Feedback Poll: Self-Promotion

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Allow self-promotion in relevant discussion?

  • Yes

    Votes: 2,401 80.1%

  • No

    Votes: 598 19.9%
  • Total voters
    2,999
Normally I'm against blatant self-promotion on forums, but KF is exceptional.

If a creator of a relevant product / service / media / crowdfunding campaign is happy to paint a target on their back and act as cannon fodder for the Farms, I say let them. The more people there are who are willing to out themselves as KF users, the more trannies might start getting the message that people are not as afraid of them now as they were a couple of years ago.

It also gives existing Farmers an opportunity to support those who have the cojones to publicly out themselves as KF users (even if it's just temporary in the interests of self-promotion) by supporting the product / service / media / crowdfunding campaign being promoted.

@larossmann is a case in point. Whilst he doesn't need to use the Farms to promote his work or his products, the fact he'll occasionally pop into his own thread and interact with Farmers hasn't been lost on his many detractors.

All this being said, I agree with many Farmers ITT that it needs to be done properly, there needs to be rules around it and it can't be a free for all.
 
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Given that this place is a safe haven for Wrongthink in an increasingly Pozzed world, I like the idea of enabling alternative institutions and ventures.

I think it would be very hard to codify exactly what constitutes organic/relevant self-promotion vs. spam in a way that the usual gay nerds wouldn't lawyerball into oblivion, but the "I know it when I see it" definition works very well in a benevolent dictatorship.

Same deal with ads...wouldn't have an issue seeing the site get funding that way (with the expectation that most here use ad blockers, and if it became overly intrusive, people would leave).
 
.iota. said:
i would suggest encouraging the community to help enforce some simple rules:

1. no promotion by new accounts
the farms should not be a place where someone is permitted to register only to shill their product. the community could report shilling posts from new accounts, and new users could be limited to shilling only after engaging.

2. once a post has been identified as a promotion, it should be tagged as such
the community could report shilling posts. mods could then add a tag to the post with some kind of disclaimer like "self-promotion: this product is not endorsed by kiwi farms, consoom or support at your own discretion".
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To go along with point number 2 specifically, if he doesn’t relegate the shilling to some kind of containment area on the site, then Null should add an option in profile settings for users to automatically hide any posts that have been marked as “self-promotion” in any thread by default, with the option to choose to view the post in a thread upon another click. Power to the retarded people and all.
 
I like it when people talk about stuff they've made. I don't like it when people shill or advertise. There's a fine line between the two and I don't have a good description of where that line is. I'll think about it.
Archie Bunker said:
To go along with point number 2 specifically, if he doesn’t relegate the shilling to some kind of containment area on the site, then Null should add an option in profile settings for users to automatically hide any posts that have been marked as “self-promotion” in any thread by default, with the option to choose to view the post in a thread upon another click. Power to the retarded people and all.
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The problem is if that option isn't the default then you'll have most people responding to the hidden post, and if you want to follow the discussion you have to un-hide promotion. If the option is on by default, then that's as good as banning it.
 
Am I active enough to shill my legal analysis podcast, Rhodesplaining the Islandwebs? Hey, chat, I'm Peter F. Neronha, Attorney General of The State Of Rhode Island, a small non-functioning court system in the armpit of massachusetts.
 
If someone is going to self-promote on this site, you should charge for the privilege.
  • Have a form that's accessible via the regular posting interface
    • like "If this is a promotional post, check this box"
  • If user checks the box, automated message comes up: "$5 please" or somesuch
    • "This post will be held in queue until payment has been made and post approved"
    • maybe establish promo accounts with prepaid balances that people can post against
Something like that^^. Shit, all things being equal you may as well get a cut.
 
there is a precedent for this type of behavior. my cat website is a Legitimate Professional Endeavour
 
I think that it should be done in a way that a lot of fan-related stuff seems to be, where people post in the relevant thread saying "hey I made this and it's relevant, I hope you like it."

HOWEVER, doing it on an off-topic board seems like it could lead to a culture that allows/lets powerleveling slide if it's in the name of "self-promotion".

For instance I have stated that I do art/animation commissions. It used to be on my tag line, and I mention it in my bio. I haven't seen any harm in this, and I've even sold a few. So I'm a bit biased there admittedly.

I sort of view it as akin to a link in someone's forum signature where they link their store/wares. That I'm okay with.

What I don't want it to be is people creating threads just to shill. Or even posting in an off-topic board about comics, with a post saying that you sell comics or are making one. If you had been active in the thread beforehand, only post it once, then move on, that's okay. But I am leery of someone going to an off-topic board for the first time just to shill their etsy store and then leave the thread, with it being a drive by ad.

I'm also worried that it will influence the culture of "no powerleveling" that I appreciate so much here.

Edit: ignore what I said, I agree with Crunklord. But I still think that what I did is fine
 
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D.A. d. nial said:
Am I active enough to shill my legal analysis podcast, Rhodesplaining the Islandwebs? Hey, chat, I'm Peter F. Neronha, Attorney General of The State Of Rhode Island, a small non-functioning court system in the armpit of massachusetts.
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NGFVABBKKH1AM63Z3E76GT8PS0.jpg NSBHMM3DME7DQ8DXE2JGNK2WF0.jpg 2QK6HRFJQ47HKKBYQACG44P4Q0.jpg 28NMNBQNZ62HYJ65FRZPHB4HN0.jpg QYT3Q9NT3PXANY51QDTQ966J10.jpg Don't forget to check out my new show on Adult Swim!
 
Sure, do it the 4chan/v/ way. You're allowed to make a thread about your indie game you're working on, you're allowed to talk about you working on it and stuff, and if you're being annoying, the community will shit on you and negatively impact your product. It's self-regulating.
 
I voted no due to I used to shill my shit on reddit (because they are the most gullible retards online). Now I do know that this site is far away from reddit (and it was years ago), but this phenomena can show up on other sites too, like 4chan and older tech/hobby forums etc.

My concern is this:
Some users will start posting vague shit in order to get to the "I can now shill" level by just barely making relevant comments in order to "fit in" the thread, with their end goal of doing the self promotion comment in the end. You will also have more people actively looking to necropost in threads relative to their product/sevice. This process of posting "vague stuff to fit in" and encuraging irrelevant threads to become active for no reason will lead to the average post quality to go down to a significant degree. You can say it's a form of "astroturfed advertisement" that will ruint said threads quality.

Also this leads to more incentive to use alt. accounts for heckn' updoots and self replys / "pats on the back" comments for that manufacturing consensus that it was a "good post".
Null said:
I'm actually leaning towards tolerating it as long as it's gentle or relevant.
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If this is the case, start with making "Self-Promotion" threads in order to keep other threads quality up and start sniffing out "vague posters" when you see more self-promotion/shilling showing up. Make containment threads for this. If people really want to shill, let them keep comment about it in dedicated threads. No need to shit up threads for retarded online hustle LARP's. I can imagine some exception for semper fidelis posters and site veteran/oldfags to do a little plug if it's relevant, but again: exception is not the rule, keep it contained!

Also, keep an eye for users that have advertisement/self-promotion in their profiles too (the avatar and the little text under it). They will post vague shit only to be seen in busy/very active threads. I would say it's ok to have it in their profile (when you are visiting the profile), as long it's not the thing you see on the side of the comments on this site.
 
I wouldn't personally do it, I don't get how people are even brave enough to post their art here if they post it anywhere else online at all it easily compromises their identity. But more power to them if they're fine with it.

In favor of allowing self promo and dealing with the frustration of not having great places to even do that, Reddit again takes it away as the most anal up their own ass website on the net with arbitrary and bullshit rules regarding posting your own work on virtually any subreddit related to art, comics, manga, etc. I know, it's Reddit, but when you're trying to get any audience you tend not to be too picky especially when shilling to normies.
The worst thing you can do is malign your creators especially if your group is already quite small.
 
I agree with @Justa Grata Honoria ,but I would like to add that LEGITIMIZATION ™️ might be a really good thing for the site. I think that if (relatively) normal people with fanbases come on here and shill their products then that could be good for the site. Someone might be less likely to believe that Kiwifarms is an evil doxxxxxxxxxxxing hate-site with 300 confirmed tranny kills if an indie comic book artists, author, or musician they like uses the site.
 
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