MCU Television and Animation Series on Disney + - WandaVision, FATWS, Loki, etc

[starborn427614]

I really do hope that after US Agent gets his black costume(?), he beats the ever-loving snot out of the Dora Milaje.

Probably wishful thinking at it's finest, but such a turn of events would not, I suspect, fall outside the realm of possibility, since many people would read this as a heinous and villainous act by Walker whatever the circumstances.

Speaking of the costume, there was a toy leak of it.

 

[TheClorax]

If it was John Walker saying “Captain America has jurisdiction wherever he happens to be“ the cucks cheering on the Dora Milaje would be calling him a fascist.

I mean, you’re right, but in-universe it works because Wakanda only ever really acts in self-defense, and they were only there for Zemo until John screwed everything up.

 

[starborn427614]

I mean, you’re right, but in-universe it works because Wakanda only ever really acts in self-defense, and they were only there for Zemo until John screwed everything up.

This. Don't put hands on soldiers no matter how casually, it never ends well.

 

[Kyria the Great]

imagine you having to fill the role of what most would consider a god. How many of us would feel we fall short in that role?

 

[KillThemCrackasBabies]

Yeah I feel like the Walker arc is going perfectly. They pretty much assign him the role of Captain America with no superpowers or irl experience with the real one, and just assume he's going to be a significant successor and there was obviously no way that shit was going to work. I feel like they've gotten everything right with him so far.

 

[Tor Lugosi]

Yeah, I was very skeptical that they'd handle him right, figuring they'd just make him into some sort of angry fascist strawman. Yet they've handled Walker well so far -- he's basically a good guy (possibly suffering from PTSD) that got thrown into deep waters he wasn't ready for. He also seems like he figured he'd be fighting a clear-cut enemy like HYDRA or some sort of over-the-top evil thing instead of the Flag Smashers.

 

[Cyril Sneer]

Speaking of the costume, there was a toy leak of it.

Yeah, that's why I figured he might show up in the black outfit at some point.

I mean, you’re right, but in-universe it works because Wakanda only ever really acts in self-defense...

Hey, remember that time that the Wakandan head of State went on a vigilante rampage across like half of Europe?

Yeah, I was very skeptical that they'd handle him right, figuring they'd just make him into some sort of angry fascist strawman. Yet they've handled Walker well so far -- he's basically a good guy (possibly suffering from PTSD) that got thrown into deep waters he wasn't ready for. He also seems like he figured he'd be fighting a clear-cut enemy like HYDRA or some sort of over-the-top evil thing instead of the Flag Smashers.

They should have just hired Deadpool.

 

[starborn427614]

Yeah, that's why I figured he might show up in the black outfit at some point.


Hey, remember that time that the Wakandan head of State went on a vigilante rampage across like half of Europe?

View attachment 2084975


They should have just hired Deadpool.

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To be fair, BP did admit he was being consumed be vengeance and stopped right before killing Zemo.

 

[Cyril Sneer]

To be fair, BP did admit he was being consumed be vengeance and stopped right before killing Zemo.

Yes, but it nonetheless constitutes evidence for my apprehension that MCU Wakanda's concept of "acting in self-defense" is just as radically pre-emptive (if not more so) than the real-world U.S. Government's (which I think is really something of a missed opportunity to play up in any given confrontation between US Agent and agents of the Wakandan state in this series).

 

[Uranus Pink]

Whatever opportunities there were used up in the 1930ies Phantom with his
country Bangella which the Black Panther and Wakanda are ripped offs of.

 

[starborn427614]

Yes, but it nonetheless constitutes evidence for my apprehension that MCU Wakanda's concept of "acting in self-defense" is just as radically pre-emptive (if not more so) than the real-world U.S. Government's (which I think is really something of a missed opportunity to play up in any given confrontation between US Agent and agents of the Wakandan state in this series).

That's fair enough given the evidence that Wakanda still has a secret service at all even though their king is mysteriously absent. I assume he's not in the plot anymore anyway, that'd be awkward if he was always just off screen.

 

[Empresa]

Shame Chadwick Died , Im sure he would played the part of the wakandan warriors

That's fair enough given the evidence that Wakanda still has a secret service at all even though their king is mysteriously absent. I assume he's not in the plot anymore anyway, that'd be awkward if he was always just off screen.

but they have extra unused footage saving it now for his exit .

 

[SmugAutist]

FatWS reportedly was Disney+'s most watched premiere and there's at least one thread dedicated to the show everywhere I look. That the show is fairly straightforward and doesn't lend itself to wild theorizing like WandaVision I think makes the audience for it seem muted.

Ever since the first Avengers move came out every year there's talk of the MCU dying out due to disinterest and fatigue. Nearly a decade later it's still around and it'll probably here for another ten years in some form.

Trends always fade away in the end, no matter how profitable they are, but you are right that Marvel is not dying any time soon, mainly because there's still an audience out there for it and there's really nothing to replace it with, and coming out of this pandemic, no other studio will even have the financial backing to attempt to do anything to rival Marvel. That said, I don't think it's going to be financially possible to top the earnings from Endgame, just due to how much the industry was affected through this past year.

I think the way it eventually will end is by a cultural shift that no longer fits the vibe of Marvel excess. It was a franchise that reached its popularity during one of America's best financial eras. In my view, there will be a lot of Rian Johnsons in the future that will try and "innovate" the formula to avoid it being stale, which will later make it less appealing to normies.

Then again, I could just be seeing rainbows.

 

[Gar For Archer]

Trends always fade away in the end, no matter how profitable they are, but you are right that Marvel is not dying any time soon, mainly because there's still an audience out there for it and there's really nothing to replace it with, and coming out of this pandemic, no other studio will even have the financial backing to attempt to do anything to rival Marvel. That said, I don't think it's going to be financially possible to top the earnings from Endgame, just due to how much the industry was affected through this past year.

I think the way it eventually will end is by a cultural shift that no longer fits the vibe of Marvel excess. It was a franchise that reached its popularity during one of America's best financial eras. In my view, there will be a lot of Rian Johnsons in the future that will try and "innovate" the formula to avoid it being stale, which will later make it less appealing to normies.

Then again, I could just be seeing rainbows.

It will fade once they stop trying.

The MCU isn’t high art, but shitty humor aside it’s pretty good for what it is, and they clearly DO put effort into making more than lowest-common-denominator trash. I haven’t cared about it in a while, but I can admit that there’s still some substance there. As long as they keep that up, normies will keep at it.

 

[starborn427614]

It will fade once they stop trying.

The MCU isn’t high art, but shitty humor aside it’s pretty good for what it is, and they clearly DO put effort into making more than lowest-common-denominator trash. I haven’t cared about it in a while, but I can admit that there’s still some substance there. As long as they keep that up, normies will keep at it.

It helps that they usually cast the perfect actor for the role. Say what you will about Falcon and Bucky being bland characters, but Anthony Mackie and Sebastian Stan help carry their legacies.

 

[AuxPersonality]

It will fade once they stop trying.

The MCU isn’t high art, but shitty humor aside it’s pretty good for what it is, and they clearly DO put effort into making more than lowest-common-denominator trash. I haven’t cared about it in a while, but I can admit that there’s still some substance there. As long as they keep that up, normies will keep at it.

Compared to what BBC did to Dr Who they are maintaining a good base line across all aspects, script, acting, film tech aka sound, lighting, cgi, not pissing off employees ect.

 

[KillThemCrackasBabies]

I think the way it eventually will end is by a cultural shift that no longer fits the vibe of Marvel excess. It was a franchise that reached its popularity during one of America's best financial eras. In my view, there will be a lot of Rian Johnsons in the future that will try and "innovate" the formula to avoid it being stale, which will later make it less appealing to normies.

Truth be told, an "auteur" trying to experiment with Marvel is way more appropriate than whatever the fuck he thought he was doing with Star Wars. A bad installment in a "connected but separated" franchise is a lot more sustainable than kneecapping movie 2 of 3 in something that was specifically advertised as a trilogy.

I don't see the MCU truly bombing until GodKing Fiege is removed from the helm. Kathleen Kennedy don't give a fuck, but Fiege is going to, for better or worse, make damn sure every piece of his puzzle is at least hitting a baseline. Dark World, Captain Marvel, and Iron Man 3 might not have been bangers, but they're not jarringly dogshit to the point of being near inexplainable as to how they ended up in the franchise, either.

 

[SmugAutist]

Truth be told, an "auteur" trying to experiment with Marvel is way more appropriate than whatever the fuck he thought he was doing with Star Wars. A bad installment in a "connected but separated" franchise is a lot more sustainable than kneecapping movie 2 of 3 in something that was specifically advertised as a trilogy.

I don't see the MCU truly bombing until GodKing Fiege is removed from the helm. Kathleen Kennedy don't give a fuck, but Fiege is going to, for better or worse, make damn sure every piece of his puzzle is at least hitting a baseline. Dark World, Captain Marvel, and Iron Man 3 might not have been bangers, but they're not jarringly dogshit to the point of being near inexplainable as to how they ended up in the franchise, either.

I can't remember exactly who said it or even what was exactly said, but the idea was that there were four stages to fads.

The first stage begins when the first movies are made. They're considered long-shots, don't exactly have a lot of star power, and usually get produced on humble budgets. If these projects don't get any attention, then the fad ends then and there. For geek culture, this was the early movies all the way back to the late 90s. X-Men, and Raimi's Spider-Man, eventually getting into Nolan's Batman trilogy (though that one was a bit of an outlier) and the very first MCU movies like Iron Man and that Hulk movie nobody remembers. Sure X-Men had Patrick Stewart, Ian McKellen, and Hugh Jackman but really, these people didn't become really big until after X-Men. Stewart was popular with Trekkies and you didn't know McKellen unless you were a fan of English theater. Downey Jr. was considered a junkie washout before he landed the Iron Man role.

If the fad is successful, it moves into the second stage. This is the moment when the fad really become big, to the point where other fads get placed in the dust. This is the moment when you go all-out on true star power and over 100+ million dollar budgets. The moment geek culture truly reached this phase was in 2011-2012, with the release of Avengers and the conclusion of Nolan's Batman trilogy. It was indisputable that geek culture reigned supreme at the box office and pretty much every studio tried to copy the MCU formula, none of which succeeded (not even other Disney properties!) However, eventually, people do start to get fatigued, and more importantly, the very creators of these products start to get fatigued. I think that the time for this stage was from the first Avengers movie to Endgame.

Which leads us to the third stage: absolute pretentiousness. This is when the people making these billion dollar movies start to get discredited by more serious filmakers, and despite the studios swimming on piles of gold Scrooge McDuck style, they start to get a chip on their shoulder because the Oscar winners start to hurl criticism (whether you think the criticism is fair or not is up to you). Therefore, the studios decided to get some "real" filmaking credit by hiring a bunch of auteurs. This is when you start getting the Rian Johnsons. Even if you liked the movie, Joker is probably the best example for the "subversive" stage and I fully think that we're entering it now. Even if Marvel will not change a bit, the fact that Feige is now trying to sell how different MCU Phase 4 is going to be really tells you the state of things. From trying to introduce sitcoms in WandaVision or saying that Doctor Strange 2 will be a horror story.

The fourth stage is decline. We have not hit it yet because I think we're still the afterglow of the second stage and entering the third stage, but it will happen eventually, regardless of how good Feige is at maintaining consistency.

 

[KillThemCrackasBabies]

I can't remember exactly who said it or even what was exactly said, but the idea was that there were four stages to fads.

The first stage begins when the first movies are made. They're considered long-shots, don't exactly have a lot of star power, and usually get produced on humble budgets. If these projects don't get any attention, then the fad ends then and there. For geek culture, this was the early movies all the way back to the late 90s. X-Men, and Raimi's Spider-Man, eventually getting into Nolan's Batman trilogy (though that one was a bit of an outlier) and the very first MCU movies like Iron Man and that Hulk movie nobody remembers. Sure X-Men had Patrick Stewart, Ian McKellen, and Hugh Jackman but really, these people didn't become really big until after X-Men. Stewart was popular with Trekkies and you didn't know McKellen unless you were a fan of English theater. Downey Jr. was considered a junkie washout before he landed the Iron Man role.

If the fad is successful, it moves into the second stage. This is the moment when the fad really become big, to the point where other fads get placed in the dust. This is the moment when you go all-out on true star power and over 100+ million dollar budgets. The moment geek culture truly reached this phase was in 2011-2012, with the release of Avengers and the conclusion of Nolan's Batman trilogy. It was indisputable that geek culture reigned supreme at the box office and pretty much every studio tried to copy the MCU formula, none of which succeeded (not even other Disney properties!) However, eventually, people do start to get fatigued, and more importantly, the very creators of these products start to get fatigued. I think that the time for this stage was from the first Avengers movie to Endgame.

Which leads us to the third stage: absolute pretentiousness. This is when the people making these billion dollar movies start to get discredited by more serious filmakers, and despite the studios swimming on piles of gold Scrooge McDuck style, they start to get a chip on their shoulder because the Oscar winners start to hurl criticism (whether you think the criticism is fair or not is up to you). Therefore, the studios decided to get some "real" filmaking credit by hiring a bunch of auteurs. This is when you start getting the Rian Johnsons. Even if you liked the movie, Joker is probably the best example for the "subversive" stage and I fully think that we're entering it now. Even if Marvel will not change a bit, the fact that Feige is now trying to sell how different MCU Phase 4 is going to be really tells you the state of things. From trying to introduce sitcoms in WandaVision or saying that Doctor Strange 2 will be a horror story.

The fourth stage is decline. We have not hit it yet because I think we're still the afterglow of the second stage and entering the third stage, but it will happen eventually, regardless of how good Feige is at maintaining consistency.

Truth be told, a little experimentation wouldn't be the worst thing for these movies at this point. You don't want all of them going apeshit, but trying to test the limit here and there wouldn't be out of line. The Disney+ shit is perfect for it, see what the audience has an appetite for and gauge from there.

Like the stages you mentioned, that can also backfire if they get too complacent without some degree on pretentiousness. Raimi's Spider-Man 1 and 2 were the gold standard for capeshit movies in the new millennium, but then every movie from every studio just tried their best to emulate that and were worse for it (Daredevil, Fantastic Four, Ghost Rider, etc etc). Then you get to 2008 and Iron Man improves upon that formula, and then every movie needs to be some variation of that.

Joker is actually a very good example on why it should be encouraged to take the occasional jab at self-indulgent attempts. "The guy who made the Hangover movies is going to make a Taxi Driver inspired Batman universe movie" sounds fucking retarded on it's face, but then you watch it. They gotta do something, and thanks to careful planning, they have more than enough room to attempt to do it all. I'd wager there will be far more hits than misses in the next decade of this shit. The decade after that, who knows.

 

[MooseGump]

Raimi's Spider-Man 1 and 2 were the gold standard for capeshit movies in the new millennium, but then every movie from every studio just tried their best to emulate that and were worse for it (Daredevil, Fantastic Four, Ghost Rider, etc etc). Then you get to 2008 and Iron Man improves upon that formula, and then every movie needs to be some variation of that.

And now we looped back to Raimi Spiderman with the next movie featuring those specific versions (and Garfield spiderman but lol) so it would be funny if it's just a retread of spiderman 1/2's jokes or weird background characters