🐱 Millennials aren’t saving for retirement because they don’t think capitalism will exist by then

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https://www.salon.com/2018/03/18/so...y-do-not-think-capitalism-will-exist-by-then/


CNN reported last week that 66 percent of millennials aged 21 to 32 have nothing saved for retirement. And while their writer chalks up this inequity to student loans, “stagnant wages” and “high unemployment,” there may yet be a deeper cause: many millennials honestly don’t see a future for our economic system.

The aforementioned CNN article about millennials’ (lack of) retirement savings went semi-viral, partly because many saw humor in how it missed how many truly felt. “RT if socialism is your retirement plan,” Holly Wood, 32, a political organizer, wrote on Twitter.

The idea that we millennials’ only hope for retirement is the end of capitalism or the end of the world is actually quite common sentiment among the millennial left. Jokes about being unable to retire or anticipating utter social change by retirement age were ricocheting around the internet long before CNN’s article was published.









Older generations, and even millennials who are better off and who have managed to achieve a sort of petit-bourgeois freedom, might find this sentiment unimaginable, even abhorrent. And yet, in studying the reaction to the CNN piece and reaching out to millennials who had responded to it, I was astounded not only at how many young people shared Wood’s feelings, but how frequently our expectations for the future aligned. Many millennials expressed to me their interest in creating self-sustaining communities as their only hope for survival in old age; a lack of faith that capitalism as we know it would exist by retirement age; and that alternating climate crises, concentrations of wealth, and privatization of social welfare programs would doom their chance at survival.

“In general, I regard the future as a multitude of possibilities, but most of them don't look good,” Elias Schwartzman, 29, a musician, told me. “When I'm at retirement age, around 2050, I think it's possible we'll have seen a breakdown of modern society.” Schwartzman said that he saw the future as encompassing one of two possibilities: an apocalyptic “total breakdown of industrial society,” or “capitalism morphing into a complete plutocracy.” “I think the argument can be made that we're well on the way to that reality,” he added.

Wood, 32, a political consultant, told me via Twitter that she felt similarly. “I don’t think the world can sustain capitalism for another decade,” she explained. “It’s socialism or bust. We will literally start having resource wars that will kill us all if we don’t accept that the free market will absolutely destroy us within our lifetime [if] we don’t start fighting its hegemony,” she added.

“Capitalism might still exist [in 2050], but I don’t expect people will be happy about it,” Jon Good, 34, a chocolatier and small business owner, said. “If [capitalism] is replaced [by then], my ideal economic model is one where all basic necessities are abundant and free, everyone works a few hours a week at the necessary chores of society like garbage collection and machine maintenance, then has the rest of their lives free to pursue whatever projects—be they art, leisure, or industry—that they desire.”

That utopian hope, that we could theoretically end up in a sort of fully-automated post-work social democracy à la “Star Trek,” was expressed by others too.

“I think a system with universal basic income is inevitable if we're going to survive the automation of jobs as a society,” Becca Cook, 30, told me over Facebook chat. “We need to shift our understanding and expectations to a world where not everyone has to have a job.”

Sarah Frasco, 26, a student, saw a gulf between her and the young people who even thought about things like retirement. “For the most part, the idea of retirement or how you plan for it is really the privilege of the few people my age who have access to that kind of security and stability,” Frasco told Salon. “I know a few people from school who are on that track right now and sometimes I compare myself to them and wonder how I'll ever catch up.”

Good agreed with Frasco that retirement savings plans were the domain of bourgeois millennials. “In the 12 years since graduating college, I’ve spent one year working a job with benefits,” Good told Salon. “The rest of the time I’ve been cobbling together gigs and part-time jobs and under-the-table work that hasn’t paid me enough to save anything.”

“The economic realities of my generation make the expectations for my parents’ generation seem ludicrous to me—having a job with benefits and that pays enough that I can make rent, and save for retirement and also maybe for a down payment on property seems like a lottery,” Good continued. “Maybe 15 percent of my peer group has this, and having it is a combination of luck and family connections rather than skill and work ethic.”

Most intriguing, many millennials said that their life plans, goals and careers had been affected by their expectations of the future and the dismal economic circumstances into which they were born. “I was someone who very much wanted to have children by age 35 and no longer think that [is] even a remote possibility, even with two parents,” Wood told Salon. “And having the role of parent so squarely removed from my trajectory of life possibility has made me take bigger risks and made me unlikely to take on any job just for the sake of my résumé.”

Of course, many millennials are not even in a position of considering retirement savings, much less having options when it comes to work or life decisions. More millennials live in poverty than any other generation, according to a recent Pew Research poll, which noted that "5.3 million of the nearly 17 million U.S. households living in poverty were headed by a Millennial."

But for millennials who had more economic agency, the expectation of an unstable future meant trying to find happiness in the present. “I just blew all my savings on a nine-month road trip on the assumption that something is going to change drastically in the next few years,” Cook said.

“Not only am I not saving for retirement, I have never had a serious job because I have thought capitalism would be fucked by [the time I retired] since I was a teenager,” Shannon Malloy, 31, a student, organizer and bartender, said.

They say every generation thinks that it will be the last, as alt-country crooner Jeff Tweedy of Wilco rhapsodized. And yet, for millennials, it is perhaps understandable given the environmental and political situation at hand. Our ecological survival on the planet seems incompatible with the ever-hungry maw of capitalism, which requires ever-accelerating industrial production and consumption. Just as pollution, carbon emissions, deforestation and planned obsolescence are “good” for capitalist economies, they are horrendous for the environment and seem to be driving us to extinction in ways that are now manifesting in extreme weather events. Meanwhile, the planet’s tilt toward authoritarian politics and privatization do not bode well for the young.

Interestingly, privileged millennials on the higher end of the economic spectrum had trouble comprehending these kinds of attitudes. John Hagensen, 35, founder and managing director of investment advisory firm Keystone Wealth Partners, couldn’t fathom his struggling coevals’ alternative visions of the future. “I guess my argument to [their points] would be whether [societal collapse] happens or not, where does that change the personal responsibility for you to prepare yourself to take care of yourself and be responsible for yourself?” Hagensen told Salon. “They may be right, so does that mean that for the next 25 years they should save nothing?” Despite Hagensen’s preconceptions that lack of retirement planning indicated a lack of personal responsibility, the millennials I interviewed had all planned thoughtfully and carefully for their retirement — just not in the “traditional” manner, via investment accounts, that Hagensen was accustomed to.

Indeed, there was a surprising congruity among what “planning for retirement” meant for most of those whom I interviewed. “If I don’t die in the revolution I imagine I’ll be living in an intentional community,” Malloy said. “Either because we have no other options or because we’re trying to have as much autonomy as possible so we can keep doing [political organizing] work. I don’t count on ‘the work’ being finished enough to chill out in our lifetime,” she added.

“I’m absolutely convinced over how quickly friends have lost their pensions, 401ks and IRAs to bubble crashes that there is no safe place to ‘save’ for retirement,” Wood said, “And the best way to plan for retirement is by building tribes of like-minded peers who have committed themselves to group survival.”

“I’m way more invested in the family I’m building now than any fake sense of security that some mutual fund may or may not provide for me 20 years from now,” she added.

“When I'm at retirement age, around 2050, I think it's possible we'll have seen a breakdown of modern society,” Schwartzman told Salon. “I do see it as a real possibility that nuclear holocaust or environmental apocalypse will make money completely meaningless, and that reinforces my approach of living in the now. If I can find my way to saving, or creating a lot of wealth, I’ll use it to buy land and build toward self-sufficiency as a way to hopefully protect myself against the various unpleasant futures that I can see ahead of us.”

The remarkable consensus suggests that us millennials lacking traditional retirement savings plans might still have a happy retirement outlook, just not in the conventional way that previous generations did. If political organizers and mass movements succeed, we'll have a post-work, post-scarcity future to look forward to; and if not, it seems that many are committed to building their own solidarity networks, intentional communities, and like-minded cooperatives to carry us through the darker years of the 21st century.
 
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If you're an able bodied man (or a particularly butch woman), there's no good reason to be in poverty on the east coast. Maybe if the job market for these fields becomes 100% saturated, that'll be a different situation, but we're not remotely close to that point.
Women can do the work too. I met a gal once (a very pretty feminine gal) whose specialty was custom tile work. She made great money.

Most trades only require applicants able to lift 60 lbs. You have specialized tools for when you have to lift more. Brains, reliability, and skill, not strength, is what employers want.
 
This just in, Millennials think home ownership is stupid because owning a home is a foregone conclusion.
Never mind the notion that a home owner could simply rent out their house whenever they need to move closer to a better job or anything logical like that.
Why is the like ratio well...liked. Oh right! Millennials.
 
Construction jobs can make solid bucks, don't require a college degree, and there's definitely opportunity for advancement.

Most tradesmen I know got their start in new construction. It's generally shitty work but it's a foot in the door. It's where I started.

There's also specialized fields like HVAC, electrical work, welding and plumbing that make shit tons of money. They don't require much training, at most community college night classes, or sometimes you can be trained on the job.

This isn't quite true. At minimum you want a 2-year degree from an accredited trade school. Better a 2-year degree plus an apprenticeship. And even then, you don't want to stop there when it comes to training because you'll still be at ground level and probably won't see real money until you've got 5+ years of verifiable experience under your belt. A residential HVAC guy makes okay money, but a chiller tech or process refrigeration tech makes a lot of money. A sparky who pulls wires in new McMansions makes okay money, but an industrial electrician or controls tech makes a lot of money. A welder or plumber makes okay money, but a union pipefitter or ironworker makes fat money. The guys with the better jobs have WAY more training and education.

If you're an able bodied man (or a particularly butch woman), there's no good reason to be in poverty on the east coast. Maybe if the job market for these fields becomes 100% saturated, that'll be a different situation, but we're not remotely close to that point.

The lady mullet who taught me how to stickweld would never complain about a wage gap, I can tell you that.

There's shitloads of money to be made here. It doesn't require you to be friends with the right people, or get in with high society or any of that fearmongering "gatekeeping" shit that lazy tumblrites try to blame. If you can swing a hammer, you'll be fine.

In places where unions are strong, there almost always is a 'good old boys' system regarding who goes to the head of the line for apprenticeships and who sits on the bench or doesn't even get an apprenticeship. So it actually does help to know the right people.

A guy who fails the written tests but passes the 'interview' with flying colors and gets a spot because he's Jimmy's grandson is not uncommon. I would call that gatekeeping, but these days there's enough need for skilled labor that not being Jimmy's grandson usually won't hold you back if you're not a retard.

In places where it's nothing but merit shops? Learn your shit and get to work.

tl;dr - going into the trades is not a guarantee that you'll do well, and you'll have to put in a lot of effort to distinguish yourself and get the best jobs, but it's better than being some fag who works at Starbucks and whines on twitter about how bad millenials have it.

This just in, Millennials think home ownership is stupid because owning a home is a foregone conclusion.
Never mind the notion that a home owner could simply rent out their house whenever they need to move closer to a better job or anything logical like that.

I bought my house because even with a 15 year mortgage it's cheaper than renting in my area, I can fix most everything myself, and because nobody will see me jerking off to the ratkings when I'm in my basement. Checkmate, millenials.
 
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I bought my house because even with a 15 year mortgage it's cheaper than renting in my area, I can fix most everything myself, and because nobody will see me jerking off to the ratkings when I'm in my basement. Checkmate, millenials.

That's another thing, if you can qualify for a mortgage, paying that month to month is cheaper than any rent. Rental owners will charge you up the ass, especially if it's in a city, a city with tourist attractions, if it's a short term rental, and if it's listed on AirBnB because idiots will pay those enormous prices and tenants are not only expendable, they're easily replaceable.

and getting evicted from a rental burns a whole degree worse than a foreclosure because a foreclosure won't kill your ability to get a rental, but an eviction from a rental on your credit? You're fucked.
 
Women can do the work too. I met a gal once (a very pretty feminine gal) whose specialty was custom tile work. She made great money.

Most trades only require applicants able to lift 60 lbs. You have specialized tools for when you have to lift more. Brains, reliability, and skill, not strength, is what employers want.
Yeah, I know women like that.

I'd be interested to see how the "wage gap" would change if more women considered less romantic jobs like construction.
This just in, Millennials think home ownership is stupid because owning a home is a foregone conclusion.
Never mind the notion that a home owner could simply rent out their house whenever they need to move closer to a better job or anything logical like that.
Jesus Christ, this stupid shit.
This isn't quite true. At minimum you want a 2-year degree from an accredited trade school. Better a 2-year degree plus an apprenticeship. And even then, you don't want to stop there when it comes to training because you'll still be at ground level and probably won't see real money until you've got 5+ years of verifiable experience under your belt. A residential HVAC guy makes okay money, but a chiller tech or process refrigeration tech makes a lot of money. A sparky who pulls wires in new McMansions makes okay money, but an industrial electrician or controls tech makes a lot of money. A welder or plumber makes okay money, but a union pipefitter or ironworker makes fat money. The guys with the better jobs have WAY more training and education.
Yeah, true. I kinda merged two ideas together: You can make better-than-retail wages in manual labor pretty easily. Also these jobs also can morph into well paying careers later on.

But you don't get the latter right off the bat, and it might require a little more work than the former.
In places where unions are strong, there almost always is a 'good old boys' system regarding who goes to the head of the line for apprenticeships and who sits on the bench or doesn't even get an apprenticeship. So it actually does help to know the right people.

A guy who fails the written tests but passes the 'interview' with flying colors and gets a spot because he's Jimmy's grandson is not uncommon. I would call that gatekeeping, but these days there's enough need for skilled labor that not being Jimmy's grandson usually won't hold you back if you're not an exceptional individual.

In places where it's nothing but merit shops? Learn your shit and get to work.

tl;dr - going into the trades is not a guarantee that you'll do well, and you'll have to put in a lot of effort to distinguish yourself and get the best jobs, but it's better than being some fag who works at Starbucks and whines on twitter about how bad millenials have it.
I can't really comment on the influence of unions.

My social circle includes a lot of people who work in the construction business in the Baltimore/DC area. Those people can pretty much: get out of jail, borrow money from friends to buy a pickup truck and a few hundred worth of tools, and within a few months, start doing jobs hanging drywall or laying down shingles. And making good money doing it, considering they just got out of jail.

A big reason is because of all the money in the area. Along the northeast corridor (Boston to DC), there are incredibly rich counties full of wealthy people needing decks built and hot tubs installed and stupid shit like that. It's why laughingwitch lives in such luxury, her husband probably has made millions in that business.
 
This isn't quite true. At minimum you want a 2-year degree from an accredited trade school. Better a 2-year degree plus an apprenticeship. And even then, you don't want to stop there when it comes to training because you'll still be at ground level and probably won't see real money until you've got 5+ years of verifiable experience under your belt. A residential HVAC guy makes okay money, but a chiller tech or process refrigeration tech makes a lot of money. A sparky who pulls wires in new McMansions makes okay money, but an industrial electrician or controls tech makes a lot of money. A welder or plumber makes okay money, but a union pipefitter or ironworker makes fat money. The guys with the better jobs have WAY more training and education.
I have a theory. Regardless of what you do, it takes ten years. Whether you spend it in college or on the job site. That is what it takes to become fully competent in your field. You cannot expect to make good money before then. You are learning. The millennials with their degrees in underwater basket-weaving are learning this. They thought they would be put to the front of the line for hiring. They were mistaken. They need to give six more years.

I bought my house because even with a 15 year mortgage it's cheaper than renting in my area, I can fix most everything myself, and because nobody will see me jerking off to the ratkings when I'm in my basement. Checkmate, millenials.
Heh. Bought mine outright with cash. Caught that housing dip juuust right and picked out a fixer-upper short-sale for nothing.

And they laughed at me when I chose to live in a shitty trailer park while I saved. They laughed!
 
I have a theory. Regardless of what you do, it takes ten years. Whether you spend it in college or on the job site. That is what it takes to become fully competent in your field. You cannot expect to make good money before then. You are learning. The millennials with their degrees in underwater basket-weaving are learning this. They thought they would be put to the front of the line for hiring. They were mistaken. They need to give six more years.


Heh. Bought mine outright with cash. Caught that housing dip juuust right and picked out a fixer-upper short-sale for nothing.

And they laughed at me when I chose to live in a shitty trailer park while I saved. They laughed!
The Virgin Rent and the Chad Trailer Savier
 
This just in, Millennials think home ownership is stupid because owning a home is a foregone conclusion.
Never mind the notion that a home owner could simply rent out their house whenever they need to move closer to a better job or anything logical like that.

Ah yeah, renting instead of buying. After all why bother leaving your kids (which you won't have anyway because ewww kids are gross and icky and I'm childfree because I want to be free to do what I want until I'm 64 and dying alone) with a place to live, just throw money into a bottomless pit your whole life giving a landlord money instead!

t. Am 28 and living in an apartment that actually belongs to me with no mortgage to pay. At least I know that, regardless of what life throws at me, I have a roof over my head and a bed to sleep in, even if I lose my job and have to resort to eating tree bark I gather outside and pigeons I kill with my own two hands.
 
Here is my two cents. I thought a lot about it since reading the article. I'm not counting on Social Security because it's got about ten years to becoming bankrupt. So like...why the hell wouldn't you save for retirement?
 
This just in, Millennials think home ownership is stupid because owning a home is a foregone conclusion.
Never mind the notion that a home owner could simply rent out their house whenever they need to move closer to a better job or anything logical like that.
I don't have to even watch this because I will not take life advice of any kind from a fat adult man with that fucking haircut
 
Ah yeah, renting instead of buying. After all why bother leaving your kids (which you won't have anyway because ewww kids are gross and icky and I'm childfree because I want to be free to do what I want until I'm 64 and dying alone) with a place to live, just throw money into a bottomless pit your whole life giving a landlord money instead!

t. Am 28 and living in an apartment that actually belongs to me with no mortgage to pay. At least I know that, regardless of what life throws at me, I have a roof over my head and a bed to sleep in, even if I lose my job and have to resort to eating tree bark I gather outside and pigeons I kill with my own two hands.

Do you get equity for owning an apartment?
 
When you rent, you can move whenever you want!
There's usually a 12-month minimum rental period at least where I live, so you're really not that free. And unless your house is in some really shitty depopulating area, you can - spoiler alert - sell it. Or at least rent it out.

Oh, and with my mortgage payments I could rent a 250 square foot luxury apartment in a slum commie block.
 
There's usually a 12-month minimum rental period at least where I live, so you're really not that free. And unless your house is in some really shitty depopulating area, you can - spoiler alert - sell it. Or at least rent it out.

Oh, and with my mortgage payments I could rent a 250 square foot luxury apartment in a slum commie block.

This goes without mentioning lease agreements which every landlord will make you sign.
 
I don't know why these Milennials don't try alternative ways of trying to save like purchasing hard metals as even though they don't tend to make alot of money short term, they are reliable long term investments and are even very liquid in dire times.
Ahem, crypto.
 
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