MCU Television and Animation Series on Disney + - WandaVision, FATWS, Loki, etc

The Valeyard said:
Episode 4 of FATWS

  • Sam is sympathetic to the Flag-Smashers' cause, but disagrees with their methods.
  • The Dora Milaje let Zemo escape by starting a fight with John Walker, then attacking Sam and Bucky for stepping in so they don't kill him.
  • This humiliation at the hands of the Dora Milaje leads to Walker taking the vial of super serum that he recovered earlier in the episode. (The rest were destroyed by Zemo.)
  • Sam's sister gets another cringey scene where she says that America doesn't represent her and she doesn't care who their mascot is.
  • We're going to get articles complaining that killing off Battlestar is problematic.
  • The final shot of the episode is John Walker holding a bloodstained shield after using it to execute one of the Flag-Smashers in the public square.
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Much better than last week's. It's kind of like night and day in terms of the writing, cinematography etc.
 
Still not impressed. Writing is very strange and their attempts at getting you to sympathise with the Flag Smashers isn't fucking working. I actually was cheering for New Capt to actually kill them in the end.

You fucked up bad if you feel that way about the characters. I feel little actual investment and their motivations are super vague to the point it feels like they are afraid of making them explicit.
 
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InsolentGaylord said:
Still not impressed. Writing is very strange and their attempts at getting you to sympathise with the Flag Smashers isn't fucking working. I actually was cheering for New Capt to actually kill them in the end.

You fucked up bad if you feel that way about the characters. I feel little actual investment and their motivations are super vague to the point it feels like they are afraid of making them explicit.
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When did they want you to sympathise with the Flag Smashers? Sam even said their methods are fucked up, but you don't go into a foreign country as a solider and just murder without trial outside of a war. Cap went way too far and this is what will get his shield taken away.

EDIT:
A new leak cropped up regarding episode 5's runtime which puts it at 61 minutes (including credits, so probably closer to like 50-55). https://thedirect.com/article/falcon-and-winter-soldier-leak-marvel-episode-5-runtime
 
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I fucking love Zemo, and I hope he sticks around beyond the show, maybe with a larger role going forwards. Also, Fake Cap killing that guy, and the final shot of him with the bloodied shield, is the best moment of the show so far. The Flag Smashers are eh, whatever, and I really don't give a shit about Sam's sister and her bank loan troubles, but Zemo and Fake Cap are making this worth watching for me
 
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Jar-Jar Fanboy said:
I fucking love Zemo, and I hope he sticks around beyond the show, maybe with a larger role going forwards. Also, Fake Cap killing that guy, and the final shot of him with the bloodied shield, is the best moment of the show so far. The Flag Smashers are eh, whatever, and I really don't give a shit about Sam's sister and her bank loan troubles, but Zemo and Fake Cap are making this worth watching for me
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Thankfully the bank shit has been kept to a minimum. Given there's only six episodes they kind of had to.
 
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Hopefully Zemo and Walker make it out of this show and they center a Thunderbolts series around them.
 
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InsolentGaylord said:
Still not impressed. Writing is very strange and their attempts at getting you to sympathise with the Flag Smashers isn't fucking working. I actually was cheering for New Capt to actually kill them in the end.

You fucked up bad if you feel that way about the characters. I feel little actual investment and their motivations are super vague to the point it feels like they are afraid of making them explicit.
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I don't think they are honestly going for that the way they were doing with Zemo in Civil War or Vulture in Homecoiming. Given how easily the had Sam "trick" the main girl into more or less admitting to sympathizing with a supremacist worldview I feel like they were going more the Killmonger, "I can kind of see where you're coming from but holy shit man" angle. Combine that with the almost immediate not-threat of "I don't wanna show up to your house with the kids buuuut..." makes me feel like they're not trying to go the sympathy angle.
 
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Heard a rumor Nat might appear in a flashback. (They said that BW directly ties into TFATWS)
Either that or that Carli girl was one of the brainwashed widows?
 
starborn427614 said:
When did they want you to sympathise with the Flag Smashers?
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They literally had a scene with one of the Flag Smashers saying that he used to look up to Captain America (Steve Rogers), which is there to make the audience feel bad when John Walker kills him with the shield.
 
The Valeyard said:
They literally had a scene with one of the Flag Smashers saying that he used to look up to Captain America (Steve Rogers)...
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Maybe because there's nothing especially "American" about MCU Cap? In terms of ideals and sensibilities, he's sort of a generic Western Classical Liberal with no particular cultural flavor despite his patriotic theme. If you want a Marvel Cinematic Universe character who really embodies everything good and bad about the American national spirit and self-image, that would be Iron Man.
 
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The issue is the writing is way too shallow, they set up all these plot points and themes which they could do something with to add much needed depth, but they just don't and doubt they will in the last 2 episodes. But if it wants just be a dumb but enjoyable capeshit show, well it's also failing at that, as everything outside Zemo is very dull and bland.

MCU needs a big shake up, they can't keep doing same the shit all the time, I think it 's pretty telling normal people disliked WandaVision when it turned into another generic Marvel thing by the end compared to how it started off.
 
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Product Placement said:
The issue is the writing is way too shallow, they set up all these plot points and themes which they could do something with to add much needed depth, but they just don't and doubt they will in the last 2 episodes. But if it wants just be a dumb but enjoyable capeshit show, well it's also failing at that, as everything outside Zemo is very dull and bland.

MCU needs a big shake up, they can't keep doing same the shit all the time, I think it 's pretty telling normal people disliked WandaVision when it turned into another generic Marvel thing by the end compared to how it started off.
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That's the downside of having to make everything cohesive. It's why things like Guardians resonated with people so much in the first place.
 
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starborn427614 said:
That's the downside of having to make everything cohesive. It's why things like Guardians resonated with people so much in the first place.
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Do they really have to make the tone cohesive anymore, don't think people care anymore as long as they like the final product and as long it's cohesive within the show/movie it's self rather than the cinematic universe at large.

Not saying MCU needs to go dark, in fact could become more silly in some movies like a 80's Jackie Chan movie with it's slapstick fighting, just they can't keep doing the same shit, they really feel like a soulless product now rather something with a voice behind them.
 
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Product Placement said:
Do they really have to make the tone cohesive anymore, don't think people care anymore as long as they like the final product and as long it's cohesive within the show/movie it's self rather than the cinematic universe at large.

Not saying MCU needs to go dark, in fact could become more silly in some movies like a 80's Jackie Chan movie with it's slapstick fighting, just they can't keep doing the same shit, they really feel like a soulless product now rather something with a voice behind them.
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Normies still love the MCU as much as ever, so I don't think Feige etc. really feels the need to shake things up tonally. When you're making money hand over fist you don't need to.
 
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