Palemoon dev Tobin/NTP/New Tobin Paradigm leaves the project - >Guess 4chan was right.. never trust a fuckin furfag.

[OutlawHusbando]

What Pale Moon project needs to do the most is to recruit, recruit new developers from Seamonkey and other Firefox-related projects, dead projects like K-Meleon to make a comeback.
I don't know if people are willing to work for free, but they need to finish WebComponents quick then move on.

Performance is also another worth concerning problem, 1 main UI process, 1 web content process (Total: 2 firefox.exe(s)) like the very first version of Firefox's Electrolysis isn't too bad, just later they went full Chrome clone and implemented 1 main UI process, 1 process per web content (Total: Many firefox.exe(s).

 

[New Tobin Paradigm]

What Pale Moon project needs to do the most is to recruit, recruit new developers from Seamonkey and other Firefox-related projects, dead projects like K-Meleon to make a comeback.
I don't know if people are willing to work for free, but they need to finish WebComponents quick then move on.

SeaMonkey, even though my relationship with them has improved considerably only recently, is still on what could be termed a developmental death march. They don't have the resources to do what they need to do let alone lend much out to other projects. That and Moonchild spurned them long before I joined up and I believe is why I could never get any sort of collaborative alliance off the ground. Moonchild also was solely the ONLY contact we had with the Waterfox project when they were riding the ESR 52 train. Obviously that went no where and Alex eventually sold out to an ad-click company when his plans to appstore xul extensions utterly failed and he ran into the same difficulties we are faced though he had no real intention of getting past them with hard work of his own.

Never considered it before but this may have been the motivating factor behind the Basilisk project and why Moonchild was so deadset on doing it despite it being the antithesis of all previously stated principles and goals of what we were doing. One simply doesn't go from railing against the very technological and visual design of something to then suddenly doing your own not without other motivations driving it.. So, a possibility? hmmmm.

Performance is also another worth concerning problem, 1 main UI process, 1 web content process (Total: 2 firefox.exe(s)) like the very first version of Firefox's Electrolysis isn't too bad, just later they went full Chrome clone and implemented 1 main UI process, 1 process per web content (Total: Many firefox.exe(s).

Multiprocess design even in a limited scope creates WAY more overhead than you would ever gain by the ability to have non-blocking tasks in another process. The IPC and Security costs are enormous and that is nice if you are investing in a future by creating the very work you will be doing down the road and that work is creating more work and so on perpetually, as well as, have practically unlimited Google funding.

What needs to be done is to make the thing much more multi-threaded where you can achieve the non-blocking and illusory speed increases via async dispatch of work to those threads but maintain the security of the system to one process designed NOT to fail instead of designing it to fail gracefully all without the IPC and multi-process overhead. But Moonchild doesn't SEEM to be interested in that either as he either won't or can't do much of anything in that regard despite claiming otherwise. I know I can't but cpp is NOT among my specialties and experience. No that will have to be gained as I do things. HOWEVER, it is HIS. So make of it what you will.

 

[Kiwi & Cow]

Thanks! Ugh. Of course, not just furries but fat furries.
View attachment 3101804

Uploaded "manifesto" to the thread, to preserve it.

>Mircea Kitsune

We've got a lolcow crossover.

PS: This Tobin guy should be verified by a mod.

 

[OutlawHusbando]

Multiprocess design even in a limited scope creates WAY more overhead than you would ever gain by the ability to have non-blocking tasks in another process. The IPC and Security costs are enormous and that is nice if you are investing in a future by creating the very work you will be doing down the road and that work is creating more work and so on perpetually, as well as, have practically unlimited Google funding.

What needs to be done is to make the thing much more multi-threaded where you can achieve the non-blocking and illusory speed increases via async dispatch of work to those threads but maintain the security of the system to one process designed NOT to fail instead of designing it to fail gracefully all without the IPC and multi-process overhead. But Moonchild doesn't SEEM to be interested in that either as he either won't or can't do much of anything in that regard despite claiming otherwise. I know I can't but cpp is NOT among my specialties and experience. No that will have to be gained as I do things. HOWEVER, it is HIS. So make of it what you will.

Yeah, asyncio is pretty good, I know the best example about asyncio is NGINX vs Apache, not sure if it's enough to handle big webpage like Google Colab (usually takes around 1.2GB RAM alone with only 1 tab, but Colab users usually want to open more than 1), so single process web browser will hit limit pretty fast and I know Pale Moon has some memory leaks, try to open Hotmail, wait for about 15mins-1hour, and close Hotmail, Palemoon will be at around 1.2GB and never get memory resources back from Hotmail, and it even causes very high CPU spike.

 

[New Tobin Paradigm]

OldCoder is one for the record books. He simply won't die even though being what nearly 70 now and confined to a wheel chair and reportedly has choking attacks when just sitting there breathing? If he used tumblr he'd put any tumblr keyboard warrior to shame for sure. But yeah, full of amusement. I can't believe I took even one ounce of it seriously when I first encountered him. He would be dangerous if he didn't document his complete efforts to what would these days be called cancelling people in some of the most inane ramblings one ever did see.

I mean if he comes after you for whatever reason or fanfiction.net candidate story he has cobbled together all leading back to his parents or another cause he is out to obliterate.. His main site should set you at ease because no one can take him seriously after reading even the first page.

I'd personally like to see him set his sights (and sites lol) on the farm and see what THAT gets him. Maybe it would finally put him out to pasture.

 

[New Tobin Paradigm]

PS: This Tobin guy should be verified by a mod.

https://twitter.com/mattatobin/status/1525912586029617153

Check the html source on binaryoutcast.com.

On an unrelated note:

 

[usernames can change now!]

no one cares you retarded faggot

on the contrary, I think this thread is a brilliant new development in the field of self-documenting lolcows

 

[New Tobin Paradigm]

on the contrary, I think this thread is a brilliant new development in the field of self-documenting lolcows

Well I aim to please. I have lead the way in many new approaches revitalizing older concepts before why should this be no different! Though like many of my previous initiatives I am not sure how many would stick around and legitimately talk to or consider the advice from a group when the primary goal is, of course, the highlight of said lolcows. Though I personally find it of benefit to not only my self but to everyone else. Kinda helps that the group isn't personally involved in or dependent upon what has happened, is happening, or will happen so actual assessment and legit criticism from an independent source is actually valuable. Least to me it is in my specific instance.

 

[sardonica]

What needs to be done is to make the thing much more multi-threaded where you can achieve the non-blocking and illusory speed increases via async dispatch of work to those threads but maintain the security of the system to one process designed NOT to fail instead of designing it to fail gracefully all without the IPC and multi-process overhead.

Y'all were lied to about multiprocess. Multiprocess applications take advantage of multiple cores better on Windows. Build something you understand as multithreaded and as multiprocess on a modern computer with 8 or more cores. Run benchmarks and see what you find. Ready for a spoiler? Multiprocess applications make better use of modern computers. Unless you only care about running your application on old-ass Linux and XP machines what y'all were told is total bullshit.

What they ain't telling you is async dispatch of work to threads that share the same memory space has a yuge risk of stack corruption and is a pain in the ass even for programmers who make the big bucks. It would only beat multiprocess if you do manual thread scheduling that accounts for everything. I ain't seen any evidence that this Moonchild dude is any kind of expert on scheduling threads better than the OS scheduler can or manually managing pools of memory to avoid stack corruption.

Multiprocess also makes debugging an application much easier because you can analyze a single process failure in a debugger. In a massively multithreaded application one misbehaving thing crashes the whole application and makes it tough to track down what the hell happened.

Truth is most of those old programmers blame the idea of IPC because they can't write or maintain good IPC code. They say it's bad because they never needed it before. They had nightmares dealing with early implementations that leave them assuming they can do a better job than the OS scheduler even today. People don't write entire huge modern applications in assembler because that worked well on early computers and could improve performance if done by experts.

 

[New Tobin Paradigm]

Problem is that you sort of have it backwards. Process creation on Windows is expensive computational wise while on Linux it is virtually without cost. While I don't doubt that multiprocess sandboxed IPC can be done properly.. I don't believe anyone, including Google and certainly not Mozilla, has achieved it yet in a way that won't result in massive bloat and constant security issues.

I do not believe one can ever achieve it in classical Mozilla code AND retain broad compatibility and viablity of the core technology and that is fine in my view. Within context multi-threaded is the best way forward on that front for what such an effort intends to be. What you need to keep in mind is that there IS often more than one way to solve a problem AND not all solutions, while almost certainly possible, make tangible sense within the context of what you want to achieve over all.

 

[New Tobin Paradigm]

A small update: khronosschoty was banned from the entire Pale Moon infrastructure and Athenian200 is gonna launch his spiteful email client to compete with me:

[1242-16] <khronosschoty> how are you doing NewTobinParadigm
[1243-06] <NewTobinParadigm> procrastinating on releasing the build that will inform users that gmail is basically dead
[1243-09] * Thedarkb-Desktop1 has quit (Connection closed)
[1243-22] <khronosschoty> gmail needs to die
[1243-46] <khronosschoty> my friends phone broke
[1244-16] <khronosschoty> and suddenly google decided they won't let him into his gmail account until he verifies with his phone
[1244-32] <khronosschoty> even tho 1.) he didn't foeget his password, and 2.) he has a back up email as well
[1244-48] <khronosschoty> it just sends him to an endless loop that basically requires the non existent phone
[1245-04] <khronosschoty> so basically I'm having to fix his phone so he can get back into gmail
[1245-12] <khronosschoty> but I told him once its all done he needs to ditch it
[1245-14] <khronosschoty> lol
[1246-32] <khronosschoty> https://www.bequiet.com/en/darkbasepro900
[1246-55] <khronosschoty> thats the case I'musing to build my new desktop
[1247-15] <NewTobinParadigm> athenian is gonna fudge it all
[1247-30] <khronosschoty> what do you mean?
[1247-39] <NewTobinParadigm> and once i announce that oauth2 support is impossible to maintain he and the moonies will use that against us
[1247-42] <khronosschoty> try and keep gmail alive ?
[1247-49] <khronosschoty> ahh
[1247-54] <NewTobinParadigm> khronosschoty: he will have oauth2 key as a pref
[1248-32] <khronosschoty> its time to market google incompatibilities as a feature
[1248-36] <khronosschoty> not a bug
[1248-38] <khronosschoty> is how I See it
[1248-49] <khronosschoty> for lack of better way of putting it
[1249-13] <NewTobinParadigm> yeah but the moonies will believe anything they are told as long as it doesn't come from me
[1249-15] <khronosschoty> and possible a little explanation on why
[1249-45] <khronosschoty> did I tell you moonchild banned me from the forum
[1249-52] <khronosschoty> randomly lol
[1249-57] <NewTobinParadigm> one user deemed Interlink as not viable while another asked why and his post was rejected
[1249-58] <khronosschoty> even tho I haven't even posted on it
[1250-03] <khronosschoty> about anything
[1250-12] <NewTobinParadigm> khronosschoty: he read the kiwifarms thread
[1250-20] <NewTobinParadigm> that's why
[1250-37] <NewTobinParadigm> it is also why he revised his explanation on Basilisk
[1250-46] <khronosschoty> and the reason listed is a violation of netiquette
[1251-16] <NewTobinParadigm> guilt by association is a violation of netiquette now
[1251-27] <khronosschoty> I thought it was funny
[1251-33] <NewTobinParadigm> congrats.. Moonchild made you his enemy
[1251-45] <khronosschoty> I mean not thaty I ever had a lot of power to do anything but had I really been out to cause trouble
[1251-50] <NewTobinParadigm> Welcome to Binary Outcast khronosschoty
[1251-57] <khronosschoty> my first move would of been to just cause hell in git
[1252-55] <khronosschoty> I could of wasted at least a day or so of his time
[1252-57] <khronosschoty> etc
[1253-23] <khronosschoty> my point is his being stupid once again
[1253-49] <NewTobinParadigm> well since you aren't a conspirator and was actually THERE for the alienbob thing YOU know what really happened and you can now expound on how being associated with the Pale Moon project damaged your standing in the slackware community and it wasn't MY decsion but Moonchild's orders to snub alienbob
[1254-25] <khronosschoty> I wouldn't say it was that cut n dry
[1254-31] <khronosschoty> bubt more or less that is true
[1254-41] <khronosschoty> the only thing I really care about is the loss of my one friend
[1254-54] <khronosschoty> but the way I see it was I guess he wasn't really my friend was he
[1255-14] <NewTobinParadigm> If I had not had strict instructions on Pale Moon's build requirements and not been put into the position to enforce them none of this bullshit would have been as bad
[1255-52] <NewTobinParadigm> I already admitted my mistake of allowing it to go so aggressive BUT then again in the OpenBSD Issue 86 I merely shouted.. he THREATENED legal action
[1255-53] <khronosschoty> I see how moonchild pretended to be more relaxed and reasonable
[1256-19] <khronosschoty> but in reality was really anti Linux and had a I don't care about anyone but me chip on his shoulder
[1256-32] <NewTobinParadigm> well yeah he IS antilinux
[1256-52] <NewTobinParadigm> why travis sticks around i dunno
[1256-58] <khronosschoty> you got the bad rap just because your more honest is how I see it
[1257-07] <khronosschoty> and Moonchild is more pretentious
[1257-51] <NewTobinParadigm> I always tried to do things according to the guidelines and requirements he spelled out in no uncertain terms
[1257-56] <NewTobinParadigm> and that has cost me dearly
[1258-39] <khronosschoty> I'm still not convinced that it can't be turned around
[1258-56] <NewTobinParadigm> he knows for a fact everyone believes I am what has ruined the project and he used that and i walked right into that trap
[1259-12] <khronosschoty> the die hard moonchild whisperers were a lost cause from day 1
[1259-16] <khronosschoty> is how I See it
[1259-23] <khronosschoty> worshipers
[1259-38] <NewTobinParadigm> I can only prove my self by continuing in good faith
[1259-47] <khronosschoty> yup
[1300-05] <NewTobinParadigm> but explaining everything will fall on deaf ears, blind eyes, and closed minds with rare exception

 

[New Tobin Paradigm]

Well.. I found what happened to my RPMO git organization: https://repo.palemoon.org/robinson-crusoe which is obviously the renamed Binary Outcast org and likely has all the private repos plus those public repos for things that are clearly mine. Including a non-xul based project that predates my involvement in the Pale Moon project. Moonchild can just .. give my projects away. Like Grabbie which has nothing to do with Firefox or XUL or anything being a C# Visual Studio project.

Also, the DOM Inspector and other BinOC extensions. My other two orgs are likely there as well to be mined for anything Moonchild might have a chance to make use of. What a scumbag.

 

[CYKA RUSH B]

Well.. I found what happened to my RPMO git organization: https://repo.palemoon.org/robinson-crusoe which is obviously the renamed Binary Outcast org and likely has all the private repos plus those public repos for things that are clearly mine. Including a non-xul based project that predates my involvement in the Pale Moon project. Moonchild can just .. give my projects away. Like Grabbie which has nothing to do with Firefox or XUL or anything being a C# Visual Studio project.

Also, the DOM Inspector and other BinOC extensions. My other two orgs are likely there as well to be mined for anything Moonchild might have a chance to make use of. What a scumbag.

Tobin: Assuming you still visit this site, i really need to know some stuff regarding the drama with Feodor and My Pal

1. Why all the bullshit in the first place? Was there an actual motivation or was it some lame personal vendetta against Feodor or his fork.

2. Who was driving the shitty campaign against MyPal? Was it the furry sodomite or were you (also) personally invested in making Feodor's life miserable? If you weren't personally invested, were you executing marching orders from the retarded swede?

3. Do you actually care about loicense-related minutiae personally?

4. Did it occur to you (or whoever was behind the drama) that no one using My Pal gave a shit about license-related autism and they just wanted to be able to run a semi up-to-date browser on their 2k/XP machines, and that all the pale moon team managed to do was alienate users and damage their own reputation? If this was understood, did they (you, the wolf-cummer, whoever) care about hits to pale moon's reputation?

5. (unrelated) What's your opinion on MikeeUSA?


I wanted to hate on you more but autism aside you've aqcuitted yourself decently in this thread, and your opinion on the Windows 2000 UI experience is spot on so I can't hate you as much as I would want to.

 

[New Tobin Paradigm]

Greetings!

1. The original motivation and issue was that at the end of the day both fedor and roytam were attempting to gain notoriety by badly hacking together an unsupported and repeatedly ill-advised code changes but otherwise doing barely the minimum amount of work to produce a binary while putting users at risk and all while associating them selves or outright claiming to be operating under our THEN good name. That and every attempt to encurage them to truly make it their own was either ignored str8 up by roytam or imposed kicking and screaming by fedor.

2. Really? It was all of us. With the minor caveat that even when I was the most aggressive with it little to nothing was ever said except when various gambits succeeded or failed. Certainly not any real attempts to prevent it.. Well until that became a point in my plan last year.

3. Yeah I do. To put it in a very basic way.. I believe there is room for and it is of benefit to both foster open community code while still owning intellectual property. That is kinda why I like the MPL specifically as such a license.

4. Issues become actions, actions become policy, policy becomes doctrain, and thus you have the almost infinite increasing in escalation and response.

5. I have no idea what that is. Is it someone I should look up?

Re: Win2k.. Given what Microsoft's plans were at the time it makes sense that Win2k and the NT Shell Team would be working with the 9x shell team to make sure that NT has all the shell niceities as well as the updated 256 color icons with a UX pass from 9x for NT 5 as a "Personal" sku was planned. Too bad that it didn't happen that way at the time.

See: Windows Neptune

 

[New Tobin Paradigm]

I still need more monitors.

 

[New Tobin Paradigm]

Hmm... Think this has any relevance?

 

[New Tobin Paradigm]

So I saw in the lolcow requests about making Pale Moon a subject thread that would eventually subsume this one. If you guys wanna take this self-documenting lolcow concept to the next level let me know how I can help. But I am pretty busy with my general autism so it will depend how quickly I respond. Also clearnet.

ANYWAY, the request cited the Pale Moon history page.. and woe boy that update for events this year... that fanfic sure has evolved since the last incarnation. Now I ran MULTIPLE servers for the project that I shut down.. and much much more.

As a reminder I only have two servers.. Bismuth the then only BinOC server and Regolith now called Gallium which was the server I got when I split my VPS back in the day for the specific reason of keeping things separate. MAN I wish I had stuck to that.

 

[New Tobin Paradigm]

Well I had not intended a piece of news so soon after my last post but I had to bring this to light. So you know how two posts ago I did a modification of the Simpons Monorail drawing using Wolfbeast's furry avatar.. Of course as some may have noticed it is now full on furry art again.. Not just a cartoon.

Well it seems the money has dried up from end of March so he is falling back on the most basic trope of deviant furrism.. eWhoring your "art" for cash. I present his second metal coin release which has nothing to do with Pale Moon at all and is just a slightly unconventional expression of the same old furfaggotry. The lampshad he tries to hang over it is very telling. https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=29054&p=233694

 

[Ufssz B. Ebwjt]

Well it seems the money has dried up from end of March so he is falling back on the most basic trope of deviant furrism.. eWhoring your "art" for cash.

Does Moonchild live off donations and these sales-drives? Or does he have a day job/consultancy type gig keeping him afloat?

If it is donations, I'm surprised he's been getting enough to live off. The userbase must be waning because of the increasingly poor web compatibility. I'd imagine the project must be near the tipping point, where it's not worthwhile for him to keep developing (at least as much as he has been).

 

[I'm Retarded?]

bro have you been keeping your own thread alive for the past six months lmao

I originally heard about the Pale Moon browser on the techxodus wiki when I was looking for a Firefox replacement. I uninstalled it after five minutes because the interface was hideous and it wouldn't install any of my privacy addons. anyway that's my story y'all, thanks for listening