Megathread Non-binary genders / Enbies - When Male and Female Aren't Special Enough

They/Them "non-binary" (woman) in the NASA intern. Her name is Victoria btw. :)
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"Nothing about my identity makes me any less capable of working in the government."
I've NEVER seen someone said that enbies can't work for the government.Why can't she just be proud of being a woman in the nasa ?
 
"Nothing about my identity makes me any less capable of working in the government."
I've NEVER seen someone said that enbies can't work for the government.Why can't she just be proud of being a woman in the nasa ?
Because being a woman with short hair is not enough. She wants to be special and "not like those other silly cis women UwU"
 
They/Them "non-binary" (woman) in the NASA intern. Her name is Victoria btw. :)
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"Nothing about my identity makes me any less capable of working in the government."
I've NEVER seen someone said that enbies can't work for the government.Why can't she just be proud of being a woman in the nasa ?

Because being a woman with short hair is not enough. She wants to be special and "not like those other silly cis women UwU"

I think that the nonbinary woman thing is kind of stupid but the "Nothing about my identity makes me any less capable of working in the government." is referring to the justification for the transgender military ban, not something she pulled out randomly.
 
They/Them "non-binary" (woman) in the NASA intern. Her name is Victoria btw. :)
View attachment 646840

"Nothing about my identity makes me any less capable of working in the government."
I've NEVER seen someone said that enbies can't work for the government.Why can't she just be proud of being a woman in the nasa ?
She cute and can launch my shuttle any day, but at the end of the day she is a she and no lack of makeup or amount of pixie cut will change that. She is right about identity not meaning shit when it comes to doing a job because what matters is that the job is done and done right, so why be hung up on it at all?
 
Isn't part of the issue with transgender people that the majority of them are on hormones, and the military has very strong rules about people who are on medication serving? Wouldn't be an issue for her.

I think that would have been an acceptable justification and it was something addressed in the memo that had previously stayed the ban. Previously, transgender service members could serve using their preferred names and gender pronouns but would still be required to wear uniforms that matched their anatomical sex, undergo pregnancy tests when applicable, and if they had undergone surgery of any kind they had to wait 18 months before they could enlist. I think the big issue was the Don't Ask Don't Tell approach that was rooting out LGBT people that ironically were trying not to make a big deal out of it, unlike their Tumblr brethren.
 
I want to know who started this whole stupid thing, I mean really, what do you get out of "I use they/xie/hir" pronouns vs. someone referring to you as a man or a woman? How is just gender a "Social construct," but some say sex is not? I really want to know the reasoning behind all of this, I have never encountered anyone that can explain this stuff. (I'm sure it's because there's no explanation other than attention and :autism: though.)

As someone who's encountered that side of academia before. "Gender as a social construct" is a widely misused term by people. If they actually read into the sources and academics who started claiming this, what they meant has nothing to do with non-binary stuff. Basically what they claimed is that things in social spheres got attached as "male" or "female". A really good example of this is pink is for girls and blue is for boys. Thats just not true, guys can like and wear pink and girls can like and wear blue. This was a thing made up around the 30s or 40s because gender is a social construct. It was then used for marketing purposes. Liking sports is for boys, liking dancing is for girls. Just that kind of stuff really. Thats what they meant by "gender is a social construct" That its basically used in social purposes to say "You cant do that, thats for boys."

But a lot of those social construct barriers have been torn down at this point. You'll see female sports fans and male dancers and guys wearing pink shirts and so on. An older social construct used to be that in orchestras, violins were seen as an instrument for girls and something such as the trumpet was seen as an instrument for boys. Now nobody gives a fuck as long as they can play well. But these social constructs were especially super rigid from like 1800 - 1940 and they switched around a lot. Going to the bank and depositing or withdrawing money used to be seen as a feminine act. It used to be the role of the mother to look after the money as it was seen as a motherly thing, then it ended up switching in the early 20th century to men taking the role of looking after money. Or for example coding, it was seem as a feminine act and a job for girls in the 1930s - 1950s and then became to be seen as a masculine act and a job for guys from around 1960s onwards. I could go on and on with examples really. Long and short hair and how thats changed multiple times throughout the centuries as to whether its masculine or feminine.

But yeah speaking of the 1930s and 1940s, a lot of these social constructs ended up collapsing around then during WW2 when women had to take on more of a role in the work force due to the men going for war. Again, before then it was seen as pretty rigid. It'd be crazy for a guy to be seen caring about shopping or something as that was for girls.

And thats my little lesson on what "Gender is a social construct" means. Its basically "Hey are you a guy and you wanna wear your pink shirt and you like to use hair products but you're scared to be seen as feminine or gay? Don't worry, its all a social construct so just do what you please." and has now been bastardised a ton by enbies to basically. "Hey are you a guy and you wanna wear your pink shirt and you like to use hair products but you don't see yourself as a woman or gay? Congrats, you're non-binary!" Rather than just a dude who likes stuff thats associated with being feminine. Funnily enough by doing what they're doing, they're going against what the original arguments that these academics were making by reinforcing things as male and female. Because what enbies will often do, is they'll realise that they like to do both "masculine" and "feminine" things and wear "masuline" and "feminine" things so they must be neither male or female! But it's attaching the idea of masculine and feminine to these items. Thus reinforcing the social construct.

Its all bastardised and fucked basically.
 
I suppose it also wasn’t the original intention for “gender” to apply not only to clothes/jobs/activities, but also to gendered behaviors such as being a stay-at-home mother. For example I really don’t see how a stay-at-home father makes much sense (at least not with infants) because they need to regularly do things like breastfeed. Plus, mothers are wired to take acute notice of their children’s needs.

It’s a little depressing for me to think about actually, most people seem to lose their true independence once children start to exist. It’s not as if your child is special or remarkable in literally any way, but if you don’t genuinely believe that’s true then it might die of neglect.
 
I suppose it also wasn’t the original intention for “gender” to apply not only to clothes/jobs/activities, but also to gendered behaviors such as being a stay-at-home mother. For example I really don’t see how a stay-at-home father makes much sense (at least not with infants) because they need to regularly do things like breastfeed. Plus, mothers are wired to take acute notice of their children’s needs.

It’s a little depressing for me to think about actually, most people seem to lose their true independence once children start to exist. It’s not as if your child is special or remarkable in literally any way, but if you don’t genuinely believe that’s true then it might die of neglect.
A lot of stay at home dads stay at home because their wife makes significantly more money than they do, and they live somewhere that daycare is really expensive so it's cheaper if someone stays home, especially if they have multiple kids under 5. I don't think it's really that weird--the mother can pump breastmilk while at work if they need it (or use formula). And considering how many mothers we hear about leaving their kids in a hot car/letting their boyfriends molest em/nodding off from heroin while watching their kids, I don't think mothers are really more inherently equipped to watch a baby.
 
A lot of stay at home dads stay at home because their wife makes significantly more money than they do, and they live somewhere that daycare is really expensive so it's cheaper if someone stays home, especially if they have multiple kids under 5. I don't think it's really that weird--the mother can pump breastmilk while at work if they need it (or use formula). And considering how many mothers we hear about leaving their kids in a hot car/letting their boyfriends molest em/nodding off from heroin while watching their kids, I don't think mothers are really more inherently equipped to watch a baby.

Also stay at home jobs are a big thing now. Or just a job where the majority of it is working from home.
 
Seeing this thread has given me a lot of insight on what it means to be non-binary. It's basically just internalized misogyny/misandry because you don't fit in with your sex's stereotype. There's a LOT more to it than that though.

It's interesting that most enbies are female. They don't actually want to be a man, but also don't want those socially constructed gender expectations of being a female shoved onto them either. I constantly hear about toxic masculinity, but what about toxic femininity? Pressured to look beautiful and sexy, to be dainty and cute, or to give birth and raise children. What if it's just toxic femininity that's making all these women resent being women? Girls are constantly worried what people think about them, this is why they flock to beauty magazines, starve themselves, and spend tons of money on make-up, hair and clothes, in order for society to accept them. When you give zero shits about this or don't meet these standards, but still feel pressured, it seems easier to just reject being "female" altogether and be something else. The opposite of this would be instead to fight it and support your sex, which is how the feminism movement started. I've met several females that use she/they pronouns who resent being female because they resent traditional female roles or hate their body because it's sexualized, and I have personally felt this way myself. Fortunately this thread has slapped some sense into me before I made the foolish mistake of going down the enby road and possibly butchering my body. I think we need to give tomboys more love and respect, because it's okay if you don't fit into the female stereotype, because there's lots of different kinds of women.
 
Here's a "we don't need no dysphoria" post. Put here as it mainly seems to be the enby and trans boi (teenage girls) types making these arguments.

I only today found out that there's a countermovement to "transmed" (i.e. "you need dysphoria to be trans"). For maximum clarity, they are calling themselves "transmedics". Here's a "transmedics posititivity" blog.
"A transgender person that believes you don’t need dysphoria to be trans, (which is backed up by the APA and multiple other medical sources, hence the term transmedic)"

But disaster! Some transmeds have appropriated the transmedic flag! Maybe they were just confused, and assumed that those two words meant the same thing.

Luckily, our transmedic warriors are reclaiming the transmed flag. Apparently there's a slapfight going on, but I can't read the responses of the people (transmeds?) arguing with this blog because the blogrunners seem to have blocked everyone.

"there's as much evidence out there to prove you need dysphoria to be trans as there is to prove vaccines cause autism"
 
I agree entirely with the theory that NB identity and most members being female is due to girls/women finding comfort in escapism when they realize they aren't pretty, effeminate, etc. On one hand I think it's sad that they carry so much internal misogyny, believing they can't be women as they are, but I am more angry that they don't use logic to realize otherwise.
 
Seeing this thread has given me a lot of insight on what it means to be non-binary. It's basically just internalized misogyny/misandry because you don't fit in with your sex's stereotype. There's a LOT more to it than that though.

It's interesting that most enbies are female. They don't actually want to be a man, but also don't want those socially constructed gender expectations of being a female shoved onto them either. I constantly hear about toxic masculinity, but what about toxic femininity? Pressured to look beautiful and sexy, to be dainty and cute, or to give birth and raise children. What if it's just toxic femininity that's making all these women resent being women? Girls are constantly worried what people think about them, this is why they flock to beauty magazines, starve themselves, and spend tons of money on make-up, hair and clothes, in order for society to accept them. When you give zero shits about this or don't meet these standards, but still feel pressured, it seems easier to just reject being "female" altogether and be something else. The opposite of this would be instead to fight it and support your sex, which is how the feminism movement started. I've met several females that use she/they pronouns who resent being female because they resent traditional female roles or hate their body because it's sexualized, and I have personally felt this way myself. Fortunately this thread has slapped some sense into me before I made the foolish mistake of going down the enby road and possibly butchering my body. I think we need to give tomboys more love and respect, because it's okay if you don't fit into the female stereotype, because there's lots of different kinds of women.
Interesting thesis, though I think it's contradicted by the staggering number of enbies who do end up putting up a dainty/cute persona, spending tons of time and money on their appearance via make-up, clothes and Instagram filters, and other things typically associated with being feminine. I'm sure hating typically girly things is part of it, but I think for the most part the main motive is the rejection of coming off as. for lack of a better phrase, a Basic Bitch.

A common thread with a lot of Tumblr enbies is that they tend to put a lot of emphasis on how unique~ their identity makes them, even more compared to things like interests . Which makes sense: how can else your multi-colored, anime loving ass ever feel special when your interests are practically mainstream and you look like every other wannabe non-conformist rebel on the interwebs? You slap on a ton of labels on yourself until you have most and complain about how you're just so special that no one can hope to understand how unique you are.

They're basically this generation's emo/scene kids.
 
Interesting thesis, though I think it's contradicted by the staggering number of enbies who do end up putting up a dainty/cute persona, spending tons of time and money on their appearance via make-up, clothes and Instagram filters, and other things typically associated with being feminine. I'm sure hating typically girly things is part of it, but I think for the most part the main motive is the rejection of coming off as. for lack of a better phrase, a Basic Bitch.

A common thread with a lot of Tumblr enbies is that they tend to put a lot of emphasis on how unique~ their identity makes them, even more compared to things like interests . Which makes sense: how can else your multi-colored, anime loving ass ever feel special when your interests are practically mainstream and you look like every other wannabe non-conformist rebel on the interwebs? You slap on a ton of labels on yourself until you have most and complain about how you're just so special that no one can hope to understand how unique you are.

They're basically this generation's emo/scene kids.

Oh definitely there's the special snowflake syndrome going on for the majority of them, but I chalk that up as to awkward edgy teenager/young adult phase. It's a way for them to be more popular by rejecting the norm, you are absolutely right. The ones that go through HRT or top surgery though hate being seen as a girl.
 
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