Metro Devs throw hissy fit over planned boycott of Epic Store - Threatens to block future PC ports.

[MI 814]

You're exceptional if you think Steam could get away with having no DRM and having the variety it has to the platform. Its a necessary evil. A lot of publishers will not put their games up for sale without DRM and the launcher situation would be even worse, still with DRM that might be far worse than what Valve is. Steam made DRM easy instead of developing 50 different flavors and even still some publishers pile on their own DRM on top of Steam's.

DRM on Valve is also opt-in, its not automatic. Publishers and devs can put no DRM on their game there and have it downloaded. A service without DRM offering a library as vast as Steam is a pipe dream. It is simply not going to happen. GoG manages because a lot of the titles they have licenses for, a lot of indies go there too.

You have a DRM free alternative in GoG. The reason it doesn't have more is because publishers and developers want DRM. Steam didn't 'make this shit acceptable', it was always there. So I'm tired of this 'muh DRM' argument. Its fucking autistic. Many in the gaming industry still believe piracy is a huge problem which is why the PC as a platform was ignored for so long. If Steam didn't do it, publishers would do it anyway. That's why it took a huge amount of time for Japanese games to come to PC, because of the impression of piracy and it wasn't worth it. Steam changed that. Steam wasn't just a centralized platform, it streamlined DRM. If it didn't, Steam wouldn't exist today.

If you're really that against DRM, just use GoG. You can wish all you want, but publishers and devs still want DRM on a vast majority of their games and that is not going to change.

I'm fucking tired of this stupid DRM argument. Use GoG and don't bitch, or pirate. DRM is not going away because of publishers and developers and you aren't going to get the selection of games you have without it.

And DRM is a necessary evil and is fine as long as it eventually gets removed depending on the game, like with Yakuza 0 recently removing Denuvo.

And having a later GoG release if possible is always a plus!

Though, to be fair using a billion different launchers for different games isn't fun or preferable. Which is one of the many reasons the Epic Launcher is fucking garbage along with it being barebones and anti-consumer. There is just no...reason for it. Just games they snatched from Steam rather than ones they funded themselves. It's completely unnecessary and is just a way to create a forced monopoly, not by being the best, but by providing no other options.

 

[MI 814]

If you're really that against Epic, just use Steam.

Sure, except they are bribing devs and publishers to make their games exclusive to Epic for a year. Which Steam doesn't do.

 

[byuu]

Sure, except they are bribing devs and publishers to make their games exclusive to Epic for a year. Which Steam doesn't do.

Tell me what service is easier to avoid: Steam or Epic?
Be honest.

 

[MI 814]

Tell me what service is easier to avoid: Steam or Epic?
Be honest.

Epic, well you wanted me to be honest. That's due to Epic having not even a quarter of the library that Steam has.

The issue is in the future will Epic just force more users to use their inferior storefront or not. The issue is in the FUTURE will Epic be harder to avoid than Steam when it comes to new games. And you are also clearly just trying to stir shit up but I will humor you.

Be honest.

Would you rather use Steam or Epic?

 

[byuu]

The issue is in the future will Epic just force more users to use their inferior storefront or not. The issue is in the FUTURE will Epic be harder to avoid than Steam when it comes to new games.

The only thing I'm sure of about the future is that Steam and all the services that try to imitate it are not going to improve as long as Steam keeps its dominant market position and people keep defending it to death.

If you want things to improve in the future, stop crying about games not being available on Steam. Cry about games not being available on GOG or retail (without sneaky online activation stuff) instead.

Imagine if people made as much of a fuss about a game not being on GOG than they did about Metro not being on Steam.
But unlike Steam, people's game libraries on the store, that they invested hundreds if not thousands of dollars into, aren't threatened when GOG is threatened....

Would you rather use Steam or Epic?

Steam. But it's like asking if I'd rather have terminal lung cancer or terminal prostate cancer.
I'd take any other crappy form of DRM over both. Even an old school dongle. At least the distributor can't take it away from me whenever they please.

 

[Rand /pol/]

Who cares.

 

[Secret Asshole]

Yeah, no shit they're going to push their DRM. But nobody is forcing anyone to use it. There will always be DRM, forever. You're delusional if you don't think there will never be any form of it except on sites that make it a point like GoG, which doesn't have the library and options Steam has.

Don't like DRM? Use GoG and buy physical copies. I think its an idiotic sentiment as any opponent to Steam to be on their level will always have security and DRM, you're not going to get to be a market leader without it because many do not feel comfortable running DRM free games.

What I'm getting from you is 'Don't buy digital games with DRM'. That's fine. Buy physical, buy GoG. This thread has nothing to do with what you're talking about as anyone who wants to truly be a competitor with Steam will have DRM, so its a pointless derail.

I'll stop using Steam when something better comes along. But I find the 'muh DRM' arguments fucking stupid as every platform is going to have it, just like every game had it before, sometimes with very intrusive DRM that made the game unplayable even if you had the disc. It was way, way worse before.

 

[MI 814]

The only thing I'm sure of about the future is that Steam and all the services that try to imitate it are not going to improve as long as Steam keeps its dominant market position and people keep defending it to death.

If you want things to improve in the future, stop crying about games not being available on Steam. Cry about games not being available on GOG or retail (without sneaky online activation stuff) instead.

Imagine if people made as much of a fuss about a game not being on GOG than they did about Metro not being on Steam.
But unlike Steam, people's game libraries on the store, that they invested hundreds if not thousands of dollars into, aren't threatened when GOG is threatened....


Steam. But it's like asking if I'd rather have terminal lung cancer or terminal prostate cancer.
I'd take any other crappy form of DRM over both. Even an old school dongle. At least the distributor can't take it away from me whenever they please.

So why are you defending Epic? Epic is far worse than steam so far (as they are clearly pro-publisher and that ISN'T A GOOD THING) and Steam is more like Breast Cancer tbh.

 

[byuu]

IThere will always be DRM, forever. You're delusional if you don't think there will never be any form of it except on sites that make it a point like GoG, which doesn't have the library and options Steam has.

I can live with some forms of DRM.
But needing the continued permission of Valve to keep playing the game I "bought"?
Call me a boomer but that just crosses a line.

And sure publishers will keep pushing obnoxious DRM. But what happened to consumers pushing back? Now we have consumers pushing for the DRM that has the most amount of their games hostage instead. This is (sort of) what the thread is about and I think it's kinda fucked up.

Paid exclusives is also something that will always be there.
Doesn't stop anyone from bitching about it. But if Valve does something we just have to accept it.

So why are you defending Epic? Epic is far worse than steam so far (as they are clearly pro-publisher and that ISN'T A GOOD THING) and Steam is more like Breast Cancer tbh.

Nothing Epic has done (not even Fortnite!) is as bad as what Valve did.
And Epic is a huge pain in the ass - Steam got everyone hooked into slowly screwing themselves.

 

[MI 814]

I can live with some forms of DRM.
But needing the continued permission of Valve to keep playing the game I "bought"?
Call me a boomer but that just crosses a line.

And sure publishers will keep pushing obnoxious DRM. But what happened to consumers pushing back? Now we have consumers pushing for the DRM that has the most amount of their games hostage instead. This is (sort of) what the thread is about and I think it's kinda fucked up.

Paid exclusives is also something that will always be there.
Doesn't stop anyone from bitching about it. But if Valve does something we just have to accept it.


Nothing Epic has done (not even Fortnite!) is as bad as what Valve did.
And Epic is a huge pain in the ass - Steam got everyone hooked into slowly screwing themselves.

Sorry? You mean because Valve created Steam as DRM first?

Epic is pro-publisher, while Steam is pro-consumer in comparison. Again, I know you are just trying to be contrarian but let's be real here, Epic has nothing to offer and I don't see what you have to gain by bashing Steam when Epic is clearly worse.

 

[Slap47]

Tell me what service is easier to avoid: Steam or Epic?
Be honest.

Both are equally easy to avoid.

The reason I use Steam is because I actually like it.

 

[Secret Asshole]

I can live with some forms of DRM.
But needing the continued permission of Valve to keep playing the game I "bought"?
Call me a boomer but that just crosses a line.

And sure publishers will keep pushing obnoxious DRM. But what happened to consumers pushing back? Now we have consumers pushing for the DRM that has the most amount of their games hostage instead. This is (sort of) what the thread is about and I think it's kinda fucked up.

Paid exclusives is also something that will always be there.
Doesn't stop anyone from bitching about it. But if Valve does something we just have to accept it.


Nothing Epic has done (not even Fortnite!) is as bad as what Valve did.
And Epic is a huge pain in the ass - Steam got everyone hooked into slowly screwing themselves.

You might be a contrarian, but I like reading my own words so I'll humor you. You're only a boomer in terms that you dislike digital media. Most people don't own their own song libraries they buy. In terms of DRM, you're full of shit, because if you truly remember the bad old days, they had nothing on Valve. I've also been using Steam since the beginning, when it had competitors. Steam was shit, but so were all its competitors. Steam just happened to be less shit than all the others, which is why it won. Now its actually good, which is why people defend it.

I've own digital games and movies on services that failed completely, their servers shutting down. You know what? I still have access to them, because the companies that bought them retained your consumer information. You know why? Because they want you to keep buying. I have games on Steam from where Steam lost the license to sell them. You know what? I can still download and play them any time I want. Same with GoG. And the case for digital media is new territory in terms of ownership. I'm not all that worried to be quite honest. We're well past the point of no return, digital media of music, movies, TV and games will always be a thing now whether you like it or not.

Why don't consumers push back against every single fucking title imaginable? Do you know how exhausting that would be? Most people understand the situation with DRM and honestly don't give a shit. Its a very small minority who actually care if something has DRM. The only time consumers will get up in arms if that DRM fucks with their computer or ruins their experience. That's when you get people pissed. You know how many times old DRM fucked with my machine? Steam streamlining that shit and making sure it did neither was a godsend. For a LONG time, it was easier to pirate games because of it. That time has long since passed, with only a few modern exceptions. Sorry, I don't miss the days where I had 20 discs and 20 CD Keys I needed to keep somewhere just to install my library of titles. Not even getting to the DOS Copy protection of look on page 4, paragraph 55 of manual 3 and type the third word from the left. Oh and if you lost the manual you were completely fucked. Some games did this every time you booted it up.

So yeah, I've experienced every form of DRM there is. DRM has always existed, will always exist. If you believe getting rid of it is possible, I'm sorry to say but you're a fucking idiot. There's really no way around it. Getting rid of intrusive DRM? Yes. Getting rid of DRM completely? No. And I don't know what fucking heyday you remember, DRM was MUCH MUCH worse the farther back you went, so much as to render games unplayable. Go back in time and say to somebody you don't need a disc, CD Key and the DRM isn't going to melt or install a rootkit on your machine and they'd beg you for this wonderful product.

Also this is not even mentioning the inevitable 'Disc Rot' and 'Data Rot' from physical media. It isn't all stars and garters with a physical disc. Don't say flash drives either, as they too have limited life spans, less than CDs. Even Blu-rays experience disk rot as well.

Your whole argument is 'DRM BAD = VALVE BAD'. Its a shit argument, has always been a shit argument, and will always be one. Valve streamlined DRM and allowed it to be unobtrusive, which is what people really wanted, to stop it from fucking with their games and their machines. It was very, very successful at doing this. Products everywhere come with anti-theft features, not just digital media. If you don't like the idea of digital media, then basically I don't know what to tell you because eventually consoles are going to move in that direction too. Physical media production is going to stop eventually. Shit, most laptops don't even come with DVD drives anymore. Gamestop is going out of business. Physical media is on its deathbed and its going to be all digital. The question of digital downloads and 'owning' your games is beyond the scope of this thread. Most people simply don't give a shit.

If you're THAT spergy, then don't use them. Nobody is holding a gun to your head. Use GoG and physical media. Every game isn't going to be on GoG because publishers AND Devs want some form of DRM. If you use the excuse 'well, Steam is just easier, its too hard' then just fuck right off please. I don't have use for hypocrites.

 

[AnOminous]

And I don't know what fucking heyday you remember, DRM was MUCH MUCH worse the farther back you went, so much as to render games unplayable.

Remember when some games had these spinning wheel things made out of cardboard where you had to turn them to where one word was to look through a hole to where another word was printed below it and then type that in, and sometimes do that repeatedly? And if the thing tore or broke you were completely fucked?

Yeah, those were the days.

The pirated versions usually removed that shit and that's why everyone pirated everything.

 

[The tired cat]

Remember when some games had these spinning wheel things made out of cardboard where you had to turn them to where one word was to look through a hole to where another word was printed below it and then type that in, and sometimes do that repeatedly? And if the thing tore or broke you were completely fucked?

Yeah, those were the days.

The pirated versions usually removed that shit and that's why everyone pirated everything.

Oh I got a better one, here in Eastern Europe we had this obnoxious protection system called "StarForce" which could not only bust your PC, it could also eventually corrupt the game disc that you couldn't play the damn thing.

 

[Fagnacious D]

Yeah, no shit they're going to push their DRM. But nobody is forcing anyone to use it. There will always be DRM, forever. You're delusional if you don't think there will never be any form of it except on sites that make it a point like GoG, which doesn't have the library and options Steam has.

Don't like DRM? Use GoG and buy physical copies. I think its an idiotic sentiment as any opponent to Steam to be on their level will always have security and DRM, you're not going to get to be a market leader without it because many do not feel comfortable running DRM free games.

What I'm getting from you is 'Don't buy digital games with DRM'. That's fine. Buy physical, buy GoG. This thread has nothing to do with what you're talking about as anyone who wants to truly be a competitor with Steam will have DRM, so its a pointless derail.

I'll stop using Steam when something better comes along. But I find the 'muh DRM' arguments fucking stupid as every platform is going to have it, just like every game had it before, sometimes with very intrusive DRM that made the game unplayable even if you had the disc. It was way, way worse before.

My biggest gripe against steam is that they've dropped support for windows XP. Sadly there are games that won't run on Windows 7/8/10. If there are no 3rd party patches for them there is no way to run them at all now. Before, if you had say, an emulator (PCem/86box) or another PC with XP on it you could still play these without needing to look for a crack.
I can see why they dropped support but, that still leaves this awkward situation where games on Win95 through XP are even hard to run without trying to get some kind of crack
At least on the store page they tell you it does not work with your OS if you try to buy it (sometimes).

 

[The tired cat]

My biggest gripe against steam is that they've dropped support for windows XP. Sadly there are games that won't run on Windows 7/8/10. If there are no 3rd party patches for them there is no way to run them at all now. Before, if you had say, an emulator (PCem/86box) or another PC with XP on it you could still play these without needing to look for a crack.
I can see why they dropped support but, that still leaves this awkward situation where games on Win95 through XP are even hard to run without trying to get some kind of crack
At least on the store page they tell you it does not work with your OS if you try to buy it (sometimes).

Are they? 'Cause I played some games on steam which are made for XP and they played just fine. I could be wrong, but doesn't Win 7 automatically like set itself as Win XP for programs that usually run on XP?

 

[byuu]

Remember when some games had these spinning wheel things made out of cardboard where you had to turn them to where one word was to look through a hole to where another word was printed below it and then type that in, and sometimes do that repeatedly? And if the thing tore or broke you were completely fucked?

Code wheels? I liked those things - they were much better than games prompting you for a specific passage in the manual.
Still should have a "pirated" one lying around somewhere, which is simply cut out photocopies of both parts, held together with a brass fastener in the middle.
A fun crafts project for the kids and so much nicer than just scribbling down some of the combinations.

 

[Wake me up]

Steam didn't 'make this shit acceptable', it was always there

If anything, Steam "made it acceptable" in the sense that for once DRM works as intended, regardless of system version, game being played, privacy concerns, etc. When each developer had to implement its own DRM or, worse, use a third-party solution, it was shit every fucking time and a major source of unnecessary headache when either trying to launch your game or trying to install it on a newer system later on.

Even today, external DRM is still a major headache whenever publishers are dumb enough to try it. Not necessarily because it is a technical challenge (and it can definitely be) but because it's too tempting for publishers to either cheap out on it or instead invest on it for the all the worst reasons, meaning your DRM is doing a lot of shit it shouldn't even be doing in the first place and it's getting in the way of you running it.

Many in the gaming industry still believe piracy is a huge problem

The only reason piracy is no longer a major issue on current year is because Steam explicitly set out to make their service a cheap alternative that was better than pirating games. Valve literally stated that with Steam they didn't want to combat piracy but outsell it. And, to everyone's disbelief, they've actually succeeded in it. People now would rather pay for a game on Steam than download it for free in 20 minutes with their 50MB/s torrents. Why? Because it's better than playing a game for free. You can get a refund, install it on any device forever, backup your saves, play online safely and cheat-free, etc.

People can hate on Steam all they want but if they're not willing to praise GabeN for this, they're lolcows.

DRM on Valve is also opt-in, its not automatic

In the last year or so my neighborhood has had a couple periods with Internet access being down for weeks (word is that some hoodlum is messing with the cables but who knows). I have been able to play several of my games without even opening up Steam on offline mode by just launching the game from the installation folder. And some of these games are new, #1 sold on their Steam category and heavily take advantage of other Steam feature (workshop, cloud saves, etc). They literally just opted-out of DRM.

 

[Oddjob OTP]

Are they? 'Cause I played some games on steam which are made for XP and they played just fine. I could be wrong, but doesn't Win 7 automatically like set itself as Win XP for programs that usually run on XP?

Windows has built-in compatibility settings but they rarely mean the difference between something running and not running. Some games are just huge fucking pains to get running on modern systems. Two games that I recently installed that require a lot of additional fuckery to run on Windows 10 are Diablo 1 and Sim Golf.

 

[Just Some Other Guy]

Windows has built-in compatibility settings but they rarely mean the difference between something running and not running. Some games are just huge fucking pains to get running on modern systems. Two games that I recently installed that require a lot of additional fuckery to run on Windows 10 are Diablo 1 and Sim Golf.

Wow, never thought I'd see someone mention Sim Golf. That takes me back.