Null's Gambit - My attempt at getting Chris to talk openly

[Mason Verger]

Aren't there meds that can help with this? I know we like to say that Chris is just autistic, not psychotic, but this shits a fair bit away from memorizing license plates in a parking lot.

 

[Zebedee]

Aren't there meds that can help with this? I know we like to say that Chris is just autistic, not psychotic, but this shits a fair bit away from memorizing license plates in a parking lot.

Honestly the best thing for him is cognitive therapy and perhaps a full month long assessment (section 2 in the UK, don't know the equivalent in the US), as far as I am aware he has never had that properly done. Following this a release order into the community with some level of home treatment. The way I see it, all that has been conducted thus far was half arsed at best.

*If he is seen by services, then low doses of respiridone tend to help people with learning disabilities, despite it being an antipsychotic. With any luck he could be prescribed that.*

Though the problem would then be finding someone to take care of Barb for those 28 days...

 

[God Emperor Rich Evans]

Null is of course right. If Chris discloses his full beliefs in different realities to a professional, then it's his greatest chance for help.


But he won't. Not because he's scared of being proved wrong, but because Chris always follows the path of least resistance.

My guess is he does the mental equivalent of boulder mode from TMG. He really wants to believe in this alternate reality shit.

I get the feeling that The Captain and Null are able to help Chris because they are willing to toe the line and play into Chris's comforting fantasy world immersion just enough to get through to him. Chris was already disconnected from reality of course, Boyd and Wise just made it worse.
A professional needs to see and understand how far this rabbit hole goes. Obtaining true and honest disclosure shouldn't be that hard. Once Chris opens up and thinks you're in on his worldsview, he'll tell you more than you ever wanted to know about it. (Re: everything he's ever said and done.) Too bad the therapist couldn't be alerted ahead of time, because this is an intense amount of weird about to be dropped on him/her

 

[Yellow Yam Scam]

People think you’re not qualified to tell someone their extortionists don’t have a giant moon laser? That doesn’t exactly require a degree.

That's what I thought too until I refused to give Joshua Wise a Steam gift card and he annihilated Yamtown with his orbital cannon.

 

[MrTroll]

I'll take that one step further. All of Chris's use of the internet should be supervised. He's proven time and time again that he shouldn't be allowed to freely participate on the internet. I know that would take away all of our fun here, but the woodchopping should have been done a long time ago.

Probably most of what Chris does on the internet, even on public social media, is harmless. There's a huge difference between tweeting pics from BronyCon and having 10-hour roleplaying sessions with degenerate anime nerds on Discord. "Private interactions with untrusted people will inevitably lead to you being manipulated or harmed" is a concept simple enough that even Chris could understand.

 

[Nurse Ratchet]

Captain Jack Sparrow? lol

Jack Z?

Who knows.

I'm sorry, my dude. Mb. I don't know what I was thinking, applying any facet of non-subterranean logic to anything Chris says or does.

This officially means I understood a sum total of zero out of his wall of text. So at least I can feel good about that.

 

[neger psykolog]

I'd suggest asking CWC for the email of his therapist/helper and writing a long email documenting the concerns that have arisen from his internet life and now put his entire life/house at risk.

If not that, then writing a courteous email and asking CWC to print it and bring it with him.

There's no point in relying on CWC's story-telling abilities. Whoever is a professional and has the capability to help him properly should know as much of the story as possible.

"The story" doesn't even need specifies, all that really needs to be said is CWC is at risk of being extorted by people and this poses a danger to his personal safety. First its people extorting thousands of dollars from him and all it takes is someone pushing him to do something criminal or harming himself or another person. Especially since he loves going to conventions and is so well known at this point (plenty of people knew who he was from the TMG con).

I also don't see any harm in people trying to help CWC. Autists are going to shit on everything, but from what I have seen very few people have tried to help CWC or have been able to get through to him on any real level.

 

[The Captain]

Captain Jack was a true legend of Eurodance.

I think I just found my new avatar.

 

[Okkervils]

full month long assessment (section 2 in the UK, don't know the equivalent in the US), as far as I am aware he has never had that properly done.

Yeah, we don't have a name for that. We can only hold a patient for 2-3 days without a court order, with a court order you can hold for up to six months. Not many good middle-grounds... Our aftercare is terrible too although I have met some people with psych issues who have visiting nurses but it's usually just for meds.

I'd suggest asking CWC for the email of his therapist/helper and writing a long email documenting the concerns that have arisen from his internet life and now put his entire life/house at risk.

Due to the confidentiality crap the therapist wouldn't be able to respond or ask questions in response to these emails without permission from Chris. Even then, I worry they'd be disregarded due to the circumstances. The therapist could certainly still read them though, no stopping that. It's worth a shot.

 

[Bassomatic]

I look at it this way, you're trying to help that's noble, but I'm sure you've made the guess this may do nothing or indeed make it worse and you felt the gains and risks.

Personally, i'd say keep at arms lenght in regards to all of this, be it help, advice, or even an ear to yak with.

It's nice for the site to have a open direct link to Chris for a lot of reasons.

 

[bigshot]

Probably most of what Chris does on the internet, even on public social media, is harmless.

The question isn't how harmless Chris is to the internet, it's how harmless is the internet to Chris? It seems to me that he has done more to embarrass, hurt and debase himself on the internet than just about anyone.

I get the feeling that The Captain and Null are able to help Chris because they are willing to toe the line and play into Chris's comforting fantasy world immersion just enough to get through to him.

Do you think that Chris can be brought to reality by catering to his fantasies? I think that's just manipulation again. Chris needs someone in real life to help him, not someone on the internet.

 

[neger psykolog]

Due to the confidentiality crap the therapist wouldn't be able to respond or ask questions in response to these emails without permission from Chris. Even then, I worry they'd be disregarded due to the circumstances. The therapist could certainly still read them though, no stopping that. It's worth a shot.

I'm really not sure what the standards are for a situation like this but its a valid point. I have to imagine there is some allowance for a parent/caretaker to report to a therapist prior to an initial meeting with serious concerns.

I'd assume when its someone like CWC who can't function as a grown adult and is unlikely to ever be able to do so, the therapist would have to weigh the ethics involved. CWC getting help relies on whoever is helping him having a complete picture of CWC's history.

That is why "specific details" aren't important, what is important is the nature of CWC's vulnerabilities and the dangers to himself and others these vulnerabilities expose. In an ideal world, the therapist should be able to take this information about genuine concern for CWC without exposing/confirming/denying any information that CWC gives them.

There must be some role a caretaker is allowed to have when it comes to trying to help CWC or someone like CWC which wouldn't involve sitting in on sessions or being made aware of private information but being able to inform the therapist without crossing any ethical boundaries because there are surely people out there who have been in similar circumstances to CWC.

 

[Mason Verger]

The question isn't how harmless Chris is to the internet, it's how harmless is the internet to Chris? It seems to me that he has done more to embarrass, hurt and debase himself on the internet than just about anyone.

Exactly. We're all used to "haha he drank cum!" as the hight of debasement, but I'm going to take it on @The Captain authority that watching him punch himself in the face till he cries is the new low.

 

[Okkervils]

I'm really not sure what the standards are for a situation like this but its a valid point. I have to imagine there is some allowance for a parent/caretaker to report to a therapist prior to an initial meeting with serious concerns....

Yes, but that's typically limited to family or someone physically in their lives. Even then, it requires consent from the patient. They can be absolutely batshit and still retain those rights. Nothing stops the therapist from reading the emails but legally, any other communication is a violation they could lose their license for.

Even bringing the emails up, if the therapist decided to use them, would be difficult. They could likely think of new questions to ask Chris from them (ones not indicating they're getting knowledge from somewhere else) but including the messages in a report to the court or bringing up questions regarding the content in the emails directly is unlikely.

This would be easier if it was a caretaker, I don't think Null or anyone here would be considered that by a professional. Especially if you take into account he was extorted by individuals online. Even if Chris signs a form consenting contact, what, in an an outsiders eyes, makes us more trustworthy?

It's a really complicated situation and sadly, I think the therapist will only be able to get info from Chris and maybe Barb.

 

[Pony Horn]

Null's doing the right thing. Just hand it off to a shrink amd encourage Chris to tell him or her everything.

Null, if you so have to write a letter to the shrink I'd advise that you just write an introductory letter that just touches on the blackmailing, along with a list of proofs, and ask then to contact you. Anything more and Chris might not pass along the letter. Just like he might not pass along a sealed letter.

The confidentially laws won't really apply when you speak to them because you'll be the one doing the talking. They'll just be listening and asking questions.

I doubt they'll be giving you many wrangling tips because a major problem of Chris' condition is his weakness to being controlled by people. So asking them for tips would be like, "he needs to stop being manipulated. Now tell me how to manipulate him".

But that's what you want. Just give then the info and let them handle it. Good luck.

 

[bigshot]

Yes, but that's typically limited to family or someone physically in their lives.
I don't think Null or anyone here would be considered that by a professional.

Nothing can be done online to help Chris. Sure we can raise money to help him go to Bronycon. We can filter his email to get rid of the obvious stuff. But ultimately the problem isn't the internet, it's Chris's lifestyle and personal limitations. You can't fix that with an email. Chris needs someone on the ground where he lives to help him. The only thing we can do long distance is to keep our own pressure off him and encourage someone in Ruckersville to jump in to help. Personally, I think going after the trolls and manipulating his fantasies in a safe direction are both counter productive. Both those tactics just stir up more shit. I think the Chris forum should be put on hiatus to give him a break from the spotlight. Internet fame isn't good for Chris and the poop keeps getting touched. The forum is the central clearing house for that.

 

[Zebedee]

Yeah, we don't have a name for that. We can only hold a patient for 2-3 days without a court order, with a court order you can hold for up to six months. Not many good middle-grounds... Our aftercare is terrible too although I have met some people with psych issues who have visiting nurses but it's usually just for meds.



Due to the confidentiality crap the therapist wouldn't be able to respond or ask questions in response to these emails without permission from Chris. Even then, I worry they'd be disregarded due to the circumstances. The therapist could certainly still read them though, no stopping that. It's worth a shot.

This hurts me, in my soul... And not in a good way.

 

[DeathHeat]

If you believe in your cause, only then are you just.

 

[LazloChalos]

Therapists are not averse on receiving more information when treating someone, however it involves the patient signing a document allowing a third party to be involved in the process.

However, as far as I am aware, this document is mainly used to allow confidential information to be shared with said third party.

Null, and anyone else involved in the sordid details, creating and sending the therapist a package detailing the relevant information regarding Chris' situation, abuse and mental capacity may be viable and would certainly help the therapist get a head start and enable them to understand how to wrangle Chris and set up some basic and easy to understand rules for the sessions.

 

[Okkervils]

Nothing can be done online to help Chris. Sure we can raise money to help him go to Bronycon. We can filter his email to get rid of the obvious stuff. But ultimately the problem isn't the internet, it's Chris's lifestyle and personal limitations. You can't fix that with an email. Chris needs someone on the ground where he lives to help him. The only thing we can do long distance is to keep our own pressure off him and encourage someone in Ruckersville to jump in to help. Personally, I think going after the trolls and manipulating his fantasies in a safe direction are both counter productive. Both those tactics just stir up more shit. I think the Chris forum should be put on hiatus to give him a break from the spotlight. Internet fame isn't good for Chris and the poop keeps getting touched. The forum is the central clearing house for that.

You could argue that. But you could also argue Null & co could possibly be a deterrent from directly trolling Chris. You could also argue that because of this board the whole Wise ruse was discovered at all. We also have an archive of all that's happened, etc.

I'm not for bringing the board down personally. It's unlikely to change anything imo.