Disaster "Mass casualty incident" declared after Key Bridge in Baltimore collapses

No article yet as this just happened, but could be big. One of the largest bridges in the world according to Wikipedia.

https://foxbaltimore.com/news/local/breaking-news-key-bridge-collapsed

 

[ForTheHoard]

Which in some ways might make the

That may make the turn even sharper, although not as jarring. If the anchor ends up following what is basically the same arc as the boat as it's dragged, the angle of the chain would be even closer to a perpendicular pull on the bow to starboard.

Like this:
View attachment 5862869

Edit for clarity:
View attachment 5862880

I'm left wondering what would have happened if they made no coarse corrections after initially losing power. Most of the engineers I've seen talk about it explain the turn into the pylon by a combination of port anchor and/or aft thrust. It seemed like making no correction would have had them pass under the bridge at a diagonal, but without the risk of hitting the bridge. What were the hazards of not turning? Leaving the lane and bottoming out? Hitting another ship? Were the other options worse than the possibility of the bridge collapse?

 

[Betonhaus]

I'm left wondering what would have happened if they made no coarse corrections after initially losing power. Most of the engineers I've seen talk about it explain the turn into the pylon by a combination of port anchor and/or aft thrust. It seemed like making no correction would have had them pass under the bridge at a diagonal, but without the risk of hitting the bridge. What were the hazards of not turning? Leaving the lane and bottoming out? Hitting another ship? Were the other options worse than the possibility of the bridge collapse?

To be fair if my boat lost power and I was heading towards a bridge I wouldn't be wondering if I can thread the needle while sitting on my thumbs as I'd be too busy trying to stop

 

[Drain Todger]

One thing I will say, just from experience, is that a lot of newer ships built from the 2010s onward have capacitive touchscreens in place of control panels with physical buttons for a lot of things. I fucking despise this trend. Usually, it's to implement bullshit, brainless software interlocks that keep you from manually turning equipment on and off, even in instances where you should, logically, be able to reset and power on a piece of equipment if it trips offline, at least to be able to test its functionality. Not so with the newer pieces of shit. You'll start that pump when the software allows you to, plebeian. You're totally cucked by software.

But that's not the main thing I hate about it. The thing is, engine rooms are very filthy places where motor oil, diesel soot, and iron filings end up everywhere, which may interfere with the touchscreen's ability to recognize your finger. Also, you have to take gloves off to use them unless they're special, fancy capacitive touch fingertip gloves, which is completely asinine. When you're working in an engine room, very often, you will be wearing doubled up latex gloves or Mechanix gloves, which precludes using a touchscreen.

Here's how operating equipment on an old boat with pushbutton controls goes:

1. Walk up to button.
2. Push it.
3. Success.

Here's how operating equipment on a new boat with bullshit capacitive touchscreens and nanny software goes:

1. Walk up to touchscreen.
2. Mash gloved finger into it absent-mindedly. No response.
3. Realize your mistake and take off your gloves.
4. Mash dirty fingers into touchscreen. Still doesn't respond.
5. Go to sink and wash hands with Gojo (or Boraxo, if old-school).
6. Come back to touchscreen. Tap it again. Realize that it's covered in a film of soot and oil and won't respond anyway.
7. Leave and grab a rag and a spray bottle full of glass cleaner.
8. Clean and dry touchscreen.
9. Tap finger on cleaned touchscreen. It finally responds. However, the software refuses to let you perform the operation you wanted because of some arbitrary setpoint in the program thinking it knows better than you whether the equipment should run or not.
10. Failure.

Give me a ship built in the 80s with all-manual pushbuttons and breakers over that bullshit any day.

The reason why I mention this is because I know for a fact that this sort of bullshit tech-fetishism on newer vessels has the potential to slow down emergency responses.

 

[Betonhaus]

One thing I will say, just from experience, is that a lot of newer ships built from the 2010s onward have capacitive touchscreens in place of control panels with physical buttons for a lot of things. I fucking despise this trend. Usually, it's to implement bullshit, brainless software interlocks that keep you from manually turning equipment on and off, even in instances where you should, logically, be able to reset and power on a piece of equipment if it trips offline, at least to be able to test its functionality. Not so with the newer pieces of shit. You'll start that pump when the software allows you to, plebeian. You're totally cucked by software

Didn't the US navy have a very embarrassing collision between two ships on a clear and calm day because people at multiple touchscreen controls were fighting over steering control and locking everyone out?

 

[1Tonka_Truck]

First section of the bridge was cut free around 20:00 local time

 

[Drain Todger]

Didn't the US navy have a very embarrassing collision between two ships on a clear and calm day because people at multiple touchscreen controls were fighting over steering control and locking everyone out?

As a matter of fact, yes, they did.

https://features.propublica.org/navy-uss-mccain-crash/navy-installed-touch-screen-steering-ten-sailors-paid-with-their-lives/

https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/11/20800111/us-navy-uss-john-s-mccain-crash-ntsb-report-touchscreen-mechanical-controls

I like the touchscreens on my phone and tablet. I don't like touchscreens in the wheelhouse or the engine room. They don't belong there.

 

[Snekposter]

I like the touchscreens on my phone and tablet. I don't like touchscreens in the wheelhouse or the engine room. They don't belong there.

I barely tolerate touchscreens on my phone. They're fiddly at the best of times, even in supermarkets. I can't wait until someone decides the scram button on a nuclear reactor can be replaced with a touchscreen and computer controls instead of the whole thing being a hardwired immediate control rod drop that bypasses everything else.

 

[ForTheHoard]

To be fair if my boat lost power and I was heading towards a bridge I wouldn't be wondering if I can thread the needle while sitting on my thumbs as I'd be too busy trying to stop

I wouldn't call a 1200ft gap "threading the needle," especially if you're already aimed at the middle. They didn't randomly drift into the bridge. Their decisions to drop anchor and change direction did.

 

[HTTP Error 404]

https://twitter.com/rawsalerts/status/1774214458698592394

Twice is a coincidence, right?

 

[King Vidiot]

Also, you have to take gloves off to use them unless they're special, fancy capacitive touch fingertip gloves, which is completely asinine. When you're working in an engine room, very often, you will be wearing doubled up latex gloves or Mechanix gloves, which precludes using a touchscreen.

As technology evolves, your tools need to evolve. Every mechanic should have pork sausage snacks on their toolbelt so they can use touchscreens without taking off their gloves.

 

[TheHarbinger]

One thing I will say, just from experience, is that a lot of newer ships built from the 2010s onward have capacitive touchscreens in place of control panels with physical buttons for a lot of things. I fucking despise this trend.

I've seen a few yachting accidents including collisions from reliance or forced implementation of touchscreens in place of manual controls. And quite a few collisions on military ships. You basically cannot get a new car in America that doesn't have a giant computer screen front and center. They should obviously be illegal because of how unreliable and outright useless they are.

 

[Car Won't Crank]

I've seen a few yachting accidents including collisions from reliance or forced implementation of touchscreens in place of manual controls. And quite a few collisions on military ships. You basically cannot get a new car in America that doesn't have a giant computer screen front and center. They should obviously be illegal because of how unreliable and outright useless they are.

The sharp glare from the screens at night is also a literal eyesore. BMW perfected the perfect interior night light color for buttons, dials, and LCD backlights. There's no need to change it up.

 

[Constellationzero]

View attachment 5864303

https://twitter.com/rawsalerts/status/1774214458698592394

Twice is a coincidence, right?

Tell 'em Large Barge sent ya!

 

[NoSpiceLife]

They probably have the manifest on a tablet so they can just search the container number. Even if we are dealing with HAZMAT cargo, that should be placarded.

I suppose they could be checking for smoldering contents or undeclared HAZMAT but most of that could have been done by air / sea or robots if they were really worried.

How about declared hazmat?

Seems to have passed people by, either that or they don't want to be accused of being a 'cooker' (stupid term seen on reddit for anti-gene therapy people).

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/03/26/us/baltimore-key-bridge-collapse-tuesday/index.html

Archive from 26th, is the only archive, information was added during a subsequent update.

The US Coast Guard is searching for potentially hazardous materials among damaged shipping containers that were on board the crashed vessel, according to a US government document obtained by CNN and a US official familiar with the matter.

Thirteen damaged containers, “some with Centers for Disease Control and Prevention [CDC] and/or hazardous materials [HAZMAT] contents” are being examined by an elite Coast Guard team, according to an unclassified memo from the federal Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency. The team is also examining the ship’s manifest to determine if any materials on board may pose a health risk, the official said.

 

[MadStan]

What are the chances of all the generators and engine dying to the same fuel issue at once?

I am not a ship autist, so if I am wrong, just yell at me.

But a large power outage could be something going fucky with the ship's electric grid?

Could just the main engine have an issue, and cause some sort of problrm in the electric system like melt fuses or poo?

If the fuel was contaminated then the chances other systems were using the same fuel is quite real.

But sometimes they use tanks that are loaded up separately too.

As a side note; some users have attempted to blame government mandated fuels as the cause but they do not cause engine failures like this; contaminated fuel = contaminated fuel and not government required fuel.

Also it is unwise to have ships run near empty as they can intake heavier elements stored at the bottom of their tanks that then run through the engine.

The crew may or may not have been aware of contaminated or “diluted for profit” fuels being pumped in; but there is a comment from a dock loader who noted flickering at the dock (if this report is true) which would have alerted the Captain to something being wrong and a failure to investigate .

 

[Cougar Pump]

View attachment 5864303

https://twitter.com/rawsalerts/status/1774214458698592394

Twice is a coincidence, right?

Just the news cycle amplifying something which happens all the time, and normally doesn't get reported widely. Bridge collisions are very frequent, and bridge collapses from them are a bit rarer but still kinda common.

"In the period from 1960 to 2015, there have been 35 major bridge collapses worldwide due to ship or barge collision with a total loss of life of 342 people"
"A United States Coast Guard (USCG) study of towing vessels and barge collisions with bridges located on the U.S. inland waterway system during the 10-year period from 1992 to 2001 revealed that there were 2,692 accidents with bridges (USCG 2003). Only 61 of these caused bridge damage in excess of US$500,000 (1,702 caused very minor damage with no repair costs to the bridge), and none resultedin fatalities."
Ship and Barge Collisions With Bridges Over Navigable Waterways - 2018

35 collapses in 55 years, or one about every 18 months globally. But if you're looking at bridge collisions events, in the US alone, hundreds every year so you could report on at least a couple every week if you wanted.

 

[Cpt. Stud Beefpile]

One thing I will say, just from experience, is that a lot of newer ships built from the 2010s onward have capacitive touchscreens in place of control panels with physical buttons for a lot of things. I fucking despise this trend. Usually, it's to implement bullshit, brainless software interlocks that keep you from manually turning equipment on and off, even in instances where you should, logically, be able to reset and power on a piece of equipment if it trips offline, at least to be able to test its functionality. Not so with the newer pieces of shit. You'll start that pump when the software allows you to, plebeian. You're totally cucked by software

I was literally just wondering if this might have contributed.

It is as I suspected: the Jurassic Park problem. Overengineered and overcomplicated, overdependent on uninterrupted power flow and shit will go south the MINUTE the lights go out.

 

[teriyakiburns]

https://features.propublica.org/nav...n-steering-ten-sailors-paid-with-their-lives/
https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/11/...h-ntsb-report-touchscreen-mechanical-controls
I like the touchscreens on my phone and tablet. I don't like touchscreens in the wheelhouse or the engine room. They don't belong there.

Of course it was the USS fucking John McCain. Not content with how many he got in life, he reached out to kill even more from beyond the grave.

e: I'm just at the part of the pro publica article that describes some of the flaws in the IBNS and I find myself wondering just who the fuck wrote this software.

 

[AnotherPleb]

I'm just at the part of the pro publica article that describes some of the flaws in the IBNS and I find myself wondering just who the fuck wrote this software.

The lowest bidder possible.

 

[Corpun]

When all is said and done who ultimately gets the blame. I assume the pajeet captain will be the designated fall guy, one of the shell companies operating this ship gets a random fine for operating the vessel without following regulations, and nothing ever happens to the actual people at fault for this.

International shipping is absolute monster to prosecute legally so I really can't blame them. All these container ships have all sorts of dubious legal ownership to unravel.