They're your family. There is obviously a bias there.
I wrote, " There are plenty of virgin men who are loved and appreciated as the men/people they are. Because they are loveable, good people."
You stated, "No, there aren't," and went on to say I don't know anyone like this.
I mentioned my relative as a counter, because he's fantastic, and I love him. And I'm not the only one. Goalposts are still standing, moving them is weak. Christ, admitting you're wrong on this point doesn't mean that everything you say is wrong or invalid. But you are wrong on this point.
You are not a representative of most the population.
No doubt. But also "most of the population" would not say, "oh, yes, virgins are horrible." And most of the population is at most vaguely aware of these "movements.". "Most" people don't think about any of this, though they do tend to react to stated positions.
They are exactly the same perspective in spirit. A group of individuals defining themselves by their sex and their grievances with the opposite sex with views varying from tame to extreme.
Can you provide some examples of "tame" perspectives from self'-identified capital-I Incels articulating what they think is an incel ideology?
And can you provide some evidence of hundreds or thousands of years of verifiable subjugation of virgin or hard-up men by women, during which time they were denied by the reigning female government of education, occupation, basic rights such as voting or having a bank account? I'm curious. And that's really rhetorical (unless you have those examples, of course). Again, not going to get into a "well, x is just as bad." These declared mra/incel philosophies can stand on their own, no?
You obviously judge incels/MRA by solely the extreme from the comment about wanting your annihilation
I never would have thought that was anything more than venting or hyperbole, until I spent some time in incel and mgtow spaces (years ago; if they've mellowed in the last, say, 5 or so, I'm happy to revise that perception, but I haven't seen that*.)
*what I did see on major incel boards was lot of ragging and dismissing of those who "ascended" [along with some encouragement, for sure; some of those guys were/are good-hearted], and of those who weren't totally black- or red pilled who decided to make an effort.
It's obviously relavent and why you don't want to address it.
No; I was merely trying to stay on-topic.
A defense of inceldom or mra/mgtowism without diverting to attacks on feminism would be more compelling.
Your claim that it's justified because you're righteously mocking their beliefs rests on there being no variance much less validity.
I don't know what you mean here.
Feminism having both or you believing it has both means your belief that the insult is justified is very much unfair.
Same. Can you rephrase?
Incel literally means "involuntary celibate." It's not anything about an attitude. You're just describing the usage of the word, which is meaningless since it's just an insult and your paragraph here is just stating that in many more words.
I'm familiar with the term and its origins*. As I mentioned, the technical definition is not what repels people; it's the adopted set of views. And if it's "just an insult," then why do people adopt it as an ideology/ worldview?
* originally created back in the 90s by a woman (as "invcel") to describe her
own situation. FYI.
Oh, please. MRA was a catch-all insult from feminists, angry that men would be fight for their own rights particularly in divorce court.
I think you are confused on history on this as well. "MRA" is a male-coined term and point of view. Though "men's rights" first appeared in the 19th century, and took a few different forms in the 60s and 70s, ultimately differentiating from the men's lib movement, the modern MRA movement grew in the 80s and 90s and launched full-force online in the 21st century. "MRA" was wholly and completely created and defined by men, not feminists. Lol, you might insult a lot of men by suggesting that their activitism was merely an insult, especially as one architected by women! No, the "movement" preceded the insult. And with mra/mgtow, like with incels, the critique/dislike adheres to the espoused views.
I grow weary of women trying to womansplain the male experience to us.
I was not and am not attempting to explain the male experience. In the comment of mine you quoted, I was (clearly and explicitly) stating why people dislike those views. That's not an explanation of "the male experience" in any way.
Here's an overview of the groups, if you're not familiar:
https://ojs.aaai.org/index.php/ICWSM/article/view/18053
literally just meant involuntary celibate
Yes (see above comment about its origin), and as I've said, that "status" is not what people react to. I agree with you that the term has been corrupted...primarily by those who adhere to a certain worldview that they themselves declare "incel." Normal people who are involuntarily celibate are not reviled. I absolutely agree that the term is used as an insult - sometimes wrongly/ unfairly/ pointlessly/ meanly - but 99% of the disdain and dislike is down to the self-described and self-adopted "Incel" (and mra/mgtow, for that matter) philosophy, not the good people who technically meet the original definition.
And prior to Elliot Rodgers, "incel" didn't necessarily mean
"Incels," as a self-identified group/"movement" were negative and nihilistic and hateful before Rodgers. Perhaps that predates you, but it doesn't predate me.
