Pirating media/software

[Glaive]

I know the thread says "media", but if we extend this to cover software as well, how many of us have actually paid for things like Photoshop, Flash dev kit, Sony Vegas, or Illustrator?

Betting not many. Hell, sometimes even pirated versions of software end up functioning BETTER than the paid version.
I've found cracked versions of Windows such as XP Black Edition that end up with significantly less bloatware and are already tweaked for optimal performance cutting out all the useless Microsoft processes.

Proprietary software stipples advancement to the point where we have crackers making better game/software hotfixes and patches than the original devs themselves. Pirate and proud.

Also mandatory for this discussion: http://lazytorrents.ytmnd.com/

 

[Some JERK]

I have been and still am a victim of pirating. I wrote several books and released them last year. (self-published) and I have had to file DMCA's at least a dozen times over the last year because of assholes who think they shouldn't have to pay for my books. I try to make my books reasonably priced and the electronic versions of my books are only a third of what the paperback versions cost because there is no overhead for paper, ink, shipping, etc so I tried to be fair with the prices. But assholes still think they can just rip my books and distribute for free despite my asking to please do not do so, within the copyright information in my books. So as a person who has been personally victimized by pirating, I can't say I am in favor of it, especially if you're a small-time person (author/artist/musician/etc) because I don't make anywhere near enough money off my books to quit my day job or anything lofty like that. I worked very hard on my books to make them the best they can possibly be and it really hurts me when I see my work on a free download site.

The problem is that you can't stop it. Yes, you are totally in the right, but that doesn't change the reality. People are going to pirate your stuff if it's worth something. The only way you could reasonably curtail this is to never EVER release anything in digital format. (But then some asshole with a good OCR scanner will probably just do it for you at some point if there's a serious interest in it.) Again, I'm not sure what the real answer is here, but I do know that the reason the assholes think they can just rip your books and distribute them without your permission is because they actually can.

 

[A-№1]

Creators need to convince me I'm getting something out of my money for me to hand it over.

I have no problem with paying creators. It's middle men who have to convince me. Because they are the ones who profit the most from copyright (and whine about it the most and fuck with it the most), not creators.

I'm also ok with sharing books and music by people who are already dead.

That's how copyright is supposed to work. But since corporations are fucking immortal and even if they do fail they sell their intellectual "property" on to other immortal corporations, they'd much rather continue to profit from the creativity of others forever and have the wherewithal to buy enough politicians to get what they want.

 

[Marvin]

I have been and still am a victim of pirating. I wrote several books and released them last year. (self-published) and I have had to file DMCA's at least a dozen times over the last year because of assholes who think they shouldn't have to pay for my books. I try to make my books reasonably priced and the electronic versions of my books are only a third of what the paperback versions cost because there is no overhead for paper, ink, shipping, etc so I tried to be fair with the prices. But assholes still think they can just rip my books and distribute for free despite my asking to please do not do so, within the copyright information in my books. So as a person who has been personally victimized by pirating, I can't say I am in favor of it, especially if you're a small-time person (author/artist/musician/etc) because I don't make anywhere near enough money off my books to quit my day job or anything lofty like that. I worked very hard on my books to make them the best they can possibly be and it really hurts me when I see my work on a free download site.

That's unfortunate, but times change. Making a living off of writing books might end up being infeasible. (Not that I think that's actually what's going to happen, but you've got to admit that's a possibility.)

Copyright is a benefit provided by the government to encourage stuff like what you're doing. The only thing that's happening now is that copyright is quickly becoming useless for those ends.

Spoiler: Me sperging about shit I probably know nothing about.

The internet has been the biggest game changer since intellectual property rights were established. There's simply no way to completely stop it, because you can't legislate the actions of people offshore. So even if you completely eradicated piracy that originates in one country, it's still going to happen.

I'm not saying I know what the answer is. But I do know that it isn't going to come from harsher punishments for breaking existing rules. Hell, there are almost no punishments for DCMA infractions anyway. Have you ever gotten the infamous "hey, stop stealing shit" letter from your ISP? Do you know how many of those they'll send? Six. They will send you six warnings. After the sixth and final warning, do you know what happens?

...They stop sending you warnings. that's it. (which actually makes sense, If they're not prepared or able to level a punishment of any kind, then after 6 warnings and you're still doing it, they're just wasting paper.) Some ISPs do bandwidth throttling i think, but not all of them. ISPs aren't in the law enforcement business, and they really don't give two shits what you do with your bandwidth as long as you pay for it.

All they can really do (and they are) is crack down on the sources of pirated products (torrent sites, etc.) but those are like weeds. You get rid of one, and another pops up to fill the vacuum created by its loss. One of the major problems is that bureaucracies simply can not keep pace with the internet. It takes months if not years to fight a piracy case in court, and even if you win, there will be another site just like it on the internet the very next day. That's a war of attrition that you will simply never win.

Heh, actually, it's even worse than just whack-a-mole with the sites. See, the three things that make copyright impossible to enforce are: fast computers, fast internet and strong encryption.

I don't even think many/most people who torrent (torrenters?) use encryption, but if people aggressively started pursuing copyright infringement all over, and going after torrent sites and stuff, everyone would just move over to encrypted protocols. Then media groups will have lost the war. Just outright lost. They'd probably do best to just take advantage of new technologies, and admit that demanding payment doesn't work anymore.

I have no problem with paying creators. It's middle men who have to convince me. Because they are the ones who profit the most from copyright (and whine about it the most and fuck with it the most), not creators.

Oh, I was just pointing out that I'll buy stuff and give people money. But I've got to feel like I'm getting value for my money. Which I don't feel that's the case for most of the media I pirate. (Except trailer park boys, I totally might buy a copy of the movie, or maybe the TPB board game, which I hear is pretty rad.)

 

[Thelostcup]

I can say in all honesty that I am NOT in this category of people, and I know other authors who don't buy that 'free advertising' bullshit.

I know a few of self-published authors that use it as a tool to promote themselves. They say, "I don't care if you download this without paying, but if you like it please give me a positive review on Amazon." It seems to work for them, but everybody has their own preferences.

 

[Himawari]

I'm kind of split on this. I mean, I don't think pirating is right or should be legal, but I also think it's just kind of an inevitable, necessary evil, you know? I do think it's incredibly shitty to pirate an indie/self-published product that would cost you maybe a few days of eating slightly cheaper meals in order to afford legally, though.

Many of the things I have come to enjoy and purchase legitimately were things I pirated first. Sure, sometimes I pirate shit I end up not liking and would never consider playing money for. But I have a volume of manga sitting on the coffee table right next to me that I never would have purchased or even known existed if I hadn't pirated it first, and now it's one of my absolute favorites. Strongly considering even buying the monthly magazines it's serialized in, I love it so much. God bless pirating.

I might change my mind a bit once I actually start creating shit professionally, but whatever.

 

[Some JERK]

Heh, actually, it's even worse than just whack-a-mole with the sites. See, the three things that make copyright impossible to enforce are: fast computers, fast internet and strong encryption.

I don't even think many/most people who torrent (torrenters?) use encryption, but if people aggressively started pursuing copyright infringement all over, and going after torrent sites and stuff, everyone would just move over to encrypted protocols. Then media groups will have lost the war. Just outright lost. They'd probably do best to just take advantage of new technologies, and admit that demanding payment doesn't work anymore.

Without question. As it sits now, end users who get "busted" are only those who don't really know much about what they're doing (which, to be fair is probably a grand-percentage). If you start actually dropping the hammer, some will stop, but most will dig in like ticks and then you're screwed.

 

[A-№1]

Except trailer park boys, I totally might buy a copy of the movie, or maybe the TPB board game, which I hear is pretty rad.

Absolutely, but personally I'd prefer just handing Clattenberg and the boys a wad of cash directly. Because the owners of showcase are oligopolist dicks.

Also which movie?

 

[Marvin]

Without question. As it sits now, end users who get "busted" are only those who don't really know much about what they're doing (which, to be fair is probably a grand-percentage). If you start actually dropping the hammer, some will stop, but most will dig in like ticks and then you're screwed.

Oh, I don't even know how often they do bust people. Or even send out letters. Just personally, I pirate bunches of stuff, I'm a generous seeder, I don't use any peerblock or anything like that. I use public, well known torrent sites. Never had any problems.

Heh, for example, just to give you an idea of the scale of my torrenting, the average monthly network usage in my neighborhood was 17 GB. My average is 700 GB a month.

Absolutely, but personally I'd prefer just handing Clattenberg and the boys a wad of cash directly. Because the owners of showcase are oligopolist dicks.

Also which movie?

Oh yeah, same. I'm waiting for Don't Legalize It. I'm amazed that it's not on the internet yet. Not even a camrip. I would've thought some American would've just gone over the border to get a cam rip by now.

Maybe they've got people to keep americans out of the theaters. They might use shibboleths. Like they ask you what is the first grade in high school. "Uhh, it's 9th grade." "American! Guards, take him away!"

 

[CalmMyTits]

That's unfortunate, but times change. Making a living off of writing books might end up being infeasible. (Not that I think that's actually what's going to happen, but you've got to admit that's a possibility.)

Copyright is a benefit provided by the government to encourage stuff like what you're doing. The only thing that's happening now is that copyright is quickly becoming useless for those ends.

I'm not like Chris, thinking I'll become a billionaire off these books. I do hope that one day I might end up on the New York Times bestseller list, and I am 100 percent confident that my work is of a higher caliber than 50 Shades of Gray or Twilight. I don't profess to be as good as... I don't know, J.R.R. Tolkien or G.R.R. Martin, but I do work very hard on my stories and am currently working on my next book.

Yes, I do want to earn a income off my writing, but I think any person would want to see some compensation for the time and effort they put into their product. I enjoy writing and telling stories, and I am an avid reader of books. Books have always been a huge part of my life but it's not until last year that I actually published a book of my own. I am a practical person and while people are welcome to read my fanfiction for free (which is how I found my passion for writing) I also want to be able to make money off my writing, and have the nice feeling of security at having this additional source of income, regardless of how big that revenue stream is. Many people will never be able to quit their day jobs and pursue their passion full-time but that doesn't mean that they don't deserve fair compensation for their efforts.

 

[Jewelsmakerguy]

Honestly, I've never really bothered (illegally) downloading software or games (not much of a gamer and all). I can see where the stance may be on movies and music, but if something is physically out of print and you can't find it anywhere. Then you should feel obligated to get it through outside means. I also think books and unlicensed (or out of print) anime are fair game. The problem, in my eyes, is when that's all you do. Hell, I've done it plenty of times too, but I still buy movies and books (usually second hand since it's cheaper and all, but I like to own a physical copy most of the time).

Though this is coming from a Canadian, where our laws towards piracy are a little different to America. So who am I to say?

 

[Pikonic]

I know the thread says "media", but if we extend this to cover software as well, how many of us have actually paid for things like Photoshop, Flash dev kit, Sony Vegas, or Illustrator?

Edited title for software.

 

[TrippinKahlua]

Pirating is very much alive where I live. Music, DVDs, even Satellite cards are on the Black Market. I don't know how they get away with it, but its a way of life here. I don't support it though, because I like actual quality work and movies and content that are actually watchable. My sister acquired a pirated version of Shrek 2, and everything was horrible. The characters all looked like they were made of wood, and the audio had a lot of reverberation.

The last DVD I bought that was pirated was Seed of Chucky, and the basic atrociousness of that film surely helped contribute my decision to never buy from these street DVD vendors again.

Everything is official, factory made now.

 

[Marvin]

I'm not like Chris, thinking I'll become a billionaire off these books. I do hope that one day I might end up on the New York Times bestseller list, and I am 100 percent confident that my work is of a higher caliber than 50 Shades of Gray or Twilight. I don't profess to be as good as... I don't know, J.R.R. Tolkien or G.R.R. Martin, but I do work very hard on my stories and am currently working on my next book.

Yes, I do want to earn a income off my writing, but I think any person would want to see some compensation for the time and effort they put into their product. I enjoy writing and telling stories, and I am an avid reader of books. Books have always been a huge part of my life but it's not until last year that I actually published a book of my own. I am a practical person and while people are welcome to read my fanfiction for free (which is how I found my passion for writing) I also want to be able to make money off my writing, and have the nice feeling of security at having this additional source of income, regardless of how big that revenue stream is. Many people will never be able to quit their day jobs and pursue their passion full-time but that doesn't mean that they don't deserve fair compensation for their efforts.

Oh no, I'm sure you're being very reasonable. I'm just saying that creators are losing the ability to demand payment. They can't control their works anymore. The best they can do now is put content out and hope people like it enough to where they have dedicated fans.

Of course, people want compensation, but ultimately, it might just not be feasible for everyone to live off of their hobbies. Heh, I might have to get a job as a cashier someplace soon to pay the bills.

I'm reminded of how the other day I was on the bus, and the woman next to me was reading a romance novel entitled Life After a Balla. The author seems to be getting a fanbase.

 

[Dr. Meme]

I'm personally terrified that if I pirate stuff something like this will happen to me.

 

[Watcher]

We think there is a fundamental misconception about piracy. Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem, If a pirate offers a product anywhere in the world, 24 x 7, purchasable from the convenience of your personal computer, and the legal provider says the product is region-locked, will come to your country 3 months after the US release, and can only be purchased at a brick and mortar store, then the pirate's service is more valuable.

Prior to entering the Russian market, we were told that Russia was a waste of time because everyone would pirate our products. Russia is now about to become [Steam's] largest market in Europe,

I've always liked digital distribution ever since I was a kid. Mostly because I remember reading in magazines when I was a kid about games that everyone seemed to play. Like "Doom" or "Half Life". But I could never find those games in stores, and wasn't old enough to buy things off Ebay. Even when I got older buying stuff on Ebay would always be a hassle since I'd have to pay for shipping and wait like a week or two since I live in a different country than the US.

With a digital distribution client like Steam. I can buy a game like Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition for 5$ and it takes 20 minutes for it to download to my PC.

 

[Some JERK]

Oh, I don't even know how often they do bust people. Or even send out letters. Just personally, I pirate bunches of stuff, I'm a generous seeder, I don't use any peerblock or anything like that. I use public, well known torrent sites. Never had any problems.

Heh, for example, just to give you an idea of the scale of my torrenting, the average monthly network usage in my neighborhood was 17 GB. My average is 700 GB a month.

It's kinda like jury duty. I dated someone whose father was the head of the county public defender's office, and had also been a district attorney at one point. One day I asked him about it. Basically he said this: "We send out X amount of jury duty notices. Usually about 2 or 3 times as many as we need. Of this, we expect about 25% to reply. of the 75% who don't even bother to show up, we pick out about 10% to recontact. If you ever get recontacted then don't even think about ignoring it again, because you're on the shitlist now, and they will come after you at that point. But the odds are, you could probably go your entire life throwing every jury duty notice straight into the trash, and nothing will ever happen." (And i've done just that my entire adult life, and not a thing has ever come of it.)

I suspect that DMCA penalties are a lot like that. They single out a few people out of the vast ocean of violators and go after them. But odds are you'll never even get a "Stop that" letter from your ISP.

 

[Marvin]

It's kinda like jury duty. I dated someone whose father was the head of the county public defender's office, and had also been a district attorney at one point. One day I asked him about it. Basically he said this: "We send out X amount of jury duty notices. Usually about 2 or 3 times as many as we need. Of this, we expect about 25% to reply. of the 75% who don't even bother to show up, we pick out about 10% to recontact. If you ever get recontacted then don't even think about ignoring it again, because you're on the shitlist now, and they will come after you at that point. But the odds are, you could probably go your entire life throwing every jury duty notice straight into the trash, and nothing will ever happen." (And i've done just that my entire adult life, and not a thing has ever come of it.)

I suspect that DCMA penalties are a lot like that. They single out a few people out of the vast ocean of violators and go after them. But odds are you'll never even get a "Stop that" letter from your ISP.

Haha, speak of the devil, I just got a letter from selective service. They confirmed my address update I filed a bit ago, and I got a little wallet sized "confirmation" that I registered. Heh, like shit, where will that be useful? Am I out, getting grilled by SS officials confirming that I registered on the street? Sir, show us your papers, or you'll be taken to jail to confirm your SS registration! Haha, damn.

 

[exball]

I realize if I bothered I probably would pirate stuff but torrenting sounds like it takes a lot of time and I'm fucking lazy.

 

[Cute Anime Girl]

I'm personally terrified that if I pirate stuff something like this will happen to me.

Nah, what you really need to worry about is DP coming after you.