MCU Television and Animation Series on Disney + - WandaVision, FATWS, Loki, etc

It's kinda like they merged Holdo and Jar Jar into one annoying cat lady blue checkmark self-insert. Was she that horrible in the Thor movies? I don't remember and did not recognize her at first.

Now I was pretty drunk by the end of Wandavision and my memory is a little fuzzy but can somebody help me walk through exactly what the Bad Guy did wrong?

I mean Agatha...

In her origin, she defends herself against the rest of her coven, who are trying to execute her. Her crime was basically not knowing her place, and the people she kills are witches, so she doesn't come across as particularly evil.

In the present, she enters Wanda's fantasy, helps her to understand where her powers come from, and confronts her about her wrongdoing. She offers to allow Wanda to continue living in her fake world peacefully if she'll hand over her power. She doesn't seem to have any kind of Big Evil Plan for what she'll do with the power, which Wanda is already abusing anyway. I don't think she ever actually hurts anybody in the present (other than Sparky?). She kidnaps Wanda's imaginary kids, who Wanda later destroys anyway, and she mind-controls substitute Pietro, who doesn't seem all that disturbed compared to Wanda's victims. She seems to be written in a stupidly hostile and abrasive way just so that we'll understand that she's "bad" and one gets the feeling that if she'd just asked Wanda nicely she'd have cooperated in the first place.

Agatha's POV is actually closer to a traditional superhero plot: picture a hero who infiltrates the villain's fantasy world, makes her understand what she's doing is wrong, takes her power away to prevent her from harming anyone else, but leaves her to happily live in her fantasy after freeing the innocent civilians. That's like a Superman story.

Instead our "hero" Wanda ignores Agatha's pleas for mercy and condemns her to perpetual suffering, telling her she'll come back for her if she needs her help to become even more powerful (note: Wanda is already more powerful than the evil overlord who wiped out half the universe, and the other heroes of this story were helpless to stop her from doing whatever she wanted). They don't seem to be driving at any kind of moral ambiguity: the protagonist being upset justifies the means. There is something telling about the way the civvies act aggressively towards Wanda after being freed, instead of being terrified of her. Are they that stupid? The plot wants to treat her as an ostracized victim despite it making no sense at all. She mind-raped all of them and her penance is to get stared-at in a mean way.
Giving someone who killed their own mother and didn't feel a sliver of remorse more power probably isn't the best idea. Wanda at least let everyone go when she fully realized the extent of how badly the people were suffering, I don't think Agatha would do that.
 
Kat Dennings is awesome. She seems to be a normal person for someone working in Hollywood. The character was supposed to be just a comic relief in the Thor movies, but she got MSHEU'ed. "WE NEED TO HAVE A WAHMEN" because Wanda, Monica, and Agatha weren't enough.

Now I was pretty drunk by the end of Wandavision and my memory is a little fuzzy but can somebody help me walk through exactly what the Bad Guy did wrong?

I mean Agatha...

In her origin, she defends herself against the rest of her coven, who are trying to execute her. Her crime was basically not knowing her place, and the people she kills are witches, so she doesn't come across as particularly evil.

In the present, she enters Wanda's fantasy, helps her to understand where her powers come from, and confronts her about her wrongdoing. She offers to allow Wanda to continue living in her fake world peacefully if she'll hand over her power. She doesn't seem to have any kind of Big Evil Plan for what she'll do with the power, which Wanda is already abusing anyway. I don't think she ever actually hurts anybody in the present (other than Sparky?). She kidnaps Wanda's imaginary kids, who Wanda later destroys anyway, and she mind-controls substitute Pietro, who doesn't seem all that disturbed compared to Wanda's victims. She seems to be written in a stupidly hostile and abrasive way just so that we'll understand that she's "bad" and one gets the feeling that if she'd just asked Wanda nicely she'd have cooperated in the first place.

Agatha's POV is actually closer to a traditional superhero plot: picture a hero who infiltrates the villain's fantasy world, makes her understand what she's doing is wrong, takes her power away to prevent her from harming anyone else, but leaves her to happily live in her fantasy after freeing the innocent civilians. That's like a Superman story.

Instead our "hero" Wanda ignores Agatha's pleas for mercy and condemns her to perpetual suffering, telling her she'll come back for her if she needs her help to become even more powerful (note: Wanda is already more powerful than the evil overlord who wiped out half the universe, and the other heroes of this story were helpless to stop her from doing whatever she wanted). They don't seem to be driving at any kind of moral ambiguity: the protagonist being upset justifies the means. There is something telling about the way the civvies act aggressively towards Wanda after being freed, instead of being terrified of her. Are they that stupid? The plot wants to treat her as an ostracized victim despite it making no sense at all. She mind-raped all of them and her penance is to get stared-at in a mean way.
The Big Bad is not Aghata. They said the Big Bad is Grief. Which is also love.

So, I don't know what's the message here... that it's grief is good because it means you don't stop loving but also it's bad because you can go crazy...

But to answer your question, Agatha is bad because Wanda's good and everyone who is in her way is the villain or is an ungrateful bastard.
 
Kat Dennings is awesome. She seems to be a normal person for someone working in Hollywood. The character was supposed to be just a comic relief in the Thor movies, but she got MSHEU'ed. "WE NEED TO HAVE A WAHMEN" because Wanda, Monica, and Agatha weren't enough.
I won't lie I did love hearing the story. Where she was upset that she couldn't say merry Christmas to any of her co-stars or crewmembers on Two Broke Girls because they are force to say happy holidays. She earn my respect through that.
Also I don't really hate the Darcy character honestly.
 
I cringed hard at this clip from The Falcon and the Winter Soldier.


I hate this Whedon cancer style of dialogue.
It's like the kind of dialogue you'd read in a fanfic. Like Bucky's weird insistence on reminding Falcon that he's from the 40s, he couldn't have just said "I read the book when it came out"? It's more subtle but gets the point across just the same. Maybe they don't think the audience would get it then.
 
It's like the kind of dialogue you'd read in a fanfic. Like Bucky's weird insistence on reminding Falcon that he's from the 40s, he couldn't have just said "I read the book when it came out"? It's more subtle but gets the point across just the same. Maybe they don't think the audience would get it then.
Oh God they really are going with the bucky "is from the 1940s LOL" jokes.
 
It's like the kind of dialogue you'd read in a fanfic. Like Bucky's weird insistence on reminding Falcon that he's from the 40s, he couldn't have just said "I read the book when it came out"? It's more subtle but gets the point across just the same. Maybe they don't think the audience would get it then.
Agreed. A joke about Bucky reading the book when it came out would be fine, but the rest of the dialogue belongs in a parody and not the actual show.
 
The dialogue feels just too heavy and long for what it's just a small joke.

"It has to be one of the Big Three"
"The what?"
"Every time we fight one of these things it's either an alien, a robot, or a wizard?"
"Are we fighting Gandalf now?"
"You watched Lord of the Rings?"
"I read Lord of the Rings".
 
The dialogue feels just too heavy and long for what it's just a small joke.

"It has to be one of the Big Three"
"The what?"
"Every time we fight one of these things it's either an alien, a robot, or a wizard?"
"Are we fighting Gandalf now?"
"You watched Lord of the Rings?"
"I read Lord of the Rings".

This is one of the reasons I STRONGLY dislike how the MCU is paced. The dialogue goes on for far longer that it should and it feels like the pacing grinds to a halt to hammer in some stupid joke or whatever into the audience's brain.

But OH NO don't criticize the MCU because that's what faggots do...or some other variation from stupid fanboys.
 
The Big Bad is not Aghata. They said the Big Bad is Grief. Which is also love.

So, I don't know what's the message here... that it's grief is good because it means you don't stop loving but also it's bad because you can go crazy...

But to answer your question, Agatha is bad because Wanda's good and everyone who is in her way is the villain or is an ungrateful bastard.
I was so sure that when Vision asked "what am I?" Wanda was going to answer "you're love... persisting" and it was going to be this big epic moment, oh well

Wanda at least let everyone go when she fully realized the extent of how badly the people were suffering,
An honest mistake, I mean hey she's not a mind-reader
 
I was so sure that when Vision asked "what am I?" Wanda was going to answer "you're love... persisting" and it was going to be this big epic moment, oh well


An honest mistake, I mean hey she's not a mind-reader
Pretty sure she doesn't just randomly read people's minds...anymore.
 
BENEDICT CUMBERBATCH APOLOGIZES FOR NOT BEING IN WANDAVISION

I'm actually surprised with how much backtracking and apologizes are being made in regards to Wandavision's finale.
I think the only egregious aspect of it is the whole Quicksilver X-Men debacle, which even they clearly are starting to regret. I wouldn't be shocked if they retcon it so that it actually was the Quicksilver from the X-Men films. I have a hunch that it was originally going to be Aaron Taylor-Johnson in that role but he probably turned it down and so their second best option was Evan Peters. After reading interviews and news articles about it, it doesn't make sense that the whole "moving past grief" theme is done through a Pietro that Wanda doesn't recognize and all the "recast" lines seem to be added in later to accommodate this change. I could be wrong, though.
 
BENEDICT CUMBERBATCH APOLOGIZES FOR NOT BEING IN WANDAVISION

I'm actually surprised with how much backtracking and apologizes are being made in regards to Wandavision's finale.
I think the only egregious aspect of it is the whole Quicksilver X-Men debacle, which even they clearly are starting to regret. I wouldn't be shocked if they retcon it so that it actually was the Quicksilver from the X-Men films. I have a hunch that it was originally going to be Aaron Taylor-Johnson in that role but he probably turned it down and so their second best option was Evan Peters. After reading interviews and news articles about it, it doesn't make sense that the whole "moving past grief" theme is done through a Pietro that Wanda doesn't recognize and all the "recast" lines seem to be added in later to accommodate this change. I could be wrong, though.
I just love how you have journalists who are claiming that WandaVision is just like last jedi. When it's clearly not just by the fact you have people from Marvel apologizing for their finale compare to the cast and crew of Last Jedi who just shited on the fans who didn't like it.
 
BENEDICT CUMBERBATCH APOLOGIZES FOR NOT BEING IN WANDAVISION

I'm actually surprised with how much backtracking and apologizes are being made in regards to Wandavision's finale.
I think the only egregious aspect of it is the whole Quicksilver X-Men debacle, which even they clearly are starting to regret. I wouldn't be shocked if they retcon it so that it actually was the Quicksilver from the X-Men films. I have a hunch that it was originally going to be Aaron Taylor-Johnson in that role but he probably turned it down and so their second best option was Evan Peters. After reading interviews and news articles about it, it doesn't make sense that the whole "moving past grief" theme is done through a Pietro that Wanda doesn't recognize and all the "recast" lines seem to be added in later to accommodate this change. I could be wrong, though.
Yeah I suspect Evan Peters will be back at some point. Marvel had balls to do what they did and in a twisted sort of way I respect that, but c'mon lol no way people were going to be OK with that.
 
It's kinda like they merged Holdo and Jar Jar into one annoying cat lady blue checkmark self-insert. Was she that horrible in the Thor movies? I don't remember and did not recognize her at first.

Now I was pretty drunk by the end of Wandavision and my memory is a little fuzzy but can somebody help me walk through exactly what the Bad Guy did wrong?

I mean Agatha...

In her origin, she defends herself against the rest of her coven, who are trying to execute her. Her crime was basically not knowing her place, and the people she kills are witches, so she doesn't come across as particularly evil.

In the present, she enters Wanda's fantasy, helps her to understand where her powers come from, and confronts her about her wrongdoing. She offers to allow Wanda to continue living in her fake world peacefully if she'll hand over her power. She doesn't seem to have any kind of Big Evil Plan for what she'll do with the power, which Wanda is already abusing anyway. I don't think she ever actually hurts anybody in the present (other than Sparky?). She kidnaps Wanda's imaginary kids, who Wanda later destroys anyway, and she mind-controls substitute Pietro, who doesn't seem all that disturbed compared to Wanda's victims. She seems to be written in a stupidly hostile and abrasive way just so that we'll understand that she's "bad" and one gets the feeling that if she'd just asked Wanda nicely she'd have cooperated in the first place.

Agatha's POV is actually closer to a traditional superhero plot: picture a hero who infiltrates the villain's fantasy world, makes her understand what she's doing is wrong, takes her power away to prevent her from harming anyone else, but leaves her to happily live in her fantasy after freeing the innocent civilians. That's like a Superman story.

Instead our "hero" Wanda ignores Agatha's pleas for mercy and condemns her to perpetual suffering, telling her she'll come back for her if she needs her help to become even more powerful (note: Wanda is already more powerful than the evil overlord who wiped out half the universe, and the other heroes of this story were helpless to stop her from doing whatever she wanted). They don't seem to be driving at any kind of moral ambiguity: the protagonist being upset justifies the means. There is something telling about the way the civvies act aggressively towards Wanda after being freed, instead of being terrified of her. Are they that stupid? The plot wants to treat her as an ostracized victim despite it making no sense at all. She mind-raped all of them and her penance is to get stared-at in a mean way.
I liked the series, and I think Elizabeth Olsen in particular did a great job on it, but the ending does sort of let Wanda off the hook for basically enslaving a town full of people.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/03/08/wandavision-finale-grief-scarlet-witch/

https://archive.is/3Joo3

The reviewer got a lot of flack for his column, but I think he's essentially right. Wanda is given a free pass for everything because she's grieving.
 
I liked the series, and I think Elizabeth Olsen in particular did a great job on it, but the ending does sort of let Wanda off the hook for basically enslaving a town full of people.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/03/08/wandavision-finale-grief-scarlet-witch/

https://archive.md/3Joo3

The reviewer got a lot of flack for his column, but I think he's essentially right. Wanda is given a free pass for everything because she's grieving.
She flew away from the cops. There's not a lot you can do to punish someone like that lol
 
I liked the series, and I think Elizabeth Olsen in particular did a great job on it, but the ending does sort of let Wanda off the hook for basically enslaving a town full of people.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/03/08/wandavision-finale-grief-scarlet-witch/

https://archive.md/3Joo3

The reviewer got a lot of flack for his column, but I think he's essentially right. Wanda is given a free pass for everything because she's grieving.
It's WaPo so I guess he's not going to piece together why the characters were written the way they were. Photon was talking down to Hayward from their first scene, they couldn't resist making him a total buffoon. They have a little catching up to do before they can match the wokeness of Netflix Marvel at its peak, though.

Overall I was entertained, if it was the MCU's TLJ it would have been Captain America in Hayward's role. Pietro was a fun casting gag and I'm a little surprised at how much sperging that apparently caused.
 
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I'll need to see the final episode again to confirm/remember, but in regards to Pietro ...

Was it confirmed that Ralph Bohner is actually his real name, or is that just the name that Wanda gave him in her TV Land? Bohner isn't just a cheap dick joke; it's a reference to the 80's sitcom, Growing Pains (which was referenced in the series multiple times). Bohner was Mike Sever's best friend in Growing Pains.

Agatha had a spell on him, yes, but considering that she was able to manipulate Wanda's magic and use her own spells in Wanda's Hex, then wouldn't it make sense that Agatha placed a spell on top of Wanda's spell on Ralph/Pietro?

To me, it looks like there's a way for Marvel to write themselves out of this one to continue with Evan Peters' Quicksilver and please the fans. lol.
 
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