Post-Modernism - Or How 3 French Cunts Fucked Up the West

And of course, because they've idiotically cemented their own ideology as the 'right' one.

Once you've "deconstructed" everything and established there's no objective truth, though, you really have no framework to claim to be right, because there is no right. Racism, sexism, all the deplorable shit you hate, even outright Nazism, is just as valid as whatever woke bullshit is flavor of the month. You don't get to say there's no objective truth and then claim to have it.
 
Don't think for a moment anyone in STEM respects these people. The CEOs are doing public relations dances. In STEM, the humanites are roundly mocked and rejected. You know why they can't get a foothold in STEM? Because in STEM, you require results, critical thinking, logic. These people can't do anything but interpret a 60 year old theory in gibberish. Anita Sarkesian's videos to me didn't need to be deconstructed because they were pseduoacademic trash. They were fucking hysterical. They provided no evidence for these outrageous claims and used jargon and meaningless academic filler to make themselves look intelligent. I could do a video and make the same people who swallowed this shit drink water from a pothole by making it sound academically complex.

The humanities also include history, literature, geography, languages... if people in STEM mock those, no wonder we're in the problems we're in.

(I recently read an article making the case that we overfocus on STEM to the detriment of the humanities, and this is why we have so many of the problems we do today - people are weak in history, civics, ethics, philosophy and the like and it's been having effects on our society.)
 
(I recently read an article making the case that we overfocus on STEM to the detriment of the humanities, and this is why we have so many of the problems we do today - people are weak in history, civics, ethics, philosophy and the like and it's been having effects on our society.)

This isn't true, though. We don't even pay STEM teachers in primary school a penny more than basketweavers.
 
The humanities also include history, literature, geography, languages... if people in STEM mock those, no wonder we're in the problems we're in.

(I recently read an article making the case that we overfocus on STEM to the detriment of the humanities, and this is why we have so many of the problems we do today - people are weak in history, civics, ethics, philosophy and the like and it's been having effects on our society.)

Imho, the reason why humanities are often ridiculed has less to do with the subjects themselves and more with the types of people that often tend to be associated with them. Because they're "soft" sciences, it's easy to pollute them with pseudo philosophies and zeitgeist agendas which draws in the crazies like moths to a flame.
 
The humanities also include history, literature, geography, languages... if people in STEM mock those, no wonder we're in the problems we're in.

(I recently read an article making the case that we overfocus on STEM to the detriment of the humanities, and this is why we have so many of the problems we do today - people are weak in history, civics, ethics, philosophy and the like and it's been having effects on our society.)

You do realize that 90% of these fields have been taken over by the ideology I talked about? Did you know that the official organization for Anthropology removed science from its mission statement? That it would now focus on 'public understanding'? It eliminated science because there was a war going on inside the discipline, because evidence based Anthropology lead to some very uncomfortable conclusions, that the 'noble savage' did not exist and that primitive societies unexposed to colonialism were just as, if not more violent than white imperialists and practiced the same techniques? That science based anthropologists have been forced into hiding, not able to do their research and ostracized by major universities, publications and professional orgs?

Did you also know that any attempt to include science into the humanities is vehemently rejected? Social scientists who try have been ostracized and their careers effectively destroyed for trying because of the abject terror that evidence based study would basically force them to prove what they say. And that literature studies and philosophy are moving away from the 'evil white men' and not teaching Shakespeare and traditional philosophy? And that even geography is infected, with studies about feminist glaciers.

The humanities lacks any evidence based learning or independent thought. Social Psychology studies have a 25% rate of reproducable results?

There's a reason why STEM mocks the humanities. It's that they are terrified of science and evidence based learning, moving towards unprovable opinions and meaningless jargon. It also acts as protection for them infiltrating our fields with their garbage principles, terrified of trying to prove the shit they spout. There's also revisionist history and no critical thinking based learning in the humanities. It's all sophistry and regurgitation.

STEM isn't overfocused because people think science is magic and have no fucking idea about even basic principles of science.
 
I really grateful for this thread. It's an interesting concept, it's really sad to see where it's going with incomprehensible nonsense being spouted as some sort of logic. I can't say I know a lot to get into the technical side of things like other people have in this thread, but I can talk more about the artistic side of it.

I think the issue I notice with a lot of PM art is that it's just so over-saturated in the art world. Every new kind of art can't maintain any technical skill because it's not "abstract enough" as I heard in the past. And it seems to cultivate this clique in the art world (which always existed to be fair, but still shitty) in which any art that doesn't hold that hipster type meaning of deep is worthless, which is simply not true. I've seen instances in my own art college in with great technical skill, while praised is considered worse than a spot of paint on canvas because it holds no "meaning" to it.

Now, that isn't to say that you CAN'T find it with the spot of paint on the canvas, but what happens when everyone starts to want to have meaning? In my opinion, there becomes none. Because everyone is trying to achieve the same goal through the same deluded process of forgoing some sort of artistic skill, the art you see rather becomes samey. I don't think it's bad to say when everyone tries to do PM art, no one becomes special at it unless they really stand out of the crowd. But it's pushed so much to forgo any technical skill at all that any rando who doesn't know what they're doing can draw a shitty line, say some shallow saying and call it art. While art is subjective, a part of me wants some standard, even though I know it kind of ruins the idea of being subjective to begin with.

What if this new kind of art doesn't have a meaning? Or simply the artist wanted to show off some technical skills? Having art that is subversive isn't a bad thing. But even the early pioneers of PM art had some sort of technical skill. Thus they can understand how to subvert your expectations. However, because people aren't being pressured as much to maintain some sort of technical skill, it just makes the art look lazy.

Once again, I can't comment on the entire psychological field of this mentality. It's not my forte. But I'm more interested in the results of it than anything else really.
 
One trend you have to know about once-respected areas of humanities, such as History and Philosophy, is that they have since become exercises in exegesis. They pour over texts, referring texts to other texts, pitting texts against one another, never once touch base with reality. Humanity knowledge has become simulacra in Baudrillard's sense.

This trend is getting worse with pomo because since then even trivial, disposible texts became center to their discussion. Once History classes argue about the writings of Livy and Churchill, now they talk about People magazine.

I think the issue I notice with a lot of PM art is that it's just so over-saturated in the art world. And it seems to cultivate this clique in the art world (which always existed to be fair, but still shitty) in which any art that doesn't hold that hipster type meaning of deep is worthless,
It is a marketing thing. Pomo gives "artists" licence to indulge in pop culture, and pop culture sells. And there is no "depth" (hipster type or otherwise) in their works; all they brandish is "irony". As in "everyone knows I'm a man of wealth and taste and no one would seriously think I have a thing for balloon animals. That's why I bought this 'sculpture' of balloon puppy. It is an ironic protest against the shallowness and rampant commodification of our culture. Honest!"
 
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This trend is getting worse with pomo because since then even trivial, disposible texts became center to their discussion. Once History classes argue about the writings of Livy and Churchill, now they talk about People magazine.

If anything, the denigration of the canon and the resulting degeneracy have shown the Western canon actually is important and objectively better than random garbage.
 
It is a marketing thing. Pomo gives "artists" licence to indulge in pop culture, and pop culture sells. And there is no "depth" (hipster type or otherwise) in their works; all they brandish is "irony". As in "everyone knows I'm a man of wealth and taste and no one would seriously think I have a thing for balloon animals. That's why I bought this 'sculpture' of balloon puppy. It is an ironic protest against the shallowness and rampant commodification of our culture. Honest!"

Of course, this assumes that your analysis reaches the "correct" conclusion that the cool kids have decided upon already.
 
Did you know that the official organization for Anthropology removed science from its mission statement?

There is no universal "official organization for Anthropology". This is akin to me claiming that the official language of engineers worldwide is Belorussian because that is the language of the Minsk National Technical University.

As per your disregard for Humanities...you are exposed to companies and are manipulated every day to do things they want due to the training in humanities, such as sociology, psychology, etc.

Advertising, good advertising, is completely based on the humanities.
 
The humanities also include history, literature, geography, languages... if people in STEM mock those, no wonder we're in the problems we're in.

(I recently read an article making the case that we overfocus on STEM to the detriment of the humanities, and this is why we have so many of the problems we do today - people are weak in history, civics, ethics, philosophy and the like and it's been having effects on our society.)
We don't mock linguists. They use a lot of the same concepts we use in biotech now. They're a real science. Literature though? Absolutely. History and geography can be useful, depends a ton on how it's taught. Philosophy? Yeah, laughable.

To be fair though STEM majors laugh at each other too. There's a hierarchy where physicists make fun of engineers make fun of chemists make fun of biologists. Then the weird thing where everyone else makes fun of mathematicians but mathematicians make fun of everyone else.
 
Postmodernism as I've come to understand it is basically rationalism with a marxist makeover. In other words its basically worthless as a founding ideology unless you want your society to be anything more than glorified slaves.
 
There is no universal "official organization for Anthropology". This is akin to me claiming that the official language of engineers worldwide is Belorussian because that is the language of the Minsk National Technical University.

As per your disregard for Humanities...you are exposed to companies and are manipulated every day to do things they want due to the training in humanities, such as sociology, psychology, etc.

Advertising, good advertising, is completely based on the humanities.

I'm sorry, the oldest professional organization with the largest amount of members, career opportunities, connections to universities, runs the most major and high impact anthropological journals and being over two hundred years old, being the force of the discipline itself, managing the meeting of every sub-discipline of the field, it abandoning scientific and evidence based inquiry can be just dismissed off hand and is meaningless for the direction of the field itself. My bad.

Any advertising is based more on luck than anything else. Its being in the right place at the right time. Advertising is dominated by bad ideas and very few actually penetrate. Also lol. Social Psych has a 25% replication rate. Yeah, fucking pure amazing. Tell me how subliminal messaging works. Oh wait, it doesn't. All the manipulation in the world and an advertising campaign is based more on chance, capturing a zeitgeist and being incredibly fucking lucky.

Oh, and all that manipulation you speak about isn't done by current humanities, but by cognitive psych, which employs evidence based thinking and doesn't espouse tabula rasa as an ideology. Sociology? Seriously? Yeah, ok. The discipline is completely beyond saving except for criminology and forensics, which other social scientists hate because it employs stats. The discipline that averages $35k a year and pushes everyone who takes it into poverty and I'm suppose to fucking value that or give a fuck what its done to itself? Sociology gleefully sucked on a two-barreled shotgun and took the rest of the humanities with it as collateral damage.

I disregard the modern day humanities, which has no respect for the classics, refuses to update itself to modern day, and is fraught with boutique, useless study that serve only to further a pointless academic treadmill and spit out meaningless studies fraught with jargon.

We don't mock linguists. They use a lot of the same concepts we use in biotech now. They're a real science. Literature though? Absolutely. History and geography can be useful, depends a ton on how it's taught. Philosophy? Yeah, laughable.

To be fair though STEM majors laugh at each other too. There's a hierarchy where physicists make fun of engineers make fun of chemists make fun of biologists. Then the weird thing where everyone else makes fun of mathematicians but mathematicians make fun of everyone else.

STEM majors laugh at each other, but no other STEM major considers each other useless unless you're a crazy elitist and everyone makes fun of those.
 
disregard the modern day humanities, which has no respect for the classics, refuses to update itself to modern day, and is fraught with boutique, useless study that serve only to further a pointless academic treadmill and spit out meaningless studies fraught with jargon

This reads like edgy "I am very smart" cliche.

As per stem majors not considering other stem majors being useless, I suggest you meet a couple of engineers. We are the biggest collection of spergs that thing expertise in one single area of work makes us universally experts in all things.
 
This reads like edgy "I am very smart" cliche.
:thinking:
Says the guy who tried to use overly formal language to appear more knowledgeable, after trying and roundly failing to defend the canceraids ridden humanities as a whole while lightly shitting on STEM. Show me on the doll where the Liberal Arts degree touched you
 
All academics are like that.
I agree with that. It is a very real problem not just in academia. My point is that it's not unique to the humanities. Personal bias is a very real problem in sciences and engineering as well.

Says the guy who tried to use overly formal language to appear more knowledgeable, after trying and roundly failing to defend the canceraids ridden humanities as a whole while lightly shitting on STEM. Show me on the doll where the Liberal Arts degree touched you


English is not my first language. It is not my intent to sound like any specific type of speech.

I am very confused by your second sentence. Why if I was harmed by a liberal arts professor, I would feel the need to defend liberal arts professors? I think I am missing something.
 
I always have a hard time with this topic because people always seem to define modernism and post-modernism differently.

It all refers to so many things that you kinda have to pick and choose from both pools.

Imho, the reason why humanities are often ridiculed has less to do with the subjects themselves and more with the types of people that often tend to be associated with them. Because they're "soft" sciences, it's easy to pollute them with pseudo philosophies and zeitgeist agendas which draws in the crazies like moths to a flame.

Which is dumb because hard sciences also get flooded with dumb bullshit. US science funding is going into shit like solar roadways and a bunch of STEMs are probably working to dox that "pedoguy" Elon Musk had a spat with as we speak. Oh, lets not forget the neo-lysenkoism and troon invasion of the sciences thanks to diversity/sex quotas or that whole thing where plagiarism and making shit up is rampant.

Plenty of good history and (god help me) sociology gets published. Even if they come to a retarded conclusion, the evidence is usually based on fact.

I got a C in my "Post Modern Feminist Literature" class in college because I, and I quote the professor here, "didn't properly engage with the reading material" and "actively sought to destabilize classroom discussions by disagreeing with core concepts of the course."

Thank God I didn't pay for that experience.

I had a similar experience but got an A. I explained the ideas described in the class to make it clear that I understood them before making my case. Crazy class, asked us for our pronouns and she'd remember the pronouns and use them even if they were clearly bullshitting.

Having a full understanding of something before criticizing is a good way to live but I don't know what you did. I know people in that class that disagreed but just sperged at her in their essays.
 
I always have a hard time with this topic because people always seem to define modernism and post-modernism differently.
It is a feature, not a bug. Definitions privilege a certain form of discourse while silencing others.
 
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This reads like edgy "I am very smart" cliche.

I've presented evidence for all of these claims. But I'll try and briefly go over them again.

1) See all the disciplines in the humanities, notably English and Philosophy, straying from Socrates, Shakespeare and other 'white men' along with patriarchy. See also revisionist history, tearing down monuments and re-telling a biased view from the 'oppressed' perspective.

2) Many disciplines aren't even updated to the modern day because they refuse to take into account genetics and ascribe to 'Tabula Rasa', a discredited hypothesis that we're all blank slates and society only impacts us, we have no inborn behaviors, beliefs and the like, which as I've outlined before, is pure bullshit.

3) Beyonce Studies, Fat Studies, Gender Studies without Biology, Pop-Culture Studies and on and on and on.

4) The academic treadmill is real in the humanities. Very rarely do you get a decent paying job with a humanities degree. I broke down the difference between the cost of a STEM degree to a school and the cost of a humanities degree to a school. A STEM degree program requires you offer incentives that industry can't, requires you to maintain expensive equipment and labs to remain competitive, attract decent students to up the rep of your school, pay stipends to your graduate students. A humanities degree requires an adjunct professor you can pay 5k a class with, charge 40k per student and make a killing off of materials. It requires no expensive equipment, talent or knowledge to do. Some even get all their materials off the internet and just make them write papers that align with their views. There are no stipends for humanities graduate students, which means if they want to get more than 35k per year, they have to pay it themselves or utilize student loans. Humanities degrees for universities are INCREDIBLY lucrative, with next to no overhead and charging out the ass per student. That's why universities are safe spaces for them. Wouldn't want to upset the consumer, now would we?

5) How many studies do I need to pull up? Feminist Glacers? Fucking awful studies with terrible sample sizes and populations? The fake 1 in 5 rape statistic study that shot off the modern nightmare of Title IX? The prominent feminist who wrote about decrying the physics of liquid because of menstruation? (This is real. I wish it wasn't).

You don't need to be super smart to know any of this. This is critical thinking here. You step back and look at the evidence, presented by universities and the modern humanities themselves.

It is a feature, not a bug. Definitions privilege a certain form of discourse while silencing others.

Exactly. The whole thing is predicated on marginalizing opposition. That's why the progressive stack exists. Post-Modernism also allows you to twist 'oppressed' people being against you to them being brainwashed, so you can outright dismiss them. There is the changing of definitions and language when it is convenient for them, twisting it back and forth so 'its only for me, not for thee'.

Modernism was an examination of societal structures using critical thinking, different techniques as a method of obtaining truth. It played with traditional structures of art, story-telling, social structures, economics, everything. However, it did not deny that there WAS truth. It posited itself that society was changing, so a re-examination of that society was needed to cut the old from the new. Basically, it was examining a more efficient way to do things by thinking outside of the box.

Post-Modernism denies any structures whatsoever. There is no truth, there is only your truth. It doesn't seek to make structure more efficient or better, but it seeks to destroy those structures entirely.

The confusion comes in that Modernism and Post-Modernism sought/seek to disrupt the rigid structure of society. That's true. However, Modernism is a way of doing things differently/more efficiently/more creatively to improve societal structures. Meaning, there's a better way of doing things. Post-Modernism rejects this entirely, positing there is no right way to do things, that societal structures don't exist, and there is no truth.

That's the key difference between Modernism and Post-Modernism. Modernism sought a better way to improve societal notions that were different from the old order and way of things. Post-Modernism rejects that there is any way to do things, societal structures/biological divisions/gender are made-up concepts that exist to be torn apart, there is no objective truth, the only truth is what you make it. Which is why Post-Modern thought can twist definitions and have idiotic concepts like 'internalized misogyny' to boot out wrong think and still be 'internally consistent'. Well, to itself at least. To everyone else it just makes you a massive fucking hypocrite and obviously making shit up to prove your point.
 
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