NeoGAF & ResetERA - The Hilarious N̶e̶v̶e̶r̶e̶n̶d̶i̶n̶g̶ Splintering "Gaming" Forum Circus

He knows market forces exist, the question is do they drive the behavior of these huge companies that have been around for decades with managerial groups running things that had nothing to do with the original success of the company. When it comes to profit motive versus virtue signaling and woke politics, the answer is no.

Don't be obtuse.



Yes, which shows the purchasing power of SJWs, so why do companies fall all over themselves to pander to them?



No, many of these ginormous conglomerates are not going to be brought down by little guy, especially in this age of corporate collusion and focused media attacks than can strangle competitors in the crib. What are you going to do if you try to go up against the big guys and your payments processing gets shut off? It's already happened.

Like I said before, these are just old and outmoded ways of thinking. Yes, corporate wokeness can open up avenues for competition, but in an era of rapidly consolidating power the effect only goes so far.
Market forces are not "the little guy", and the fact you think every single big-ass corporation marches in lock-step with each other shows the profound depths of your idiocy. China's been consistently eating the lunch of "woke capital" over the past few years despite the noise that gets made about it every now and then, and believe it or not, "THEY" can't simply turn off the money spigot for everyone regardless of what your doomer friends say.
 
Market forces are not "the little guy", and the fact you think every single big-ass corporation marches in lock-step with each other shows the profound depths of your idiocy. China's been consistently eating the lunch of "woke capital" over the past few years despite the noise that gets made about it every now and then, and believe it or not, "THEY" can't simply turn off the money spigot for everyone regardless of what your doomer friends say.
Some absurd strawmanning, missing the point, and dumb non sequiturs about China. Disappointing.

Are you going to answer the question I posed or are you going to ignore it?

Payment processors for years have been shutting out countless people for political wrongthink, literally turning down free money, the only reason for their existence. Patreon kicked off freakin Sargon of Akkad because his lolbertarianism was a little too spicy for them. That started an exodus that probably cost them millions , and all's they had to do was just take the money and take their cut. There are endless examples from every payment processor you can think of: Paypal, Stripe, MasterCard, etc. A comprehensive list would be insane.

Jeff Bezos, the guy that just wants to hoover up all the money there is according to you, and Amazon placed a moratorium on police use of their facial recognition tech in order to appease BLM last year. That move will probably cost them tens or hundreds of millions in the long run as police switch to alternate providers. Microsoft annunced a similar moratorium and IBM got out of the biz completely.

Just a couple of examples.

So how exactly do you explain any of that with your "these guys are just slaves to Mammon" take? I don't think you can.
Here it is again in case you missed it.

I've provided the evidence and now maybe you can provide a counterpoint.
 
Yes, which shows the purchasing power of SJWs, so why do companies fall all over themselves to pander to them?
Because they're stupid, and if they keep doing it, they'll pay the price. Maybe not immediately, but over the long run you can't simply escape economics.
 
Because they're stupid, and if they keep doing it, they'll pay the price. Maybe not immediately, but over the long run you can't simply escape economics.
Yes, that's the point, they ignore market signals in favor of virtue signals.

Whether they pay for it in the long run is another question. A lot of these companies have a great amount of accrued value in terms of infrastructure and IP that was built up by previous managers. It's not just a case of "they have to follow the dollars or disappear." There's legacy and inertia.
 
Dude, are you aware that there are huge activist investment firms and hedge funds whose specific goals are to drive corporate policy changes irrespective of the impact to profit? The idea that stock prices are tightly tethered to a companies profit margins/overall health or that the health of the stock market is tied to the health of the economy is completely outmoded anyways. You're just looking at this stuff in a way that is dated and frankly wrong. Individual investors have very little say in corporate board rooms, everything is controlled by funds and banks, they have the leverage and will make money whether stocks go up or down.

I won't call you a cuck but your take is frankly laughable. Woke Capital is real, whatever you want to think.

Payment processors for years have been shutting out countless people for political wrongthink, literally turning down free money, the only reason for their existence. Patreon kicked off freakin Sargon of Akkad because his lolbertarianism was a little too spicy for them. That started an exodus that probably cost them millions , and all's they had to do was just take the money and take their cut. There are endless examples from every payment processor you can think of: Paypal, Stripe, MasterCard, etc. A comprehensive list would be insane.

Jeff Bezos, the guy that just wants to hoover up all the money there is according to you, and Amazon placed a moratorium on police use of their facial recognition tech in order to appease BLM last year. That move will probably cost them tens or hundreds of millions in the long run as police switch to alternate providers. Microsoft annunced a similar moratorium and IBM got out of the biz completely.

Just a couple of examples.

So how exactly do you explain any of that with your "these guys are just slaves to Mammon" take? I don't think you can.
I'm sure most of these companies don't do anything without a cost/benefit analysis. In Patreon's case, the cost of kicking Sargon off the platform was apparently worth the benefit of keeping most of its woke and normie userbase, even if the move initially cost Patreon a few million. When you're a multinational corporation whose profits are in the billions of dollars, losing a few million from a bunch of people you don't want as customers in the first place is no biggie.

"Woke Capital" exists only as long as it doesn't fuck with the bottom line.
 
I'm sure most of these companies don't do anything without a cost/benefit analysis. In Patreon's case, the cost of kicking Sargon off the platform was apparently worth the benefit of keeping most of its woke and normie userbase, even if the move initially cost Patreon a few million. When you're a multinational corporation whose profits are in the billions of dollars, losing a few million from a bunch of people you don't want as customers in the first place is no biggie.

"Woke Capital" exists only as long as it doesn't fuck with the bottom line.
Patreon wasn't going to lose anybody by keeping Sargon, nobody was going to quit because he was on there, and there was never even the suggestion that that was the case. The idea that they have a cost/benefit analysis at the highest levels whenever they delete someone is hilarious. There's a "content manager" type that gets together with their peers and then they hit a button, most likely.

Patreons profits are not in the billions of dollars. It's revenues aren't in the billions, not even close. Patreons move definitely "fucked with the bottom line" as I demonstrated. It's a relatively smallish tech company and can't be throwing away money.

Everything you typed was wrong.

Edit: no more thread derail anyway.
 
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The idea that they have a cost/benefit analysis at the highest levels whenever they delete someone is hilarious. There's a "content manager" type that gets together with their peers and then they hit a button, most likely.
I think a lot of these dumb moderation decisions are made at lower levels than people think, by low-paid functionaries and woke jannies. They're willing to take shitty jobs for shitty pay just to be able to yeet people. I think this is especially true on Twitter, where the sheer volume of material to moderate means having to hire lots of low quality people to do it.

There's also the fact that something like Twitter is basically immune to normal market forces, at least in the short term, because its value seems totally disconnected with its (in)ability ever to turn anything like a profit. It has seemed for years as if it is endlessly swirling down the toilet yet never actually fully goes broke.

They have been lucky so far in that their few competitors are, amazingly, even more incompetent than they are, but eventually, they'll go the way of Digg. All it took for Digg to go from being the reddit of its day to barely in existence was one fucked up design change.
 
Patreon wasn't going to lose anybody by keeping Sargon, nobody was going to quit because he was on there, and there was never even the suggestion that that was the case. The idea that they have a cost/benefit analysis at the highest levels whenever they delete someone is hilarious. There's a "content manager" type that gets together with their peers and then they hit a button, most likely.

Patreons profits are not in the billions of dollars. It's revenues aren't in the billions, not even close. Patreons move definitely "fucked with the bottom line" as I demonstrated. It's a relatively smallish tech company and can't be throwing away money.

Everything you typed was wrong.
Of course Patreon's profits aren't in the billions. I was referencing companies other than Patreon. Take Nike, for instance, a company that's made bank by riding the woke wave. No one there gives a flying fuck about Colin Kaepernick except as a marketing tool.

At any rate, Sargon is the least of Patreon's problems, given how the whole place is being held aloft on a cloud of VC money. Also, the idea of Patreon's content managers -- or any other company's content managers, for that matter -- are out there unilaterally doing this shit without so much as a glance from higher ups sounds a bit absurd. But enough about this shitty derail.
 
The funny thing is, I don't think they're entirely inaccurate that Gamergate and Trump and related, they're just too dim to put it together. It's not that there's a line from Gamergate to Trump, it's that they're both similar types of movements that are symptoms of the same thing. They're populist reactions to incestuous elites shitting on normal people from their ivory towers. Unfortunately instead of taking a step back and thinking "gee, maybe those people are angry for a reason", they concluded that the problem is that the plebs still refuse to obey their betters and be grateful for their benevolent guidance and wisdom.
 
Of course Patreon's profits aren't in the billions. I was referencing companies other than Patreon. Take Nike, for instance, a company that's made bank by riding the woke wave. No one there gives a flying fuck about Colin Kaepernick except as a marketing tool.
I just find it amusing they paid millions of dollars to a shitty football player for refusing to do his job, in order to virtue signal and sell their shoes made with slave labor in the Third World.
 
Because they're stupid, and if they keep doing it, they'll pay the price. Maybe not immediately, but over the long run you can't simply escape economics.
Market forces are highly attenuated in a virtual monopoly.
There's also the fact that something like Twitter is basically immune to normal market forces, at least in the short term, because its value seems totally disconnected with its (in)ability ever to turn anything like a profit. It has seemed for years as if it is endlessly swirling down the toilet yet never actually fully goes broke.
I see you touched on this. I need to learn some trigger discipline.
 
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I see you touched on this. I need to learn some trigger discipline.
No biggie, I somewhat contradicted myself although you can see why. It's not so much that Twitter is permanently immune to these forces, though, but they almost have to kick off or ban a critical mass of people that is enough to support a competitor. And that means banning normies for saying normie things. If they don't purity spiral to that extent they can probably indefinitely get away with their current behavior.

I think it will take some event like the dotcom bust of the early 2000s to show which tech companies have effectively holed themselves below the water line.

Then there are companies like Procter & Gamble that are so huge that even after losing lots of money on woke virtue signaling, they're still doing it to this day, although it's not quite in the same "men are shit" vein as the infamous ad campaign.
 
It's not so much that Twitter is permanently immune to these forces, though, but they almost have to kick off or ban a critical mass of people that is enough to support a competitor.
Back in 2007 I doubt you could find one person who thought MySpace would be nothing more than a glib joke by 2010.

My personal opinion on Twitter is that they have made the site indispensible to the business of journalism news media. Or at the very least, the people who create the shit believe that. I am certain many of these people gargle balls to not rock the boat there. It doesn't need to be top down. It just needs to be beneficial in some way for everyone involved and not necessarily beneficial in the same way for each entity (e.g. rule #6 "A good tactic is one your people enjoy").

Universities have been churning good soldiers for years (at least in the soft "sciences"). Where do those people go after school? They got jobs, eventually they wind up in management positions. I think we have at least a solid generation to go before this starts waning. I know people love to compare this shit to PC culture in the 90s, I was old enough at the time that I understood it, and this is not comparable. Free speech was not under attack the way it is today.

I don't know why some people seem to think that it is simply not possible for someone with their own agenda to be propping Twitter up. Many powerful and rich organizations would kill for the ability to steer the public conversation. The US itself has spent billions over the years to do so in other countries.

We can all agree Social Media companies are using their advertising and tracking capabilities to influence consumers. We had Cambridge Analytica in 2016, everyone forgot about it and there were basically no repercussions. I just see it as a logical extension of that.

I'm not saying this is a fact, but people posing the question should not be dismissed out of hand like they are babbling retards or something.
 
Refused to comment to Kotaku when asked about the Harry Potter dev who made "anti-SJW" YouTube videos. That means they're COMPLICIT in the troon murdering.
Honestly, "refuse to comment" is the absolute best move for a corporation to take. Let's say something did happen. 'Something bad'. Wouldn't it be better to handle it internally instead of allowing a fucking mob to screech outside your proverbial corporate offices about matters they don't understand - like what is or isn't appropriate punishment for 'something bad'?

I'm all for transparency, but if you want that then save it for the after action report. Cancel culture and #metoo shit is nothing but a slow erosion of basic legal protections. Innocent until proven guilty, trial by jury, a fucking trial at all. Firing all your talent is not the answer to every little moral problem.
 
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