Nintendo Switch 2 - For the Soytendo consoomers to speculate about the successor to the Switch, recently announced for 2025.

[Kier Starmer]

I want Metroid 4 ffs, has anyone played the Prime remaster? Is it any good?

 

[whatever I feel like]

I want Metroid 4 ffs, has anyone played the Prime remaster? Is it any good?

I purchased it and then never got around to playing it. Then I brought a second copy, sealed because I like owning things.

 

[Vyse Inglebard]

I want Metroid 4 ffs, has anyone played the Prime remaster? Is it any good?

yes it is actually really good

 

[Never Scored]

Splatoon had live service style content drops for its "seasons", just like a whole bunch of Wii U and early Switch games did. Other than Smash it was all free but operated under the same dribdrab bullshit model that other live service games did. The online multiplayer was the focus and I couldn't imagine people being satisfied with just the singleplayer. As to Mario Maker, to 95 percent of users its useless without the online to share your levels and play other people's shared levels. To the point where everyone but you wonders why the 3DS version without online was even made.

Doesn't matter, they're still not live service games. The fact remains that you can boot up your copy of Splatoon for Wii U and play it. Most people also played Halo 2 for its online multiplayer. Doesn't make it a live service game.

When people today refer to a "Live service game", they are generally referring to games where the entire software experience is provided as a service you have to connect to a server to even play . Sometimes you have to buy the game outright like Diablo IV, sometimes they are free to play like Fortnite. Regardless, when the company no longer wants to run the servers, you are unable to play the game. There have been games whose multiplayer servers shut down but the single player campaign has still been available many, many times over the years, going back into the mid-90s and nobody has ever considered those games live service games. Something made by Nintendo that is more akin to a live service game is F-Zero 99.

 

[whatever I feel like]

Doesn't matter, they're still not live service games. The fact remains that you can boot up your copy of Splatoon for Wii U and play it. Most people also played Halo 2 for its online multiplayer. Doesn't make it a live service game.

When people today refer to a "Live service game", they are generally referring to games where the entire software experience is provided as a service you have to connect to a server to even play . Sometimes you have to buy the game outright like Diablo IV, sometimes they are free to play like Fortnite. Regardless, when the company no longer wants to run the servers, you are unable to play the game. There have been games whose multiplayer servers shut down but the single player campaign has still been available many, many times over the years, going back into the mid-90s and nobody has ever considered those games live service games. Something made by Nintendo that is more akin to a live service game is F-Zero 99.

Bullshit, it refers to a model where players are kept around by a constant stream of updates, typically for the purpose of selling microtransactions.

 

[Markorian]

I want Metroid 4 ffs

Good news, Fusion has been out for almost 23 years

 

[Never Scored]

Bullshit, it refers to a model where players are kept around by a constant stream of updates, typically for the purpose of selling microtransactions.

You're wrong. The service in "Live service" refers to the game's content being provided as a service as opposed to being able to purchase the game outright and own it. It is literally not possible to outright own a copy of a game like Fortnite or Diablo IV and play it without connecting to the Internet because their gameplay is provided as a service similar to a cable TV channel. That's what makes a game a live service game. A game simply receiving updates or having an online component does not make it a live service game. The original release of Warcraft III had online multiplayer seasons and events in online multiplayer, and blizzard pushed out updates from time to time that added new units and addressed balance issues, but nobody considers the original release of Warcraft III a live service game.

The stream of updates is generally the justification for turning the game into a service as opposed to something you can own, but the updates themselves are not what makes a game a live service game. The software as a service model that was first established by corporations such as Adobe to provide software like Photoshop on a subscription basis instead of selling it outright is what makes a live service game.

You own your copy of Splatoon for Wii U and can play it any time you like. You just can't play online multiplayer. Similarly, you can still boot up up Mario Maker for Wii U, make levels for yourself or others in your house to play and play any of the levels you've downloaded previously to your console at any time. You just cannot download or upload new levels. These games remain your property and you do not need to connect to a server to play them.

All that being said, even by your definition it'd be a stretch to call those Wii U games live service games because they had no microtransactions.

 

[Dysnomia]

Also, before the “feminist” line, she tells Mario she is glad to see him still traveling.

She looks like Maetel here.

Which game is this? I haven't played a Mario past a few of the DS games and that puzzle game where the wind up toys have to be guided onto a track to the goal.

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

That sounds like a bunch of rationalization to me, plus I'm not saying she hates Mario. I just wasn't surprised to see girlboss Peach in the Mario Movie like everyone else, Odyssey was the warning signs of what was to come. Now they're doing this Mario & Peach are "friends" stuff, so it's obvious they're going to keep messing with the characters and the story.

Understandable, Odyssey is also where Nintendo deemed that Mario isn't a plumber. I guess technically the canon of Mario has been screwed since Yoshi's Island - maybe DK Country, but Odyssey is where Nintendo got more vocal about Peach and Mario being friends (this isn't a recent thing) and other weird decisions.

My only guess is that Mario and Peach being friends is to place Mario as being just a nice heroic guy who helps anyone.

Which game is this? I haven't played a Mario past a few of the DS games and that puzzle game where the wind up toys have to be guided onto a track to the goal.

Odyssey - specifically the post game after you defeat Bowser. Peach hangs out in all the worlds and wears different outfits:

Maybe I should have given Return to Dreamland

Please do, it is often regarded as Kirby's best game, or at least top 3 depending on who you ask. Personally, Return to Dream Land is where the series peaked for me, which says a lot as every mainline game is at least mid if not great. Don't let Star Allies dampen the series, that one was clearly undercooked and rushed out with about half the levels/worlds of a usual Kirby game till the free DLC updates rolled in.

Should DK always be a hard 2D platformer? I loved the 2D platformers, but the market didn't care about what DK had been. It's been like 13 years since there was a new DK game anyway, there's not really a lot of tradition to worry about.

they knew 2D DK wasn't going to sell

You say this, but literally only Tropical Freeze on Wii U didn't do well. Every other Country title, including Tropical Freeze on Switch has done well, usually very well. DK is one of Nintendo's highest grossing IPs because of the 2D games, Tropical Freeze was just released at a bad time on a console where nearly every title can be considered a bomb given how little units they sold.

As for why we haven't gotten a third DK, I just chalk it up to Retro being in chaos mode for a decade. There used to be some company reviews of them that went into how poor management was and how there were multiple shelved projects (A potential Star Fox Racing was a big rumor for awhile). Sounds like the studio literally just imploded on the inside for a good while and Nintendo seemed incapable of handling the IP on their own till Bananza.

I agree, I'd love to see Wario World 2. I didn't think about it but Bananza really would have made for a better Wario game. It doesn't feel like Donkey Kong AT ALL, really, in any way, right down to how DK doesn't even look like he should.

TBF, even Wario would feel somewhat out of place in this new Pixar design philosophy. Nintendo really removed all the edge from the Mario IP after that film and DK seems to be suffering big time, but Wario wouldn't be much better in this direction.

 

[whatever I feel like]

The feeling inside Nintendo was that DKCR was way too hard for kids, which is why the game was found used for so cheap compared to other "good" Wii games, and why Funky Mode became a thing in Tropical Freeze. Anecdotally that also scared some casuals off from Tropical Freeze.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

partner direct

Remember everyone saying Nintendo would put out more games when they consolidated their portable & home consoles?

Voxel terrain and destruction and the size of the worlds and consistency of effects they have and the speed of transitions doesn’t seem like it’d work well or look good with 3 gigs of lpddr4 ram.

It couldn't be done exactly like it is on Switch 2, but I just don't see anything so special it needs Switch 2 hardware. Worst case scenario it'd be a Pokemon Violet shit show but I'd bet it could definitely work.

its getting one a month

No, it isn't, not unless you count Drag x Drive. And that'd still be shitty anyway because launch alone should have at least have 2 new 1st party games, minimum.

has a full slate for the rest of the year.

I take it you're counting Switch 1 game updates and cross-gen releases to fluff that statement? Because afaik we know of just some boring shit like a Kirby racing spinoff. Not exactly "full slate" material...

And it still has more exclusives than the PS5.

More worthwhile exclusives, yes, but barely.

A wario world 2 would rule, but I think it would have a frenetic and sociopathic feel compared to the kind of charming way Donkey Kong is a big destructive gorilla in bananza

Wario is a little edgier than DK, but they could've tweaked the time and it'd work just fine.

Should DK always be a hard 2D platformer?

No, but it should always be a platformer of some variety first and foremost, and always feel like DK. I criticized Retro for veering from the time of Rareware's games, but after DKB their duology comparatively as sits nicely with the older DK games.

Still, considering the market rejection of Tropical Freeze, which is a beautiful amazing game that people are wrong for rejecting it.

Didn't it sell fine? And it was quite good but the weakest DKC entry.

I do like the redesign

It's good in a vacuum but inferior and wholly unnecessary; not a deal breaker but an obviously bad call. I can only hope it's temporary.

Distinctive proportions and a set of expressions let them do transformations and play scenes that probably wouldn't have worked with the old design, like naptime with the little girl. Only ever looking 'cool' feels like a limitation on what kind and quality of games you can sell starring him.

Old DK napping with Pauline would be fine, but while he was less expressive we really DON'T need this overly expressive Pixar shit to begin with. He was expressive enough, but I guess they wanted something cuter and less intimidating, as if that's what anybody asked for. Just theoretical marketing faggotry like you outlined.

2D platformers based off of style, well the genre has collapsed

Not at all, maybe outside of Nintendo but that's because they're all chasing BlackRock walking simulator bucks instead. The genre still has appeal, it sells and reviews well enough.

Well it's not like they were going to say anything committal like they're married, engaged, or dating since neither makes a lot of sense in the stories we see.

They don't have to say anything, what we see is enough. Or, what we saw. Her outdated, problematic, sexist damsel-in-distress and love interest role is out, and her girlboss friend-zoning version is coming into play instead. How progressive!

They gotta market this shit to everyone in a way that cannot generate offense to anyone except people looking to get mad.

Which is what they were already doing. Sanitizing normalcy and replacing it with progressivism is going to, at best, not move the needle, but will actually probably repel some people.

They've shown screenshots of the switch build with pretty much every bit of detail, foliage, particle effects, etc stripped out, and it was apparently still chugging then

Genuinely interesting. Is there a development history blog somewhere or something? Sounds interesting. It's just that if they were able to get ToTK to run relatively well, a game many (including Digital Foundry) speculated was probably shown running on Switch 2 hardware initially, then how the hell can toning everything down not result in DKB being playable?

The only way to square this away seems to be that the team had higher standards for a released product than Game Freak does. It was probably playable but that wasn't sufficient for them.

So, it depends on your definition of "could have run on a switch". Is it running at 12fps in most areas, dropping down to 480p due to dynamic resolution, or lower, in most cases, and having to cut out multiple boss fights and entire areas "could have run on a switch"? Then sure, but at that point, MGS5 could have run on a ps2 as well.

Wouldn't be to first Nintendo game to drop below 480 and be sub-30 fps. I don't think anything would need to be cut if they dialed back the graphics and effects, it's again probably just a matter of not wanting it to seem unimpressive and lack spectacle, not that it'd be a 2fps tech demo taking place in black voids for locations if it released for Switch 1.

The very fact you mention this kinda provides evidence against your own point. Switch 2 is probably the beefiest hardware upgrade we've gotten since the transition to hd in 7th gen, and if even it's struggling with certain aspects of the terrain destruction and creation, how would a switch 1, which is barely on par with a ps3 at best, be expected to handle it just fine?

It just seems like a lack of optimization, so if anything this goes against your point, being evidence they could've done it on S1 but they're shit as optimization. There's literally nothing so impressive that "the beefiest hardware upgrade we've gotten since the transition to hd in 7th gen" should struggle at all with an Xbox 360 graphics looking cartoon platformer. The fact it's not a rock-solid 60fps is being called out by everyone, and while I don't care much personally, it's objectively a testament to a lack of polish. You cannot both tell me they couldn't have done it and stand by that praise for S2's power.

In fact, thinking about it now, this may invalidate my earlier excuse I made for them possibly having high standards as a reason for being unable to get it running on Switch 1.

My only guess is that Mario and Peach being friends is to place Mario as being just a nice heroic guy who helps anyone.

And to make change Peach's role and image too. She needs a snarky expression and to not be a helpless object of desire. I think we've seen the end of her being kidnapped, ditzy, and emotional.

TBF, even Wario would feel somewhat out of place in this new Pixar design philosophy. Nintendo really removed all the edge from the Mario IP after that film and DK seems to be suffering big time, but Wario wouldn't be much better in this direction.

Definitely true, I mean from a gameplay perspective it feels more Wario-like. Wario is harder to Pixar-ify, so he'll probably stay out of major adventures, unfortunately.

The feeling inside Nintendo was that DKCR was way too hard for kids, which is why the game was found used for so cheap compared to other "good" Wii games, and why Funky Mode became a thing in Tropical Freeze. Anecdotally that also scared some casuals off from Tropical Freeze.

DKCR was about par for the course in difficulty. TF was insanely difficult though, actually unfair. Funky saved the game. I have no idea why there was such a a difficulty spike.

 

[Markorian]

DKCR was about par for the course in difficulty. TF was insanely difficult though, actually unfair. Funky saved the game. I have no idea why there was such a a difficulty spike.

Hard disagree. I love TF but the game is a cakewalk until the final world, and being able to bring Dixie trivializes the temple levels. Both returns and TF are way harder than the average modern nintendo game, but neither really compare much to the snes games. The 2-2 minecart level in the first game shits over 95% of the levels in returns and TF just in terms of difficulty.

 

[BullfrogBill]

I want Metroid 4 ffs, has anyone played the Prime remaster? Is it any good?

It's the same thing as the og but with double stick controls, and updated graphics. I think there's gyro control too. I prefer the og by far but I like the og graphics and controls better and think they're underrated. If you think you would prefer the game to look more like a 2020s game with modernized controls then you'll like the remaster.

 

[DoubleMint]

the canon of Mario

Never existed. A game's history just happens according to what's better for the gameplay. and might reference other games so you can point your finger.

It couldn't be done exactly like it is on Switch 2, but I just don't see anything so special it needs Switch 2 hardware. Worst case scenario it'd be a Pokemon Violet shit show but I'd bet it could definitely work.

If it could have worked for the NS1 it would have been released for it. Nintendo could just have chosen to not release some crossgen games and call them NS2 exclusives if they really wanted to add unnecessary exclusives.
Who wants a Pokemon Violet/scarlet quality game??(Loyal pokemon fans of course)

I take it you're counting Switch 1 game updates and cross-gen releases to fluff that statement? Because afaik we know of just some boring shit like a Kirby racing spinoff. Not exactly "full slate" material...

Hyrule warriors, DragDrive, maybe Splatoon raider, but didn't find a date for that one. some updates contain exclusive content too.

No, it isn't, not unless you count Drag x Drive. And that'd still be shitty anyway because launch alone should have at least have 2 new 1st party games, minimum.

You are deciding to ignore a game and then say there are no games.
There's already MKW and DKB. For BIG release titles.

Genuinely interesting. Is there a development history blog somewhere or something? Sounds interesting. It's just that if they were able to get ToTK to run relatively well, a game many (including Digital Foundry) speculated was probably shown running on Switch 2 hardware initially, then how the hell can toning everything down not result in DKB being playable?

The only way to square this away seems to be that the team had higher standards for a released product than Game Freak does. It was probably playable but that wasn't sufficient for them.

www.nintendo.com/us/whatsnew/ask-the-developer-vol-19-donkey-kong-bananza-part-2/
The developers of the main Mario games have a higher standard of quality than Pokemon team, shouldn't surprise anyone.


The cartoony designs fit better for platformer games with a lot of movement that's why they use them. Also more edgy aesthetic is not that popular anymore in media, look at the most recent Superman and fantastic 4 movies and compare them with their previous versions.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Hard disagree. I love TF but the game is a cakewalk until the final world, and being able to bring Dixie trivializes the temple levels. Both returns and TF are way harder than the average modern nintendo game, but neither really compare much to the snes games. The 2-2 minecart level in the first game shits over 95% of the levels in returns and TF just in terms of difficulty.

The SNES games are hard but their overall difficulty is lower than TF. The minecart in DKC1 is very hard, but the rocket levels in TF are untested, they're purely unfair. You can't control descent well enough to avoid obstacles so it becomes sheer memorization and battle of attrition.

 

[moocow]

Red Faction provided destructible buildings and terrain way back in 2001. Even the leaked Duke Nukem Forever prototype had it. And of course Minecraft has been around since 2009 offering destructible voxel terrain. The Switch 2's hardware and specs are substantially better than the PCs of those days, yet those ancient machines could still do all that anyway.

Nintendo has no secret sauce here. It's very cool, but not unique or new.

 

[BullfrogBill]

Red Faction provided destructible buildings and terrain way back in 2001. Even the leaked Duke Nukem Forever prototype had it. And of course Minecraft has been around since 2009 offering destructible voxel terrain. The Switch 2's hardware and specs are substantially better than the PCs of those days, yet those ancient machines could still do all that anyway.

Nintendo has no secret sauce here. It's very cool, but not unique or new.

I'd like to argue that games don't have to be groundbreaking or re-invent the wheel, they just need to be fun first and foremost. But with the fucking mammoth prices Nintendo has implemented I can't argue that, this shit's priced like it's the newest freshest cutting edge technology when it isn't. The only thing "cutting edge" about the Switch 2 are the Orwellian way the device is constantly monitoring you and what you are doing with the hardware just waiting for any excuse to lock down your console or forcibly fuck with your settings against your will lol

 

[Harambe]

You say this, but literally only Tropical Freeze on Wii U didn't do well. Every other Country title, including Tropical Freeze on Switch has done well, usually very well. DK is one of Nintendo's highest grossing IPs because of the 2D games, Tropical Freeze was just released at a bad time on a console where nearly every title can be considered a bomb given how little units they sold.

Tropical Freeze on Switch sold like 4.6 million by 2023 based on a cursory search, about doubling its launch window, which even including the Wii U sales is just about on a par with with DKCR did on Wii. DKCR did this with a much lower budget, and the Wii was a platform with less activated and hardcore users (and it was even easier to pirate shit on the Wii). It's not a disaster, but it's definitely bad. It took two releases across a decade of continued sales to match DKCR's first release. Sadly it's not a great outlook for games in that style for that franchise. The budget for the sequel sure as shit wouldn't be going up. It's a grim prospect to make a third when you can't be sure people will show up. It makes obvious business sense to rethink DK, expand the brand and conceptually change what it means and what you do in the game to avoid a more precipitous sales collapse.

It couldn't be done exactly like it is on Switch 2, but I just don't see anything so special it needs Switch 2 hardware. Worst case scenario it'd be a Pokemon Violet shit show but I'd bet it could definitely work.

I think they'd rather kill themselves than work like GameFreak works. I know I would.

And if it was cross-gen you'd be sour about that too and calling the massive hardware and QOL upgrades pointless. Exclusives drive hardware sales, and it's retarded to publish a shit tier version of the game that wasn't promised for the platform. The graphics are visibly and markedly better than anything the Switch ever pushed, and way better than anything the 360 could push. EPD8 at Nintendo are clearly some of the most talented programmers in Japan and have always been exceptionally good at optimizing their shit.

And at least there's no actual drought. It's not the Gamecube days of actual no games for months. Nintendo has been publishing at a pretty steady cadence for the past decade, basically one thing to play a month featuring their IP or coming from partners and about 2-3 'big games' a year. It's been a decade of this, not much has changed. Switch 1, great launch, one game a month. Started with just Zelda and whatever you want to call 1-2 Switch. Third parties didn't even show up. But it kept going, steady releases, give someone something to buy each paycheck. Same basic plan. Sold like the PS2. Even without the covid bump they'd be reaching toward 150 million now.

They will not cannibalize their own first-week sales for games they publish, even a little, especially when their strategy has been such a steady and consistent winner. They have trained their market to think "Nintendo puts out a game every month," and I'd rather have that as a consoooooomer than "Nintendo frontloaded the launch and I ran out of shit to play after the first month." And if you were a Nintendo-only gamer (I guess some people must be?) the launch was cool, you got SF6, Mario Kart, and Cyberpunk, which you sure as shit couldn't play on the Switch 1. It was way better as a launch than the Switch 1 with fucking Street Fighter 2, cross gen Zelda, cow milking game, and Bomberman R. Right now it's a pretty good time to have this dinky little gaming tablet.

 

[Dammit Mandrake!]

only Tropical Freeze on Wii U didn't do well

Proof that DK fans are the niggers of franchise fanboys.

 

[LightDragonman1]

Spoilers for Bananza, but man did they make the villain one of the most evil in the entire franchise.

Spoiler: Meme Summary