Mega Rad Gun Thread

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Belgians in the Congo said:
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gun

Decided for the Thunder 380X instead of the HiPower Detective since .380 is naturally subsonic and has a threaded fixed barrel, it's also been really nice to conceal, suggestions on .380 defensive ammo?
Currently just using basic 95 gr FMJs, there's some critical defense .380 HPs but I've heard iffy things on expansion consistency with .380 so for now just FMJs.
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According to the FBI tests the magic numbers for penetration are 12-16”. None of the JHPs on the market can get there if they open up. Your best bet is Hornady Critical Defense or Winchester Defender (PDX1 rebrand) in that order. If Winchester would ever get off there ass and build a bonded tipped .380 round like Ranger One it would likely perform even better then Critical Defense.

As a side note I’m surprised more companies aren’t going the tipped JHP route. Only ones on the market are Hornady Critical Defense,Winchester Ranger One (LE only), Ready Defense (non bonded Ranger One with a fancy nickel coating) and COR-Bon (which is to help with feeding not to improve performance). It solves the issue of debris clogging the hollow-point cavity and preventing opening. I know that both Winchester and Hornady have patents on their respective programs but there are other ways to do the same thing.
 
Smoke Manmuscle said:
According to the FBI tests the magic numbers for penetration are 12-16”. None of the JHPs on the market can get there if they open up. Your best bet is Hornady Critical Defense or Winchester Defender (PDX1 rebrand) in that order. If Winchester would ever get off there ass and build a bonded tipped .380 round like Ranger One it would likely perform even better then Critical Defense.

As a side note I’m surprised more companies aren’t going the tipped JHP route. Only ones on the market are Hornady Critical Defense,Winchester Ranger One (LE only), Ready Defense (non bonded Ranger One with a fancy nickel coating) and COR-Bon (which is to help with feeding not to improve performance). It solves the issue of debris clogging the hollow-point cavity and preventing opening. I know that both Winchester and Hornady have patents on their respective programs but there are other ways to do the same thing.
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I am not sure what you are basing your opinions on, but based off the evidence that I have available, you are incorrect. Here is a video of 380 acp Federal Punch and HST being shot into ballistics gel through a heavy clothing barrier. Punch achieves 15.5" and HST achieves 14.75" penetration.


Like I said, the technology has come quite a ways. I still need to test some of the new offerings out there, and I haven't seen anyone in the guntuber sphere do decent tests of things like Hydra Shok Deep. As for the Winchester Defender 380 acp, the tests I have seen have penetration from 8" to 11.75", which I don't consider to be that good. The Hornady seems more consistent at achieving around 11.5" penetration, if one wanted to go for a proven offering.

As for the tips, they are of dubious efficacy from what I have seen. I have seen tests of the plugs removed and tested, and the expansion is typically better without them, leading me to suspect that the plugs lead to controlled expansion more than preventing clogging. Clogging is an issue with velocity and hollow point design more than anything; those offerings work decently, but I attribute that more to proper hollow point design than anything. I can't help but think of them as gimmicks.
 
Fount of BadSpeak said:
As for the tips, they are of dubious efficacy from what I have seen. I have seen tests of the plugs removed and tested, and the expansion is typically better without them, leading me to suspect that the plugs lead to controlled expansion more than preventing clogging. Clogging is an issue with velocity and hollow point design more than anything; those offerings work decently, but I attribute that more to proper hollow point design than anything. I can't help but think of them as gimmicks.
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The primary aim with the inserts was always to prevent clogging. A clogged HP will act like and FMJ in terms of performance. This will lead to over penetration. In most contract bids, a penetration over 20-22” is an automatic disqualification as the fedbois and major police depts (NY and LA) are risk adverse. They would rather an under penetration not stop a suspect then have to pay out on a pass through hitting a bystander. It also slows the filling of the hollowpoint cavity with fluid which slows expansion. This is an engineering issue that had to be overcome but making a HP open faster is much easier then stopping clogging.

I did forget to mention a couple of other rounds that do something similar to the insert. Browning X-Point which forms an X of lead in the cavity. It’s an elegant solution to get around the patent on the other idea, Federal Hydroshock with a thin cylinder formed out of lead in the center of the cavity. Both suffer from being fragile and hard to manufacture.

Something to remember is almost all major developments in self defense ammo are driven by the FBI get test. It’s only in the past 10 years that the industry started waking up to developing ammo specifically for CCW and not just rebranding LEO ammo.
 
Smoke Manmuscle said:
The primary aim with the inserts was always to prevent clogging. A clogged HP will act like and FMJ in terms of performance. This will lead to over penetration. In most contract bids, a penetration over 20-22” is an automatic disqualification as the fedbois and major police depts (NY and LA) are risk adverse. They would rather an under penetration not stop a suspect then have to pay out on a pass through hitting a bystander. It also slows the filling of the hollowpoint cavity with fluid which slows expansion. This is an engineering issue that had to be overcome but making a HP open faster is much easier then stopping clogging.

I did forget to mention a couple of other rounds that do something similar to the insert. Browning X-Point which forms an X of lead in the cavity. It’s an elegant solution to get around the patent on the other idea, Federal Hydroshock with a thin cylinder formed out of lead in the center of the cavity. Both suffer from being fragile and hard to manufacture.

Something to remember is almost all major developments in self defense ammo are driven by the FBI get test. It’s only in the past 10 years that the industry started waking up to developing ammo specifically for CCW and not just rebranding LEO ammo.
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I know what the stated purpose of the inserts are. I am saying that in reality, they do not perform that function. Feel free to pull the plugs out yourself and try the rounds through four layers of denim or a heavy clothing layer if you do not believe me. Without the plugs, the rounds penetrate a little less and expand more rapidly, as you said, which I think is effectively just compensating for poor hollow point design; here is the one Youtube test I have seen that tried it.


That is why I view them as gimmicks, not actually useful additions, and is why I think many manufacturers do not bother. Velocity and hollow point design will make cloth a nonissue, generally speaking. HST is effectively the JHP king, and it does not need any plug to function reliably or penetrate adequately.

Browning X-Point isn't an elegant solution since it does not work generally (Hydrashocks are solid based off what I have seen though). It's nice branding, but not actually nice function. Pretty much all of these are marketing, and every single instance I see of the x point functioning as designed is not fired into a clothing barrier, which IMO renders the test utterly worthless. Just because many carry options are marketed initially to LEO and feds doesn't change the fact that they are using marketing gimmicks to try to make their product seem better than it is. They are still selling a product to people, they are just people with a badge.



40 S&W seems a bit better but also overpenetrates based off of this.


I am well aware that gel tests are the standard. That is why I am referring to them for information rather than taking my redneck tests as gospel. Barring access to whatever LEO or fed tests that are supposedly being conducted, this is what I have to go off of. The tests I see from manufacturers are typically worthless since they use bare gel, and I do not put any stock in their results whatsoever.
 
Fount of BadSpeak said:
As for the tips, they are of dubious efficacy from what I have seen. I have seen tests of the plugs removed and tested, and the expansion is typically better without them, leading me to suspect that the plugs lead to controlled expansion more than preventing clogging
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I don't know about handgun ballistic tips but they've been proven performers in Rifles of about 100 years now.
 
With a ban on lead ammunition in the U.K coming in 2030 we can expect the prices for high quality English guns and rifles to plummet in the U.K and importation into the U.S and Europe to increase.

it'll be a good buying opportunity for those looking.
 
Romulus augustulus said:
With a ban on lead ammunition in the U.K coming in 2030 we can expect the prices for high quality English guns and rifles to plummet in the U.K and importation into the U.S and Europe to increase.

it'll be a good buying opportunity for those looking.
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Shotguns absolutely, my damascus hammerguns are going off to auction because fuck paying for low power bismuth cartridges at 1 kidney per box. Rifles not so much I reckon, there's copper monolithics available in any calibre sensible to take deer.
 
Romulus augustulus said:
With a ban on lead ammunition in the U.K coming in 2030 we can expect the prices for high quality English guns and rifles to plummet in the U.K and importation into the U.S and Europe to increase.

it'll be a good buying opportunity for those looking.
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Geoff Capes Vapes Apes said:
Shotguns absolutely, my damascus hammerguns are going off to auction because fuck paying for low power bismuth cartridges at 1 kidney per box. Rifles not so much I reckon, there's copper monolithics available in any calibre sensible to take deer.
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Daily reminder that if we don't protect our rights this is where we will end up. Once you lose them, you don't get them back. Reading this shit makes me feel physically ill. I cannot imagine a country and it's people that's more cucked then the UK.
 
888Flux said:
Daily reminder that if we don't protect our rights this is where we will end up. Once you lose them, you don't get them back. Reading this shit makes me feel physically ill. I cannot imagine a country and it's people that's more cucked then the UK.
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What the fuck are you talking about you half witted spawn of nigger cousins? Using lead shot for waterfowling has been illegal in the US since 1991, use of lead ammunition for any hunting is completely illegal in California. Get your own house in order and water the tree of liberty with the corn syrup you have in place of blood you fat spastic.

If anything I'm just going to buy a second, better shotgun and crack on shooting ducks and pheasants with steel instead. Lead ammunition is still completely legal for range use so it'll make absolutely no difference there, and if I'm going out after deer I'd rather it not be full of lead.
 
Geoff Capes Vapes Apes said:
Get your own house in order and water the tree of liberty with the corn syrup you have in place of blood you fat spastic.
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The Bongistani is immunized against all dangers: one may call him an anglo, a limey, a cuckold, it all runs off him like water off a raincoat. But call him Mohammed and you will be astonished at how he recoils, how he suddenly shrinks back: “I’ve been found out.”
البريطاني محصن ضد كل المخاطر: قد يصفه أحدهم بأنه أنجلو، أو ليمي، أو مخدوع، لكن كل ذلك يزول عنه كما يزول الماء عن معطفه. لكن لو وصفته بمحمد، لدهشت من تراجعه، وتراجعه المفاجئ: "لقد انكشف أمري".
 
888Flux said:
The Bongistani is immunized against all dangers: one may call him an anglo, a limey, a cuckold, it all runs off him like water off a raincoat. But call him Mohammed and you will be astonished at how he recoils, how he suddenly shrinks back: “I’ve been found out.”
البريطاني محصن ضد كل المخاطر: قد يصفه أحدهم بأنه أنجلو، أو ليمي، أو مخدوع، لكن كل ذلك يزول عنه كما يزول الماء عن معطفه. لكن لو وصفته بمحمد، لدهشت من تراجعه، وتراجعه المفاجئ: "لقد انكشف أمري".
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I'd ask if I hit a nerve, but that would be a hell of an achievement on someone who washes themself with a rag on a stick and has to ride around Walmart on a scooter to get his bottles of HFCS goyslop.

American culture is centered around niggers. They have holidays for niggers. They killed hundreds of thousands of white men to free niggers. They listen to nigger music. They elect a nigger as their president. They dress and act like niggers. They draw the entirety of their modern culture from niggers. They post sassy gifs about niggers. They watch sportsball in worship of niggers. Their biggest event of the year involves throwing parties in honor of niggers playing sports. They use nigger slang like "bruh" and "thot". When you say "Martin Luther" they're not thinking of the father of protestantism. They're thinking of the nigger. Their cities are completely overrun with niggers. They worship their ZOGbot police force disproportionately filled with niggers and their global police force of soldiers filled with niggers. Their men sit around watching nigger ball while their women sit around watching nigger talk shows. They worship niggers like Muhammad Ali and Michael Jordan and Michael Jackson and the late Mike Tyson while attacking the whites who actually built their country before niggers took over. Their movies are filled with niggers and their music charts are topped by niggers. They send niggers to the Olympics and celebrate when the niggers win because those niggers are true red blooded american niggers. They watch nigger porn to a point where "BBC" does not make them think of an international media company but about nigger penises instead. They will tell you how much they hate niggers and how the mutt's law meme is a stale joke and they are just pretending to love niggers but the evidence speaks for itself in that America has always been and will be a nation of nigger loving niggers
 
British elite.webp
 
Fount of BadSpeak said:
I am well aware that gel tests are the standard. That is why I am referring to them for information rather than taking my redneck tests as gospel. Barring access to whatever LEO or fed tests that are supposedly being conducted, this is what I have to go off of. The tests I see from manufacturers are typically worthless since they use bare gel, and I do not put any stock in their results whatsoever.
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Due to my job have seen the results of those tests. Also an interesting thing that came out about 5 years ago is a comparison of clear gel to actual ballistics gel. I’m trying to find a copy but Hornady did a side by side test of clear gel to ballistics gel. Overall clear gel will have 1-2” less penetration and about 10-15% less expansion.

In addition clear ballistics gel is not qualified on every block. They qualify a lot and then use that qualification on the every block made from that lot. Real gel testing requires every block to be qualified right before use.

Assuming the same type of block is used, they both can be used to draw comparisons between ammo types to see general performance, IE which one expands more, which one has deeper penetration. But for absolutes, clear gel is not a substitute.
 
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