Mega Rad Gun Thread

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White Devil said:
I haven't watched it because work, but Ayoob is peak boomer permanently stuck in the 70s and 80s and he's been wrong before. This is the guy who preaches that modifying your firearm will put you in jail in a defensive use case despite there being exactly zero instances of that happening. He was maybe last relevant 20 years ago but certainly not today.
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IMO, that doesn't completely disqualify him. You shouldn't get all your information from one source. But you should consider your sources' backgrounds, experience, and training. Different things are gonna work for different people in different circumstances.

That said, his old LFI videos were made for cops of that era, not private citizens. Though I did recognize a lot from "Cute Lawyer Tricks" when watching the Rittenhouse trial.
 
Is the 5.7 a gimmick round like the 10x25mm? I noticed that Ruger, S&W, and Kel-Tec have come out with their own 5.7 platforms over the last couple of years.

My uncle has an FN5.7 he's carried for years now and swears by it. But it seems to me like little more than a beefier .22 being fired from a pistol-length barrel.

Am I missing something? I'm aware of it's armor-penetrating ability with the right ammo, but to my knowledge, that particular round isn't available to civvies.
 
ChampFantana said:
Is the 5.7 a gimmick round like the 10x25mm? I noticed that Ruger, S&W, and Kel-Tec have come out with their own 5.7 platforms over the last couple of years.

My uncle has an FN5.7 he's carried for years now and swears by it. But it seems to me like little more than a beefier .22 being fired from a pistol-length barrel.

Am I missing something? I'm aware of it's armor-penetrating ability with the right ammo, but to my knowledge, that particular round isn't available to civvies.
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It's a meme gun perpetuated by /k/ faggots that has no actual utility in civilian use besides being just another toy to own. I'm not saying civilians shouldn't own one, I just think it's pointless.
 
ChampFantana said:
But it seems to me like little more than a beefier .22 being fired from a pistol-length barrel.
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5.7x28mm was NATO standardized for the PDW concept a couple years ago and has replaced older 9mm and other cartridges for that purpose. it's a better .30 carbine more or less, so solutions that would be satisfied with .30 carbine performance, or 9mm machine pistols, should be satisfied with the 5.7x28mm and enjoy increased armor penetration, higher/flatter trajectories, greater kinetic effect on target with frangible ammunition, and more ammunition in each magazine. i think it's a very gimmicky pistol round, but that's not it's designed purpose - it works "okay" for pistols since it achieves good velocity in short barrels.

depending on the manner you want to use it, it's pretty mediocre to excellent.
 
Pocket Dragoon said:
View attachment 4368676View attachment 4368680View attachment 4368684
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This seems like a device built by people that were never told that grenadiers in combat usually aim by intuition. Most of them don't even us the ladder sight once they're experienced.
ChampFantana said:
Is the 5.7 a gimmick round like the 10x25mm? I noticed that Ruger, S&W, and Kel-Tec have come out with their own 5.7 platforms over the last couple of years.

My uncle has an FN5.7 he's carried for years now and swears by it. But it seems to me like little more than a beefier .22 being fired from a pistol-length barrel.

Am I missing something? I'm aware of it's armor-penetrating ability with the right ammo, but to my knowledge, that particular round isn't available to civvies.
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Without the penetrator that cartridge is pretty pointless (get it?) because it overpenetrates soft targets very easily no matter what ammo you pick while it fails to penetrate any more modern armor types. Even if you had the fancy armor piercing ammo you'd only be able to defeat Kevlar, Steel pots and old soviet Titanium body armor from the Afghanistan era.
 
John W. Smoke Jr. said:
This seems like a device built by people that were never told that grenadiers in combat usually aim by intuition. Most of them don't even us the ladder sight once they're experienced.

Without the penetrator that cartridge is pretty pointless (get it?) because it overpenetrates soft targets very easily no matter what ammo you pick while it fails to penetrate any more modern armor types. Even if you had the fancy armor piercing ammo you'd only be able to defeat Kevlar, steel pots and old soviet titanium body armor from the Afghanistan era.
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Freedom Fighter said:
Speaking of 5.7, PSA now has finally released their own:

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Absolute kino. Around and even less than a box of 38-special in store, my primary (and only) pistol. Might actually consider picking up that M&P 5.7 sometime now with its 22 rounds of bang.
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Club Sandwich said:
5.7x28mm was NATO standardized for the PDW concept a couple years ago and has replaced older 9mm and other cartridges for that purpose. it's a better .30 carbine more or less, so solutions that would be satisfied with .30 carbine performance, or 9mm machine pistols, should be satisfied with the 5.7x28mm and enjoy increased armor penetration, higher/flatter trajectories, greater kinetic effect on target with frangible ammunition, and more ammunition in each magazine. i think it's a very gimmicky pistol round, but that's not it's designed purpose - it works "okay" for pistols since it achieves good velocity in short barrels.

depending on the manner you want to use it, it's pretty mediocre to excellent.
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Exactly this concept. It's a pistol round with tons of zoom and some penetration. One caveat I will make on pistols, that in order to get proper velocity, it's gotta be around 5 inches. Really the main advantage for the civvie is ammo capacity. I don't care who you are and how much coke you snorted, 22 of these to the chest is gonna be a bad time
John W. Smoke Jr. said:
Without the penetrator that cartridge is pretty pointless (get it?) because it overpenetrates soft targets very easily no matter what ammo you pick while it fails to penetrate any more modern armor types. Even if you had the fancy armor piercing ammo you'd only be able to defeat Kevlar, Steel pots and old soviet Titanium body armor from the Afghanistan era.
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Tbf, the armor pen stats were what it was asked to do, to take out lightly armored troops. AP 5.7 pens armor way better than 9mm.
 
I wouldn't maybe call Massad Ayoob completely irrelevant, but he certainly haven't kept up well with the times. Fuck, Rex Applegate may have been quite optimistic about other people's pistol marksmanship, but assuming we aren't talking about headshots at 15yds like he did, I think that point shooting has very viable applications, William Fairbairn and Eric Sykes (who saw WAY more shit than Ayoob ever did), agree with this.

Ayoob doesn't agree, and it seems like it's because he thinks it's intended to be some sort of substitute for aiming at anything but very close ranges, like the kind of situation where a sight picture adds nothing and speed is vital (like someone about to draw on you), or where you don't even have the option (like you're being grabbed and you're struggling to get free). His argument also predicates on how cops struggle to pull it off (especially Applegate's example, and especially NYPD, with their fabled 'safety' triggers which makes even the Hi-Point blush), and how police departments barely teach it anymore, as if cops on average aren't atrocious marksmen to begin with, particularly these days.
Or he makes a very awkward appeal to authority by stating that Jim Cirillo and Bill Allard always used their sights.
 
ATF brace rule is published (1/31/23 8:45 EST)
FPC already sued, Mock v. Garland published on PACER at Jan. 31, 2023, 7:28 p.m. EST in the Northern District of Texas, assigned to Reed Charles O'Connor.
O'Connor was appointed by George W. Bush in 2007, his only 2nd amendment case I know of is Mance v. Holder where he struck down the federal ban on interstate transfers for handguns. Reversed on appeal by Mance v. Sessions in the 5th circuit court of appeals.

No legal action from the the GOA, 2AF yet (Just words iirc). NRA has no statement per typical being the spineless cucks they are.
 

Attachments

State legislature in New Mexico is trying to ram through their whole anti gun agenda and representatives aren't taking calls. Shits going to get stupid.
 
White Devil said:
State legislature in New Mexico is trying to ram through their whole anti gun agenda and representatives aren't taking calls. Shits going to get stupid.
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They've always been the ugly, uncool step-sibling of the Western states. At least Colorado has pretty mountains and Cali has some nice weather.
 
Meat Target said:
They've always been the ugly, uncool step-sibling of the Western states. At least Colorado has pretty mountains and Cali has some nice weather.
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Like one Republican won in the midterms since the redistricting. Now we're facing storage laws, mag bans, and an awb. Not fishy at all.
 
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