy" points off the Chud VP.

I'm really out of the MTG loop and have been going through older sets I missed and was kinda surprised with Kaladesh.

Did Pajeets: the Expansion do well/was well received? And was the whole 'plucky resistance rising up against a tyrannical ruler' rebellion aspect of the second set make any references to Trump being elected? I know WotC's R&D are months ahead but Aether Revolt came out in 2017 so was wondering if that came up at all. Googling didn't provide any answers for me.
 
Did Pajeets: the Expansion do well/was well received? And was the whole 'plucky resistance rising up against a tyrannical ruler' rebellion aspect of the second set make any references to Trump being elected? I know WotC's R&D are months ahead but Aether Revolt came out in 2017 so was wondering if that came up at all. Googling didn't provide any answers for me.
Kaladesh and Aether revolt were meh, Energy was shit but the story would've been okay if there were no Gatewatch elements. There aren't any references to trump in the story either, Tezzeret has a mostly peaceful coup of the government with Baral goes along with since it benefits with and Dovin Baan kind of just gets caught up in, then the Gatewatch and the rebels kick Tezzert out of power but he already accomplished his goal.
Dovin Baan flees for some reason that not entirely clear to me, I think they just wanted him to work for Bolas in War of the Spark even if that's massively out of character for him. Dovin is the same person who arrests Baral once Chandra tricks Baral into confessing to murder of her father, and subsequently her framing for her parents death. Honestly I think they made the government too reasonable, Dovin goes out of his way to protect civilians and not involve them, and afterwards it's not like much changes aside from less strict laws on magic and a more free market economic policy, I can't even say the rebels are less corrupt since Gonti funded and aided them in exchange for government favors.
It was too close to the election for it to be really affected, sets start design 2~3 years in advance and have the cards designed once they're about a year away from release.
 
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Did Pajeets: the Expansion do well/was well received? And was the whole 'plucky resistance rising up against a tyrannical ruler' rebellion aspect of the second set make any references to Trump being elected? I know WotC's R&D are months ahead but Aether Revolt came out in 2017 so was wondering if that came up at all. Googling didn't provide any answers for me.
I can't really say how well the set was thought of at the time..but quite frankly Kaladesh was the worst designed of the small set blocks (yes it was worse than Battle for Zendikar, at least BFZs shit didn't destroy standard like energy did)

The Story was the same nonsense that everything else post...Return to Ravnica is, and the Irish Ginger Redhead Fire Mage..apparently came from a fucking Pajeet world somehow.

Edit : Oh and fucking Vehicles are a blight upon the game and any time a half decent one gets printed it becomes Miserable in Standard.
 
God, I forgot that Kaladesh was 2017. As someone who was playing standard at the time, it was fine? I was a scummy energy player, so i remember the era fondly when there are probably a lot of people who don't. I think the biggest issue was the set being one with lotto cards in it, meaning that it financially was fine for wizards but a lot of stores were not sold on it. I want to say i remember boxes being dirt cheap for a stretch there, just like BFZ was, which meant I opened a lot of it. Draft was mostly fine, there was some uncommon vehicle that was bonkers, but nothing really dominated. I agree though that the story involving the gatewatch was weird in retrospect, initially it was neat if only because superhero teams hadn't overstayed their welcome in the zeitgeist, but it makes no sense that Dovin would bring them in only to be the bad guy. I don't remember any politics in the stories (I was actually reading them at the time) beyond chandra getting all flirty with nissa at the end of one of them. even if the set was shit design, I think that the Masters sets that followed it very closely being as shitty (for the time) as they were are what people keep in their memory.
 
God, I forgot that Kaladesh was 2017. As someone who was playing standard at the time, it was fine? I was a scummy energy player, so i remember the era fondly when there are probably a lot of people who don't. I think the biggest issue was the set being one with lotto cards in it, meaning that it financially was fine for wizards but a lot of stores were not sold on it. I want to say i remember boxes being dirt cheap for a stretch there, just like BFZ was, which meant I opened a lot of it. Draft was mostly fine, there was some uncommon vehicle that was bonkers, but nothing really dominated. I agree though that the story involving the gatewatch was weird in retrospect, initially it was neat if only because superhero teams hadn't overstayed their welcome in the zeitgeist, but it makes no sense that Dovin would bring them in only to be the bad guy. I don't remember any politics in the stories (I was actually reading them at the time) beyond chandra getting all flirty with nissa at the end of one of them. even if the set was shit design, I think that the Masters sets that followed it very closely being as shitty (for the time) as they were are what people keep in their memory.
Kaladesh was released in 2016. Aether revolt came out in 2017. BFZ was the shit. I knew a guy who cracked a case and didn't get a single expedition which was hilarious. It was quite a let down after Khans though.
 
a single expedition which was hilarious. It was quite a let down after Khans though.
The Original Bonus Sheets, don't you love how people enjoyed those immensely..and the only complaint was that the Amonkhet/Hour ones were almost unreadable and WOTC's response to that was "WELL THEN WE JUST WON'T DO THEM THEN"
 
It was too close to the election for it to be really affected, sets start design 2~3 years in advance and have their cards designed once their about a year away from release.
Yeah, I figured R&D would be too far ahead, but a lot of the flavor text just kinda made me raise my eyebrow a bit. Maybe I'm just becoming more of a jaded cynic these days.

I can't really say how well the set was thought of at the time..but quite frankly Kaladesh was the worst designed of the small set blocks (yes it was worse than Battle for Zendikar, at least BFZs shit didn't destroy standard like energy did)

My loose understanding is that some criminal 'businessman' was colluding with Tezzeret (?), ostensibly to get Nicky B something, but it led to an 'oppressive' government that everyone had to revolt against because freedom depended on it.

Also, holy shit did quality take a nosedive around 2011-12 or so. Both with card art and stuff like flavor text.

There was a Dominaria card (I think) that had something like "Gideon may have lost his weapon in Amonkhet but he still knew how to punch a bad guy."

Nevermind, I found the card:


"On Amonkhet, Gideon lost both his sural and his faith in himself. But he can still throw a punch, and he still knows a bad guy when he sees one."

Trash that sounds like it came from a 1980s Saturday morning cartoon.
 
My loose understanding is that some criminal 'businessman' was colluding with Tezzeret (?), ostensibly to get Nicky B something, but it led to an 'oppressive' government that everyone had to revolt against because freedom depended on it.
Tezzeret being a SUPER DUPER ARTIFICER got picked as a Judge for a yearly Invention Fair..and just happened to trip over an artifact that Nicol Bolas needed for his invasion of Ravnica Plan.

Just very convenient that an Agent of Bolas was on the Plane when someone made the thing Bolas really needed for his plans.
 
I'm curious if there was an actual effort to incorporate this UB stuff into MTG proper rather than just literally going 'LOL TRANSFORMERS' or whatever if it might be better received? The biggest issue I have with the UB stuff is that it clashes horribly with the game's overall aesthetic and I'm curious why people dislike this stuff and aren't "just don't ask questions just get excited for next product!"
Possible but unlikely: Licensed vs. original IP aside I've found that UB has had issues with power level + mechanics that just don't feel like MtG. I would imagine that the latter problem will get worse as we move into IPs like SpongeBob that already don't fit neatly into Magic's generic fantasy setting.

To be fair, some of these problems are thanks to the FIRE design approach + decision to abandon blocks implemented in the late 2010s rather than UB specifically . . . but the solution here is to admit FIRE was a mistake and blocks were important for gameplay rather than doubling down on mistakes.

If WotC wanted tie-ins with other IPs without interfering with the game, what they did in Ikoria (make a regular set, then reprint a select handful of rares/mythics with no impact to gameplay but the name + art from the other IP) would have been a better compromise.

Edit to Add: For all its flaws at least the current UB setup at least makes it clear that these sets are not regular sets nor are they trying to be. Smoothing out the flavor issues would just make the mechanical + power level inconsistencies even more glaring.

Edit x2: The other, very simple thing WotC could have done would be to keep UB in its own format or formats separate from the regular game. UB metas would have been a blank slate so they could tailor things like power level as necessary and even experiment with things WotC swore off in regular sets but make perfect sense in a licensed product (the first one that comes to my mind is having disproportionately few or many cards in a given color like what happened in Torment).
 
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The Original Bonus Sheets, don't you love how people enjoyed those immensely..and the only complaint was that the Amonkhet/Hour ones were almost unreadable and WOTC's response to that was "WELL THEN WE JUST WON'T DO THEM THEN"
True, though it did give us Hazoret the Pervert
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The industrial revolution Kaladesh and its consequences have been disastrous to MtG.

Imo, Walking Ballista is one of the single biggest contributors (alongside the London mulligan) to every constructed format becoming a degenerate, 3-turn combo-fest (Thoracle being the final nail in that coffin). Not only is it automatically the best wincon for any big/infinite mana combo, it pulls triple duty as early game interaction, and (rarely) a mid-game threat, all for zero color investment. I fucking hate that card, and in my opinion it and the small Eldrazi (TKS, etc.) from the Zendikar set prior were the beginning of power creep accelerating to unacceptable levels.

Also fuck Smuggler's Copter.
 
I see it as logical. He was actively searching for the thing and decided to stick around on a plane with lots of technology.
That could have happened on any plane with technology though. Rashmi discovered it from scratch by pure accident.
 
That could have happened on any plane with technology though. Rashmi discovered it from scratch by pure accident.
Yeah, I think that's the thing that's bullshit about the plot. Bolas knew he'd need a planar portal back when he first set up Amonkhet to be a zombie supersoldier factory just after the events of Time Spiral block, but he also didn't have one and - as far as we know - wasn't actively trying to invent one. He just sort of sat around and waited for someone else to invent it, then sent his lackey in to steal it. Rashmi invented it at the time that she did because the plot dictated that Bolas needed a way to dump his zombies onto Ravnica to start Jacetice League: End Game, and Tezz found it right away because they only had two sets to work with and they had the whole 'heroic freedom fighters vs. evil fascists' plot to do too.
 
Yeah, I think that's the thing that's bullshit about the plot. Bolas knew he'd need a planar portal back when he first set up Amonkhet to be a zombie supersoldier factory just after the events of Time Spiral block, but he also didn't have one and - as far as we know - wasn't actively trying to invent one. He just sort of sat around and waited for someone else to invent it, then sent his lackey in to steal it. Rashmi invented it at the time that she did because the plot dictated that Bolas needed a way to dump his zombies onto Ravnica to start Jacetice League: End Game, and Tezz found it right away because they only had two sets to work with and they had the whole 'heroic freedom fighters vs. evil fascists' plot to do too.
What if what he wanted was impossible though? Bolas doesn't know everything. He had no idea that the multiverse would heal in the way it did after the rifts were closed. What if planar travel for non walkers/Eldrazi was literally impossible post mending. He just said fuck it and killed off the whole adult population of Amonkhet with what little of his old walker powers he had. Absolute retard.
 
He just sort of sat around and waited for someone else to invent it, then sent his lackey in to steal it.
He didn't even do that, Tezzeret was just THERE when it happened for no actual discernible reason. Rashmi wasn't famous or even trying to invent a Planar Bridge she did it by complete accident.

He had no idea that the multiverse would heal in the way it did after the rifts were closed. What if planar travel for non walkers/Eldrazi was literally impossible post mending. He just said fuck it and killed off the whole adult population of Amonkhet with what little of his old walker powers he had
It kind of gets even worse, if Lazotep is so useful...why hadn't Bolas subjugated that plane already?
 
That could have happened on any plane with technology though
We didn't have many planes with that degree technology at that point, I believe. And Bolas could've had more than one agent overseeing more than one plane. Kaladesh just got what's needed first. What works in its favor is that aether became a driving force of progress, instead of magic. Only certain people can use magic, but aether, being a universal power source, could be used by anyone. And the culture that formed around it incentivised constant invention and improvement of contraptions.

Damn. Look at me trying to make sense of modern MTG plot.
 
. And Bolas could've had more than one agent overseeing more than one plane.
It is Bolas, He (according to Himself in Legends 2) Rules several planes. He has no reason to spy on Random planes when he should have a plane with more Advanced Technology than Kaladesh when he could set up a Research plane run by someone more trustworthy than Tezzeret, and Kaladesh isn't THAT much further advanced than other planes.

Esper, Capenna, Kamigawa, Dominaria all have Technology on par with if not actually exceeding what Kaladesh has shown, and hell it is also incredibly lucky that Rashmi's bridge..also works like it does with Organic matter instead of the opposite, it would have been incredibly unfortunate for Bolas if his Immortal Robot Zombies couldn't be used because The Planar Bridge worked on Terminator Rules...
 
when he should have a plane with more Advanced Technology than Kaladesh when he could set up a Research plane run by someone more trustworthy than Tezzeret
Problem. He is cartoonishly evil. His idea of ruling is beating everyone over the head, sometimes just for lulz. It works well for simple tasks, but not for those where people supposed to think really hard. I would assume even somebody like he understands that.
They aren't exactly a scientific nation. what they do is graft funny magic metal onto themselves, so they can do more magic. They were being in the process of running out of it by the point when the Alara-imploding shart happened, which only complicated matters.
Capenna, Kamigawa
I don't think they had a concrete vision for both of these when Kaladesh was considered. Plus, I bet Bolas was still salty about Kamigava in particular.
Dominaria
Their entire technological advancements were based on digging up Thran shit. Their portal technology was developed for the pre-mending conditions and wouldn't have worked now, I assume.
it would have been incredibly unfortunate for Bolas if his Immortal Robot Zombies couldn't be used because The Planar Bridge worked on Terminator Rules...
There wouldn't really be a story in such case. In reality there could've been some amount of portal technology that did not worked to the specs and was thrown into the shredder alongside its creators. But this is not reality, and wizards were planning to get on with it.
 
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