Magic The Gathering

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Honka Honka Burning Love said:
You can complain about the specific starting point, but until Theros the format was fun as hell, I had a fun ass Dimir deck that was actually viable..mostly control with Thief of Sanity, Gonti Lord of Luxury and Scarab God as win conditions.
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Pioneer always looked like it come have been a fun format, but since it's beginning I've had my doubts about Wizards being able to manage it. The ban a week at the start of the format kept me away from it till the meta settled and that was around the time Lotus Breach and Inverter came to prominence. By that point I just wrote it off as Modern with worse interaction.
 
Fervent Champion said:
By that point I just wrote it off as Modern with worse interaction.
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it is, but it isn't supposed to be, the reasons bans came down so fast initially was because they were letting it be a wild west and culling the oppressive stuff. The problem came in that they didn't get rid of Dimir Inverter and Lotus Breach.
 
Honka Honka Burning Love said:
You can complain about the specific starting point, but until Theros the format was fun as hell, I had a fun ass Dimir deck that was actually viable..mostly control with Thief of Sanity, Gonti Lord of Luxury and Scarab God as win conditions.
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Like I said, it just seems like they're dancing around a return to standard/expanded again.

Pioneer seems like a more fitting name for the brawl format anyway.
 
I'd still prefer if wotc took a more proactive approach to unbanning cards instead of pushing really busted cards every set, having decks built around them dominate and then systemically banning cards from them.
 
Peep Plops said:
I'd still prefer if wotc took a more proactive approach to unbanning cards instead of pushing really busted cards every set, having decks built around them dominate and then systemically banning cards from them.
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It wouldn't help though, Splinter Twin would still be everything they banned it for..while being more powerful ((It would 100% splash white for T3feri))
 
Honka Honka Burning Love said:
it is, but it isn't supposed to be, the reasons bans came down so fast initially was because they were letting it be a wild west and culling the oppressive stuff. The problem came in that they didn't get rid of Dimir Inverter and Lotus Breach.
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The baffling part, to an outside observer, is the choice to keep Dig in the format. Like. It's cool that Inverter is seeing play as a card, because it's wacky and goofy. But it's way, way too consistent with Dig. Yeah, maybe Thassa's oracle is too strong for that effect and it should be limited to Jace (or a core reprint of lab man, say), but it would seem to me that you'd first just ban THE BROKEN CARD first and then see how things play out.
 
Rich Evans Apologist said:
The baffling part, to an outside observer, is the choice to keep Dig in the format. Like. It's cool that Inverter is seeing play as a card, because it's wacky and goofy. But it's way, way too consistent with Dig. Yeah, maybe Thassa's oracle is too strong for that effect and it should be limited to Jace (or a core reprint of lab man, say), but it would seem to me that you'd first just ban THE BROKEN CARD first and then see how things play out.
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DTT is strong as hell in every format it's legal in, why does Inverter get to keep it?
 
Rich Evans Apologist said:
The baffling part, to an outside observer, is the choice to keep Dig in the format. Like. It's cool that Inverter is seeing play as a card, because it's wacky and goofy. But it's way, way too consistent with Dig. Yeah, maybe Thassa's oracle is too strong for that effect and it should be limited to Jace (or a core reprint of lab man, say), but it would seem to me that you'd first just ban THE BROKEN CARD first and then see how things play out.
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DTT isn't the broken card, Thassa's Oracle is, without DTT the deck would just fall back on Treasure Cruise. Thassa's Oracle was a fucking mistake.
 
Honka Honka Burning Love said:
DTT isn't the broken card, Thassa's Oracle is, without DTT the deck would just fall back on Treasure Cruise. Thassa's Oracle was a fucking mistake.
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It also uses Jace instead of Thassa's, so it can continue to exist, just far less efficiently. Cruise is less efficient than Dig - though I'd argue a ban of one would also involve a ban of the other.

But really, all three of the cards - Cruise, Thassa, Dig - are pretty problematic in the long run. But would people be abandoning Pioneer in droves if DTT had been banned? "A good first step wizards, but that wasn't the problem" or something would be the response of people. The deck wouldn't be dead, but it would be at least marginally weaker. It being slightly less consistent might let the metagame shift. Maybe it would more clearly point to Oracle as the must-go.

Instead, they did essentially fuckall and people have no faith in the thing.
 
Rich Evans Apologist said:
It also uses Jace instead of Thassa's
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Jace is Answerable, Thassa is not outside of holding up a counterspell (or Stifle) due to it's ability to "win" even if your Devotion is 0, which is why Thassa has largely replaced Labman as an alt-win in these type of decks. The deck would be "weaker" with DTT and Cruise gone but it would still contain all the problems it has, you are just replacing DTT with something weaker, which might slow the deck down..but that isn't really a problem for this deck because it can still play the Mid-range game just fine.

The deck is basically splinter twin with a better color, in a format that has less tools to deal with a Splinter Twin Style combo.
 
Spoonge said:
Double Masters VIP packs are going to be sold for 115 dollars each.
Fuck regular whales, WotC is heading straight for the Leviathan like a demented Ahab
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But remember.

They don't account for the secondary market, Ignore the price hike in the set that we put Mana Crypt and Doubling Season in.
 
Honka Honka Burning Love said:
Jace is Answerable, Thassa is not outside of holding up a counterspell (or Stifle) due to it's ability to "win" even if your Devotion is 0, which is why Thassa has largely replaced Labman as an alt-win in these type of decks. The deck would be "weaker" with DTT and Cruise gone but it would still contain all the problems it has, you are just replacing DTT with something weaker, which might slow the deck down..but that isn't really a problem for this deck because it can still play the Mid-range game just fine.

The deck is basically splinter twin with a better color, in a format that has less tools to deal with a Splinter Twin Style combo.
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I mostly argue that, killing the delve cards, you might allow a nominally weaker version of the deck to face meaningful opposition from more than one deck -- and if it doesn't, then you can take the next step over and kill off Oracle. At least do -something- to cards that people have known are stupid strong since they were first printed in Khans.

Although in truth, my best-case solution is to errata Oracle to say "greater than," rather than "greater than or equal to." Still strong, still easy to win with, but at least you can't just ass-pull the way it works now.
 
Rich Evans Apologist said:
I mostly argue that, killing the delve cards, you might allow a nominally weaker version of the deck to face meaningful opposition from more than one deck
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It won't, the deck will just switch to Frantic Inventory and Cling to dust, Oracle is the card that needs to go. Putting an Alternate Win-con on a 2 mana Triggered ability was a mistake. The deck would probably be fine Without Thassa's Oracle (1UUU and a state based passive is a much higher bar than UU)
 
Jump Start is surprisingly fun.

So far I've built a:
Green creatures + green proliferate deck which I ran 2-0 before resigning. Plenty of low cost creatures that get turned into huge beasties by turn five with smart counter use.
White flying + white enchantment deck which I'm currently 1-1. Creatures are too high cost, but if you survive long enough you can build a big angel with lifelink that'll win you the game.
 
I'd like to get a box of jumpstart just to keep on hand for board game nights like smash up. (Heck I wish that was their "game night" product more than what they did.)

Although some things are apparently still fucked.
Screenshot_20200718-112051.jpg
 
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