Mass Effect General Thread

[Absolute Ego Dance]

That DLC SMG was also my favorite weapon overall so I did her mission as soon as possible every time. Geth shotgun was fun too.

Its the only SMG that's remotely usable at distances other than "right in the enemy's face", that's why.

I've really, really enjoyed this channel's work recently. It's quite well done, there are a lot of bizarre plot twists in the narratives. If you like this kind of slop, I recommend you start from the beginning. Edit: of their mass effect 1 series. Their tierlists are also quite good if you haven't seen them.

Regardless and to the point: the Locust is one of those weapons that I particularly despise, largely because on Adept, Sentinel and Enginer you're stuck with it for the first half of the game

 

[Rockzo]

I got 3 things.

1. Before he died in 2022, former Escapist writer Shamus Young wrote an entire retrospective of the series in multiple articles. He even had Mr BTounge on his site, who's ME3 vid was the one to explain the ending to me back in the day.

2. There's a highlight here from Andromeda writeup in 2019
"Over the last 10 years there’s been an incredible turnover in the leadership of BioWare. The old guard is gone, and that old guard is what gave the company its identity. Yes, I’m sure there are many bright minds and talented creative people at BioWare. In fact, I know there must be. There are some genuinely endearing moments and spectacular visuals in Andromeda, and those things are obviously the product of talent and hard work. But a handful of brilliant artists can’t change the direction of a company any more than a footsoldier can make changes to foreign policy."

There's also this one about other RPG games that Shamus didn't get to see:
"It’s not like the genre is without hope. We’ve even got some AAA games to look forward to. We’ve got The Outer Worlds from the folks at Obsidian. Bethesda is working on Starfield. I know Cyberpunk isn’t the same as Trek-flavored sci-fi, but if you’re into worldbuilding then Cyberpunk 2077 is looking really good. I’m not crazy about Ubisoft these days, but they’ve apparently got some sort of sci-fi project called Pioneer in the works. They’ve also got Beyond Good and Evil 2 in development if you like your sci-fi to be less nerdy Trek and more campy Fifth Element. BioWare might be done telling stories and building worlds, but games with science fiction storytelling will continue to exist."

3. The ME3 endings sucks. So much so that one fan wrote a 539 page document called ME:Vindication going over everything and just venting his frustration. There's also something called Remix which I must have missed.

 

[jeff7989]

I remember watching a video of youtuber dissecting ME3 lore from data logs and showing how pozzed it was.
For example: all humans are mutts, there are not white people left, so they get plastic surgeries to look more like Europeans.
Anyone recalls such video? It proves that Bioware was already infiltrated back then.

 

[>IMPLYING]

I remember watching a video of youtuber dissecting ME3 lore from data logs and showing how pozzed it was.
For example: all humans are mutts, there are not white people left, so they get plastic surgeries to look more like Europeans.
Anyone recalls such video? It proves that Bioware was already infiltrated back then.

Unsure but by the sounds of it, it's probably American Krogan.
Edit: I responded to such criticism in another thread, the 'there's no white people' claim just doesn't exist in-game.

 

[Anon88]

I remember watching a video of youtuber dissecting ME3 lore from data logs and showing how pozzed it was.
For example: all humans are mutts, there are not white people left, so they get plastic surgeries to look more like Europeans.
Anyone recalls such video? It proves that Bioware was already infiltrated back then.

That's not a mass effect three thing. As early as Revelation which came out before the first game they talked about how everyone was mixed raced. Back then it was kind of a weird take as most people in the first game just look like white people.

 

[>IMPLYING]

That's not a mass effect three thing. As early as Revelation which came out before the first game they talked about how everyone was mixed raced. Back then it was kind of a weird take as most people in the first game just look like white people.

I spoke on this subject in the dragon age thread but stuff established in external materials should be disregarded pretty much completely by both the players and even the devs themselves when making the game. There's nothing in the actual games indicating a racial homogeneity it since you meet all colours. Even though Revelation came out 3 years before Mass Effect 2, which would give them plenty of time to brown up everyone, but they didn't implement the concept. Books outside of the game itself are usually the origin of shit concepts that the authors don't realise reeks until it makes its way in-game. The example I have in the dragon age thread was Sam Maggs and her attempt to lesbify Cal's love interest in Star Wars Jedi Survivor, but Mass Effect is also an example of this since Kai Leng made his first appearance in tie-in comics and Mass Effect Deception. Honorary mention to the Halo franchise after Reach.

 

[capitalBBustard]

stuff established in external materials should be disregarded pretty much completely by both the players and even the devs themselves when making the game.

The "external materials" in question were literally written by the lead writer of the first game bro.

 

[Breadquanda.]

Bethesda is working on Starfield. I know Cyberpunk isn’t the same as Trek-flavored sci-fi, but if you’re into worldbuilding then Cyberpunk 2077 is looking really good.

Damn. They really let him down, didn't they?

 

[>IMPLYING]

The "external materials" in question were literally written by the lead writer of the first game bro.

Doesn't matter who wrote them. External materials are still external materials. Nothing from the books has any bearing on the games themselves, and when they do influence the games, it negatively impacts them.
1. Anderson inexplicably off the council in Mass Effect 3 - him stepping down occurred in a book and isn't elaborated or explained in-game.
2. Kai Leng - Gary Stu introduced in books and comics, thwarts being killed by Shepard twice (Commander, the lights on the gunship are too bright! ;((( ) and kills fan favourite Thane, also escaping off the Citadel somehow despite it being on high alert and being protected by several ships
3. Shepard's body being recovered - explained in a comic, which also alters Liara's personality into being the most devout of Shepard's crew above Kaiden/Ashley, Garrus, Wrex, Tali I.E. everyone who was with Shepard before her whilst also making her into a nigh untouchable genius capable of hunting down the shadow broker. (This isn't written by Drew but it's still dumb)
4. Cerberus becoming irredeemable and retarded - Mass Effect Retribution renders player choice moot as Cerberus are able to salvage the destroyed collector base and acquire their tech anyhow.

 

[capitalBBustard]

Doesn't matter who wrote them.

It literally does. Don't be a cretin. Lead writer of Mass Effect 1 means this is stuff from basically the creator of the series. Not some literalwho or a retard that got promoted (*cough* Mac *cough*)

Nothing from the books has any bearing on the games themselves,

Illusive Man was introduced in a book years before the 2nd game.
Your entire spiel is randomly seething about shit writing in the 3rd game and then blaming the books that have fuckall to do with that. Wrong end of the stick there buddy.
Karpyshyn left midway through 2 and Mac Walters replaced him, which is when the wheels started to fall off for the series. He's the one that wrote the comic you're seething about.

Edit: Fuck, the first book came out months before the first game. This entire tangent is retarded. The Karpyshyn books are about as legit as tie-in materials get for sth like this. You're free to shit on them as books, but they're not incongruous with the first game, unlike the 3rd game and (in)arguably the 2nd.

 

[augment]

Karpyshyn drops a cute line in ME: Ascension about how Kahlee thinks about humans on Earth being mostly shades of tan from generations of interracial mixing. She also points out it's ultimately a moot point, seeing as how commonplace hair dyes and contact lenses are. She then contrasts this with other alien species who, mostly, all look alike (a tongue in cheek approach to handwave the limitations to having to render NPCs in game, individually) Mordin references this on his loyalty mission on ME2.

 

[Ensok]

I've really, really enjoyed this channel's work recently. It's quite well done, there are a lot of bizarre plot twists in the narratives. If you like this kind of slop, I recommend you start from the beginning. Edit: of their mass effect 1 series. Their tierlists are also quite good if you haven't seen them.

Regardless and to the point: the Locust is one of those weapons that I particularly despise, largely because on Adept, Sentinel and Enginer you're stuck with it for the first half of the game

Yeah Presidents Play Mass Effect is a pretty good series, though a lot of it I kind of just listen to as background noise (which is something he even made a joke about in a recent video). It's still pretty fun.

 

[Anon88]

I like the books they have some value when it comes to world building. They go much farther into stuff like the first contact war and the way Quarians live then the games ever do. They don't really overlap enough to effect each other in my opinion at best they just vaguely reference each other from time to time.

 

[>IMPLYING]

It literally does. Don't be a cretin. Lead writer of Mass Effect 1 means this is stuff from basically the creator of the series. Not some literalwho or a retard that got promoted (*cough* Mac *cough*)

Illusive Man was introduced in a book years before the 2nd game.
Your entire spiel is randomly seething about shit writing in the 3rd game and then blaming the books that have fuckall to do with that. Wrong end of the stick there buddy.
Karpyshyn left midway through 2 and Mac Walters replaced him, which is when the wheels started to fall off for the series. He's the one that wrote the comic you're seething about.

Edit: Fuck, the first book came out months before the first game. This entire tangent is retarded. The Karpyshyn books are about as legit as tie-in materials get for sth like this. You're free to shit on them as books, but they're not incongruous with the first game, unlike the 3rd game and (in)arguably the 2nd.

You're not understanding the point. It doesn't matter who wrote the material, otherwise shit like Marc Laidlaw's Epistle 3 would be regarded as the canon ending to half-life.

External materials shouldn't be required reading to understand plot decisions in-game, nor should their depiction of the world be acknowledged since they may as well occupy a separate continuity from the games themselves. Karpyshyn writing novels, then putting content from those novels into the games without sufficient enough explanation to the player is retarded. The Illusive man and the collectors were introduced as concepts in the novels, sure, but their introduction in-game is to an audience who very probably didn't read those books in contrast to plot points in-game which aren't explained at all.

The points I harped on regarding novel details and their impact on game is that their presence occurs without any justification or explanation to the player, at most, Liara tells you she gave Shepard's body to Cerberus but the 'how' isn't elaborated on nor her character shift from 1. Kai Leng's prominence despite being a non-character because his characterisation is in a novel, Anderson's stepping down and zero-explanation is because it's in a novel, and so on and so forth. The presence of these external materials being canon/required reading had a negative impact on the story of the game, but it's especially bad in the 3rd game because the plots of those novels can't just be relegated to a throw away line in the 'investigate' portion of the dialogue tree (Cerberus and the quarians, how ceberus got Shepard's body, Miranda and Jacob's relationship with Ish and Omega, etcetera. Minor plot things that don't require you going out of your own way to understand.)

 

[capitalBBustard]

You're not understanding the point.

Yes I do. You're the one that doesn't understand that your blanket raging about "outside material is not canon" with increasingly retarded strawmen in no way actually refutes my point. Which is that in this specific instance, the lead writer for the game we are talking about wrote these books at the same time he wrote the games, making them inarguably faithful to his own writing in the game. And that trying to disregard it not on authority of the source or quality of the work but nonsensical shit like muh epistle 3 is dumb as fuck.

At no point did I even try to argue that people should be forced to read the books. All I said was that the books provided certain context that is not necessarily conveyed in the games but was the intent of the LEAD WRITER of the game at the time. (And this basically amounted to trivia) Guess what? Shit like that happens even within the game itself. The Citadel space battle cutscenes have ships firing missiles instead of lazers, contradicting the codex in the game. Reason? The animators fucked up and it was too late to change it.

 

[Snekposter]

if you’re into worldbuilding then Cyberpunk 2077 is looking really good

Ironically the worldbuilding is maybe the only thing that was actually solid on release. Euros may frequently struggle to make an engaging game, but setting up the world? The Necromunda and Deathwing shooters were magnificently grimdark in a way the USA struggles with.

 

[>IMPLYING]

Yes I do. You're the one that doesn't understand that your blanket raging about "outside material is not canon" with increasingly retarded strawmen in no way actually refutes my point. Which is that in this specific instance, the lead writer for the game we are talking about wrote these books at the same time he wrote the games, making them inarguably faithful to his own writing in the game. And that trying to disregard it not on authority of the source or quality of the work but nonsensical shit like muh epistle 3 is dumb as fuck.

At no point did I even try to argue that people should be forced to read the books. All I said was that the books provided certain context that is not necessarily conveyed in the games but was the intent of the LEAD WRITER of the game at the time. (And this basically amounted to trivia) Guess what? Shit like that happens even within the game itself. The Citadel space battle cutscenes have ships firing missiles instead of lazers, contradicting the codex in the game. Reason? The animators fucked up and it was too late to change it.

I understand where you're coming from but I still think the development of the games shouldn't consider the events of what occurs within novels outside of maybe a minor reference here and there. Karpyshyn left partway through the 2nd game's development, yet since the novels are canon, he wrote a novel that forced into canon several player contradictory details that the were forced into the 3rd game despite not actually working on that game himself. I'll just summarise my argument into easy to read bullet points so hopefully you can actually understand my stance.

1. External materials shouldn't have a bearing or influence a game's plot
2. It doesn't matter who produced said materials
3. It's better for the devs and the writer's of the materials to just ignore each other as not to step on each other's toes (Karpyshyn effectively ignored the games to create several plot points and lore details after the prequel novel I.E. salvaged collector base, non-councillor Udina, homogenous humanity, etcetera)*
4. External material can show up in the game, but the plot shouldn't be contingent on it.*2
5. Worldbuilding can be delegated to external materials, but shouldn't be relied on to fill the blanks of what's revealed to the player in-game. (Good example: Halo pre-343. Bad example: Halo post-343)

*There's a difference between Anderson's mission with Saren, which is in the prequel book and easy to condense into a few lines of dialogue you can ignore as opposed to Cerberus acquiring reaper tech and Anderson stepping down as councillor which both have to happen to facilitate the plot of 3 and both occurring within books whilst ignoring player decisions to enable it.

* To elaborate, without the prequel novel, Saren can still hate humanity and can still encounter sovereign - the plot isn't dependent on his mission with Anderson. In 3 the Illusive man can't salvage a destroyed base and Anderson can't not be a councillor without context from the books, both of which require ignoring player choice to faciliate. Both of these are also required to make the plot of 3 work, as the Cerberus attack on the citadel as well as their massive numbers (Udina gave them access which requires Anderson out of the picture and their mass conscription via reaper implants at Sanctuary) are both justified within the novel released between 2 and 3. Without Cerberus being a threat, there's no reason to dedicate a large portion of the fleet to attack their base which in turn loses the Citadel, which then leads to the all or nothing gambit at the end of the game.

 

[Absolute Ego Dance]

Yeah Presidents Play Mass Effect is a pretty good series, though a lot of it I kind of just listen to as background noise (which is something he even made a joke about in a recent video). It's still pretty fun.

Genuinely comfy kino to listen to in the background. Cycle this, cycle that, why don't you cycle yourself into the club and pick up some women, Sovereign.

 

[WTBOnlineFather]

Anderson stepping down as councillor

Tbf this particular point doesn't need any explanation. Anderson never wanted to be a councillor, he's a good soldier and strategist but he's bad at politics. If you choose to make him councillor rather than Udina he accepts but feels awkward on the job and isn't well liked by his fellow councillors either because they can't stand him talking about the Reapers. It doesn't take a genius to figure out why Udina ends up councillor either way in ME3.

 

[>IMPLYING]

Tbf this particular point doesn't need any explanation. Anderson never wanted to be a councillor, he's a good soldier and strategist but he's bad at politics. If you choose to make him councillor rather than Udina he accepts but feels awkward on the job and isn't well liked by his fellow councillors either because they can't stand him talking about the Reapers. It doesn't take a genius to figure out why Udina ends up councillor either way in ME3.

It makes sense he wouldn't want to the job, and he makes it evidently clear when you choose him in 1 and his complaining in 2, but there's two issues with it from the perspective of a player. 1: There's no gameplay consequence of him being selected councillor in 1 and carrying that decision all the way to 3, making it a pointless choice ultimately. He does fast track you becoming a spectre again in 2 but it doesn't carry much gameplay consequence. 2: We aren't given an explanation of why he stepped down, nor is it acknowledged in-game. The reason he stepped down is so he could take an active role in the plot of a book, saving the woman you do eventually meet during the Grissom Academy mission in ME3, Kahlee Sanders. This is a plot point which is contingent on a book for the answer, which is my primary issue.