Neo-Luddism & Anarcho-Primitivism. Thoughts?

[BirdUp]

If that's true, such was not the case before Current Year.

anprims were always retarded socialists that dream about idyllic greenland where they only pick berries and laze about for the rest of the day
socialists became trannies so it reflects in anarchoprimitivism

 

[ToroidalBoat]

idyllic greenland where they only pick berries and laze about for the rest of the day

lol

Maybe that's so in an afterlife - or in the Garden of Eden of Genesis taken literally - but real hunter-gatherer life isn't so easy.

(also "transgender" wasn't really a thing until the modern world)

 

[Agamemnon Busmalis]

lol

Maybe that's so in an afterlife - or in the Garden of Eden of Genesis taken literally - but real hunter-gatherer life isn't so easy.

(also "transgender" wasn't really a thing until the modern world)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockaigne

Even peasants in the Middle Ages knew it was just a dream. And they (involuntarily) LIVED the Luddite lifestyle.

 

[ToroidalBoat]

Also maybe the majority of non-American (or at least non-Western) "anarcho-primitivists" in this world still aren't "transgender"?

(pointless trivia: in Japan "anarcho-primitivism" can be called グリーンアナキズム - "green anarchism")

Even peasants in the Middle Ages knew it was just a dream. And they (involuntarily) LIVED the Luddite lifestyle.

Non-industrial life in this world may be free from BS of modern life, but there's also the lack of the conveniences of modern life.

 

[BirdUp]

Even peasants in the Middle Ages knew it was just a dream. And they (involuntarily) LIVED the Luddite lifestyle.

a lot of luddites like kaczynski despise the middle-ages lifestyle because of the poor conditions in contrast with a nomadic lifestyle
however you would at least be able to run away, unlike today

 

[Table Country]

>Luddite thread
>On an Internet website
>Typed using a keyboard
>Hooked up to a computer tower

 

[ToroidalBoat]

Anprims are all trannies.

Unfortunately, where politics are involved, people lose their minds and can't just "live and let live"...

idyllic greenland where they only pick berries and laze about for the rest of the day

If a group of "anprims" from this world were somehow teleported to an idyllic setting where they could live out the "anarcho primitivist" way easily, it could still easily decay into a living hell - especially if most or all involved are mentally unstable "transgenders"* - because Homo sapiens are rather prone to authoritarianism and evil. And if they were from at least the West or especially America, the "anprim" place could also easily run on mental illness and cult-ish thinking, like the "Jonestown" hell.

What I'm getting at here is that utopia may easily be impossible with people of this world, no matter what way of life is attempted.

* "The Tenacious Unicorn Ranch" didn't work out so well, did it?

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

If you want to prove your based Unabomber Luddite bonafides then smash your computer and never post again.

I hate ecofacists (more like ecofaggots) more than Leftists.

 

[Paul Lives!]

Most anprims I knew back in my days on the left were still heavily polluted by trans ideology and could never reconcile where the meds/surgery they needed were going to come from, rendering them imminently suicidal and more or less politically inert. No matter where you fall politically, we're all just a bunch of hopelessly online peons, after all.

I think too much is made of weighing modern convenience vs primitive freedom, or whether or not you'd be able to organize a hypothetical "anarchist" community along hypermodern ethical lines. It's fucking stupid. If people think they can hack it off the grid, they should try it. If they don't have the means to try it, they should learn what they can in order to do so. In the end anything that increases your knowledge of the environment around you and how to meet your own needs independently is rewarding and useful. Actual survival in a situation where you were cut off from modern convenience is going to depend more than anything on your geographical location and your ability to compromise and work together with people around you, regardless of ideological leanings. I think that's where these people would probably fail badly.

 

[BirdUp]

refresher on various kaczynskian ideas

 

[DDR Yoga]

I don't know if you can call them anprims but there is a lot of primitivist sentiment on the dissident right too. Quite a few of them have already adopted simpler ways of living; Woodlander and his wife are probably the most independent in that regard. For the right though, it's more about rejection of technology, care for the environment and preparation for societal collapse. I don't think anyone has ever said it is or should be easy. After all, hardwork, responsibility and, ultimately, the 'power process' are what it's all about for them.

Contrast that with the writings of leftist anprim types and you learn that their motivations are different. Indeed, Zerzan himself writes of primitive man having hours and hours of leisure time to himself. A lot of it for them is definitely is about avoiding an honest day's graft.

One group want to be Vikings, capable of surviving the harshest winters the north can serve up; the other want to be Eloi (except less Aryan looking), provided for and looked after by the forest... or the Morlocks if they'll let them bum the kids.

 

[Spob]

Will GPT make this kind of thing more mainstream?

 

[BirdUp]

Will GPT make this kind of thing more mainstream?

i don't think actual kaczynskian ideas would become mainstream (without being bastardized by lazies who like their state of living and opportunists)
more like passive luddism that really doesn't influence anything: see technophiles who propose "guiding technology" (how? legislation? good luck against market forces) to make sure that AI is friendly to humans

 

[Paul Lives!]

Contrast that with the writings of leftist anprim types and you learn that their motivations are different. Indeed, Zerzan himself writes of primitive man having hours and hours of leisure time to himself. A lot of it for them is definitely is about avoiding an honest day's graft.

Early man having more of what we could call leisure time is hardly an idea that's unique to Zerzan or anprims at large. Sahlins was the first to suggest it that I know of, and it's a notion I've personally seen represented in museums (the Field Museum comes to mind). I think what's more controversial is how one would go about classifying the activity of early humans. To roughly paraphrase a particular piece of anprim literature: "A modern man observing a bear near a berry patch wouldn't know when to punch the bear's clock". So these people know that primitive life involved toil and occasionally terrible struggle to meet their needs, but they wouldn't classify it as labor. The ones that aren't totally engaging in fantasy (and they are quite rare) also at least admit that the ecological conditions that led to successful hunter gatherer communities in the past are basically nonexistent now.

These people by and large would still be dead within a month of losing access to modern conveniences lmao, but that's not entirely their fault.

 

[General Disarray]

Here is a list of technic stuff we should keep:
- e-guitars
- e-bass-guitars
- recording equipment
- tapes and vinyls
- audio systems to play tapes and vinyls
- machines we need to produce the things mentioned above

Everything else makes us lazy and retarded and fat, disconnects us from nature und thus from god and paves the way for the machines turning against us - which they will one day. Skynet is not sci-fiction.

"Another toy, that helped destroy, the elder race of Man." - the Priests of the Temple, ca. 2112

We really need a Renaissance of new, great music. I'm afraid AI is going to infiltrate an already increasingly soulless musical landscape and every truck commercial will feature Song #112 by Soundscapes LTD; a 21st century Muzak writ large. But I'm old and out of touch I guess.

I will say there was a benefit of growing up sans fancy electronics: our imaginations and physical activity levels were higher for sure as we spent less time actually sitting watching TV (we didn't have a TV in every room, much less in our pockets!)

 

[Jacob Schiff]

Uncle Ted adresses the myth of egalitarianism:

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/lib...imitive-life-a-critique-of-anarchoprimitivism

The crux of the matter:

"But particularly revealing is Zerzan’ s quotation of “Shanks and Tilley”: “The point of archaeology is not merely to interpret the past but to change the manner in which the past is interpreted in the service of social reconstruction in the present.” [163] This is virtually open advocacy of the proposition that archaeologists should slant their findings for political purposes."

Wouldn’t say Ted proved that hunter-gatherer societies were non-egalitarian.

He notes that gendered violence existed among hunter-gatherer but mostly just that. Tells you little how prevalent it was. He also notes several examples of conditions in those same hunter-gatherer groups that would make them more gender egalitarian than many past agricultural societies and countries today.

He admits that sharing food within tribes WAS mandatory in many hunter-gatherer groups and did ensure a level of equality but that it was shared due to force from the community rather than an individual mindset. AND that while inequalities existed they were small compared to modern day society.

Spoiler

Sounds like Ted is trying to scare people away from anprim. He notes that hunting and gathering is physically straneous but neglects to mention that it was less straneous than pre-modern agriculture.

Not necessarily. Plenty of farming societies function with little distinction in wealth and social rank. Like to my knowledge I don't know of any agricultural society that lacks ideas like "nobility vs commoners", but there's plenty of farming societies (like many Indians in the Southwest) where that distinction is almost entirely ceremonial and the nobles are no wealthier than anyone else and all privileges they get are voluntary and based on their personal success as leaders. This is pretty common in Africa, Southeast Asia, and the Americas.

Agricultural societies are only egalitarian when it’s farming techniques are still ineffective, leaving no surplus to be consumed by a non-farming elite.

Then in that definition, gender inequality was really only a thing in the Industrial Age (and even then only for women who weren't poor), since women contributed greatly to important industries like farming, clothmaking, etc. in practically every society and always had a say in how the household was ran.

Yes, but there is still an ocean of difference between having de-facto power in a household and having legally recognised power in a household.

Muslim women contribute everything to the household and have nothing to show for it.

 

[Tour of Italy]

The fastest way to strike a death blow to the neoliberal world order is for more people to stop feeding the machine. If you think it’s unethical for Bezos to have billions, then stop giving him your money.

Your participation in our industrial society should be conscientious and deliberate. I have an unironic respect for crunchy granola types who actually do their research to choose which products to support. The place where modern progressives and conservative traditionalists form the closest relationships is almost always the stalls of a Farmer’s Market.

I think there’s a good case to be made for how capitalism has lifted the modern world out of poverty and into an unprecedented era of happiness and stability, but I think there’s a better case to be made for the idea that for a man and his society to be free, he must engage with capitalism in a principled and informed manner. I sincerely wish there was more anti-consumerism on the right, although the shift is there.

One way I’ve tried to look at it is if you’re using your wealth to buy convenience or time, do your best to make sure that time is well spent. You don’t have to leave the grid to practice that.

 

[TheRedChair]

The main reason that anti-tech ideologies are largely thought experiments rather than a feasible ideology is the fact you can't make people forget previously experienced convenience. If the grid collapses, someone will rebuild it, because the knowledge never goes away. Burn every book and manual, and you're still gonna have someone jury rig comparable setups because they miss hot showers and indoor plumbing. Short of complete human extinction, tech is here to stay and will be expounded upon accordingly. Sucks, but it is what it is.

As much as I like to agree with the comment of "tech is here to stay" All you have to look at the middle east.

And see how backward and ignorant the average person is over there.

A thousand years ago they, the Muslims believed knowledge was essential to its teachings with Islam.

But to put it bluntly the greed of man for the sake of power uses religion as a method of control.

By keeping people ignorant by religion the jewel of knowledge of thousands of years of learning and history were completely destroyed by later secular priests of Islam.

Islam is not the only religion that did this. The Catholic church was guilty as sin for over a thousand years as well.

It took the Protestant Referendum, several civil wars that cost 10's millions of lives to break the thousand years of Catholic control of knowledge.

However too much tech will also do the same thing as religion. Whom Ever controls the method of transferring real knowledge controls all.

That is what is happening with Woke Liberal Media and those who try to influence their ideology to others.

This is something I'm dead set against. You need real and truthful knowledge to grow. Otherwise you are nothing but a fucking wage slave for the rest of your life.

I have stated in the past that you MUST have as many skill sets as possible to get ahead in life. This is how I got ahead against all of the Dick heads and their specialized singular skill sets in the Silicon Valley Region.

It's using tech, and the ability to acquire the knowledge that is available freely, as well as the common sense to get ahead in life.

Otherwise you are fucked... and you probably don't even know it until it is too damned late in life and you wasted away your prime years of making money.

Forever a useless keyboard warrior that no one gives one shit when your value is considered worthless by the echo chamber gods of Woke Liberal Ideology of today.

 

[Male Idiot]

What no one ever brings up in ancap or luddist or anarchist circles is, even of their idyllic lifestyle did work, they would be conquered by an authotarian, collectivist neighbour in a very short order.

Avatar series aren't real life. Sorry Mr Cameron, explorer of the deep.

 

[BirdUp]

What no one ever brings up in ancap or luddist or anarchist circles is, even of their idyllic lifestyle did work, they would be conquered by an authotarian, collectivist neighbour in a very short order.

Avatar series aren't real life. Sorry Mr Cameron, explorer of the deep.

how lol
you can’t apply the argument of “well, other states would invade” to a brave new world where states wouldn’t re-emerge for some time (because circumstances would force the survivors into nomadism, and—if you didnt realize it by now—states only emerge in sedentary societies)