Mega Rad Gun Thread

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Does anyone have any firsthand experience with Palmetto State Armory's in-house AR-10 line? The youtube reviewer and gun website consensus seems to be that they punch above their weight for the price, quality-wise. Even so, I don't want to get stuck with a $1k lemon if the consensus is wrong.
 
Mister DNA said:
Does anyone have any firsthand experience with Palmetto State Armory's in-house AR-10 line? The youtube reviewer and gun website consensus seems to be that they punch above their weight for the price, quality-wise. Even so, I don't want to get stuck with a $1k lemon if the consensus is wrong.
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Club Sandwich said:
they seem okay from when i messed around with a friend's rifle. they aren't DPMS or AR-10 specification exactly, although some parts are compatible. they're their own thing and have a bit of both popular specifications going for it.
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Speaking of, there's a few of those early DPMS FAL clones floating around where I live, and are priced in the same ballpark as the AR-10s (along with a newer DSA SA-58, which honestly seems a bit steep).
 
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Pocket Dragoon said:
DPMS FAL clone
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i'm not familiar with DPMS making FAL clones. most early ones were either foreign manufacture and imported (Century imported BSA or IMBEL) or a mixture of domestic and imported parts (with some stranger storied ones like the Century R1A1...). you also see some kit builds of varying levels of quality (Hesse receivers with Argentine parts kit bashed with Israeli furniture and small parts...). DSA tends to make good rifles but have had issues with receivers in the past, to the point where consistency made completing a build difficult. the modern DSA SA-58 is a fairly decent rifle although i don't think it would be worth much more than $1500 or so brand new and would depend a little on the exact SA-58 variation.

if you want something economical with easy to find common parts and a robust domestic market, one of the AR-10 pattern rifles that adhere to either the DPMS or AR-10 specifications would probably suit your needs.
 
MrJokerRager said:
Anderson Manufacturing and Spikes Tactical
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okay budget brands and Spike's is kinda cringy or try hard depending on the product. the ST-2 buffer from Spike's is kind of interesting for a high rate of automatic fire n mitigating bolt bounce instead of going the way of VLTOR's A5 kit, but this won't be an issue for someone shooting semi-auto really. Andersen's AR-10 muzzle brake is pretty good and functions similarly to a combination of SureFire's ProComp and Lantac's older Dragon model (with only two compensation ports). you could do a lot worse than either and other than OEM manufacturing and sometimes outsourcing for some parts like some of Spike's receivers, i wouldn't worry too much about it.

a lot of AR-15 parts makers are very average and other than some specific products tend to make things in line with their competitors because the AR-15 and most AR-10's have been a known quantity in the aftermarket parts game for decades and the standouts will either be very poorly made (Hesse/Vulcan) or somewhat overpriced and gimmicky (HERA) or reliant on brand recognition with good or better than average quality (KAC, LMT). the rest fall into different parts of the supply chain as OEM suppliers or specialty vendors.

even for the "bad" manufacturers, it might be specific products or product lines (ProMag can be hit or miss), consistency or QC issues on new products (Palmetto State Armory), or experiments that flat out don't work (Federal Ordnance's cast receivers if you're old enough to remember those, or more recently the Remington R9). fantasy manufacturers like Atchisson's AA-12, "made" by MPS don't really count since they basically make nothing and sell nothing, surviving on random sales of parts and OEM production of other people's products than their own.
 
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Club Sandwich said:
i'm not familiar with DPMS making FAL clones. most early ones were either foreign manufacture and imported (Century imported BSA or IMBEL) or a mixture of domestic and imported parts (with some stranger storied ones like the Century R1A1...). you also see some kit builds of varying levels of quality. DSA tends to make good rifles but have had issues with receivers in the past, to the point where consistency made completing a build difficult.
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The two I was looking at are very early, built on parts kits with DPMS receivers, which is what initially put me off, aside from the price tags. I just remembered seeing them in Shotgun News, circa 2005. And wanting one very badly, as "normal" FALs were unaffordable & unobtainable.
Club Sandwich said:
the modern DSA SA-58 is a fairly decent rifle although i don't think it would be worth much more than $1500 or so brand new and would depend a little on the exact SA-58 variation.

if you want something economical with easy to find common parts and a robust domestic market, one of the AR-10 pattern rifles that adhere to either the DPMS or AR-10 specifications would probably suit your needs.
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I thought DPMS got subsumed by DSA, or at least a bunch of their parts had done? But in any case, they're all the same prices around here; except the retro FALs & AR-10s are premium.
 
Pocket Dragoon said:
DPMS got subsumed by DSA
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not that i'm remotely aware of. DS Arms was originally an importer and accessory maker for the StG 58 series of metric rifles and eventually bought tooling to produce their own. a lot of parts kits have used DSA/Coonan/Entreprise Arms receivers over the years. are you sure the receiver was DPMS and not DSA?

DPMS was a partnership of Panther Arms and Luth Manufacturing for producing and selling accessories and doing service work on military contracts, usually refurbishment stuff. they were really big in the AR-15 OEM market for lots of stuff. eventually they were bought by Freedom Group and some assets were sold to reduce debt. DPMS has never done anything for the FAL/SLR other than a couple specific accessories like a scope mount and some 922r compliance parts for importers like US made pistol grips and magazine floor plates.

i would like to see a DPMS receiver for the FAL, that would be pretty interesting to examine.
 
Club Sandwich said:
okay budget brands and Spike's is kinda cringy or try hard depending on the product. the ST-2 buffer from Spike's is kind of interesting for a high rate of automatic fire n mitigating bolt bounce instead of going the way of VLTOR's A5 kit, but this won't be an issue for someone shooting semi-auto really. Andersen's AR-10 muzzle brake is pretty good and functions similarly to a combination of SureFire's ProComp and Lantac's older Dragon model (with only two compensation ports). you could do a lot worse than either and other than OEM manufacturing and sometimes outsourcing for some parts like some of Spike's receivers, i wouldn't worry too much about it.

a lot of AR-15 parts makers are very average and other than some specific products tend to make things in line with their competitors because the AR-15 and most AR-10's have been a known quantity in the aftermarket parts game for decades and the standouts will either be very poorly made (Hesse/Vulcan) or somewhat overpriced and gimmicky (HERA) or reliant on brand recognition with good or better than average quality (KAC, LMT). the rest fall into different parts of the supply chain as OEM suppliers or specialty vendors.

even for the "bad" manufacturers, it might be specific products or product lines (ProMag can be hit or miss), consistency or QC issues on new products (Palmetto State Armory), or experiments that flat out don't work (Federal Ordnance's cast receivers if you're old enough to remember those, or more recently the Remington R9). fantasy manufacturers like Atchisson's AA-12, "made" by MPS don't really count since they basically make nothing and sell nothing, surviving on random sales of parts and OEM production of other people's products than their own.
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My understanding is that the top of the line is CMMG, Bravo Company and Daniel Defense as far as recognizable go.

There is also the Colt stuff sold by Brownells but its hit or miss from what I hear.

There is also the Brownells branded stuff that is hit or miss.

I used a Lower Parts Kit sold my Smith & Wesson and some stuff like the trigger group from PSA to make mine cheap as possible lol.

Im surprised Ruger and Springfield Armory don't sell some sort of Lower Parts Kit or something more.
 
MrJokerRager said:
the top of the line is CMMG, Bravo Company and Daniel Defense as far as recognizable go
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CMMG is a pretty good manufacturer, but i'm not sure i was call them top of the line. BCM and DD are definitely upper end, but you're starting to pay for the name more than the product, BCM being right at the line imho.

i'm not sure what you mean by "recognizable" though. Colt is Colt, and Brownells sells Colt stuff for fans of Colt, and owners of Colt branded Colt products. Colt.

Brownells themselves are alright manufacturers, and really hit it out of the park with their magazines, however much like GG&G or DPMS, i've never really had issues with their small parts or accessories. the BRN-180 seemed alright, but there was some teething issues. their clone parts like receivers and stuff also seem to be of good quality from the bits i've examined and measured for people. Ruger makes their own stuff and is OEM to a few select other companies, but otherwise only offers things as repair or replacement parts. SA relies on others for manufacture and DPMS used to be their small parts supplier until they partnered with people more local like DRG or CritCap. SA does make some specialized parts in house that they specifically tool up for, but for a lot of things in the LPK, the brand almost doesn't matter outside of a few companies.
 
Club Sandwich said:
CMMG is a pretty good manufacturer, but i'm not sure i was call them top of the line. BCM and DD are definitely upper end, but you're starting to pay for the name more than the product, BCM being right at the line imho.

i'm not sure what you mean by "recognizable" though. Colt is Colt, and Brownells sells Colt stuff for fans of Colt, and owners of Colt branded Colt products. Colt.

Brownells themselves are alright manufacturers, and really hit it out of the park with their magazines, however much like GG&G or DPMS, i've never really had issues with their small parts or accessories. the BRN-180 seemed alright, but there was some teething issues. their clone parts like receivers and stuff also seem to be of good quality from the bits i've examined and measured for people. Ruger makes their own stuff and is OEM to a few select other companies, but otherwise only offers things as repair or replacement parts. SA relies on others for manufacture and DPMS used to be their small parts supplier until they partnered with people more local like DRG or CritCap. SA does make some specialized parts in house that they specifically tool up for, but for a lot of things in the LPK, the brand almost doesn't matter outside of a few companies.
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Recognizable as something an average gun buyer would recognize, not a firearms fanatic like me.

On a side note, is Colt's QC gone down or changed since the GWOT is winding down?

I notice a lot of Colt fans are obsessed with making sure its GWOT markings.
 
MrJokerRager said:
Colt's QC gone down
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Colt is not what it used to be, but the actual products are generally still pretty good, just they were overpriced for the Colt premium. Colt Firearms being bought by CZG has seen a price reduction to try and reintroduce the brand to the general market. if you wanted any products prior to the acquisition you might want to get them now as there is almost certainly going to be a culling of the product catalog and a change to make it more competitive with other players that have capitalized on Colt's general absence from the commercial market.
 
Club Sandwich said:
A lot of parts kits have used DSA/Coonan/Entreprise Arms receivers over the years. are you sure the receiver was DPMS and not DSA?

i would like to see a DPMS receiver for the FAL, that would be pretty interesting to examine.
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Positive. I honestly wouldn't have noticed, except for specifically wanting a DPMS FAL after seeing that SGN advertisement; and I think they had one or two at SHOT '06.

At the time I also had a higher opinion of DPMS's quality from my experience with their ARs.
 
Pocket Dragoon said:
Positive. I honestly wouldn't have noticed, except for specifically wanting a DPMS FAL after seeing that SGN advertisement; and I think they had one or two at SHOT '06.
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interesting. i looked through some of my old media collection of SHOT show brochures and flyers and DPMS debuted their SASS type rifle, and DSA debuted their SA58 rifle, i find nothing on a DPMS FAL of any kind.

but! i did go through my old SGN mailers and the one and only DPMS built FAL i can find was before the Panther Arms partnership where they assembled some imported kits on cast Century Arms receivers they finish machined at their old facility in Becker MN. this was discontinued really fast because the casting left a lot to be desired. i didn't even know any ever made it to market as complete rifles. you would see these kit guns with Israeli and L1A1 furniture here or there, but they are very rare as DPMS flat out didn't make very many of them, and their partnership with Panther Arms made them huge gobs of cash with the Oracle series of rifles and the LR-308B.

that must have been it, i think.

pic:
pix452799305.jpg
 
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TerminalTryHard said:
How are the century imports from Canada?
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CAI imports tend to be all right if they are imported as a complete rifle that CAI just adds compliance parts to. CAI gets into trouble when they try to actually make something (typically through subcontractors but sometimes in house). then you get into issues where it's hard to determine problems without doing your own inspection and knowing what you're looking at, for example some trouble with the RAS47 trunnion or the L1A1 type III receivers out of Arizona.

do you have a specific import in mind?
 
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