- Joined
- Oct 6, 2016
Late Honest Hate from da No. 1 Ding Dong hater (yours truly):
undertale
since we're probably never doing an undertale review here's thoughts on it - undertale isn't terrible, but it's not exceptional.
regarding the game itself - its brief length harms any impact it is trying to have with its writing because characters you are supposed to be attached to don't really get developed outside of being a walking gimmick and catchphrase outside of two characters, one who we only see at the start, and one we only see at the end. the combat system is at least a good idea and moments where the game takes advantage of breaking the fourth wall can be interesting.
unfortunately for as fun as the combat system can be, a lot of fights essentially are just on a timeline and in the instance of some of the boss fights the game flat out is manipulating you to think what you are doing matters when ultimately there is no fail state, removing all tension or stakes put into that moment once the realization sets in. there's a handful of little clever moments with the writing here and there but a majority of the game's writing feels like jokes you'd see on a twitter timeline or done for the sake of being reblogged on a site like tumblr because a screenshot of a game with the choice of "ANIME IS REAL" is real ridiculous and random. spaghetti, bad puns, and anime are drilled so far into the ground that whatever endearing quality they were supposed to have for being bad jokes just turns into outright embarrassment wanting it to stop.
the question of morality isn't taken advantage of as much as it could be since ultimately you don't get the disconnect the game wants you to have acting as if these were real lives you were ending, and in cases how the game tries to rub in a kill get ridiculous considering the very first boss fight in the game more than likely was killed by 90% of players by accident. being called a filthy murderer for accidentally killing someone you weren't trying to kill but was fighting you trying to get you to kill them leads to eyerolls more than guilt, a situation where a player goes "what, that was bullshit" and having them start the game all over in anger after already sinking an hour into it. never does it make you question yourself at any point either because you are obliging it with its black and white structure rather than making choices for yourself. there's only three paths, genocide, neutral, and pacifist so you are just going to go one way or the other after learning that killing anyone will just throw you into the neutral route. for a game trying to spin game conventions on their heads i would have liked more variety in choices because just telling everyone it's a game where you don't have to hurt anyone means they won't knowing it gets the best ending if they explore outside of that. part of the reason people even get an impact seeing a character die is because they know it means their run is ruined for doing it, it's not necessarily because they didn't want to see the spaghetti joke man die.
the worst part of all of this with the morality system is that due to how the game was written, how brief it is, and how most characters don't really get fleshed out behind being a walking comedy gimmick is that the true ending for the pacifist run just feels really hamfisted. the fight just sort of comes out of the blue revealing something to us last moment and the writing is so schmaltzy it gets a little embarrassing (hopes and dreams!!! your friends are here for you!!!). the pacing in the game is already pretty awkward, the start and ends being played pretty serious and the middle just being pure goofs, so it makes this ending not really deliver the blow it probably wanted emotionally which is why the writing during it goes beyond 100% on the schmaltz factor. for such a brief game though it's obviously going to be hard to flesh these characters and this world out enough to make something like this have as much of a punch as they clearly wanted. the level of unpolish within the game makes me question if it did sort of get rushed to completion since it comes off that way at points. what's even sadder though is that ultimately the genocide route ends up being infinitely more interesting, we get to see sides of characters that would've helped flesh them out for that pacifist ending to give it more of that punch it wanted, and you also just get the best use of the combat system through it without any non-fail state slapped on top of it. the route of the game most people want to avoid ends up delivering the most interesting experience and handles itself the best in terms of tone.
alphys also is one of the most irredeemable and annoying characters i've witnessed in a game. it's good to give characters flaws but you should at least try to wedge something positive in there if you're supposed to be friends with them and want to defend them in some way.
the visuals here and there can actually look really nice but it's whenever an outside artist had offered a hand, most graphics in game being rough unpolished looking trash. the black and white look for battles at least masks this slightly but ultimately the game still looks like some weird fangame, i'd compare it to something like MUGEN where you are clashing a billion art styles together into a huge mess. a great example of this is comparing the rabbit shopkeeper or introduction art to cat who works at the burger place.
really what most likely pushed this game further ahead and gave some justification of popularity is its soundtrack which i cannot say anything bad about. most songs in the game are pretty memorable, sound good, and manage to salvage moments that the hideous visuals and shaky writing would have injured without it. easily one of the better soundtracks in a game in the past few years and is worth checking out.
for most people the references and lifted moments from other games wouldn't be as much of a concern since they're probably unfamiliar with most but i personally could not stop being irked from it, the final battles in the game very clearly taking from the end battles from mother games to the point that some lines are almost exactly copied from the giygas battle, the name "undertale" being a spin of "cave story" and the plot starting out the exact same way with a silent protagonist falling down into a cave with no memory and the goat characters looking just like the mimigas, jamming in a reference to the final fantasy VI opera, i'd say more than 50% of this game is purely reworking the material from other games into itself. subtle nods here and there wouldn't be as much of an issue, after all most games usually are taking cues from each other, but there's just a constant feeling of deja vu throughout the playthrough and rather than some of these moments delivering their own feel the thought of "oh this is a _____ reference" sits in your head during the moment and not much else.
the character flowey i think became one of the bigger eyerolls i've had at a game in awhile since the exaggerated evil dialog, how hard they're trying to make a flower look SpOoKy by putting evil faces on it, it felt like i was reading a bad creepypasta at points. there are spots where it sort of works but for the most part it was mostly pure embarrassment. as cool as the boss fight was with its gimmick of using save scumming it really laid on the feeling of reading a bad creepypasta - to the point where he calls himself god which made me feel like i was reading sonic.exe or something.
the game does have some good ideas worked in there and there's legitimately points where it can have something clever thrown in, the combat system is fun and i would love to see the concept of it explored more in the future since it could really turn into something great if expanded upon. the emotional punch that the game wants just didn't resonate due to the length though and how the characters you're supposed to care about are mostly frustrating living breathing catchphrases, and the tone feels confused due to the short length and hopping between being as goofy as possible to as serious as possible. you don't really feel attached to your choices since the morality system is black and white so you're going to do things you probably don't agree with just because it's a game and you are aiming for that one ending. as much as the game wants to break you off that mindset it just fails to do so unless you're really going to apply pressure to yourself to force the emotional responses it wants, and boy oh boy does it want them with how schmaltzy it gets. the genocide run ends up being the highlight of the game because you get to see actual proper characterization from everyone and the battle system fully gets taken advantage of, while the standard playthrough is all over the place and has some really groan worthy attempts at comedy. prepare yourself for the words "spaghetti" and "anime" to be dropped every other minute when those characters are on screen.
ultimately the game is a mixed bag, some things there are pretty entertaining or legitimately clever, but more than half of what there feels unpolished. things get pretty cringey and the game has a tendency with its writing to tell you how you feel rather than taking the steps to really get you there. the idea of a game where you don't have to fight anyone is novel but it doesn't get you thinking much since you recognize it's a game and you're going through the ropes to just get either the good or bad ending. the true highlight is the game's soundtrack which manages to bring out moments that would have fallen flat without it. decent combat, great soundtrack, pretty embarrassing writing, some downright miserable characters who are meant to be people they want you to like and ultimately save.
regarding the game's creator - let people enjoy the game they paid money for how they want. stop trying to police every aspect of it online, if people are going to datamine it they are going to datamine it. if people want to rip sprite sheets they are going to rip sprite sheets. if people are going to discuss it on tumblr without tagging it the way you want then they will. don't act like the community has to join together to yell these people for you threatening that you won't update the game because of it. very childish responses as a game developer and if this were a major title people would be rallying against you and would want to dig through it even moreso because you're ordering them not to.
regarding the game's community - when people say they hate undertale - this is why. honest to god this is the worst thing about the game because by itself it is by no means terrible, but the community managed to jam this thing down everyone's throats to a point that it was making people just hate it on principle. i cannot ever defend a game developer trying to dismiss any negativity towards a game as "people just hating it because it's popular" because that has to be one of the most egotistical things you could say, but there is a little truth to it here. people are lashing at the game itself rather than the community since that is what keeps being waved around in the air.
it's not like anything has a good fanbase to begin with. i think what ultimately saddens me most is obligated responses to it rather than anyone being legitimate about it. i don't care if you thought it's perfection, that is fine, but i legitimately get interested to hear the opposite end of things to see why people feel that way. my longest discussions with people on this game were people who either disliked it or were in the middle with it, almost everyone who loved it usually would make some broad vague statements about the game and leave it at that, while others i speak to can break the entire thing down bit by bit. it makes a lot of the following this has feel like it's some sort of obligation to enjoy it as much as they do rather than having some genuine attachment to it. it's like seeing a steam review for a game praising it as absolute perfection and then the person only has 5-10 minutes clocked on it total.
gaming blogs are really late to obligate some praise to it after people thinking it needs to be piggybacked on for social political messages and that it's some "us vs them" situation by saying you think it's perfection. it's convenient how sites didn't review it despite writing articles about it until 4 whole months later when they saw the community absolutely loved it and gave the obligated 10/10. ultimately though that is just how things like this sometimes go, a game that easily could've been getting 7/10's from sites and fading into the background could have been getting perfect scores in an alternate timeline where sites felt pressured by a community to love it.
i don't doubt people enjoying the game because there were things about it i liked, but to the extent it's going to there is obviously plenty of disingenuous responses people are giving it due to community pressure rather than just taking it at face value. maybe if there's three more sequels back to back like five nights at freddy's people will break off that initial excitement window and start acknowledging what they actually liked and disliked about the game.
at the end of the day we must ask ourselves this final question - if the game did not have a boob goat to draw porn of then would anyone have played it to begin with . . . ? ? ?
these are the real hard hitting questions . . .
since we're probably never doing an undertale review here's thoughts on it - undertale isn't terrible, but it's not exceptional.
regarding the game itself - its brief length harms any impact it is trying to have with its writing because characters you are supposed to be attached to don't really get developed outside of being a walking gimmick and catchphrase outside of two characters, one who we only see at the start, and one we only see at the end. the combat system is at least a good idea and moments where the game takes advantage of breaking the fourth wall can be interesting.
unfortunately for as fun as the combat system can be, a lot of fights essentially are just on a timeline and in the instance of some of the boss fights the game flat out is manipulating you to think what you are doing matters when ultimately there is no fail state, removing all tension or stakes put into that moment once the realization sets in. there's a handful of little clever moments with the writing here and there but a majority of the game's writing feels like jokes you'd see on a twitter timeline or done for the sake of being reblogged on a site like tumblr because a screenshot of a game with the choice of "ANIME IS REAL" is real ridiculous and random. spaghetti, bad puns, and anime are drilled so far into the ground that whatever endearing quality they were supposed to have for being bad jokes just turns into outright embarrassment wanting it to stop.
the question of morality isn't taken advantage of as much as it could be since ultimately you don't get the disconnect the game wants you to have acting as if these were real lives you were ending, and in cases how the game tries to rub in a kill get ridiculous considering the very first boss fight in the game more than likely was killed by 90% of players by accident. being called a filthy murderer for accidentally killing someone you weren't trying to kill but was fighting you trying to get you to kill them leads to eyerolls more than guilt, a situation where a player goes "what, that was bullshit" and having them start the game all over in anger after already sinking an hour into it. never does it make you question yourself at any point either because you are obliging it with its black and white structure rather than making choices for yourself. there's only three paths, genocide, neutral, and pacifist so you are just going to go one way or the other after learning that killing anyone will just throw you into the neutral route. for a game trying to spin game conventions on their heads i would have liked more variety in choices because just telling everyone it's a game where you don't have to hurt anyone means they won't knowing it gets the best ending if they explore outside of that. part of the reason people even get an impact seeing a character die is because they know it means their run is ruined for doing it, it's not necessarily because they didn't want to see the spaghetti joke man die.
the worst part of all of this with the morality system is that due to how the game was written, how brief it is, and how most characters don't really get fleshed out behind being a walking comedy gimmick is that the true ending for the pacifist run just feels really hamfisted. the fight just sort of comes out of the blue revealing something to us last moment and the writing is so schmaltzy it gets a little embarrassing (hopes and dreams!!! your friends are here for you!!!). the pacing in the game is already pretty awkward, the start and ends being played pretty serious and the middle just being pure goofs, so it makes this ending not really deliver the blow it probably wanted emotionally which is why the writing during it goes beyond 100% on the schmaltz factor. for such a brief game though it's obviously going to be hard to flesh these characters and this world out enough to make something like this have as much of a punch as they clearly wanted. the level of unpolish within the game makes me question if it did sort of get rushed to completion since it comes off that way at points. what's even sadder though is that ultimately the genocide route ends up being infinitely more interesting, we get to see sides of characters that would've helped flesh them out for that pacifist ending to give it more of that punch it wanted, and you also just get the best use of the combat system through it without any non-fail state slapped on top of it. the route of the game most people want to avoid ends up delivering the most interesting experience and handles itself the best in terms of tone.
alphys also is one of the most irredeemable and annoying characters i've witnessed in a game. it's good to give characters flaws but you should at least try to wedge something positive in there if you're supposed to be friends with them and want to defend them in some way.
the visuals here and there can actually look really nice but it's whenever an outside artist had offered a hand, most graphics in game being rough unpolished looking trash. the black and white look for battles at least masks this slightly but ultimately the game still looks like some weird fangame, i'd compare it to something like MUGEN where you are clashing a billion art styles together into a huge mess. a great example of this is comparing the rabbit shopkeeper or introduction art to cat who works at the burger place.
really what most likely pushed this game further ahead and gave some justification of popularity is its soundtrack which i cannot say anything bad about. most songs in the game are pretty memorable, sound good, and manage to salvage moments that the hideous visuals and shaky writing would have injured without it. easily one of the better soundtracks in a game in the past few years and is worth checking out.
for most people the references and lifted moments from other games wouldn't be as much of a concern since they're probably unfamiliar with most but i personally could not stop being irked from it, the final battles in the game very clearly taking from the end battles from mother games to the point that some lines are almost exactly copied from the giygas battle, the name "undertale" being a spin of "cave story" and the plot starting out the exact same way with a silent protagonist falling down into a cave with no memory and the goat characters looking just like the mimigas, jamming in a reference to the final fantasy VI opera, i'd say more than 50% of this game is purely reworking the material from other games into itself. subtle nods here and there wouldn't be as much of an issue, after all most games usually are taking cues from each other, but there's just a constant feeling of deja vu throughout the playthrough and rather than some of these moments delivering their own feel the thought of "oh this is a _____ reference" sits in your head during the moment and not much else.
the character flowey i think became one of the bigger eyerolls i've had at a game in awhile since the exaggerated evil dialog, how hard they're trying to make a flower look SpOoKy by putting evil faces on it, it felt like i was reading a bad creepypasta at points. there are spots where it sort of works but for the most part it was mostly pure embarrassment. as cool as the boss fight was with its gimmick of using save scumming it really laid on the feeling of reading a bad creepypasta - to the point where he calls himself god which made me feel like i was reading sonic.exe or something.
the game does have some good ideas worked in there and there's legitimately points where it can have something clever thrown in, the combat system is fun and i would love to see the concept of it explored more in the future since it could really turn into something great if expanded upon. the emotional punch that the game wants just didn't resonate due to the length though and how the characters you're supposed to care about are mostly frustrating living breathing catchphrases, and the tone feels confused due to the short length and hopping between being as goofy as possible to as serious as possible. you don't really feel attached to your choices since the morality system is black and white so you're going to do things you probably don't agree with just because it's a game and you are aiming for that one ending. as much as the game wants to break you off that mindset it just fails to do so unless you're really going to apply pressure to yourself to force the emotional responses it wants, and boy oh boy does it want them with how schmaltzy it gets. the genocide run ends up being the highlight of the game because you get to see actual proper characterization from everyone and the battle system fully gets taken advantage of, while the standard playthrough is all over the place and has some really groan worthy attempts at comedy. prepare yourself for the words "spaghetti" and "anime" to be dropped every other minute when those characters are on screen.
ultimately the game is a mixed bag, some things there are pretty entertaining or legitimately clever, but more than half of what there feels unpolished. things get pretty cringey and the game has a tendency with its writing to tell you how you feel rather than taking the steps to really get you there. the idea of a game where you don't have to fight anyone is novel but it doesn't get you thinking much since you recognize it's a game and you're going through the ropes to just get either the good or bad ending. the true highlight is the game's soundtrack which manages to bring out moments that would have fallen flat without it. decent combat, great soundtrack, pretty embarrassing writing, some downright miserable characters who are meant to be people they want you to like and ultimately save.
regarding the game's creator - let people enjoy the game they paid money for how they want. stop trying to police every aspect of it online, if people are going to datamine it they are going to datamine it. if people want to rip sprite sheets they are going to rip sprite sheets. if people are going to discuss it on tumblr without tagging it the way you want then they will. don't act like the community has to join together to yell these people for you threatening that you won't update the game because of it. very childish responses as a game developer and if this were a major title people would be rallying against you and would want to dig through it even moreso because you're ordering them not to.
regarding the game's community - when people say they hate undertale - this is why. honest to god this is the worst thing about the game because by itself it is by no means terrible, but the community managed to jam this thing down everyone's throats to a point that it was making people just hate it on principle. i cannot ever defend a game developer trying to dismiss any negativity towards a game as "people just hating it because it's popular" because that has to be one of the most egotistical things you could say, but there is a little truth to it here. people are lashing at the game itself rather than the community since that is what keeps being waved around in the air.
it's not like anything has a good fanbase to begin with. i think what ultimately saddens me most is obligated responses to it rather than anyone being legitimate about it. i don't care if you thought it's perfection, that is fine, but i legitimately get interested to hear the opposite end of things to see why people feel that way. my longest discussions with people on this game were people who either disliked it or were in the middle with it, almost everyone who loved it usually would make some broad vague statements about the game and leave it at that, while others i speak to can break the entire thing down bit by bit. it makes a lot of the following this has feel like it's some sort of obligation to enjoy it as much as they do rather than having some genuine attachment to it. it's like seeing a steam review for a game praising it as absolute perfection and then the person only has 5-10 minutes clocked on it total.
gaming blogs are really late to obligate some praise to it after people thinking it needs to be piggybacked on for social political messages and that it's some "us vs them" situation by saying you think it's perfection. it's convenient how sites didn't review it despite writing articles about it until 4 whole months later when they saw the community absolutely loved it and gave the obligated 10/10. ultimately though that is just how things like this sometimes go, a game that easily could've been getting 7/10's from sites and fading into the background could have been getting perfect scores in an alternate timeline where sites felt pressured by a community to love it.
i don't doubt people enjoying the game because there were things about it i liked, but to the extent it's going to there is obviously plenty of disingenuous responses people are giving it due to community pressure rather than just taking it at face value. maybe if there's three more sequels back to back like five nights at freddy's people will break off that initial excitement window and start acknowledging what they actually liked and disliked about the game.
at the end of the day we must ask ourselves this final question - if the game did not have a boob goat to draw porn of then would anyone have played it to begin with . . . ? ? ?
these are the real hard hitting questions . . .
