Mass Effect General Thread

[ShadowAngel785]

like Wrex putting an ice pack on his dick after all the Krogan sex he had to do.

Nearly makes me wanna play it and let Wrex live. but i can't because sabotaging the cure to doom the space muslims is the only logical choice in my mind and you get to kill that annoying cunt mordin on top.

 

[Glory To Arztotska]

Gotta say, first time I've heard anyone say they hate Mordin.

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

Chambers having a decent chance to literally be getting fucked by a varren is symptomatic of Bioware undermining their dramatic characters for no real reason. Just like Miranda being a gigaslut that trawls dating sites for random motel hookups.

Miranda is repeating what her father did to her by looking for a "perfect" match, only to find out that relationships aren't logic puzzles and that she's infertile. It's supposed to be sad and she can't settle down because she's so dedicated to Cerberus. At least, that's how I read it.

Romance scenes make Harlequin novels sound like Shakespeare. There's clearly a lack of skill in writing seductive characters, I mean, take for example Morinth: she's supposedly supernaturally seductive and charming, but her writing is.... plain. Compare and contrast to, dunnow. Jeanette Voerman from Bloodlines, where the combo of excellent facial animation/model quality and snappy writing makes for a quite interesting seductress.

Morinth had a few issues, all of them due to design. Had Morinth been a random encounter and then Samara came in having used you as convenient bait, or if Morinth was the dossier rather than Samara, it might have made the decision more interesting and forced the writers to make her less bland. Also, other than some writing, she's a carbon copy of Samara in terms of abilities and code. I think the writers expected most players to choose Samara, since Morinth is a literal predator, and didn't think much in terms of developing her as a character.

While we're on the subject: who's the best romance and who's the best buddy? Or both. Garrus is a top tier squaddie, but I feel like he gets a little too Batman-ish in ME2. Zaeed really steals the spotlight in ME2. For romance, I usually like Liara (which isn't even fair because the developers clearly favored her), but her character shift from ME1 to ME2 is very interesting. I remember there were very dedicated Talimancers back in the day.

With all three games in mind, I can understand people picking other options. Ashley is pretty wonky in ME1 and Liara is a fucking dork.

 

[Prophetic Spirit]

With all three games in mind, I can understand people picking other options. Ashley is pretty wonky in ME1 and Liara is a fucking dork

Always between in a Paragon run Liara/Tali(but just in the end)/Liara.
The Renegade one was always Ashley/Miranda(or Jack)/Ashley.
I'm always taking male shep 'cus i'm not gay unlike all the femshep likers.

 

[RSU 1741]

but her character shift from ME1 to ME2 is very interesting

I would not call it interesting. It's schizophrenic. Let's ignore for a moment that Liara is constantly thrown in your face (as much as her DLC in ME2 is fun, having good boss fights and a good setup) it's almost embarrassing how the game pleads and cries to the player to let Liara shine as the perfect blue-skinned waifu.

But her character between ME1 and ME2 is shredded and rewritten entirely. I'd dare to say Liara in ME1 and Liara in ME2 are different characters altogether. Garrus keeps his vigilante and hardass motif, Tali keeps her dutiful but curious character. Liara in ME1 is a naive researcher, in ME2 she's a completely hardass spymaster that rivals the Shadow Broker.... just because. You can almost feel the writer of 2 trying to half-ass a justification by "uhhhh archeology is tote similar to information brokering uhhh it's- uh, the same".

ME2 is tonally quite different from ME1, but Liara is one of the most clear examples. I'm quite curious about her going in ME3, maybe she gets another rewrite.

since Morinth is a literal predator, and didn't think much in terms of developing her as a character.

Agreeable. But Morinth is merely an example: ME2's writing can only describe, not execute. Morinth's speech is essentially "I LIKE DRUGS I LIKE DANCING I LIKE RICH WOMEN NOW OBEY ME". I'm not even exaggerating much, it's that blunt. I do not demand Avellone writing Planescape romances, but at least basic attempts at writing memorable or atmospheric dialogue.

For your question, after ME1/ME2.... Zaeed is a fun carbon copy of Canderous. Krogans may be all repetitive klingon lizards, but both Wrex and Grunt are amusing squaddies.

 

[Snekposter]

I'm quite curious about her going in ME3, maybe she gets another rewrite.

She's about mid-way between the two in ME3.

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

I would not call it interesting. It's schizophrenic. Let's ignore for a moment that Liara is constantly thrown in your face (as much as her DLC in ME2 is fun, having good boss fights and a good setup) it's almost embarrassing how the game pleads and cries to the player to let Liara shine as the perfect blue-skinned waifu.

But her character between ME1 and ME2 is shredded and rewritten entirely. I'd dare to say Liara in ME1 and Liara in ME2 are different characters altogether. Garrus keeps his vigilante and hardass motif, Tali keeps her dutiful but curious character. Liara in ME1 is a naive researcher, in ME2 she's a completely hardass spymaster that rivals the Shadow Broker.... just because. You can almost feel the writer of 2 trying to half-ass a justification by "uhhhh archeology is tote similar to information brokering uhhh it's- uh, the same".

ME2 is tonally quite different from ME1, but Liara is one of the most clear examples. I'm quite curious about her going in ME3, maybe she gets another rewrite.

I think Liara's character shift makes sense as it's presented, but you're right that it's a hell of a tone shift and that the writers give Liara far more attention than the other characters. The problem is that most players went with their Blueberry Waifu and there was a lot of expected fanservice around her as a result. Had more people romanced Ashley/Kaiden, they probably would have gotten a bigger role in ME2. It doesn't help that Liara, as you say, throws herself at the player. I would agree 100% that the other characters deserved more meat for their romance arcs.

Also, as someone who was in academia once upon a time and now does stuff related to the information business... they're a lot more related than you might think. Research skills are highly valuable and very transferable. That said, I do understand your point and I don't mean to say it's invalid or even wrong. I never saw Liara's jump as that strange but, after reading what you wrote, I can definitely see how others could see it as making Liara more badass for the sake of it.

Overall, ME2 was more grimdark than it needed to be, but it was 2010. The atmosphere and tone of ME2 does not hold up nearly as well in 2025 as ME1. Liara is much more consistent between ME2 and ME3 than between ME1 and ME2.

Agreeable. But Morinth is merely an example: ME2's writing can only describe, not execute. Morinth's speech is essentially "I LIKE DRUGS I LIKE DANCING I LIKE RICH WOMEN NOW OBEY ME". I'm not even exaggerating much, it's that blunt. I do not demand Avellone writing Planescape romances, but at least basic attempts at writing memorable or atmospheric dialogue.

For your question, after ME1/ME2.... Zaeed is a fun carbon copy of Canderous. Krogans may be all repetitive klingon lizards, but both Wrex and Grunt are amusing squaddies.

I don't agree. Morinth's speech is really "I'm being hunted down for choosing freedom over a millennia of cloistered life." Some people might resonate with that. I didn't find Morinth very interesting, or seductive, or even compelling, but I do see what the writers were trying to do with what is essentially a side mission that should take you 30 minutes to complete. The writers could have done a lot more, but remember that EA bought out BioWare and wanted results. I played ME2 at release and hooey did it feel rushed compared to ME1.

Zaeed definitely hits the "reliable sci-fi bounty hunter" trope that people, like me, enjoy. I thought that Zaeed was different enough from Canderous Ordo but, then again, I have not played KOTOR in a very long time. Wrex and Grunt are interesting for their juxtaposition. Wrex is a very old krogan who has seen it all, while Grunt is literally a teenager. In general, I found Wrex to be a strong and well-done character, but others disagree.

 

[Chunky Salsa]

Miranda is repeating what her father did to her by looking for a "perfect" match, only to find out that relationships aren't logic puzzles and that she's infertile. It's supposed to be sad and she can't settle down because she's so dedicated to Cerberus. At least, that's how I read it.

I guess, but then she does find her match in Shepherd, has a whirlwind romance with him, finds love, helps her sister again, reconciles with said sister, and in ME3 solves her daddy issues. I get the intent, but the impact falls flat for me because now all I think when I play Mass Effect 2 is that Miranda is slutting it up with random guys everytime we hit port lol. I'm off doing missions and she's running a drive through service.

EDIT: I also really like Garrus's character arc across ME1 and ME2; where he goes from a man wanting to try and get off the chain of protocol, right the wrongs as essentially Dirty Harry; to a man that has tried that, realised how awful trying to fix a broken world is when you don't have an ironhard set of rules of codes to follow, and become disenchanted by it all. To then coming out the other side as the best of both worlds by the time ME3 starts.

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

I guess, but then she does find her match in Shepherd, has a whirlwind romance with him, finds love, helps her sister again, reconciles with said sister, and in ME3 solves her daddy issues. I get the intent, but the impact falls flat for me because now all I think when I play Mass Effect 2 is that Miranda is slutting it up with random guys everytime we hit port lol. I'm off doing missions and she's running a drive through service.

EDIT: I also really like Garrus's character arc across ME1 and ME2; where he goes from a man wanting to try and get off the chain of protocol, right the wrongs as essentially Dirty Harry; to a man that has tried that, realised how awful trying to fix a broken world is when you don't have an ironhard set of rules of codes to follow, and become disenchanted by it all. To then coming out the other side as the best of both worlds by the time ME3 starts.

I remember, when ME2 first came out, I thought Miranda was a stuck up bitch with insecurities that weren't my problem. Much like Jack, she's a fixer-upper, and I think it was the intention of the writers to make them somewhat similar. All that said, I can understand why you didn't like her. I didn't like her, either, and have never done her romance. I've heard it's pretty good, though. It's worth mentioning that, out of all the characters that you can romance in the entire trilogy, Miranda is the only one who cries if you dump her. Also, big spoiler for those who haven't played ME3 yet: if you dump her in your first encounter with her in ME3, she will later die in the game. It suffices to say that Miranda places a lot more in her relationship with Shepard than any other character.

You can blow off and ignore Liara all three games, never romance or flirt with her, and she will still femcel for Shepard. There are even some moments where she is outright catty with Shepard's love interest.

 

[Snekposter]

EDIT: I also really like Garrus's character arc across ME1 and ME2; where he goes from a man wanting to try and get off the chain of protocol, right the wrongs as essentially Dirty Harry; to a man that has tried that, realised how awful trying to fix a broken world is when you don't have an ironhard set of rules of codes to follow, and become disenchanted by it all. To then coming out the other side as the best of both worlds by the time ME3 starts.

One neat thing in ME2 is after you take some squadmates on a mission (even to a hub like Omega and then right back) you can ask Joker for his opinion on the teammates you took with you. His opinion on Garrus is, and I quote "He's finally worked that stick out of his ass, but now he's started trying to beat guys to death with it."

 

[Burt Ryan]

I imagine Liara's tone shift is more explored in one of the comics, where she recovers Shepard's body and sells it to Cerberus. Which yes, it's not a good excuse, but those were different times. I still think Tali is the best male romance, followed by Jack.

Also, I think the "crewmen" in ME3 are way more enjoyable than the ones from ME2. Cortez, Vega and Traynor dunk hard on Miranda, Jacob and Kelly. They're just, so enjoyable to have around, unlike Jacob's "nuh uh not sayin' nuffin", Miranda (even though she warms up and becomes more open pretty fast) and Kelly "I need a hug" Chambers.

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

I imagine Liara's tone shift is more explored in one of the comics, where she recovers Shepard's body and sells it to Cerberus. Which yes, it's not a good excuse, but those were different times. I still think Tali is the best male romance, followed by Jack.

Tali is a bit younger than Shepard and is an adoring fan. Romancing her comes across as a little weird, at least to me - like the rockstar banging a fan. Also, there's the whole "having sex with her could actually kill her" thing. That said, I do get her appeal. She's definitely the most stable of the romance options. I've been re-playing the trilogy lately and I literally stopped at one point during ME2 and said out loud: "Tali is the most normal motherfucker on this ship."

 

[Anon88]

Also, I think the "crewmen" in ME3 are way more enjoyable than the ones from ME2. Cortez, Vega and Traynor dunk hard on Miranda, Jacob and Kelly. They're just, so enjoyable to have around, unlike Jacob's "nuh uh not sayin' nuffin", Miranda (even though she warms up and becomes more open pretty fast) and Kelly "I need a hug" Chambers.

Couldn’t disagree any harder. Cortez just cries about his husband dying and that gets boring pretty quickly. Plus he gay so minus even more points from him as he basically the forerunner to the cancerous stuff that’s killing BioWare right now. Anyways he’s way worse than anyone from the 2nd game. Vega isn’t bad but he’s pretty plain and forgettable.

 

[Burt Ryan]

>be me
>reach the ME3 ending
>I already did Destroy once so I just start shooting around like a spaz
>hit the hologram kid behind me
>"So be it then."
>credits rolls



edit: I just feel it's so cathartic that after 2 months where I've replayed the trilogy and its DLCs, the run ends with Paragon Shepard saying:"Fuck it.", letting the Reapers repeat the cycle.

 

[Rockzo]

>hit the hologram kid behind me
>"So be it then."
>credit rolls

Shepard clearly doesn't have the Mojo to actually drop kick a hologram.

 

[General Emílio Médici]

Does anyone know more about the original Reaper motivation storyline that their culling of civilizations was because the usage of element zero would cause a false vaccum decay kinda meme eventually similar to that one Asimov story about nuclear force getting fucky?

 

[Super Hans v2]

Does anyone know more about the original Reaper motivation storyline that their culling of civilizations was because the usage of element zero would cause a false vaccum decay kinda meme eventually similar to that one Asimov story about nuclear force getting fucky?

That was really it, partially because the writers wanted to lean into the unknowable cosmic horror ME1 set up, the rest because the original outline got aborted. The only solid thing is other than the dark energy bit is that the Reapers were harvesting organics to make a new Reaper variant because the other option was on a long enough timeline the species would go extinct otherwise.

 

[Snekposter]

That was really it, partially because the writers wanted to lean into the unknowable cosmic horror ME1 set up, the rest because the original outline got aborted. The only solid thing is other than the dark energy bit is that the Reapers were harvesting organics to make a new Reaper variant because the other option was on a long enough timeline the species would go extinct otherwise.

Yeah, and as part of that whole harvesting thing it was implied the people inside were still sorta-alive, considering Sovereign mentioning he was an entire nation unto himself.

 

[TheHarbinger]

Does anyone know more about the original Reaper motivation storyline that their culling of civilizations was because the usage of element zero would cause a false vaccum decay kinda meme eventually similar to that one Asimov story about nuclear force getting fucky?

The first story is that 'dark energy' threatens all existence. This energy is like a plague of entropy that prevents any heat from existing in the universe. It basically shuts down movement of anything that exists down to the smallest particles. The Reapers however have mastered a way to avoid this energy from wiping them out. There is a cycle to existence where this energy spreads throughout the universe and devours all organic matter and is unstoppable but at some point will recede and allow life to come about once again. Not even the Reapers can stop the cycle and flow of this destructive energy and they don't understand its nature or origin. Their only method to resist has been to avoid the energy and basically hibernate in zero space until the universe returns back to normal.

One of the original pieces of the story was that FTL technology actually accelerated this breaking of the universal fabric and allowing for the release of more destructive dark energy. And the Reapers would emerge from hiding whenever organics began creating FTL technology and using it again. Necessitating another Reaper cleansing to stop the decay of the universe. It was described as a sci-fi version of 'global warming' in some interviews. And that humanity and aliens using FTL throughout the universe was like deforestation and urban sprawl.

After Mass Effect 1 the writers went into a new direction about synthetic life and organic life. And the rise of machines overtaking organic beings. And then went in even more different directions with the third game. The storyline of the Starcraft series is similar. In that the first games had their stories abandoned for something completely new that is similar to Mass Effect's original story.

 

[Charred Dinosaur]

One of the original pieces of the story was that FTL technology actually accelerated this breaking of the universal fabric and allowing for the release of more destructive dark energy. And the Reapers would emerge from hiding whenever organics began creating FTL technology and using it again. Necessitating another Reaper cleansing to stop the decay of the universe. It was described as a sci-fi version of 'global warming' in some interviews. And that humanity and aliens using FTL throughout the universe was like deforestation and urban sprawl.

After Mass Effect 1 the writers went into a new direction about synthetic life and organic life. And the rise of machines overtaking organic beings. And then went in even more different directions with the third game. The storyline of the Starcraft series is similar. In that the first games had their stories abandoned for something completely new that is similar to Mass Effect's original story.

I remember that there was slightly more "creationism" to it, with the Reapers themselves being created by an unknown power specifically to trim civilizations that become advanced enough to use eezo.

We don't know much about what the creators were supposed to be like, but the reason why they didn't just wipe out all life to extend the lifespan of the universe was because doing so would "defeat the purpose of the universe's existence".

By making it into a cycle every race would have time to grow, advance and propser before the Reapers destroyed them (whilst using some of their DNA to create new Reapers, so in a sense they wouldn't go truly extinct), in doing so making way for new species to exist and enjoy life.

As such the ending of 3 would have been a massive moral conundrum:
If you destroy the Reapers all the races of the universe get to live a bit longer but at the cost of being doomed in the long run regardless and dragging existence down with them.
If you continue the cycle everyone you every knew would die with their civilizations and nobody would remember any of you, but you will give the oppurtunity for countless more lives to be born and find happiness in the future.

Also the reason why they changed it was because during the development of Mass Effect 3 the ending got leaked and Bioware made the retarded decision to change it since they thought it would be better to write everything from scratch after the OG writers left rather than to just carry on and ignore that a small fraction of the fanbase knew what was coming.