Mega Rad Gun Thread

[BikeLock]

You do you, bro. It's probably a helluva lot cheaper than buying the real thing, and if it's the only way to scratch a particular itch that you have then go for it. I've only ever bought three guns because of pop culture. The first was the SPAS-12, which was a disappointment to me. The second was my HK Mark 23, which has been everything I ever hoped it would be and more. The third has been my Vector, which I'm still breaking in and had a few jams with the first time I shot it, but I'm optimistic about it and hope that once it is broken in that it will be reliable enough for home defense.

Yeah... everything that I've heard about the SPAS-12 is that a Beneli M3 is better, outside of the looks.

 

[Foley]

It makes me MATI to hear the Air Force is just deciding to simp for sig by continuing to carry the M18, just with an empty chamber. I called it and it still pisses me off. That means they'll need to change how they teach the handgun qual at CATM, because the current training of drawing and firing is going to be real unfortunate if an incident occurs and they get fucked by muscle memory, thinking they already have a round chambered. Just bring the fucking M9 back, drop the massive taxpayers loss that is the Sig.

Just because that is the temporary action, doesn't mean it will continue forever. Unlike the civilian world, they can't make these decisions without a bureaucratic process. And meanwhile, they need handguns and using them in a retarded way to make it at least safe is still better than no handgun at all. Even if they dropped the M17/M18 yesterday and went back to M9, doesn't mean those M9s suddenly appear in the use of the Air Force does it?

 

[WhoBusTank69]

It makes me MATI to hear the Air Force is just deciding to simp for sig by continuing to carry the M18, just with an empty chamber. I called it and it still pisses me off. That means they'll need to change how they teach the handgun qual at CATM, because the current training of drawing and firing is going to be real unfortunate if an incident occurs and they get fucked by muscle memory, thinking they already have a round chambered. Just bring the fucking M9 back, drop the massive taxpayers loss that is the Sig.

Hilarious! I guess we may as well Israeli carry now instead of fixing the problem. I mean it's not like said airmen would be the most likely to actually use their sidearm.

The USMC has already put Israeli carry into place ever since a gate guard's pistol went off in its holster, on camera and with a witness. I guess the Army and NG are the last to make the change.

I wonder if this is going to be 'voluntary upgrade 2', or if Sig was just hoping to quietly replace all new production with this and hope the whole discharge issue just went away (fat fucking chance of that now).

It would probably cost too much and as soon as a 320 without a manual safety goes off on camera again we'll be back at square one.

 

[DavidS877]

Seems to me that since 'manipulating the slide' can cause a discharge that perhaps the next incident we'll see is when someone pulls out their weapon, racks the slide and it goes off as soon as the round is chambered. Not that I have any idea on if this is possible with the failure mode being seen.

 

[AGPinochet]

I realized I haven't checked on Brice in a while and he has shown more of his VSS its still pretty much gone no-where. He has however collabed with a tranny that was posted here or the guntuber thread, I think this is the one that had a ND in their shop or room or something. I can't recall.
View attachment 7737843

Spoiler: Abandon all hope, ye who enter here

View attachment 7737866

I doxed said tranny

wouldn't be a Kiwifarms post without some Transphobia
A gross tranny (POWER WORD: MICHAEL CRUMLING, Born 1989) has made an AR out of scrap metal with a few COTS parts, it is functional and full auto (He is an SOTranny)

What happened Brice? I thought stamping metal was like folding paper?

 

[Pretend To Imagine]

The irony of the US military doctrine being “Israeli Carry” is hilarious.

 

[Internet-Based Lobotomy]

Seems to me that since 'manipulating the slide' can cause a discharge that perhaps the next incident we'll see is when someone pulls out their weapon, racks the slide and it goes off as soon as the round is chambered. Not that I have any idea on if this is possible with the failure mode being seen.

Well I guess as far as the military is concerned at least you'll have cleared leather and be pointing it in an area you mean to shoot at.

The irony of the US military doctrine being “Israeli Carry” is hilarious.

At this rate we may as well adopt the flag.

 

[HelpingNoone]

I'm going to continue beating the dead horse that is the P320 because it's funny

A patent from May of this year was found for an improved sear/manual safety combination that actually blocks the sear rather than just the trigger when the safety is actuated.
It would be interesting to see if all of the problems actually do stem from the hole in the back of the slide letting debris settle on the sear.

This guy should get a nice payday if they use his design. They don't look like they are applicants on the patent. I'm sure SIG will try to go after him for the intellectual property depending on his non-compete clause.


Has anyone heard reports that there is a criminal investigation to the P320 airman shooting? Ben now seems to think there is more to the story than the gun going off. I've seen people in random comment sections saying there was some horseplay, a fight, or something else going on. I can't find anything to verify tho.

 

[BikeLock]

The irony of the US military doctrine being “Israeli Carry” is hilarious.

It's even more funny when you know that Ron Cohen himself is an IDF Veteran.

 

[WhoBusTank69]

Has anyone heard reports that there is a criminal investigation to the P320 airman shooting? Ben now seems to think there is more to the story than the gun going off. I've seen people in random comment sections saying there was some horseplay, a fight, or something else going on. I can't find anything to verify tho.

As Ben said, there's going to be an investigation regardless so I don't feel I trust the rumor mill. If it turns out the airman and his buddy were playing catch with it in the breakroom then it's going to be swept under the rug and nobody would hear about it anyway.

 

[BikeLock]

Here's a fun vid of Bubba describing how good his pissin' hawt reloads are as Johnny Glock rebuilds Bubba's blown up Glock 21SF.

 

[Muskie]

It makes me MATI to hear the Air Force is just deciding to simp for sig by continuing to carry the M18, just with an empty chamber. I called it and it still pisses me off. That means they'll need to change how they teach the handgun qual at CATM, because the current training of drawing and firing is going to be real unfortunate if an incident occurs and they get fucked by muscle memory, thinking they already have a round chambered. Just bring the fucking M9 back, drop the massive taxpayers loss that is the Sig.

I was at an airshow a few weeks ago where armed members of the Airforce were present and they all had m4's but no sigs. The plate the holster is attached to was present on their belts. I asked them where thier 320's were and they asked me if I heard about the incident, apparently they were told to leave them behind. I don't know if this has changed since.

 

[Bassomatic]

Dr. Basso's first AR trigger job. Clearly did the inside too.

For my bday poppa basso got me a gun smith intro class. I can't tell you how much FUN I had. Learned a ton, chatted he was honestly impressed how much I knew. Made me feel good since I do my own mil surp parts builds etc doing em right I never was sure.

We built my parts for an AR kit. Was great having a pro show me vs the cobble jobs I've made (perhaps I'm being too humble on myself) learned so much.

We also cleaned up my makarovs trigger for a shit beater summer carry it's a lot nicer. I have a bunch of stuff I don't mind working on practice makes perfect .

Few cool tips to share. Glue sand paper to a Popsicle stick always a flat surface. Hand do triggers it's too easy to get aggressive.

If you look carefully we did touch this with a grinder because I'm a South paw so my finger sits little better. A great detail and one I'd never think of!

He also said liking mil surp is great and all but if I want a 308 semi AR10 is way to go compared to the FAL/G3s hes built and dealt with.

It's a crummy phone pic but yourself in the trigger!

Still trying to get poppa basso to listen pistol grip 12g 3" shells are not a good HD setup but boomers gonna boom.

Lastly as I'm done gloating (it really was a good time and gave me confidence) sig lmao LMAO.

Pa (my state) might allow semi auto hunting... Grab SKS go innawoods

 

[WASR96]

I was at an airshow a few weeks ago where armed members of the Airforce were present and they all had m4's but no sigs. The plate the holster is attached to was present on their belts. I asked them where thier 320's were and they asked me if I heard about the incident, apparently they were told to leave them behind. I don't know if this has changed since.

Was told by a buddy who is still in that they resumed carrying, at least at his base. He's at an AFGSC base too, so Global Strike must have given the go ahead on empty chamber carry.

 

[TheOtherSideofMakeBelieve]

Here's a fun vid of Bubba describing how good his pissin' hawt reloads are as Johnny Glock rebuilds Bubba's blown up Glock 21SF.

Definitely feel for the guy. He was following someone else's directions because he couldn't get the powder he normally uses. I've got a cabinet full of all my powders but I'm getting low on my pistol powder, I've been on several mailing lists and stalking the local gun stores and no one's had it in over two years at this point. I guess the moral of the story is at least start with manufacturer recommended loads and work your way up from there rather than mystery loads you find on random forums lol

Crazy that the gun was still functional with the trigger literally completely snapped off and just kind of wedged in the trigger slot

 

[Sauro]

Yesterday I was browsing Guns dot com and I found a used Century Arms Centurion that was in very good condition priced for like $250. I was so hyped but when I looked just a minute ago it had already been sold. I’m a fool for not buying it right then and there….

Anyway what do you guys think I should get for my first ever firearm purchase? I don’t want anything from Hi-Point but maybe from Taurus if it’s a high recommendation. My budget is 600 bucks but I’m good with both new and used firearms

 

[Boney]

My budget is 600 bucks but I’m good with both new and used firearms

Glock 19.

 

[AGPinochet]

Saars Bloody Benchod bastard bitch donal traamp has imposed the tariff on all superpower India products!!!!

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-india-tariffs-25-percent-russian-oil/#:~:text=Washington%20%E2%80%94%20President%20Trump%20signed%20an%20executive%20order,because%20it%20continues%20to%20buy%20oil%20from%20Russia.

A few things can happen here
1. Nothing happens because akshually Sig parts are all now 100% Made in America out of American Steel, Glock Goobers, M&P Mongoloids, Ruger Retards BTFO
2. SIG has to raise their prices across the board potentially decreasing sales
3. Sig somehow acquires an exemption (not even sure if this is possible even if Trump really wanted to do it)
4. Ron Cohen becomes The Raped, Sig runs out of money to pay legal bills

 

[likeacrackado]

Yesterday I was browsing Guns dot com and I found a used Century Arms Centurion that was in very good condition priced for like $250. I was so hyped but when I looked just a minute ago it had already been sold. I’m a fool for not buying it right then and there….

Anyway what do you guys think I should get for my first ever firearm purchase? I don’t want anything from Hi-Point but maybe from Taurus if it’s a high recommendation. My budget is 600 bucks but I’m good with both new and used firearms

Assuming you're an American in a normal state, I think the general consensus would be a very good to good condition glock 19/17 police trade-in plus a couple mags, depending on how many it comes with. Besides used Glocks theres new or used M&P 2.0s, CZ P10s and a bunch of other things above the Taurus tier. For $600 you can buy something decent and have money left for ammo.

A few things can happen here
1. Nothing happens because akshually Sig parts are all now 100% Made in America out of American Steel, Glock Goobers, M&P Mongoloids, Ruger Retards BTFO
2. SIG has to raise their prices across the board potentially decreasing sales
3. Sig somehow acquires an exemption (not even sure if this is possible even if Trump really wanted to do it)
4. Ron Cohen becomes The Raped, Sig runs out of money to pay legal bills

Cohen & Co. are well versed in creative import/export techniques if need be.

 

[Polock]

https://rumble.com/v6x6mv6-live-with-sig-sauers-vice-president-consumer-affairs-about-the-p320-and-the.html

I was just shared this link and some timestamps but I don't have the time to review it at the moment, but it should be interesting.

Minute 16: he starts talking with the Sig VP
Minute 31: they start talking about the P320
Minute 44: they start talking about Serpa holsters

Spoiler: AI Generated Cliffnotes

1. Phil Strader's Background & Role at SIG Sauer
• Early Career & Police Work: Starts his career as a police officer in 1993, with no prior extensive firearm experience. He later joined the US Capitol Police in Washington D.C. in 1997, working nights and eventually transitioning to a full-time firearms instructor.
• Competitive Shooting Journey: Discovered IPSC/USPSA in 1993 and quickly progressed, becoming a Grandmaster by 1999. He won "High Law Enforcement" at nationals 16 times in a row until resigning from Capitol Police.
• Business Ventures & USPSA Leadership: Purchased an indoor range and gun store in Woodbridge, Virginia, in 2002, where he sponsored a successful shooting team. Later became Area 4 Director for USPSA (2010-2012) and then President of USPSA (2012-2016).
• Joining SIG Sauer: Contacted by SIG Sauer almost 10 years ago (around 2016) after Remington Defense went under, and has been competing and shooting since. He is currently the Vice President of Consumer Affairs at SIG Sauer.
• Personal Trust in P320: Strader expresses high personal trust in the P320, using it in competition and stating he would "kick down the CEO's door" if he believed there was a mechanical flaw causing uncommanded discharges.
2. P320 Usage Data & Context
• Overall Production & Reported Incidents: SIG Sauer has produced approximately 3.5 million P320 firearms, with only 300 to 350 reported unintentional discharges. Strader describes this as a "very very very small number".
• Competitive Shooting (USPSA):
◦ For the past 11 years, the P320 has averaged about 30% of firearms used in the Carry Optics and Production divisions within USPSA.
◦ USPSA reports an annual average of approximately 200,000 match results.
◦ Strader states there have been no issues with the P320 at any of these USPSA matches over the past 11 years, emphasizing that this "statistic speaks volumes".
◦ He is confident USPSA will not ban the P320, as they rely on data.
• SIG Sauer Academy Usage:
◦ Since opening, the SIG Academy has fired approximately 29 million rounds in training classes, averaging about 1.5 million rounds per year.
◦ In the two years Phil Strader ran the academy, where 2.5 to 3 million rounds were fired, there were only two negligent discharges with handguns. One was a P365 where the user admitted pulling the trigger, and the other was a P320 where video evidence showed the user's middle finger pulling the trigger while improperly holstering.
◦ Strader states that alleged "uncommanded" discharges did not occur during his time running the academy.
• Shoot SIG Events:
◦ These events, where 95% of firearms used are SIG products, have had no issues with unintentional discharges.
◦ This is attributed to shooting primarily from a "high ready" position, with less dynamic holstering and unholstering, where most unintentional trigger contacts occur.
• Law Enforcement and Military Contracts:
◦ SIG has secured numerous contracts with various agencies, including DHS ICE (who recently renewed their contract until July 2027), Michigan State Police, the US Army, US Marine Corps, Canadian Special Forces, and Australian Defense.
◦ These agencies conduct their own rigorous testing "beyond imagination" before adoption.
3. Nature of Unintentional Discharges
• Fundamental Cause: Phil Strader emphasizes that if a firearm discharges, the "trigger was pulled". For the M17/M18, this also means the manual safety was disengaged.
• Not Unique to P320: He asserts that unintentional and negligent discharges are not unique to the P320 and happen with other firearms as well.
◦ He cites instances where objects like shirts, jackets, or keys caused trigger contact, even with pistols featuring tab triggers.
◦ His own experience as a police officer included numerous unintentional discharges when his department transitioned from double-action to striker-fired pistols, with officers often believing they didn't touch the trigger.
• Holster Intrusion Factors: The increased use of wider flashlights on pistols necessitates holsters with larger gaps, which contributes to foreign object intrusion. He mentions a Dodge Charger seatbelt bulletin regarding seatbelt latches getting caught in holsters.
• P320 Trigger Characteristics: The P320 has a "really good trigger" (5.5 to 7.5 lbs), which aids officer accuracy, but this, coupled with increased market share, can lead to more reported incidents due to poor trigger finger management or holster intrusions.
4. SIG Sauer's Response & Defense
• No Mechanical Defect: SIG Sauer maintains that extensive testing by their own teams, third parties (like Dayton Brown), and even opposing counsel's experts, has never been able to make a P320 fire without a trigger pull.
• Voluntary Upgrade Program (2017/201:
◦ Initiated after military trials identified a rare vulnerability at an "outside of spec" drop angle (-30 degrees from 6 feet).
◦ Involved mechanical changes (lighter trigger/sear/striker, added sear leg, captive safety lever) to ensure the gun would pass this higher, more extreme drop standard.
◦ 25-30% of P320s were returned for this free upgrade.
• "It Ends Today" Campaign: This "aggressive stance" was intended to counter "knee-jerk reactions" and bans from law enforcement training organizations. Strader acknowledges it was "not received well" and would likely have been worded differently in hindsight.
• Owner's Manual Language: The updated language about carrying "without a round in the chamber" is defended as generic legal boilerplate found in many other manufacturers' manuals, not a specific warning unique to the P320. It is intended to educate potentially first-time gun owners.
• "India MIM Parts": SIG uses Metal Injected Molding (MIM) parts from Indo-MIM in India (described as "one of the best in the business") and also from Texas. Strader assures there are "no level of durability issues" with these parts, noting they are used for intricate designs as an easier and less expensive mass-production method, and SIG has rigorous quality control, including personnel at supplier facilities.
• Patent Allegations: Strader addresses claims about a patent filed by a former SIG engineer alleging the P320 is "incomplete [and] unsafe," dismissing it as addressing a theoretical vulnerability that their current, post-upgrade pistols already overcome. He implies the former "terminated" employee may be seeking "attention".
• Future Strategy: SIG plans to develop a video library featuring Phil Strader to address common questions, refute misinformation, and provide clear, consistent company-backed responses to concerns about the P320's safety and mechanics. The goal is to "attack it head on" and provide a consistent message, as statements or reports are often not read by the public.
5. Specific Incidents & Rebuttals
• Holstering Incident (Middle Finger Video): Strader provides a detailed breakdown of a viral video, asserting that the discharge was caused by the user's middle finger (not the trigger finger) pulling the trigger during improper holstering, and questions why the M17's manual safety was not engaged.
• Police Officer Exiting Vehicle (Sarasota PD Video): This incident is attributed to a foreign object (like a bag or keys) causing holster intrusion as the officer exited the vehicle, pulling the trigger. Strader notes this is not unique to the P320.
• Montville Police Department Incident (Keys Video): Strader explains this incident as a "fluke accident" where a key on a sergeant's belt likely caught the trigger as the officer stood up and bumped into him. He has replicated this scenario with keys and other pistols, emphasizing that the trigger was pulled.
6. Bans, Investigations, and Rebuilding Trust
• Widespread Bans: Hundreds of ranges, clubs, and departments have banned the P320, which is "really tough" for the shooting sports community.
• IDPA Ban: Phil Strader personally contacted IDPA leadership and headquarters minutes after their ban was announced, providing information and attempting to correct misinterpretations, particularly regarding the Air Force incident and a misinterpreted DHS memo. IDPA's ban is described as "temporary".
• FBI Investigation (Michigan State Police): Michigan State Police sent a P320 (after an officer's firearm discharged in a holster) to the FBI Ballistics Research Facility. SIG Sauer actively cooperated and worked with both the FBI and Michigan State Police to develop an apparatus to simulate the FBI's desired test, leading to a "100% pass rate" for the P320 in retests. This FBI follow-up report confirmed the gun's safety ("the gun's safe. The gun only fires on a trigger pull."), leading Michigan State Police to retain the P320 and adjust equipment (e.g., thinner lights, holsters to close gaps).
• Air Force Incident: While sensitive, Strader states two facts known: the manual safety was disengaged, and the trigger was pulled. The Air Force's pause on P320 use is described as a "cautionary note" and "totally normal" during an investigation, not a claim of unsafety.
• DHS ICE Contract Renewal: Despite whistleblower reports and misinterpretations, DHS ICE renewed their P320 contract until July 2027, indicating continued trust in the firearm.
• Reaching Out to Organizations: Strader is personally reaching out to organizations that have banned the P320 to educate them with data and facts. He expresses patience, believing the facts will eventually prevail.
• Addressing Perception: Acknowledges that public perception is heavily influenced by social media and "influencer entertainment videos" that gain views from controversy. SIG aims to counter this by providing clear, fact-based information directly to the public through new video content.
• "Strongly Worded Letters": SIG's legal department sends letters to agencies/training organizations, encouraging them to reconsider bans, arguing these actions damage SIG's reputation and erode police officer confidence based on non-factual information.
• No Buyback/Recall Program: There are no plans for a buyback program or recall.
• Employee Morale: Strader notes that while some employees, especially those not deeply ingrained in gun culture, might question the P320's safety due to internet rumors, no employees have quit over this. He plans town hall meetings to address employee concerns with data and facts.
7. Technical Aspects & Quality Control
• Drop Testing (SIG's Standards):
◦ SIG's internal drop testing exceeds NATO and Sammy standards. They drop P320s from 6 feet (vs. NATO's 5 feet) on concrete, at 26 orientations (vs. NATO's 6).
◦ This involves 130 drops per five guns tested, with checks for discharge and function after every drop.
◦ Since the 2017/2018 upgrade, P320 models have been dropped 1,186 times at critical angles (75, 90, 105 degrees) with zero failures.
• Sear/Striker Mechanism: Strader explains that forcing the sear down (a method used in some tests and by the FBI) with a punch directly forces the trigger to the rear, demonstrating it still requires a "trigger pull" (mechanical actuation).
• Manufacturing Quality Control (Auto Gauges):
◦ SIG employs automated "auto gauges" on the assembly line that perform over 30 function test steps on each P320, ensuring all components and tolerances are within spec. This eliminates human error.
◦ These machines specifically prevent issues like the alleged installation of a 10mm takedown lever into a 9mm pistol (a claim made by a YouTuber), which Strader states has "never happened in the history of the P320 build process".
◦ SIG has even added double redundancy checks post-range based on customer concerns.
• Trigger Blade Safety: SIG initially offered a P320 with a tab trigger, but it was not popular. Tab triggers were primarily designed to pass drop safety tests, which SIG's P320 already achieves without one due to its design. Strader can replicate foreign object intrusions even with pistols that have tab triggers.
• Part Tolerance Measurements: SIG has rigorous incoming parts inspection and employs a "process capability level" of manufacturing, with personnel at supplier facilities (including Indo-MIM in India and a factory in Texas) to ensure quality control. This has significantly reduced defective parts.
• Send-in for Inspection: While there's no specific "well-being check" program, customers with suspected malfunctions should contact customer service, who are trained to guide them through checks for wear items or issues. The heavy use in shooting sports acts as an "ultimate proving ground" for durability.
8. Outlook and Call to Action
• Public Perception: Acknowledges that despite factual data, some people will always dislike SIG or refuse to believe the facts, comparing it to "Chevy Ford" debates.
• Call for Education & Awareness: Strader's goal is to educate the public on the mechanics of the P320, the extensive testing it undergoes, and the real causes of unintentional discharges, which invariably involve a trigger pull. This includes educating law enforcement agencies on equipment awareness and proper holstering practices.
• Continued Support for Shooting Sports: Both Phil Strader and the host emphasize their unwavering support for the shooting sports, viewing them as a crucial "proving ground" for firearms and essential for the Second Amendment.

It appears he covers basically everything surrounding the drama involved. He doesn't mention anything regarding Cohen doing an illegal arms deal.

An interesting thing is hearing that they worked with the FBI to re-do the tests they did in 2024, but didnt tell anyone about it until July 29, 2025. As far as I can tell there are no documents we can look at. Even if we did have documents, it feels a bit like "We did an internal investigation on ourselves and found no issues"

Another interesting claim is that in the recent airman death, he says that the trigger WAS pulled.

Lastly, in the video with the Serpa holster, he makes the claim that the guys finger was on the trigger but I watched it frame by frame and I wouldn't be able to many any declarative statements about whether it was or wasnt inside of the trigger guard - I don't see his trigger finger until later in his reactive movement. Additionally, it looks to me like the gun is fully seated in the holster (you can see the end of the slide/frame just barely stick out of the end of it) and then fires. If his finger WAS in the trigger guard when he was holstering (causing the top lip of the holster to push his finger into the trigger) I would have expected the gun to go off much sooner in the holstering motion.

Ultimately I think he did a decent job trying to address everything point by point and I definitely agree that its extremely easy to get wrapped up in the CURRENT THING NEGATIVE COVERAGE CLICKBAIT VORTEX. Still not buying anything Sig. To be fair, I will be willing to reevaluate the company a couple of years after Cohen gets his golden parachute.

Spoiler: Convenient Super Duper Slow Mo for Your Viewing Pleasure

Full screen viewing recommended

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Local archive of audio of the podcast, youtube short