Nintendo Switch 2 - For the Soytendo consoomers to speculate about the successor to the Switch, recently announced for 2025.

[Dammit Mandrake!]

...no, random janny, I don't want to participate in /v/-tier shitflinging about Nintendo game design, - and clearly you did not want to see my posting history, definitely not in this thread, - so would you kindly go touch a blade

of grass

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Let's form a protest line against the jannies.

They'll never take us all.

 

[NerdShamer]

The little goblin dudes didn't act much different whether they were just running around or up in a treehouse or whatever the fuck those things were

I thought that it was kind of cute to see them celebrating an freshly roasted meal and watching them devouring it. But since that was just about the only interesting thing that they include as ambience, aside from a Moblin eating bugs off the ground. It's part of the reason why I said that the game felt lifeless

That's because you count a treasure chest with an stick in it to be content. It's objectively filled with nothing, large swaths of nothing.

Yes, I genuinely get excited when I get gemstones or a bundle ice arrows out of a random chest.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

You say I'm obsessed with strict purposefully design, but you're obsessed with freedom, you find the freedom in and of itself fun. You're like Neon trying to break free of the Matrix or something. You see game design as shackles. This is you playing BotW when you can basically glitch the game to yield unique results:

I don't get how people talk about the merits of open world in 2025. The term Ubislop has been popularized for a reason, all the promise of open world died out once people realized it was a tool to create vast empty landscape of haphazardly placed assets that if you squint really hard they might pass for extremely shitty level design.

Ditto "emergent gameplay" which almost always happens in the start of those games when the player is low on resources and fresh to the gameplay so he has a reason to experiment. But once the player gets his bearing those events never happen since the player knows how to best achieve results.

I wanted to write about BotW examples, but it's literally the same examples of Far Cry 3. Except in Far Cry 3 I never stopped with engaging enemies because weapon durability.

 

[Retarded Weeb]

It's a 2D game that forces you to move with the analog stick, entirely to facilitate 360-degree aiming which I often felt was more a handicap rather than a cool feature.

That's a bit of an autistic complaint, but I myself am disgusted by Souls games having you attack with a shoulder button or BotW mapping attack to the Y button, so fair enough.

Nintendo tried to streamline the controls by making each powerup (missiles, grapple beam, etc) activated by a button combination rather than having to manually select them like in Super Metroid.... but this winds up backfiring because in the heat of the moment, sometimes I can't recall what buttons I have to hold down to have the grapple beam active. Also its affected by the 360-degree aiming as well! So things that were not a big deal in Super Metroid, become an ordeal in Dread.

The adventure is very linear, though at times its unclear where to go--I legit feared that I had softlocked the game a few times, until I found the minor detail I had overlooked that allowed progress to be made. And yet it still has the problem that sometimes a necessary path is hidden behind an unmarked secret which is not indicated in any way.

The game almost feels like it has a "romhack" mentality. In the few cases where you can explore and find things like Energy Tanks... they're always hidden behind some bullshit skill challenge that requires you to be a shinespark master. I wouldn't mind if it was just a few of these things, but it happened so often that after awhile I just stopped getting excited whenever I found one. It felt like the game was almost punishing me, like "Oh, good, you found this hidden item.... now figure out this obtuse game mechanic so you can actually acquire it!" Imagine if in Zelda, every time you found a heart container, you couldn't actually pick it up until you had aced an algebra test. That's what this feels like.

The game just feels "lazy." A lot of the bosses are literally repeats, all the EMMI environments look the same (and kinda look like they could be a stock asset), and halfway thru the game it starts having you fight these bird dudes with spears who are literally just the same battle copy-pasted.

Now, the next things could be a "me" problem, as admittedly I've always had certain problems with 3D graphics, one of them being.... a lot of visuals are unclear. There's this "counter" mechanic where if you press the counter button when you see the enemy flash, you counter them, stunning them and allowing some free hits. But some enemies (like those spear bird guys) have attacks that cause a flash that looks a lot like the counter indicator, which led often to me mistaking one for the other.

Lack of clarity in general is a problem. I've had times where I literally didn't know something was an obstacle (or even present at all) until I ran into it/took damage because it looked like background decoration or blended in too well.

And maybe it's just me, but the game's graphical aesthetic also causes it to come off as looking like it was made on a budget, despite being a AAA title.

And going back to the "romhack" mentality, there's a few boss battles where I was having trouble, and it turned out to be because there was something I was supposed to do that I had no idea I even could do. I literally had to look a few up to realize what the game expected of me (this is more true near the end) and then I realized certain animations were meant to be hints... but besides the existing unclarity of the aesthetic, a lot of the characters and animations are rather small on screen, and I'm not sure how I was meant to make certain connections.

The game makes a weird choice midway thru... the least-spoilery way I can put it is that it stops playing by Classic Metroid rules and starts playing by Fusion rules. This isn't a huge problem per se, but I imagine it can be a weird moment if this happens to be your first Metroid game.

Skill issue.

And there's probably more I'm forgetting, I could really bitch about Dread all day. And yeah its odd that nobody else seems to have that much of a problem. To be honest I think its a case of Metroid fans being so starved for a new game that wasn't a remake or quirky spinoff that they would've accepted anything.

But of course its also fanboy stupidity being stupidly loyal to a specific franchise. Metroid Dread might have been acceptable if there were no other metroidvanias available right now, but the market is flooded with them and I would say a lot of them are just objectively better than Metroid Dread. I swear, if Dread had been just some indie game without a famous name attached, nobody would be praising this shit.

I'm not a massive Metroid fan or anything, I literally just played through all the games for the first time the same year Dread came out and mostly think they're all 8/10 games, but I thought Dread was just as good or a bit better than the rest. The game is a little harder than the previous games, and you just sound like you're mad because bad.

 

[NerdShamer]

Probably. I can also imagine full grown adults who still think Disney films are the height of cinematic achievement

Disney fans aren't real people

Meant balance that it's easy to powerlevel, trainers AI and team composition is dogshit and the new games just throw legendaries at you. That gave birth to Nuzlocke that changes the rules to forcibly reduce player resources. It's comparable to mixing rock paper scissors with russian roulette

Eh, it's a little bit too autistic for me.

Like with most media, you can make good products for both children and adults, but with Nintendo it's made so even the really dumb kids will be able to finish. The games are tailored made to create the illusion the player done something special.

So, not too long ago, I gave Brothership an try and I'm probably getting really close to finishing it. Has something happened with Nintendo for them to be constantly including pop up messages on random shit? Because most of the older games with the series just did it with the characters stopping the action to give an in-character speech about whatever and that was it instead of giving out reminders on what to do next (no wait, that's actually an old thing that they did)

I don't get how people talk about the merits of open world in 2025. The term Ubislop has been popularized for a reason, all the promise of open world died out once people realized it was a tool to create vast empty landscape of haphazardly placed assets that if you squint really hard they might pass for extremely shitty level design

Case in point: That Immortals game that Ubisoft did is literally just random shit and puzzles that's decorating the place.

 

[Calandrino]

It's a 2D game that forces you to move with the analog stick,

That's a bit of an autistic complaint,

This is the specific reason that I never even tried that game

 

[Tri-Tachyon'sClown]

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Yeah just found out about this, I'm a day late it seems. I mean not that I give a shit about consoles beyond emulation and the ones I already have (two I got for free) but all this really does is set yet another precedence that niggercattle standards are at an all time low.

at least i use it yo play mario kart with my wife and daughter.

That's the only excuse I'll accept for not being a niggercattle while owning a Switch 2.

If you are going to play a system for years, it doesn't really matter when you buy it. Early or late? Whatever.

I mean if they work out any kinks the release version of a console has, late is better. Plus, more games are developed for said console so if none of the release titles are worth jack shit (and you've already played last-gen games to death so playing them on a new console is unappealing at the time) you won't have a multi-hundred dollar plastic box wasting away until a game you might like releases. Far better late than early, unless you're really into multiplayer games and you rather get in early, every multiplayer game is the best when people are taking their "first steps".

 

[Dammit Mandrake!]

Anyone have hands on the GameCube controllers? How are they?

 

[Tri-Tachyon'sClown]

Anyone have hands on the GameCube controllers? How are they?

I've had my GameCube controller for decades and it still works, it feels great even with the amount of tape I had to wrap around it. It's amazing how they went from whatever the fuck the N64 controller was (I admit I forget how it feels, my brother got into a hissy fit over me beating his ass in Smash Bros 64 which prompted my sleep deprived father to just get rid of it all, he did regret it though and got us a GameCube when it released, fun times) to easily the best controller I ever used IMO.

 

[nicotinehouse]

Anyone have hands on the GameCube controllers? How are they?

You mean the switch online gamecube controller? I got one to use with the blue retro adapter for the original console. It does not pair yet, but the firmware dev for the blue retro is working on it. It is recognized by Windows out of the box, so it should work for emulation, but I didn't try that yet. It's basically the exact same controller as the original minus the wire. I weighed it at 210.8 grams compared to the original which is about 204 grams not including the wire. It feels the exact same to me as far as button presses and weight is concerned. In addition, it has a voice chat button, a home button, a pairing button, and the switch screen shot button around the usb c port at the top where the wire comes out on the original controller. There is a small Z left button under the left trigger which the original does not have. It comes with a black Nintendo branded USB a to c cable. The cable is decent length but not as long as the original, I'd say it's about 4/5 the length of the original.

 

[Dammit Mandrake!]

I've had my GameCube controller for decades and it still works, it feels great even with the amount of tape I had to wrap around it. It's amazing how they went from whatever the fuck the N64 controller was (I admit I forget how it feels, my brother got into a hissy fit over me beating his ass in Smash Bros 64 which prompted my sleep deprived father to just get rid of it all, he did regret it though and got us a GameCube when it released, fun times) to easily the best controller I ever used IMO.

I appreciate your answer. Thank you. It was good!

You mean the switch online gamecube controller?

But I meant these.

I've liked Nintendo's first party retro controllers. Interested in the GameCube ones especially since my Wavebirds finally died during the Wii U Smash era.

 

[Rome's rightful successor]

That makes sense. I saw Ratatoskr posted a video today trying to defend Nintendo's pricing strategy:

The comments are glorious. The guy is getting hammered. It's the usual fare. Greedy company, guy's brain broke, how dare you defend the corporation.

yep

 

[LightDragonman1]

The little goblin dudes didn't act much different whether they were just running around or up in a treehouse or whatever the fuck those things were. The horse dudes who charge straight at you never didn't do that. Any behavioral or circumstantial differences seem minor and insufficient to cover up the small variety.

The Lizalfols, Octoroks, and Wizard enemies all involved much more variety from what I’ve experienced. The Bokoblins are more akin to the standard enemy types like the Zombiemen from Doom in my eyes.

Not only did it take too long to get there, I never did. And I did a fair bit of exploration. I probably spent too much time trying to kill those horseman enemies, who are cheap as fuck by the way, but but I got around quite a bit. Found a swamp, some ruins, and climbed mountains. Not a soul in sight to my remembrance.

What I did was I started by heading towards Kakariko Village, and then got distracted by everything else on the way there. I did find things like the horse stables, Great Fairy Fountains, and eventually, the NPCs at the main village. Said village was also heavily Japanese inspired, which made a nice contrast to the tropical Lurelin Village and more European Hateno Village later on.

That's because you count a treasure chest with an stick in it to be content. It's objectively filled with nothing, large swaths of nothing. I played the game, man. I'm sorry that you count every little blade of grass as a unique experience but most people don't and that's why there's a vocal contingent of BotW detractors who agree with me.

Again, based on all that I’ve played and mentioned, there was much more. And no, I’m not counting the treasure chests and grasslands in it either. That’s not what I mean when I mention it being a unique experience.

I'm really glad you enjoyed your time and felt like you had meaningful experiences in it, but not everyone did. Do you not see why I quit if I found nothing, nobody, and just seeds and weapons and junk and shrines? Can you tell me why I should've kept going after 8 hours of what felt like a beta release for play testers?

Because it sounds like you didn’t even get to the first village or even attempt to start the main storyline before you had enough. And it definitely didn’t take that long to get to it, at least in my experience. Heck, I could’ve gotten there sooner where it not for me getting g distracted by the other parts of the world.

BotW has no points of interest. The map is random shit thrown at the wall. Wind Waker is tailored for a good experience where you're always finding something interesting, even if, like BotW, what you find isn't always the most exciting. Nobody's jaw dropped seeing Tingle's Tower. This is kind of a Zelda problem in general, but at least these landmarks all looked unique and served SOME purpose beyond holding a breakable weapon. They certainly looked more interesting than anything I found in BotW.

Okay, at this point I’m really questioning what all you did in your apparent “8 hours”. Because the first few things they mark on the map are meant as waypoints to the interesting landmarks, of which vary depending on the part of the world. Heck, it was even easier than in Wind Waker.

Did you use a guide or something? It's all way too convenient how everything was perfectly laid out for your experience. You always found something interesting. Didn't take too long for anything. You'd think the game was linear based on how you describe it. That, or you're looking at it with rose-tinted glasses

No guide needed. Just saw where the points of interest that the game recommend you start with first, and headed that way immediately after gaining the main abilities. Said opening part also didn’t feel any longer than some other beginning parts in other Zelda titles.

They were meaty, multihour sessions. I explored the world mostly, didn't bother with shrines after the first 2 or 3. After the beginning area I explored mountains (climbing was fun at first), ruins (some seemingly invincible, iirc, laser monsters resided there), fought a bunch of horsemen in a valley for at least an hour, and then made it to a dingy swamp I didn't like, which is where I quit.

So correct me if I’m wrong, butit sounds to me like you went across Hyrule Fields, got attacked by a few Guardians (which aren’t invincible by the way), then headed into the Lanayru Wetlands, and then gave up.

…….Of course you’d find it barren and lifeless. You didn’t even explore a tenth of what the game has to offer, nor did you even seem to consider heading to Kakariko Village first.

I got the Remote Bomb and Stasis, MAYBE Cryonis/Magnesis (don't remember). Looking at the wiki...is that really all there is, 4 different abilities? This game really was a damn tech demo.

That, and the Champion abilities that you get from completing the main quests, which give you a free Revive, a super high jump, a few auto parries, and a lightning summon.

That, and the way all the abilities allow for experimentation which is encouraged, beyond just set places where you are intended to use one specific gadget like in prior games.

You say I'm obsessed with strict purposefully design, but you're obsessed with freedom, you find the freedom in and of itself fun. You're like Neon trying to break free of the Matrix or something. You see game design as shackles

It’s more that I find the freedom to be great not just because it’s freedom, but because it is encouraged by the enemy encounters and level designs themselves. It’s much more hands off, almost like games such asDeus Ex, just in an open-world setting.

And that’s not to say I don’t enjoy the stricter approach. I wouldn’t have loved WW and TP if that was the case.

They flirted with this design philosophy with Mario too, Odyssey is great but by letting you "play how you want" and shitting Moons everywhere they made them less important. That's the same thing with shrines, more isn't better. Nonlinear isn't better. You kinda don't give a shit when you don't have to really try to get somewhere in Mario anymore, there's no "how the hell do I get up there?", you can just go dick around and find enough easy Moons instead.

In that game and BOTW though, you’d be missing out on getting the required number of items to actually progress or see yourself become stronger if you just stuck to the easy ones. Heck, the final boss in BOTW is made much easier should you actually clear the four main quest lines first.

The easier ones are more of a bonus.

It's an objective fact that traditional dungeons could exist in BotW, which is one of the few things I said I'm objectively correct about. They'd should be made a little more flexible to jive with the game, but they wouldn't even need to, technically. They could be repurposed as end-game content that assumes you have all the items or something. Anything's better than not having them at all.

Dungeons as the end game content. This from the guy who gave up eight hours in. Heck, the last level, Hyrule Castle, does have many of the hallmarks of a dungeon. As are things like the Yiga Hideout and the giant mazes.

Yes it would be objectively good if larger dungeons were implemented. But it’s also objectively correct that the game still works well thanks to how the overworld and such are designed, along with several areas of interest.

Honestly, knowing that you didn’t get very far into the game does explain a lot. You could argue that the game didn’t hook you in immediately, which is fair, but again, I found the opening hours no less tedious than the ones in other games.

Maybe even less, as it takes a good while before the seas become accessible in WW (forced stealth mission in the beginning) and for the world to become available inTP (a long day in the life of a farm boy first). BOTW throws you right into the adventure in the beginning, just with a few recommended shrines to acquire abilities and to understand how the physics and chemistry systems work.

 

[NerdShamer]

The Lizalfols, Octoroks, and Wizard enemies all involved much more variety from what I’ve experienced.

Most of them didn't really do much of anything special, aside from the Lizardmen taking no shit from me trying to mug them.

Heck, the last level, Hyrule Castle, does have many of the hallmarks of a dungeon.

Technically, it does. But it's kind of too barren for it to be an actual Zelda dungeon

 

[Plumber's Crack]

I've had my GameCube controller for decades and it still works, it feels great even with the amount of tape I had to wrap around it. It's amazing how they went from whatever the fuck the N64 controller was (I admit I forget how it feels, my brother got into a hissy fit over me beating his ass in Smash Bros 64 which prompted my sleep deprived father to just get rid of it all, he did regret it though and got us a GameCube when it released, fun times) to easily the best controller I ever used IMO.

I'm in the camp that believes it was a good but pretty flawed controller (tiny D-Pad and C-Stick really hold it back) but if there's one thing it did right it was the octagonal analog notches. I think N64 had them too but GCN is where it really began to benefit from that design, what with games like Monkey Ball and Smellee needing proper precision to get the best out of. I don't think it should have been something that all competing brands should have adapted, but more like if it was just a Nintendo design choice that stuck around.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

The Lizalfols, Octoroks, and Wizard enemies all involved much more variety from what I’ve experienced.

I don't remember those, maybe the octorok. I remember the horse guys, goblins, laser things, and I think some bird-like enemies perhaps?

What I did was I started by heading towards Kakariko Village, and then got distracted by everything else on the way there.

How'd you know where it was and exactly how to get there? I don't remember being told, I don't even remember a hint, unless it was vague. Could be misremembering.

Again, based on all that I’ve played and mentioned, there was much more.

Let's say you really are finding interesting discoveries. Okay. I just got unlucky and managed to play for a decent amount of time and find nothing, somehow. I can accept that. But even then it has to come down to how you perceive the rate of unique things you find, because while I can accept that I missed the supposedly cool stuff--ALL OF IT--what needs to then be the case is that you found cool things at a slow rate but felt like it was every step of your journey.

Because when it comes down to it, again, we played the same game. I covered a decent chunk of land. That can't be dismissed. Everyone may have different experiences and playstyles which lend to discovering things at different rates, and maybe ours were very different, but in the end it's still the same map with the same content, and if what I explored was any indication of how much is out there to find, it's not much.

The only other explanation is that Nintendo poorly distributed the points of interest so badly that the areas I went into had nothing, and the ones you went into had all the worthwhile content. No matter how we look at it, this is a problem with the game. It should be impossible to feel like the map is empty, even if it's not, because you distribute points of interest properly to avoid that.

Because the first few things they mark on the map are meant as waypoints to the interesting landmarks, of which vary depending on the part of the world.

I don't remember them doing that, maybe the map sucks or something. What probably happened is I went to explore in the open world out of curiosity like I've done in other open world games, and was punished for it.

Said opening part also didn’t feel any longer than some other beginning parts in other Zelda titles.

It felt the longest out of any of them, except TP, which is literally molasses. Guess it might depend on what you qualify as an opening area though.

So correct me if I’m wrong, butit sounds to me like you went across Hyrule Fields, got attacked by a few Guardians (which aren’t invincible by the way), then headed into the Lanayru Wetlands, and then gave up.

I was in some icy mountains too, and a deep valley. Maybe that's both still part of Hyrule Field, idk. Since I fought some goblins in tree forts i assume I was in a forestry area, but maybe that's also part of Hyrule Field. Either way, it was a lot of exploration, if it's a relatively small amount then that just speaks to how big the world is, which is cool, but they needed more stuff in it.

That, and the Champion abilities that you get from completing the main quests, which give you a free Revive, a super high jump, a few auto parries, and a lightning summon.

That, and the way all the abilities allow for experimentation which is encouraged, beyond just set places where you are intended to use one specific gadget like in prior games.

Summoning lightning sounds cool, that's one more ability then. Wouldn't really call a receive an ability. Maybe high jump but it sounds super optional.

It’s more that I find the freedom to be great not just because it’s freedom, but because it is encouraged by the enemy encounters and level designs themselves.

Definitely not the enemies I fought. Most just charged at you no different than in OoT.

One, and only one, notable setup existed that I saw. There was a boulder set above an incline where if it fel it'd crush some goblins. Well, I killed them without even noticing it. I reloaded to try to kill them in a more fun way using it, but they'd notice me and disperse. I tried it once more and it missed them. I think I finally got the trap to work, which seems to be Nintendo trying to hand you an obvious, easy one as a teaching moment, but it wasn't very good.

The game honestly feels like it needed more time in the oven.

In that game and BOTW though, you’d be missing out on getting the required number of items to actually progress or see yourself become stronger if you just stuck to the easy ones.

Maybe, but it still fundamentally makes Stars feel less important to make them available everywhere. Similar to dungeons being replaced by shrines. Now maybe people like stumbling over Moons every 2 seconds, okay, I can't argue that you can't prefer that, but I'm still right by logic that they're objectively less interesting and important because of the principle of scarcity and such.

Dungeons as the end game content. This from the guy who gave up eight hours in.

That's because Nintendo either had insignificant content to fill the world, OR had enough but poorly distributed it. If you watched that WW video I linked to illustrate how even less content can feel like more you'd understand game design better. Pacing is very important, BotW failed that (unless you expect everyone to play the same way in an OPEN WORLD game that tries to push the idea of freedom).

Heck, the last level, Hyrule Castle, does have many of the hallmarks of a dungeon. As are things like the Yiga Hideout and the giant mazes.

I watch lots of gaming videos, and no, they don't. Consensus is, and by every in-depth review I've seen, the closest either new Zelda gets to a dungeon is TotK. They have some things similar to dungeons but they're still missing key things. I think it was maybe AntDude who best broke them down, I'll see if I can find the video but he goes over the similarities and differences, and I agree they're only dungeon-esque, not by any means a replacement for them.

But it’s also objectively correct that the game still works well thanks to how the overworld and such are designed, along with several areas of interest.

My experience says otherwise, you want to dismiss it because it wasn't your experience, but it's valid. I'm not nearly alone in these critiques.

Honestly, knowing that you didn’t get very far into the game does explain a lot.

Supposedly BotW takes about 50 hours to beat on average if you're just playing through it. I played over 5 hours, but under 10. I should've experienced about 10% of the game. If that's not a good enough amount of time to see the good stuff it's a flaw in the game, not me not giving it enough time.

Maybe even less, as it takes a good while before the seas become accessible in WW (forced stealth mission in the beginning)

That stealth section is probably the game's biggest flaw, especially since it's so early on. It's tolerable the first time through but is a replay killer tbh, and isn't very fun. I'm able to criticize my favorite Zelda, you don't seem able to criticize BotW at all. It's perfect by your estimate in every conceivable way. Your only minor concession is "it'd be nice to have dungeons", but you're adamant it does not need them and is perfectly fine without them.

You can't paint me as the unreasonable one here when you defend everything everyone hates about BotW, even its fans often admit they're flaws despite not ruining the game for them. You make excuses for low enemy variety, for breakable weapons, for the dead open world, for the lack of music, for the story (what story?!), etc.

I'm in the camp that believes it was a good but pretty flawed controller (tiny D-Pad and C-Stick really hold it back) but if there's one thing it did right it was the octagonal analog notches. I think N64 had them too but GCN is where it really began to benefit from that design, what with games like Monkey Ball and Smellee needing proper precision to get the best out of. I don't think it should have been something that all competing brands should have adapted, but more like if it was just a Nintendo design choice that stuck around.

To me the only flaws were not having a 2nd Z button and the dpad being a bit too rigid and small (not ideal for fighting games, worked for everything else basically).

 

[Dammit Mandrake!]

aside from the Lizardmen taking no shit from me trying to mug them.

They did a really good job programming the Lizalfos. Those guys were always a fight I had to think about.

 

[LightDragonman1]

I don't remember them doing that, maybe the map sucks or something. What probably happened is I went to explore in the open world out of curiosity like I've done in other open world games, and was punished for it.

After completing the opening and such, the King will mark Impa's location, and you just need to go into the Quest section in the main menu, set it as the active location, and presto.

Because when it comes down to it, again, we played the same game. I covered a decent chunk of land. That can't be dismissed. Everyone may have different experiences and playstyles which lend to discovering things at different rates, and maybe ours were very different, but in the end it's still the same map with the same content, and if what I explored was any indication of how much is out there to find, it's not much.

The only other explanation is that Nintendo poorly distributed the points of interest so badly that the areas I went into had nothing, and the ones you went into had all the worthwhile content. No matter how we look at it, this is a problem with the game. It should be impossible to feel like the map is empty, even if it's not, because you distribute points of interest properly to avoid that.

Again, that was only a small chunk, and nowhere near enough in my experience to fully appreciate the detail in the world. I think this is why it is recommended, should you be looking for the more interesting things right away, to set a single location of interest on the map and then head to it, as from there, every other discovery will occur naturally.

Hence why the game marks seeking out Impa as the first major quest immediately following the initial Plateau. That direction has many interesting landmarks along the way, and same goes for the paths on the way to the four major areas.

Supposedly BotW takes about 50 hours to beat on average if you're just playing through it. I played over 5 hours, but under 10. I should've experienced about 10% of the game. If that's not a good enough amount of time to see the good stuff it's a flaw in the game, not me not giving it enough time.

Did you set out to get to the main quests though? That's the key difference.

That's because Nintendo either had insignificant content to fill the world, OR had enough but poorly distributed it. If you watched that WW video I linked to illustrate how even less content can feel like more you'd understand game design better. Pacing is very important, BotW failed that (unless you expect everyone to play the same way in an OPEN WORLD game that tries to push the idea of freedom).

I thought that the way the game handled terrain and the like kept the things just far enough from each other. Helps that, should you actually choose to go to the shrines and the like (which you seem to have avoided), the long stretches feel far more manageable. Especially once you get the hang of the movement options like gliding, horse riding, and even using stasis.

I'm still right by logic that they're objectively less interesting and important because of the principle of scarcity and such.

Maybe so, but for me at least, the thing with the shrines is, again, while not all were winners, there were just as many where simply accessing them was the challenge, requiring you to solve complex puzzles and riddles, or things such as Eventide Island which was a whole survival experience. And you do need the upgrades you get from them if you are to stand a chance.

Plus, only be getting enough hearts can you acquire the Master Sword. While they may be less interesting than long form dungeons, they complement the exploration well enough.

I'm able to criticize my favorite Zelda, you don't seem able to criticize BotW at all. It's perfect by your estimate in every conceivable way. Your only minor concession is "it'd be nice to have dungeons", but you're adamant it does not need them and is perfectly fine without them.

You really want me to criticize the game? I do acknowledge that no game is perfect, and no, not even BOTW is in my eyes.

I do think that the shrines could've used a bit more variety in their layouts, that there was a bit more in terms of the storytelling, maybe have the ability to map favorite weapons to hot keys, and maybe a few more weapon types beyond just swords, bows, axes, and lances. And maybe a few more memorable tunes, I'll admit.

You can't paint me as the unreasonable one here when you defend everything everyone hates about BotW, even its fans often admit they're flaws despite not ruining the game for them. You make excuses for low enemy variety, for breakable weapons, for the dead open world, for the lack of music, for the story (what story?!), etc.

Not sure where you found fans who agree with what you found as objective flaws, which I see more as being subjective, or more you not engaging enough with it. Especially the open world being "dead", which I simply cannot agree with given all I did in it.

I admit, I'm not objective when it comes to how I look at games. Because it's very hard to do that and not come across and close-minded, or using that to feel superior to others for liking something you didn't jive with, or vice-versa. All I can do is express my thoughts, what worked and what didn't work, and come to a conclusion thusly. Same as you. I just think you saying you are objectively correct doesn't really hold water here, as you are judging it based on what you think constitutes a "true Zelda game", which is in and of itself a very subjective criteria.

 

[Princess Rescuer]

It's not just older Nintendo consoles such as SNES and Virtual Boy that I like, even the imitators of old such as WonderSwan (competitor to GBC which Nintendo set out to crush, and did, swiftly) and games like Wonder Classic (imitation of the types of Mario Golf games Camelot was banging out back then) over whatever overpriced, non-ownable, volatile hardware/games they're making these days. They're cheaper and in the hands of fans.

 

[Tri-Tachyon'sClown]

I'm in the camp that believes it was a good but pretty flawed controller (tiny D-Pad and C-Stick really hold it back) but if there's one thing it did right it was the octagonal analog notches.

Can't argue with the tiny d-pad, not much complaints from the C-Stick though, good size for what I used it for and I don't use it too often even for Melee. And those notches for the analog stick are just magical.

Also damn, you two are still going on about BotW? I respect the dedication.