Paradox Studio Thread

[Karakhalkin-Gol]

Just got Victoria 2 and playing as Belgium. How the fuck do I keep the Dutch off my back in the first few years?

 

[JJLiautaud]

Just got Victoria 2 and playing as Belgium. How the fuck do I keep the Dutch off my back in the first few years?

Do what the real Belgians did and ally with GB or Prussia or France

 

[Computer God Autism]

Just got Victoria 2 and playing as Belgium. How the fuck do I keep the Dutch off my back in the first few years?

Are you playing it unmodded? If you are, that's your first problem.

 

[Karakhalkin-Gol]

Are you playing it unmodded?

Yes. I’d like to familiarize myself with the game before I do any modded runs.

Do what the real Belgians did and ally with GB or Prussia or France

Allying GB alone wasn’t enough. I had to mobilize before I unpaused and put all troops on the border. In 2 test runs, not even that dissuaded the Dutch. It seems mostly up to the AI than anything.

 

[Computer God Autism]

Yes. I’d like to familiarize myself with the game before I do any modded runs.

Don't. There's no advantage to playing unmodded Vic 2. Just get HPM for the most basic Vic 2+ plus experience; it doesn't change any of the mechanics significantly, but it does make them actually function. Unmodded Vic 2 is an overglorified tech demo.

 

[General Emílio Médici]

New paradox maps! Prosperity/Devastation, development, building roads, privacy/privateering, and next week will be conquest, integration and CBs
Week after week, Johan delivers. I thought that I'd be done with new paradox games after the Vic 3 disaster but he has brought me back.

>Devastation and prosperity are now a single value, going to -100/100
>Development is still a thing, but now "represents how cultivated the land is, and how much it is used by the pops living there. The higher the development, the more people can live there, and the more it can be exploited", "the player mostly only has indirect control over, but you can have your cabinet working on improving development in an entire province at once."
>Roads are crucial for increasing control and improving trade, reducing proximity control by a half and increasing army movement speed, new roads are unlocked over time and increase those effects even more
>You can built roads in countries with positive opinions, roads can and will be connected for trade

This is very nice. It sounds like they are really taking all the ideas that work on EU4 and building them directly into the core game to really have it all work together.

 

[Stoneheart]

Has Johan gone into the mana situation yet? Everything I remember so far is pointing towards it being removed, and THANK FUCK.

Some people like Mana, atleast like its used in eu4...

 

[Computer God Autism]

Some people like Mana, atleast like its used in eu4...

Yes and they are all missing grey matter.

 

[Snekposter]

Yes and they are all missing grey matter.

Don't be mean to the poor German. Its not his fault evolution left him craving clocks and timers.

 

[Bobbobson]

Has Johan gone into the mana situation yet? Everything I remember so far is pointing towards it being removed, and THANK FUCK.

 

[Kane Lives]

View attachment 6435592

I kneel, Johan.

 

[Stoneheart]

Yes and they are all missing grey matter.

Its just by far the best system they came up with. It gives power to the player.

I kneel, Johan.

He is full of shit, no way they do the 2nd part. they will just hide those in somewhere. there will be a cap on trade, force limit and other stuff, it will be soft only in name.
there is no other way or the game is broken from the start.

 

[Super Hans v2]

He is full of shit, no way they do the 2nd part. they will just hide those in somewhere. there will be a cap on trade, force limit and other stuff, it will be soft only in name.
there is no other way or the game is broken from the start.

It's already been said that some buildings will need maintenance resources, I'd be cool with it it militaries did too. And even if not, it's not like you'd be able to afford the gold to field a Grand Armée as Foix.

 

[Chickenpolar]

View attachment 6435592

I actually liked Mana and the way it changed things up from EU3 to EU4 but moving on from it is the right call. It's been 11 years and the mechanic is played out.

 

[Computer God Autism]

Its just by far the best system they came up with. It gives power to the player.

No, it doesn't. The most important decisions a player will make in EU4 are always in the early game, and they come down to which allies you choose and how quickly you can get them, how quickly you can max out your forcelimit - neither of which are driven by mana - and how quickly you can get through the first two or three mil techs, which is being held hostage by your mana generation. Mana disassociates mechanics from each other, actions from consequence and removes most of the opportunity costs involved in strategizing while increasing the ways the player can be arbitrarily punished. Mana in the EU4 sense is incredibly arcadey and is easily the most casualized aspect of EU4 to the point where it's just an extremely convoluted risk. If mana has to exist in a Paradox game it needs to be similar to CK2's piety and prestige; there are clearly defined sources, clearly defined expenditures, there are benefits to storing and risk-reward for deficits, and most importantly they don't drive core gameplay progression.

 

[Bobbobson]

Every action that mana is spent on in EU4 can easily be simulated by spending gold, resources or managing pops. All those things are present in the EU5 and I will always consider removal of unnecessary abstractions to be a good thing for the game aspiring to be simulation of history.

 

[Stoneheart]

It's already been said that some buildings will need maintenance resources, I'd be cool with it it militaries did too. And even if not, it's not like you'd be able to afford the gold to field a Grand Armée as Foix.

like i said, he is full of shit...

The most important decisions a player will make in EU4 are always in the early game, and they come down to which allies you choose and how quickly you can get them, how quickly you can max out your forcelimit

Well there are rules in MP and its not an issue in SP because the AI is retarded...
You can solo The Ottos as Albania

neither of which are driven by mana - and how quickly you can get through the first two or three mil techs, which is being held hostage by your mana generation.

Thats how some nations are nerfed. its a much better mechanic than having 100 custom modifiers. those maybe work at launch but will be a huge issue after 3 DLC.

Mana disassociates mechanics from each other, actions from consequence and removes most of the opportunity costs involved in strategizing while increasing the ways the player can be arbitrarily punished.

It works and is much harder to fuck up than other systems.

Mana in the EU4 sense is incredibly arcadey and is easily the most casualized aspect of EU4 to the point where it's just an extremely convoluted risk.

It makes the parts of the game people are least interest easyer.

If mana has to exist in a Paradox game it needs to be similar to CK2's piety and prestige; there are clearly defined sources, clearly defined expenditures, there are benefits to storing and risk-reward for deficits, and most importantly they don't drive core gameplay progression.

yeah, because there is just very little gameplay progression. you have buildings, tech and laws as main progressions. buildings and tech can be ignored if you have enough piety or prestige. some laws are useful, but the main law most people care about can be circumvented with murder.

Every action that mana is spent on in EU4 can easily be simulated by spending gold, resources or managing pops. All those things are present in the EU5 and I will always consider removal of unnecessary abstractions to be a good thing for the game aspiring to be simulation of history.

Its still a game and fun should be the core of the game. did you have fun managing pops and resources in Vic2? Vic2 and IR are the games doing it the best and its still not fun. they are also the games that more or less require you to do it. there is also Stellaris, where you can both after 100 ingame years.
You also must be very high on crack if you think that they should go more complex by replacing well working system. Have you seen CK3 and Vic3?

 

[Computer God Autism]

Well there are rules in MP and its not an issue in SP because the AI is retarded...

Okay, and? Mana doesn't give you any more power in MP than in SP.

Thats how some nations are nerfed. its a much better mechanic than having 100 custom modifiers.

No, it's not. Institutions are how most nations are 'nerfed' and even countries like Castile that start off with poor rulers don't typically have issue keeping up. Disasters, which were Paradox's intended way to put some breaks on early-game snowballing, will typically increase things such as revolt risk or nerf income, but leave mana generation unaffected - because mana simultaneously has little impact on a tag's day to day performance while still driving its progression. It's implementation is retarded and I would prefer 100 custom modifiers to a single instance of monarch mana because at least those modifiers help meaningfully customize tags and one of EU4's strong points is that its UI is actually good at helping the player understand them.

It makes the parts of the game people are least interest easyer.

Such as... technology? You know, that system that's incredibly engaging in Victoria 2? Or maybe rulers and advisors? That system that is infinitely more interactive in CK2? Maybe you mean being able to develop your territory - something CK2 and Vic 2 and even Stellaris all offer in more interesting ways. The mechanics most reliant on mana are the least interesting to players because they are most reliant on mana, and the mechanics EU4 has that are least reliant on it, namely Estates and Diplomacy, are the most engaging parts of its gameplay loop because there's so little mana involved.

yeah, because there is just very little gameplay progression. you have buildings, tech and laws as main progressions. buildings and tech can be ignored if you have enough piety or prestige. some laws are useful, but the main law most people care about can be circumvented with murder.

The progression of CK2 is not buildings or tech, it's the proliferation of your dynasty. CK2 offers you more flexibility in playing than in EU4 in that regard too; you don't have to be top dog as long as you can hold onto a single county, and so 'progression' can be building up a small demesne well above your neighbors as much as trying to collect titles everywhere. or trying to raise a small number of dynasty members to be morally upright or have good genes, or just trying to make as many of them as possible regardless of how they turn out. Similarly, large realms can be held together just as well by morally upright, high diplomacy rulers as much as murderhobos wearing eight crowns at once. And no, buildings and tech can't be ignored if you have enough piety or prestige - tell me you don't understand CK2 without telling me.

Its still a game and fun should be the core of the game. did you have fun managing pops and resources in Vic2

Yes, and mana is anti-fun. If you want an arcadey map painter, play HOI4, or online Risk if you somehow aren't already an eunuch.

 

[JJLiautaud]

did you have fun managing pops and resources in Vic2

I did actually but then again I am severrey autistic. But seriously having a very important element of the game were you can only tweak around the edges is actually a super interesting mechanic and really immerses you into your role as the state in Vicky 2.

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

The concept of having a sort of bureaucratic capacity as a resource was a good idea.
It was implemented terribly in EU4 and came to devour the entire game.