Megathread Non-binary genders / Enbies - When Male and Female Aren't Special Enough

[LtCucumber]

this guy I know decided he's non-binary and wants everyone to call him by they/them pronouns and like...you're a stereotypical nerdy guy who has long hair he doesn't maintain (I keep telling him he should venture into styles other than the low ponytail which is my way of hinting he should neatly comb it) and occasionally wears fishnet gloves and bought dresses at macy's once and, ALSO, ragged on effeminate gay dudes for being too fem so like...can you not

sorry I'm just mildly annoyed by this

Yeah there's a few guys i've met online who use "they/them" and then their reasoning is that they're slightly more femme than your garden variety dude and i've never heard anything more fucking sexist in my life...

I mean isn't that exact rhetoric enforcing that old shitstorm that is "toxic masculinity"- which to my understanding, from what i remember of it, is basically "society says men have to be masculine all the time and that's a bit wrong maybe we should encourage men to be feminine if they so wish because it's not wrong for them to do so"

I think I just broke my brain. Time for a coffee.

 

[Dolphin Lundgren]

Yeah trans guys who actually try to pass usually can pass at least as a 12 year old boy. Testosterone also does significantly better as a hormone than estrogen BTW, so even then they will pass eventually if they seek hormone treatment. The problem is so many of the "trans men" nowadays are just attention seeking, enbie "soft boy uwu" types, and the people in the trans community who actually care about passing resent this.

I have another "trans guy" like this but it's a short one so I won't put it under a spoiler. This "guy" has long dyed red hair, always has his tits out in every picture, "crossdresses" (AKA, wears women's clothes as a woman), and is dating a dude. Calls his boyfriend "daddy" and always posts weird kink shit on Facebook... Also somehow managed to get on testosterone even though he is not yet 18.

Why do these people think they're doing anything to help the trans community by "breaking gender stereotypes"? All they're doing is making themselves look batshit insane. People barely respect passing trans people as it is, the enbie shit just makes it even worse for the people who actually struggle and try to live normal lives. It's so ironic how they're trying to be so progressive but they're undoing years worth of progress just by proving every stereotype we already think about trans people to be true.

Oh wow. I should point out that the person I know is in his late 30's and doesn't hang out with people like the person you mentioned. I think that's something that really matters when it comes to ftm.

 

[MaoBigDong]

Oh wow. I should point out that the person I know is in his late 30's and doesn't hang out with people like the person you mentioned. I think that's something that really matters when it comes to ftm.

Yeah, I think age and maturity level really does have something to do with the surprising amount of enbies/ftms that are like this. Most of the ftm people I know of are fairly young (teens/early 20s) and have no idea what they're doing to their bodies. Nevermind the fact that they're just confused in general about something as simple as gender identity.

 

[Crunchy Leaf]

Yeah trans guys who actually try to pass usually can pass at least as a 12 year old boy. Testosterone also does significantly better as a hormone than estrogen BTW, so even then they will pass eventually if they seek hormone treatment. The problem is so many of the "trans men" nowadays are just attention seeking, enbie "soft boy uwu" types, and the people in the trans community who actually care about passing resent this.

I have another "trans guy" like this but it's a short one so I won't put it under a spoiler. This "guy" has long dyed red hair, always has his tits out in every picture, "crossdresses" (AKA, wears women's clothes as a woman), and is dating a dude. Calls his boyfriend "daddy" and always posts weird kink shit on Facebook... Also somehow managed to get on testosterone even though he is not yet 18.

Why do these people think they're doing anything to help the trans community by "breaking gender stereotypes"? All they're doing is making themselves look batshit insane. People barely respect passing trans people as it is, the enbie shit just makes it even worse for the people who actually struggle and try to live normal lives. It's so ironic how they're trying to be so progressive but they're undoing years worth of progress just by proving every stereotype we already think about trans people to be true.

I don't understand why someone who is seemingly comfortable with their female body and appearing feminine would want to be on T. Also, if he's under 18, where are the parents?

fftopic:

Spoiler

This might be a dumb question, but I've always found it hard to understand what the point of being attracted to women is, if it would mainly/exclusively be to ones that are intensely masculine to the point of being indistinguishable from an ftm.

I mean, what's the point?

hey they still got a woman's body underneath the flannelette, y'know?

 

[Valstrax]

I don't understand why someone who is seemingly comfortable with their female body and appearing feminine would want to be on T. Also, if he's under 18, where are the parents?



hey they still got a woman's body underneath the flannelette, y'know?

Back in my day, 'they/them' was to describe multiple people and not some made up gender.

 

[Skullshatterer]

The more you stay on tumblr the less sense it makes. Someone I know said "spacegender is a nonbinary spectrum, theyre still nb just prefer a nicer name" and im like.. ok. i dont wanna make a scene so ended the conversation there, but seriously?

I remember another use where I asked whats the point of someone transitioning (doing sex change surgery) if they are still going to call themselves nonbinary? isnt the point of transiotining to look like the opposite sex? and all they told me was "you dont have to understand just respect" but.. it doesnt make any sense.

 

[SunKnight]

The people who are very obviously feminine or masculine in appearance but call themselves "enbies" are the same type of people who screech at normal, passing trans men, or "truscum" while kissing the asses of the uwuw pastel soft transboi who identifies as tucute.

Like, whatever the hell happened to just dressing androgynously and not acting like you're an oppressed kweer ghey for it or that it's so special? Same with asexuals. You're not special for not wanting to fuck people.

 

[howyadoin]

I remember another use where I asked whats the point of someone transitioning (doing sex change surgery) if they are still going to call themselves nonbinary? isnt the point of transiotining to look like the opposite sex? and all they told me was "you dont have to understand just respect" but.. it doesnt make any sense.

If non-binary people want to go through surgery, it's usually to make them look like an intersex person or even a hermaphrodite.

Does that really alleviate their dysphoria, though? That's even if they actually have it in the first place.

 

[NoFeline]

There's a reason you don't see trans guys who pass.

Spoiler

It's because they pass.

It's called stealth. Because most trans men aren't attention seeking brats like today's softbois and enbies the topic of their genitalia only ever comes up as a jsyk before they're about to hop in the sack. They don't like broadcasting that shit.

 

[Diana Moon Glampers]

and all they told me was "you dont have to understand just respect" but.. it doesnt make any sense.

This is some kind of entitlement complex. Every human being is entitled to basic human dignity. But nowhere even in the bounds of politeness and kindness is it required that you respect every idea that popped into someone's head, just by dint of it occurring to them.

No one says "you don't have to understand it, just respect it" about Scientology.

It used to be the Christian right that did a lot of "you don't have to understand it, just respect it" about the Bible. Somewhere, there's been a flip in ideology, because now it's the left saying "you don't have to understand, just respect it."

Even when the side saying it is totally correct about an idea, it's the kind of posturing that turns off anyone who's not already converted. If you tell people that they must buy into vaccines and global warming, and that understanding isn't required, just repetition of the tenets about those things, a lot of them will just reflexively say "fuck you for telling me what to believe, I'll believe what I want!"

It's just not the way people argue when they're bona fide winning an argument, which is why it reeks of bullshit and makes people instantly want to promote the opposite opinion:

"The sky is BLUE, motherfuckers, SUCK MY DICK IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME. There is no fucking room for debate in this. You either RESPECT the sky, or you fucking don't. Die mad about it & unfollow if you disagree."

 

[TokiBun]

I respect the pronouns of the nonbinary people I know IRL. But I roll my eyes. They're all just women who want to feel special. They all keep dressing feminine too so what's the point?

 

[Skullshatterer]

This is some kind of entitlement complex. Every human being is entitled to basic human dignity. But nowhere even in the bounds of politeness and kindness is it required that you respect every idea that popped into someone's head, just by dint of it occurring to them.

No one says "you don't have to understand it, just respect it" about Scientology.

It used to be the Christian right that did a lot of "you don't have to understand it, just respect it" about the Bible. Somewhere, there's been a flip in ideology, because now it's the left saying "you don't have to understand, just respect it."

Even when the side saying it is totally correct about an idea, it's the kind of posturing that turns off anyone who's not already converted. If you tell people that they must buy into vaccines and global warming, and that understanding isn't required, just repetition of the tenets about those things, a lot of them will just reflexively say "fuck you for telling me what to believe, I'll believe what I want!"

It's just not the way people argue when they're bona fide winning an argument, which is why it reeks of bullshit and makes people instantly want to promote the opposite opinion:

"The sky is BLUE, motherfuckers, SUCK MY DICK IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME. There is no fucking room for debate in this. You either RESPECT the sky, or you fucking don't. Die mad about it & unfollow if you disagree."

I wonder if that is the reason many people are turning right wing (even outside the US)

 

[Trombonista]

No one says "you don't have to understand it, just respect it" about Scientology.

Scientologists do.

 

[Safir]

I respect the pronouns of the nonbinary people I know IRL. But I roll my eyes. They're all just women who want to feel special. They all keep dressing feminine too so what's the point?

There was a brief moment when women used gender-neutral pronouns to normalize not bringing up a person's sex altogether (as an optional thing, in the vein of the Ms. honorific for women), an idea championed, among other people, by Douglas Hofstadter:
https://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/purity.html

Spoiler: Choice quotes

Another of Niss Moses' shrill objections is to the age-old differentiation of whites from blacks by the third-person pronouns "whe" and "ble." Ble promotes an absurd notion: that what we really need in English is a single pronoun covering both races. Numerous suggestions have been made, such as "pe," "tey," and others, These are all repugnant to the nature of the English language, as the average white in the street will testify, even if whe has no linguistic training whatsoever. Then there are advocates of usages such as "whe or ble," "whis or bler," and so forth. This makes for monstrosities such as the sentence "When the next President takes office, whe or ble will have to choose whis or bler cabinet with great care, for whe or ble would not want to offend any minorities." Contrast this with the spare elegance of the normal way of putting it, and there is no question which way we ought to speak. There are, of course, some yapping black libbers who advocate writing "bl/whe" everywhere, which, aside from looking terrible, has no reasonable pronunciation. Shall we say "blooey" all the time when we simply mean "whe"? Who wants to sound like a white with a chronic sneeze?
...
"Personhandling" the language is a habit that not only Niss Moses but quite a few others have taken up recently. For instance, Nrs. Delilah Buford has urged that we drop the useful distinction between "Niss" and "Nrs." (which, as everybody knows, is pronounced "Nissiz," the reason for which nobody knows!). Bler argument is that there is no need for the public to know whether a black is employed or not. Need is, of course, not the point. Ble conveniently sidesteps the fact that there is a tradition in our society of calling unemployed blacks "Niss" and employed blacks "Nrs." Most blacks - in fact, the vast majority - prefer it that way. They want the world to know what their employment status is, and for good reason. Unemployed blacks want prospective employers to know they are available, without having to ask embarrassing questions. Likewise, employed blacks are proud of having found a job, and wish to let the world know they are employed. This distinction provides a sense of security to all involved, in that everyone knows where ble fits into the scheme of things.

Of course enbies then had to ruin a good and mostly sane thing.

 

[neverendingmidi]

There was a brief moment when women used gender-neutral pronouns to normalize not bringing up a person's sex altogether (as an optional thing, in the vein of the Ms. honorific for women), an idea championed, among other people, by Douglas Hofstadter:
https://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/purity.html

Spoiler: Choice quotes

Another of Niss Moses' shrill objections is to the age-old differentiation of whites from blacks by the third-person pronouns "whe" and "ble." Ble promotes an absurd notion: that what we really need in English is a single pronoun covering both races. Numerous suggestions have been made, such as "pe," "tey," and others, These are all repugnant to the nature of the English language, as the average white in the street will testify, even if whe has no linguistic training whatsoever. Then there are advocates of usages such as "whe or ble," "whis or bler," and so forth. This makes for monstrosities such as the sentence "When the next President takes office, whe or ble will have to choose whis or bler cabinet with great care, for whe or ble would not want to offend any minorities." Contrast this with the spare elegance of the normal way of putting it, and there is no question which way we ought to speak. There are, of course, some yapping black libbers who advocate writing "bl/whe" everywhere, which, aside from looking terrible, has no reasonable pronunciation. Shall we say "blooey" all the time when we simply mean "whe"? Who wants to sound like a white with a chronic sneeze?
...
"Personhandling" the language is a habit that not only Niss Moses but quite a few others have taken up recently. For instance, Nrs. Delilah Buford has urged that we drop the useful distinction between "Niss" and "Nrs." (which, as everybody knows, is pronounced "Nissiz," the reason for which nobody knows!). Bler argument is that there is no need for the public to know whether a black is employed or not. Need is, of course, not the point. Ble conveniently sidesteps the fact that there is a tradition in our society of calling unemployed blacks "Niss" and employed blacks "Nrs." Most blacks - in fact, the vast majority - prefer it that way. They want the world to know what their employment status is, and for good reason. Unemployed blacks want prospective employers to know they are available, without having to ask embarrassing questions. Likewise, employed blacks are proud of having found a job, and wish to let the world know they are employed. This distinction provides a sense of security to all involved, in that everyone knows where ble fits into the scheme of things.

Of course enbies then had to ruin a good and mostly sane thing.

What the fuck was that :autism: that I read under your spoiler? I'm trying to understand if it was a Stormfront level parody, or a fantasy writing, or just stupidity.

 

[kitty shit]

Rating myself :late: here (I'm on page 22 ok), but when the fuck are these people going to realize their stupidity? Because many of them are in fact adults - as in, they're no longer teens, they're in their twenties, some in their thirties even.

The funniest thing about it all, I think, is that they so desperately want to make "being non-binary" into some feminist statement. Like, if you're really trying to achieve equality or whatever, inventing three billion different genders isn't really the way to go. It's counterproductive at best, you know, reenforcing this whole "men must be macho and strong and women have to oblige and be quiet" thing? Meh.

It was one thing when it was just tumblr, but now it's everywhere and it's fucked. Man, aren't people being taught basic biology in school these days? There are women, there are men, and then there's trans people as in trans men or trans women. That's it.

 

[Crunchy Leaf]

Rating myself :late: here (I'm on page 22 ok), but when the fuck are these people going to realize their stupidity? Because many of them are in fact adults - as in, they're no longer teens, they're in their twenties, some in their thirties even.

The funniest thing about it all, I think, is that they so desperately want to make "being non-binary" into some feminist statement. Like, if you're really trying to achieve equality or whatever, inventing three billion different genders isn't really the way to go. It's counterproductive at best, you know, reenforcing this whole "men must be macho and strong and women have to oblige and be quiet" thing? Meh.

It was one thing when it was just tumblr, but now it's everywhere and it's fucked. Man, aren't people being taught basic biology in school these days? There are women, there are men, and then there's trans people as in trans men or trans women. That's it.

when other people stop enabling them
which will only happen when people get sick of autogynephiles and then all other trans people by analogy

 

[UnsufficentBoobage]

doubt.jpg

 

[howyadoin]

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If nonbinary means "I'm born in one gender but I don't completely act like the gender nor completely associate with the stereotyped gender group" then everyone would be nonbinary.

EDIT: adding more clarification

 

[scathefire]

doubt.jpg
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“do u ever wonder how many people would support our ideology if they were actually educated on why we’re right and were encouraged to further our goals”