Plurals / Clusters / Systems - Pronouns: we / us / ours

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I love how the mental and physical agony of losing a finger is second to the euphoria of 'OMG new stimming method!' Someone get this bitch to a nunnery stat
She immediately started going off about being an amputee, jesus.

You know, I understand coping by talking about it or making light of it. I saw a girl who lost a foot to an illness, and she went and got it preserved by having it defleshed. So now she just has a skeleton foot she takes with her on travels and posts every now and then about it. She took an unfortunate accident with humor to help others laugh a bit too. I think that's a much better way to talk about your amputation than 'uwu i'm an amputee now! phantom limb stimming!'.
 
Ok, just to carry over the discussion from the Chloe/Nan thread:

How do you guys feel about DID being a valid diagnosis? If it is removed from the DSM, what would cases be potentially reclassified as?

Also, only slightly off topic: when the fuck is DID Mom going to have her goddamn kids taken away?
 
How do you guys feel about DID being a valid diagnosis? If it is removed from the DSM, what would cases be potentially reclassified as?
I think it's real. But it manifests entirely differently (obviously) than what people on youtube and such portray it as. from all the research articles, studies, etc., I've read, researchers agree that it's not multiple personalities in one body (hence part why MPD isn't used anymore), but a single personality that didn't fully come together due to repeated trauma, inattentive/unreliable/so on caregivers, and such. Especially in people who have other neurodevelopmental problems (e.g., ADHD or autism), because they don't process the world the same way as the average person, from studies and anecdotal evidence, I personally think it makes them more likely to form a dissociative disorder, whether that's PTSD, C-PTSD, DID, OSDD, etc., and also because people just tend to treat people like that like shit anyway (because, you know, screaming at your autist child is okay but screaming at your normal child is child abuse).

With all the lack of mental healthcare in America -- which is where I noticed a lot of these "systems" come from -- and elsewhere, people rely on self-help and latch onto anything that vaguely fits the description of their symptoms, as well seem to forget that sometimes there is no one-size-fits-all answer for their symptoms (i.e., just look at all the addendums to major depressive disorder) and neglect to acknowledge that sometimes the "nastier" answers might just be it (e.g., NPD, HPD, schizophrenia, schizoaffective, BPD, etc.).

It's DEFINITELY not NEARLY as common as these youtubers are touting. I think they're mixing up that 1-3% statistic with the fact that 1-3% of people have a dissociative disorder (which likely isn't accurate anyway). PTSD/C-PTSD by itself or mixed with BPD or another personality disorder can do some wack things to the brain. An unstable sense of identity can be a bitch to figure out and deal with. With that, if it were removed from the DSM, I think it would be reclassified as a subclass to BPD, since BPD is SO comorbid with DID as it is, or a subclass to C-PTSD, or a mix of both.

This study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4579511/ is a really cool read, and the linked/referenced articles on the bottom. For any studies that are hidden behind paywall, check out sci-hub to break past those paywalls. ;)
 
I don't think I have as many caps as I think. on this topic...
 

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Ok, just to carry over the discussion from the Chloe/Nan thread:

How do you guys feel about DID being a valid diagnosis? If it is removed from the DSM, what would cases be potentially reclassified as?

Also, only slightly off topic: when the fuck is DID Mom going to have her goddamn kids taken away?
Imo DID is real but rare and the dx is abused by DID literate docs in the same way that lyme is abused by lyme literate docs. This current uptake of DID trenders is the 2020 version of 3000 genders and think we're going to see a lot more people claiming DID.
 
becoming "plural" on... purpose? Why? According to psychiatric literature it only comes across if you've received severe (usually sexual) trauma before the age of 5

(I know why.)

because it makes your life seem "enchanted", and not being alone. that maybe it could be "fun'. and of course "being special and different"

that the experience makes the world a bit less boring.

what are the chances some of these people are trolling? I could see my self asking these "we're here to help and support" things, or just pushing the limmits, to see if they will be "oh god no, we take everything we ever told anyone back"

guy asks how to do something nice for the girlfriend he shares a brain with, I'd ask the same people "the teen who lives in my head wants a relationship with me, but I might be to old...should I let him?"
 
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The common sentiment that discovering you're trans "feels the same" as discovering you are plural is extremely telling.

It feels like the logical extension of that feeling you get when you take a personality test and allow your imagination to run wild about the result. Maybe I'm really more intuitive than everyone in the whole world and that's why I don't fit in, maybe I'm something new and undefined...

At least being trans rests on a normal human thought, "what if I were born the opposite sex? would I be happier?" Autism conjures for the concept of sex all kinds of baggage and transness becomes a must to avert puberty.

Being plural rests on "if nobody can hear my internal monologue then I need to minmax the amount of stupid bullshit I process every day in order to be more than other people." That's not normal, it's high end designer narcissism. Plenty of kids have that phase in school where they realize they can get attention by asserting they're a Transformer in disguise, but only true blue narcissists will cling to that method.
 
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How many of you want to bet this is a dox fail and these headm-te freaks are doxing discord accounts to lure people from twitter into their chat room?

Update: Luring kids into discords and private chats again. The "l-ttles" are out in force.
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Hey Twitter troon. If you really do have the dox give it to me. Create a farms account and DM me.
should I tell my doctors I have dark machinations of wanting to spam their discord with innaproperate things? because I think it would be a game? I mean, if they are plurals, if I do it to them, I'll just blame it on a personified part of my self, and scapegoat that character.
 
The common sentiment that discovering you're trans "feels the same" as discovering you are plural is extremely telling.

It feels like the logical extension of that feeling you get when you take a personality test and allow your imagination to run wild about the result. Maybe I'm really more intuitive than everyone in the whole world and that's why I don't fit in, maybe I'm something new and undefined...

At least being trans rests on a normal human thought, "what if I were born the opposite sex? would I be happier?" Autism conjures for the concept of sex all kinds of baggage and transness becomes a must to avert puberty.

Being plural rests on "if nobody can hear my internal monologue then I need to minmax the amount of stupid bullshit I process every day in order to be more than other people." That's not normal, it's high end designer narcissism. Plenty of kids have that phase in school where they realize they can get attention by asserting they're a Transformer in disguise, but only true blue narcissists will cling to that method.
Really like how you’ve put this.

It’s definitely easier to forgive teenagers for this shit, but when it continues into adulthood it’s clear this person is batshit. Sadly though, I do think we are going to see a couple kids who grow up deluding themselves into thinking they have it and it’s not until their 20’s or 30’s when they realized they’ve been duped. By then they may have spent thousands of dollars, dozens of hours, and countless opportunities all on a delusion.

I’ve heard stories of relationships where an abuser will make the other person believe they’re plural and groom those personalities to be what they want. You think it’s all made up until you see the screenshots. These people target the young and impressionable, the ones who can be manipulated easily. It is cult like. It is terrifying.
 
The common sentiment that discovering you're trans "feels the same" as discovering you are plural is extremely telling.

This is exactly something that has bothered me. Not to mention how so many "endogenic systems" will call people who don't believe in them "traumascum," a portmanteau of "truscum" (meaning someone who believes you have to have dysphoria and want to medically transition to be trans) and trauma. It may take until teenagerdom/adulthood to realize that one is trans, especially if one's never even heard of what it is until then, and put those pieces together, but putting those pieces together from childhood to connect dots and be like "lol i am opposite gender" vs. putting together pieces of trauma are vastly different from one another; one comes from a neurobiological disconnect (to put it plainly) and the other comes from uncovering trauma, whether through therapy or on accident. The main people I see who like to say it "feels the same" are these endogenic systems, which are a next level special of rubbing shit in the face of actual trauma survivors.
 
Really like how you’ve put this.

It’s definitely easier to forgive teenagers for this shit, but when it continues into adulthood it’s clear this person is batshit. Sadly though, I do think we are going to see a couple kids who grow up deluding themselves into thinking they have it and it’s not until their 20’s or 30’s when they realized they’ve been duped. By then they may have spent thousands of dollars, dozens of hours, and countless opportunities all on a delusion.

I’ve heard stories of relationships where an abuser will make the other person believe they’re plural and groom those personalities to be what they want. You think it’s all made up until you see the screenshots. These people target the young and impressionable, the ones who can be manipulated easily. It is cult like. It is terrifying.
Oh no, we're already there. It feels like it's entirely the wheelhouse of fully-transitioned men and bored cat ladies, but there are plenty of adult plurals. It's kind of awful when it reaches that stage, because they become capable and with finances and time start trying to exert influence.
Jaret Ross (protomagicalgirl aka @doublegearsys) and @squidlarkin are further reading, there. I think if you gave either of them the kind of following that @caseyexplosion has we'd have a plural testifying before the UN before 2030.
 
different topic but I remember hearing that you could see DID in brain scans, either in Chloes videos or somewhere else.. sooooo.. wouldn't psychatrist/neurologists order that kind of stuff to determine if the patient really suffer from it or am I just too simpleminded lol.

could probably check if someone is faking with it tho, I assume.
I've heard this too - do they ever provide where this is from? I've only heard of it but I guess I never thought to look deeper into it. If so, my guess would be it'd be "too much work and money" for all the self-diagnosing children still begging their parents to accept their Rainbow Dash persecutor.
I found these two studies.

Conclusions: The findings are at odds with the idea that differences among different types of dissociative identity states in DID can be explained by high fantasy proneness, motivated role-enactment, and suggestion. They indicate that DID does not have a sociocultural (e.g., iatrogenic) origin.

Conclusions: We propose a pattern of neuroimaging biomarkers that could be used to inform the identification of individuals with DID from healthy controls at the individual level. This is important and clinically relevant because the DID diagnosis is controversial and individuals with DID are often misdiagnosed. Ultimately, the application of pattern recognition methodologies could prevent unnecessary suffering of individuals with DID because of an earlier accurate diagnosis, which will facilitate faster and targeted interventions.


A quick search on DissociaDID channel comes up with "IS DISSOCIATIVE IDENTITY DISORDER REAL?! | SCIENCE & PROOF | Debunking DID EP: 7" which cites 5 more papers under the spoiler (several of these studies are co-authored by the same people, particularly Antje A. T. S. Reinders who co-authored 4 of the 7 papers linked. Maybe this is normal with such a niche topic but thought it might be worth noting).
Conclusions:
Dissociative disorders have been linked to psychological trauma and stress in a variety of cultures. The advent of functional brain imaging techniques and newer sophisticated structural brain imaging methods has considerably improved and will continue to further our understanding of the neurobiological underpinnings of these conditions. The use of these techniques has shown that environmentally-driven alterations of cognition, perception, behavior and self-related processing are accompanied by metabolic and probably even structural brain changes. These findings have called into questioning the strict traditional dichotomy between neurological-organic and psychiatric-mind based illnesses and prompted several researchers and clinicians from both psychiatry and neurology fields to advocate for moving beyond this dichotomy, by abandoning the organic-functional distinction from formal classification systems or everyday medical jargon. As Pietro Pietrini stated in 2003 in the American Journal of Psychiatry (p. 1908): “It was not long ago that psychiatric disorders were grossly classified as ‘organic’ and ‘functional’ according to whether there was a known brain structural alteration (e.g., dementia) or not (e.g., depression or schizophrenia). This merely reflected our inability to go beyond what could be visible to the naked eye in the brain. Functional brain studies ... have given us a powerful microscope to dissect the intimate molecular aspects of brain function.”

Conclusions:
The IM provides a useful beginning to quantify and study integration and fragmentation in DID. Directions for future research are also discussed, including expanding the IM from this pilot. The IM may be useful in treatment settings to assess progress or change over time.

Conclusions:
DID involves dissociative part-dependent resting-state differences. Compared to ANP, EP activated brain structures involved in self-referencing and sensorimotor actions more. Actors had different perfusion patterns compared to genuine ANP and EP. Comparisons of neural activity for individuals with DID and non-DID simulating controls suggest that the resting-state features of ANP and EP in DID are not due to imagination. The findings are consistent with TSDP and inconsistent with the idea that DID is caused by suggestion, fantasy proneness, and role-playing.


I know jack shit about neuroimaging or how to read and assess this kind of research. I don't understand half of the terminology used. It could be bunk, it could be decent, and Chloe could certainly be misreading and twisting the information to suit herself.

Post and formatting was bad when I first posted, hopefully this is better.
 
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I found these two studies.

Conclusions: The findings are at odds with the idea that differences among different types of dissociative identity states in DID can be explained by high fantasy proneness, motivated role-enactment, and suggestion. They indicate that DID does not have a sociocultural (e.g., iatrogenic) origin.

Conclusions: We propose a pattern of neuroimaging biomarkers that could be used to inform the identification of individuals with DID from healthy controls at the individual level. This is important and clinically relevant because the DID diagnosis is controversial and individuals with DID are often misdiagnosed. Ultimately, the application of pattern recognition methodologies could prevent unnecessary suffering of individuals with DID because of an earlier accurate diagnosis, which will facilitate faster and targeted interventions.


A quick search on DissociaDID channel comes up with "IS DISSOCIATIVE IDENTITY DISORDER REAL?! | SCIENCE & PROOF | Debunking DID EP: 7" which cites 5 more papers under the spoiler (several of these studies are co-authored by the same people, particularly Antje A. T. S. Reinders who co-authored 4 of the 7 papers linked. Maybe this is normal with such a niche topic but thought it might be worth noting).
Conclusions:
Dissociative disorders have been linked to psychological trauma and stress in a variety of cultures. The advent of functional brain imaging techniques and newer sophisticated structural brain imaging methods has considerably improved and will continue to further our understanding of the neurobiological underpinnings of these conditions. The use of these techniques has shown that environmentally-driven alterations of cognition, perception, behavior and self-related processing are accompanied by metabolic and probably even structural brain changes. These findings have called into questioning the strict traditional dichotomy between neurological-organic and psychiatric-mind based illnesses and prompted several researchers and clinicians from both psychiatry and neurology fields to advocate for moving beyond this dichotomy, by abandoning the organic-functional distinction from formal classification systems or everyday medical jargon. As Pietro Pietrini stated in 2003 in the American Journal of Psychiatry (p. 1908): “It was not long ago that psychiatric disorders were grossly classified as ‘organic’ and ‘functional’ according to whether there was a known brain structural alteration (e.g., dementia) or not (e.g., depression or schizophrenia). This merely reflected our inability to go beyond what could be visible to the naked eye in the brain. Functional brain studies ... have given us a powerful microscope to dissect the intimate molecular aspects of brain function.”

Conclusions:
The IM provides a useful beginning to quantify and study integration and fragmentation in DID. Directions for future research are also discussed, including expanding the IM from this pilot. The IM may be useful in treatment settings to assess progress or change over time.

Conclusions:
DID involves dissociative part-dependent resting-state differences. Compared to ANP, EP activated brain structures involved in self-referencing and sensorimotor actions more. Actors had different perfusion patterns compared to genuine ANP and EP. Comparisons of neural activity for individuals with DID and non-DID simulating controls suggest that the resting-state features of ANP and EP in DID are not due to imagination. The findings are consistent with TSDP and inconsistent with the idea that DID is caused by suggestion, fantasy proneness, and role-playing.


I know jack shit about neuroimaging or how to read and assess this kind of research. I don't understand half of the terminology used. It could be bunk, it could be decent, and Chloe could certainly be misreading and twisting the information to suit herself.

Post and formatting was bad when I first posted, hopefully this is better.


The same research was done on actors/actresses

Brain scans show that actors lose their ‘sense of self’ when taking on a role
Sometimes, the character can take over the brain.
 
Screenshot_20200417-030515.pngScreenshot_20200417-030156.png
So this specimen has already started fleshing out her carbon copy of Chloe/Nin.

As far as her insta goes, their Nin came to be due to the calling out of a pedo. Nin is understably upset by it. And yet AND YET she had the time and awareness to create an entire Spotify playlist full of smash hits such as Katy Perry - Last Friday Night (though she wasnt even alive last Friday)

EDIT: for background, this system also has an alter called Toothless. Yes. Toothless the fictional dragon.
It makes me so sad to see that this woman has infected the minds of fucked up kids man.
WHERE ARE THEIR PARENTS? oh yeah, too busy abusing them.

https://archive.li/K2VII
IMG_20200417_162401.png

Chloe is literally validating and confirming this person's delusions.
I. Can't. Do. This. Any. More
 
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If it is removed from the DSM, what would cases be potentially reclassified as?

Among potential explanations for this phenomenon in people who have actually been traumatized in some way, some name BPD, as there appears to be a large overlap between diagnoses. Wikipedia will tell you that "75% of patients with BPD meet the criteria for DID". Make of that what you will. If you mean the larpers on social media, my personal bet would land on being spoiled children.
 
I honestly think that if DID is real, the only person who seems to actually have it (from the ones I have looked at) is Trisha's ex-girlfriend. She only has 2 alters (as far as I know) and one is a child alter while the other one is a trauma holder / protector. I feel like 2-3 or maybe at maximum 5 alters is how this disorder would work. It wouldn't be like "Oh yeah, I have 500 human alters and 300 fragments and 30 dead alters as well as 20 animal ones"
 
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