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- May 9, 2017
Quick question from someone extremely out of the loop but feeling nostalgic. The whole physical/special attack split thing. Is that in Heart Gold/Soul Silver, or not?
Pokémon (Not-So) Griefing Thread - Scarlet and Violet Released with 10 Million Copies in First 3 Days in Buggy States
- Thread starter Bugaboo
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- Jan 31, 2013
The split was made in Diamond and Pearl, the first Gen IV games and first games on the Nintendo DS. So yes, HGSS have the split.
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- May 13, 2019
OH BOY TIME TO TARD RAGE OVER LUGIA AGAIN.
Lugia to this day irks me with its forced popularity. None of its lore and worldbuilding really makes any sense. First of all, why is it the trio master of the Kanto birds? Absolutely nothing in the main series gives an reason for it unlike Ho-oh who literally resurrected its charges.
Also there's the incongruity of it allegedly being the "guardian of the seas" yet all the thing does is sleep at the bottom of a random cave and seems to just cause storms when it's pissed or something. Compare this to Kyogre the very next gen who truly is the master of the oceans and physically proved it during the actual story by nearly flooding the entire fucking region (not to mention it actually has the proper damn type for its title and none of this Psychic/Flying nonsense).
But none of this matters because in the end, it was the one who got the favoritism, not Ho-oh. Ask Lugia fans the reasons why its one of their favorites and 99% of the time they'll cite the second movie before anything else (and to a lesser extend XD: Gale of Darkness), oftentimes barely even mentioning much about the Pokemon itself on its own merits (and if they do it's because the person is a furfag because for some reason Lugia is extremely popular with those fucks).
All Ho-oh got was a split-second cameo in the first episode and one actual movie years later and even then it had most of its screentime stolen by the token mythical of the month. No justice I tell you.
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- Mar 11, 2019
I sort of agree in the sense that the anime series became way too influential and detrimental to the overall brand for its own good. What sort of ends up being lost between the lines is that the first four gens were always slightly fantastical interpretations of Japan, so there are a few images floating around the internet (I haven’t seen it since mind you) of a completely inaccurate “PokéEarth” that just throws all the game regions (spinoffs included) in hodgepodge areas without reference to a proper atlas.
That and Team Rocket’s now the most comedic and lighthearted interpretation or depiction of Japanese yakuza I’ve seen in any piece of modern culture.
I can’t even tell what Rainbow Rocket or GO Rocket is supposed to be.
EDIT: And there’s Pokedollar economy being relentlessly mocked in online “game humor” parodies for the longest amount of time before people started to realize it really corresponded to JPY instead of USD, but that might be an international observation.
EDIT2: Did a cursory search on Lugia to refresh my memory. Lugia was always intended to have debuted in the second movie and was created for that movie alone, but like Ho-Oh, a literal mythological phoenix, Lugia was supposed to be a dragon counterpart (though it ended up with Psy/Fly due to limitations). Lugia has vague conceptual origins in the Shintō sea patron deity Ryujin, as well as Watatsumi, considered by some believers to be the same god. I think it should be reiterated though that in the Pokémon world, “gods” are treated in the pluralistic sense along the interpretation of divine kami and demonic yōkai, which is why creator deities (Dialga and Palkia, representative stand-ins for Shintō creator gods Izanagi and Izanami respectively) can co-exist along side Pokémon like Mew (representative of a cryptid with links to ancestral and prehistoric life) and Arceus (representative of the bodhisattvic concept of absolution and an amalgamation of the general concept of creator god).
Kyogre existing as a primordial entity with the ability to create and destroy through waves is a possible reference to the Beast Leviathan of Hebrew scripture. In-universe though, both Groudon and Kyogre have been inactive for some time, so they’d be unable to act in any real capacity.
The real question you should be raising is where Manaphy fits into any of this since it’s an abomination that doesn’t really have any cryptozoological or mythological origin and yet has movie ties to Kyogre.
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Honka Honka Burning Love
In Clown World, the only god is the one who Honks.
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
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- Aug 29, 2019
The answer you are looking for is that Ho-oh has a pretty common typing, one that isn't super great and it didn't get a good Hidden ability until Gen 5 so it had to live through..basically getting completely fucked in the ass by Stealth Rock's existence.
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2013
To be fair on Lugia's lore, Lugia was designed for the second movie, and not by Game Freak themselves. They made it to be an anime-original Pokemon. Ho-oh was originally the mascot for both Gold and Silver according the the 1997 Beta of the game, Lugia or anything resembling a counterpart didn't exist. Even the person that made Lugia was surprised Game Freak decided to add it to the game as a "real" Pokemon. It was basically the same deal years later with Battle Bond Greninja, but in that case they approached Game Freak to deisign Ash-Greninja for them to give Ash a super-special anime-only(at the time) form.
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- May 13, 2019
At least, come Crown Tundra, it will be better than ever before. Between being able to give any Ho-oh Regenerator (so event-exclusive moves won't be locked behind Pressure) and Heavy-Duty Boots on top of the Defog capability it already got last gen, it will be one of the best Uber mons.
Really? First I've heard of this, definitely would explain a lot though.
Honka Honka Burning Love
In Clown World, the only god is the one who Honks.
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2019
I mean Regenerator is what makes Ho-oh not terrible, it spent 2 Generations being wholly unable to switch out if Stealth Rocks are on the field, sure Lugia takes extra damage too but it is a little bit more bulky than Ho-oh is.
Also there is the fact that Moltres is also Fire/Flying so..Ho-oh is just sort of "Moltres' big brother" except with (when Silver came out) worse stats because Sacred Flame was a special attack..and Moltres has a slightly higher special attack than Ho-oh, and hey as much as you think Lugia being a mascot is strange at least Lugia is a good pokemon. Lucario is probably the dumbest "pushed mascot" they had, If only because he got cucked by Heracross of all things.
TDLR : Pokemon has always been completely fucked up and always will be. That is part of the reason I think the REEEEing about how "Bad" sword and shield was around here is hilarious. Every generation has had something completely fucked about it.
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- Jun 12, 2019
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- Dec 17, 2019
Before I played Sapphire, I saw the designs for Latios & Latias shortly after Gen 3 came out and learned they were Psychic-Dragon. The Psychic + design + name (3 syllables, all beginning with "L") made me totally think they were going to have some connection to Lugia.
I was wrong and disappointed I couldn't catch any of the good Johto Pokemon in the game, Lugia included.
I was wrong and disappointed I couldn't catch any of the good Johto Pokemon in the game, Lugia included.
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2019
I guess if you look at it from a purely mechanical perspective yes, Ho-oh is a terribly designed mon kit-wise, but I maintain that Pokémon was never really meant to continue “competitively” past Gen 2, especially after Tajiri “retiring” upstairs to executive and the main development team scrambling to cobble together what remained of the formula to crank out something profitable.
Normally, I wouldn't have any problem with this line of logic, but for the sake of argument, Game Freak really fucked up by introducing the physical/special split in the first place.
A lot of these robust changes to the more intricate systems are more or less the responsibility of the battle programmer, who for the longest time has been Morimoto, I think. Egg move additions, TM indexing, changes in game mechanics, etc. All of those are his responsibility, and quite frankly it's in my personal opinion that he's been the heart of the machine cranking out QoL after QoL addition in each iterative entry.
You also have to remember though that Tajiri originally envisioned Pokémon as a one-and-done entry in a similar style to Dragon Quest, and Gold and Silver only happened due to unforseen demand, as well as their new media franchise blowing up. Especially considering just how unorganized GS was early in development and how much it changed after the Spaceworld '97 build alone thanks to just high ambitions all around, they barely made release date and were forced to scale down the scope of Gen 2 to accommodate.
Game Freak has at this point more than 20+ years of experience developing this series; Morimoto's pouring in double-time as the mechanics programmer, but it's on the conceptual and creative team (i.e. Masuda and co.) to actually draft up the roster for each entry. Now that Sword and Shield have been long past their honeymoon period, and especially being a Switch game, I think it's perfectly justified for people to voice their complaints about the game since with hindsight it's more obvious than ever that SwSh was planned to be a mediocre entry instead of an engaging one. Even Masuda himself has voiced distaste for continuing the series, going on record that the studio treats Pokémon more like a contractual obligation rather than a fun game; I assume the planning team comes up with the creative ideas and pitches them raw without much filtering these days considering all the guest artists drafted to work on the series; that's probably their idea of the most "fun" they can get out of developing what's now become a chore.
My problem with what you said lies not with that "it's fucked regardless" since that's pretty much subjective as is, but rather that "it's fucked because it's obvious now that the franchise literally does not have any clear direction apart from rehashing the formula and only iterates enough to constitute a new installment." A casual observer like me couldn't give two shits about programming nuances and bugs as long as it's not a regular occurrence or a complete detriment to the overall experience. The same can't be said about just a frustratingly obvious lack of cohesive creative direction and growingly-obvious symptoms of poor long-term planning (Bank, Home, GO as a service, DLC models, cut content, removal of QoL that could've been persistent).
We've looped completely around from GO being a mindless spinoff that wasn't supposed to last long past the initial 151 to a game that has the potential to outlast whole generations and has better longevity than the actual main games that are supposed to draw in the numbers by sheer virtue of drip-feeding content in an F2P game.
I don't think the prospect of eternally condemning your cashcow franchise to a heavily dumbed-down games-as-a-service mobile game is appealing to anyone, and anyone remotely paying attention to the community shitshow that happened during LGPE would've picked up on it too.
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2017
Already was answered with Kyogre being in deep hibernation which makes sense, but I was under the impression it was the seas surrounding Johto and Kanto that Lugia was the guardian of. It never made sense for it to be the guardian of all the oceans, but having its territory be in one part of the world wasn't too out of the ordinary.
Had no idea Lugia was anime-only originally, though. That's actually pretty neat.
I still remember when the eighth movie came out that people were going "ZOMG IT'S HO-OH, FINALLY" only for it to turn out it was Mew Transformed as Ho-Oh. Like I ain't even mad about that cop-out, but it still sucked we had to wait longer to get Ho-Oh a movie--only for it to not really be a Ho-Oh movie. Lugia's role was hilariously small in "The Power of Us", but at least it had a connection to the setting. Couldn't tell you what Ho-Oh's role in "I Choose You" was even supposed to be.
I wish Lugia and Ho-Oh had themselves a proper battle, though. I'm still mad that the 13th movie teaser trailer had that but it was just to promote the remakes and not be a movie itself. I just want some Legendary clashes again, dammit.
Anyhoo yeah, I'll be that Pokéfag who says she was happy she got Silver for Christmas because of Lugia, but I still wish I had Gold as well. I just really loved Johto in general, would've been great to have gotten another version. (Although if we had waited another year, perhaps my brothers could've gotten Gold and Crystal for themselves like how we had Red, Blue and Yellow between us. Oh well, least the remakes were so well-done.)
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- Jun 12, 2019
From what I could tell, it was just to give Ash a plot device feather. Not even sure I could even call it that.
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- May 13, 2019
I did watch the movie recently since it was on Netflix. From what I remember it's like a really bastardized redo of the first season with random new characters taking the place of Brock/Misty. All Ho-oh was there for is so Ash could battle it as a reward after "proving he is pure" or some shit. But they had to spend half an hour dealing with Marshadow first because that's what the movies have really been for ever since the 4th one, an excuse to showboat whatever the most current mythical gimmickmon is.
On an unrelated note I saw the Zeraora one too. Thought it was a only slightly better (which isn't saying much) but I did really like this one subplot about a compulsive liar character who acts like he's the greatest trainer ever to impress his niece when it reality the dude's never had a single Pokemon. Over the course of the story a Sudowoodo (a mon that "lies" about its appearance) follows him around and becomes his first Pokemon in the end.
idk, just thought that kind of thematic storytelling was neat with using a Pokemon's design and lore to reflect on a character's growth as a person. I'm sure that kind of thing happens in the show all the time but I haven't seen any of it in years so that little plot beat stuck out to me is all.
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- Jan 12, 2017
Callahan really was the best part of the movie. I really took a liking to him even before his emotional high with Sudowoodo. Harriet, the old lady, was the second-funniest character to me, it's just the way the Pokemon gravitated toward her when she wanted nothing to do with them, The movie was interesting, to say the least. It juggled a lot of characters, but I didn't hate any of them even if I can't remember their names without looking them up. In fact, I was actually happy to see that Team Rocket finally did something fitting for this movie after being useless props for the last several entries.
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- Sep 12, 2017
Saying that “Ho-Oh sucked in Gen 4 because of Stealth Rock” is just blatantly false. Obviously the massive Stealth Rock weakness hurts quite a bit, but Ho-Oh still had a good amount of stuff going for it that made it good in Gen 4 Ubers. For one, Sacred Fire becoming a Physical Move was obviously a godsend, and its newfound access to Brave Bird made that even better. There were only 2 Relevant Pokemon that resisted Fire and Flying (Heatran and Tyranitar), both of which could be dealt with if you choose to run Earthquake. It having the same Special Bulk as Lugia also meant that Substitute + Roost sets were pretty good as well.
It was okay in Gen 2 as well (Yes Moltres was stronger on the Special Side, but pure Special Attackers were quite few and far between in Gen 2 solely because of Snorlax (Snorlax was extremely fucking retarded in Gen 2). Ho-Oh was also a lot bulkier and had a better movepool than Moltres). Gen 3 is really the only generation it actually sucked in.
Although putting all that aside, seeing as how Pokemon at it's heart (especially in the early days) is primarily a casual game, I don't think competitive viability has too much impact to determine how well designed a Pokemon is. Plenty of Pokemon can still have interesting designs, but not be good in Compettive, and plenty of Pokemon who are good in competitive can be extremely bland.
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Vapewizard
kiwifarms.net
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- Oct 22, 2019
This reminds me of how after Chugga's Rescue team DX let's play someone designed a mega Delcatty and people pointed out that even with 100 extra base stats Delcatty would still suck in the maingame. Poor thing.
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- Jul 15, 2017
Since this was mentioned earlier, I also wanted to add another instance of forced popularity, though as far as I can recall, failed pretty badly.
Zorua/Zoroark were initially promoted as the first designs for Black & White, and had their accompanying movie to boot. Purpose-wise, it was another take on Lucario, and doubling down on its forced popularity.
Zorua/Zoroark were initially promoted as the first designs for Black & White, and had their accompanying movie to boot. Purpose-wise, it was another take on Lucario, and doubling down on its forced popularity.
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2014
At this point I'd take a subpar game with boring mon if any and all lore had to be sought out and could be ignored instead of pelting you in the face like a dodge ball.