ProjectMoon Megathread - Lobotomy Corporation, Library of Ruina, Limbus Company, etc.

[Kookin]

I have come to inquire if these specimen exist.

Has anyone got a hold on one?

 

[Lævateinn]

I have come to inquire if these specimen exist.
View attachment 5252852
Has anyone got a hold on one?

Yeah they're everywhere
Limbus suffers this fate because the hype train from the live service formula has the same effect than the weekly updates of the previous game
Constant key-jingling and all that

 

[Knifeguncat]

As someone who was lurking this drama from its start, I can admit that KJH is a lolcow material himself.

Ever since 2021 there been reviews on korean platforms of his studio and his ex-employees were complaining about him because he acted like a total manchild, threw tantrums and overworked his employees because of his perfectionist complex.

Spoiler: Depiction of the situation made by a fan on Twitter

View attachment 5252078

On the contrary, I’ve been told said reviews actually reveal PM to be one of the better indie studios in KR… Which makes you really wonder how fucked the KR scene is. (Disclaimer: This isn’t a defence of KJH or PM, despite what I’ve previously posted.)

I do agree PM isn’t ready to run a Gacha or just… any mainstream game. They aren’t mentally ready or even have the manpower to fight off bullshit like the current situation. Doesn’t help the main crew mainly speaks KR and any communication with non-KR is held hostage through the translators.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the artist fired was hired because KJH liked her art and thus they never bothered a background check or a basic sanity check: that happened with Mimi and it was clear as day on her profile she was the exact kind of bullshit which would have broken the contract.

My personal guess is a fuckton of contract-related stuff (like the clause leading to Kankan’s decision to reject) stems from the behaviour Mimi had during her time with PM (ie the Merson Park incident). Look at how long it took for them to add a Macro ban to their ToS lol. Pretty sure every Gacha to-date releases with that kind of stuff in their ToS.

PM really needs to go back to the drawing board.

 

[Gondola Enjoyer]

On the contrary, I’ve been told said reviews actually reveal PM to be one of the better indie studios in KR… Which makes you really wonder how fucked the KR scene is. (Disclaimer: This isn’t a defence of KJH or PM, despite what I’ve previously posted.)

I do agree PM isn’t ready to run a Gacha or just… any mainstream game. They aren’t mentally ready or even have the manpower to fight off bullshit like the current situation. Doesn’t help the main crew mainly speaks KR and any communication with non-KR is held hostage through the translators.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the artist fired was hired because KJH liked her art and thus they never bothered a background check or a basic sanity check: that happened with Mimi and it was clear as day on her profile she was the exact kind of bullshit which would have broken the contract.

My personal guess is a fuckton of contract-related stuff (like the clause leading to Kankan’s decision to reject) stems from the behaviour Mimi had during her time with PM (ie the Merson Park incident). Look at how long it took for them to add a Macro ban to their ToS lol. Pretty sure every Gacha to-date releases with that kind of stuff in their ToS.

PM really needs to go back to the drawing board.

Mainstream gachapiggies are also incredibly retarded and hard to please over the dumbest things. If you look at the most popular/profitable gacha games, it's Genshin/Honkai Star Rail, Arknights, etc., because to these people nothing except the presentation, and how hard they can p2w matters. Dogshit, overly verbose, usually unskippable story? Gacha system jewish as all fuck? Boring gameplay and exhausting daily grind? Who gives a shit, the characters are cute/sexy/homobait, having the best characters means you just automatically win, and the game isn't buggy. Literally nothing else matters.

I don't want to be one of those people, but yeah, PM breaking into the mainstream with Limbus attracted these gachafags, who seem to be very upset at the game being buggy, "difficult" (Yeah, I don't get it either, but apparently MD2H is too hard for a lot of people), and at PM for actually trying to balance some of the EGO like Representation Emitter instead of just putting out constant powercreep. And finally the high costs of Uptie 4, which, yeah, mostly fair, but then again, Uptie 4 only really exists to salvage some bad characters, and make good characters win very slightly more. You don't really need it to beat any content, but on the other hand you could genuinely argue that a good chunk of 4s are borderline gamebreaking, whether it be IDs or EGO.

On the other hand you have the "Don't fuck with us Project Moon fans, we haven't played the games either" side of the fanbase which, to be fair was always there to some degree, but seems to have exploded with Limbus' release, and kinda drowned out the people who actually play the games on social media. The amount of crusty fujoshis, gay shippers and troons in any place you can go to talk about the game is insane. And really funny when they get mad about coomers and swimsuits, meanwhile 80% of their post history is fucking Yi Sang x Dongrang gay porn. So of course those people are going to get outraged over a cultural issue half the world away, in a culture they have no connection to, in a language they don't understand.

Hopefully the Distortion Detective game they're working on ends up being a good singleplayer game, but at this point I don't think they can just cut off Limbus and go back to the way it was, and with the money rolling in, I don't think they want to.

 

[Knifeguncat]

Mainstream gachapiggies are also incredibly retarded and hard to please over the dumbest things. If you look at the most popular/profitable gacha games, it's Genshin/Honkai Star Rail, Arknights, etc., because to these people nothing except the presentation, and how hard they can p2w matters. Dogshit, overly verbose, usually unskippable story? Gacha system jewish as all fuck? Boring gameplay and exhausting daily grind? Who gives a shit, the characters are cute/sexy/homobait, having the best characters means you just automatically win, and the game isn't buggy. Literally nothing else matters.

Er, I’ll admit I’m a gacha regular of sorts and I keep tabs on gachas coming out.

Spoiler: Non-Limbus Gacha Sperging

Genshin and Star Rail are indeed mainstream in the sense they’ve been the starting point for a decent chunk of gacha newcomers. Like, completely unfamiliar with gachas as a whole kind of new. That’s how Mihoyo gets away with making them think the game’s generous with its pity then lock half the character behind dupes.

Arknights, while popular, I wouldn’t put in the same category as GI or HSR? Unlike those two there’s OG CN and Global so Global’s able to save six months in advance for what they want from CN, while GI and HSR are mostly blind as far as I know. Look to EN FGO for another example of how being split from OG server changes how F2P / Dolphins spend: they’ve got a full two years gap to plan all their meta / fav rolls out and they’re pretty dedicated.

Based on your rant, you’d actually be surprised by the amount of complaints with the recent story (on Global) being too verbose or irrelevant as a whole due to the timeline of the main story: Reed’s event - while a good character insight - doesn’t mean much as a whole, and the current ChongYue event is hard to follow / very uninteresting if you haven’t been following the entire Sui Sibling saga from the start.

AK is also pretty well known for not being coombait, but to each his own…?

To throw it back at you, Limbus’ gameplay is really, really tedious. MD2H is tough (not unbeatable), but it tends to end up stalling due to PM’s idea of Bosses always being gimmick based. Something like Yan, Xiao, or even the Blue Ensemble 1 was fine as you fought the bosses and only the bosses, either back to back or as a single Act. Respecting the gimmick made the fights faster, and that still applied to Limbus…

Until MD2H, where they decided the way to make bosses harder aside from stat boosts was removing the gimmick the bosses were built around. And they were right – but not in the good way! (Centipede is the biggest offender of this.)

I don't want to be one of those people, but yeah, PM breaking into the mainstream with Limbus attracted these gachafags, who seem to be very upset at the game being buggy, "difficult" (Yeah, I don't get it either, but apparently MD2H is too hard for a lot of people), and at PM for actually trying to balance some of the EGO like Representation Emitter instead of just putting out constant powercreep. And finally the high costs of Uptie 4, which, yeah, mostly fair, but then again, Uptie 4 only really exists to salvage some bad characters, and make good characters win very slightly more. You don't really need it to beat any content, but on the other hand you could genuinely argue that a good chunk of 4s are borderline gamebreaking, whether it be IDs or EGO.

If you want to speak numbers, Limbus isn’t even close to being mainstream especially given the examples you chose. Hell, don’t forget Limbus didn’t hit its pre-reg goals which were pretty okay numbers to aim for in a vacuum; most Limbus players were already in the PM ecosystem through LOR.

I don’t get why you’re saying that complaining about the buggy mess PM games are is a mainstream player issue – just because things can be worse, it doesn’t mean things can’t be better. PM fans are used to the jank, but I totally agree the state their games often drop in is unforgivable at times (Realisation Heart having too much power off the bat, False Throne being immortal, Realisation Funeral rarely using its gimmick page, Kromer’s passive being broken, RR1’s Kromer passive being listed despite not being in effect, etc.). I’ll take GI or AK story over broken HTML tags and basic spelling mistakes, thanks.

RE was a hated nerf because the changes to SP gain (punishing you for having max level characters by slowing your gen to a crawl, unless you were using Sun Heath or NClair) slowed the fights down by a lot, potentially to the point of being unable to EX clear in the designated 10 turns. People didn’t figure out the Higher Level = Shittier SP gain until it was too late to refund the lvl 35s done. RE and FluidFaust were the only ways to get things back to normal, especially with Dungeon resetting your SP with every checkpoint.

Uptie 4 is pretty blatant in being PM’s attempt to force players to stop hoarding shards. I agree the cost is pretty stressful for an F2P player not up to date with what’s meta. Dungeon taking ages to do thanks to above issues I mentioned + the rewards overhaul has made non-gacha shard grind a bit tougher for them too. I don’t have too many comments on the full UT4 changes for each unit but I also have to agree it’s not necessary for every unit, at the very least…

On the other hand you have the "Don't fuck with us Project Moon fans, we haven't played the games either" side of the fanbase which, to be fair was always there to some degree, but seems to have exploded with Limbus' release, and kinda drowned out the people who actually play the games on social media. The amount of crusty fujoshis, gay shippers and troons in any place you can go to talk about the game is insane. And really funny when they get mad about coomers and swimsuits, meanwhile 80% of their post history is fucking Yi Sang x Dongrang gay porn. So of course those people are going to get outraged over a cultural issue half the world away, in a culture they have no connection to, in a language they don't understand.

Where have you been lol? That’s always been the audience since LOR. (LC era wasn’t as plagued since it was pre-‘16 and the bad initial translation + very grindy gameplay gatekept these retards)

I wouldn’t say they exploded with Limbus’ release, if anything Limbus pissed off enough of the sane older players giving the old retards more space to echo off and become louder. We already know they lack the critical thinking to understand different cultures… they think Angela’s arc in LOR was well-deserved and that Ayin was nothing more than a neglectful father. It’s daddy issues all the way down – just as it’s always been in troon world.

I’d also blame the translators for keeping up the parasocial relationship the fans had with PM, but that’d be beating a dead horse on my end.

Hopefully the Distortion Detective game they're working on ends up being a good singleplayer game, but at this point I don't think they can just cut off Limbus and go back to the way it was, and with the money rolling in, I don't think they want to.

I still remember when they teased LC: Branch and LC2. The former sounded like LC meets DD with the whole “if your units die, they die in real life” stuff, the latter was another management game like LC, and both felt like the natural followup to LC in-universe. There was hype, and for very understandable reasons. PM may say they want to move away from Angela, Ayin, and the OG LC crew, but they’re literally setting Carmen up as a super mega villain again so…

I feel they’ll drop TDD not for monetary reasons, but more so they’ll claim it’s a “done” story since it tied too heavily into the Library.

Tl; Dr:

 

[Gondola Enjoyer]

I don’t get why you’re saying that complaining about the buggy mess PM games are is a mainstream player issue – just because things can be worse, it doesn’t mean things can’t be better.

I probably did word it pretty badly, but I'm not saying that it shouldn't be better. It should be better, it should always be better. My point is that I feel like how buggy and broken the game is is comically overstated by the community. Especially with how quickly most of the issues are solved, and how ready they are to throw out compensation for anything and everything. Off the top of my head, the worst bugs I can remember are a softlock in the Canto 4 dungeon, one in MD2, a couple of IDs that had fucked attack/defence values, one or two MD items just not working, and Kromer's passives. The dungeon softlocks and Kromer bugs never should've happened, and I fully understand the people upset over those, but I really do feel like the other issues aren't proportional to the amount of autism that happens over them.

This might just be a me thing, because if a game has an interesting core, I'm more than willing to tolerate jank or bugs as long as they're not genuinely gamebreaking. I've been around enough smaller budget/dev studio gacha games over the years to see people writing them off just because of lack of polish or production value, regardless of how good the actually important parts of the game are, that I just assume that most gachafags don't give a shit about anything else.

RE was a hated nerf because the changes to SP gain (punishing you for having max level characters by slowing your gen to a crawl, unless you were using Sun Heath or NClair) slowed the fights down by a lot, potentially to the point of being unable to EX clear in the designated 10 turns. People didn’t figure out the Higher Level = Shittier SP gain until it was too late to refund the lvl 35s done. RE and FluidFaust were the only ways to get things back to normal, especially with Dungeon resetting your SP with every checkpoint.

Fair, while I think Representation Emitter still did need a nerf, the SP changes at that point were extremely retarded, and poorly communicated which compounded the issue, but thankfully they were reverted in a week. And people still bring that nerf up as a reason as for why the game is going to shit.

I got nothing for the Heathcliff Bodysack nerf, that was just a fuckup from PM.

Tl; Dr:

Of course. I agree, it should be better, but it's also nowhere near as bad as the community makes it out to be.

edit:
Shit nigga, I just had to say something.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Limbus is alright as far as gacha goes. It doesn't tempt you too hard into buying shit (especially with how you can grind new characters through shards) and there is some hype for new releases, but the issue is that it is just so slow to get going. There is very little content and doing daily/weekly eventually gets tiresome, especially as the limited amount of characters will inevitably mean that there is no reason to get the new ones besides power creep. Mechanically it's okay, it's functional and satisfying, but again you need some variance for the experience.

I'm not too optimistic on how much the game will survive but I'll still keep on it, and as long as it breaks even it can run a long time.

I didn't play Arknights, but Genshin is just fuckton of content. Just exploring feels rewarding and there is a ton to see.

 

[Knifeguncat]

Limbus is alright as far as gacha goes. It doesn't tempt you too hard into buying shit (especially with how you can grind new characters through shards) and there is some hype for new releases, but the issue is that it is just so slow to get going. There is very little content and doing daily/weekly eventually gets tiresome, especially as the limited amount of characters will inevitably mean that there is no reason to get the new ones besides power creep. Mechanically it's okay, it's functional and satisfying, but again you need some variance for the experience.

I'm not too optimistic on how much the game will survive but I'll still keep on it, and as long as it breaks even it can run a long time.

I didn't play Arknights, but Genshin is just fuckton of content. Just exploring feels rewarding and there is a ton to see.

I play both AK and FGO, so boring downtime isn’t something I’m a stranger to. I agree Limbus has fucking nothing despite the ~biweekly banner. AK or FGO downtime is “fine” in comparison because dailies don’t take the same amount of brainpower and processing power, christ Limbus is so fucking badly optimised for every platform that Limbus demands from you for weeklies.

Maybe I’m wrong on this, but isn’t Limbus self-published? That’d actually be a good thing for PM in the long run as that’s how MICA (GFL, PNC) survives despite the lower than (gacha) average of profits. Last I checked, both games individually earned less than Limbus (~80k vs 1mil), but there could be a lot of factors in play.

My point is that I feel like how buggy and broken the game is is comically overstated by the community.

While I get what you’re going for, I respectfully have to disagree PM bugginess is a consistent issue even back during LC. We also know from the Yan buff -> nerf -> buff that PM doesn’t fucking balance test their fights — ever. They need to get screwed first hand by the fight to even consider a balance without playerbase input. (Context for those unaware: Yan’s post-buff nerf was brought on by KJH losing to buff 1 Yan on stream.) I think it’s very fair, despite the response times, to be complaining about it to this day.

You don’t sound like a gacha regular or even a long-time player of PM’s content. The tier of jank PM drops is very disappointing regardless of their reply times. I brought up actual gamebreaking bugs in my previous post, and to date LC STILL has its memory leak issue that can fuck up older systems. LOR’s modding tool? Absolute barebones: it’s missing major features literally everyone would want to use in their fights, like the built-in AOE attacks or On-Play cards (the options are Right There in the editor, just unselectable). You need some very stupid fixes to get them working and it’s made playing with mods a minefield, as you never know when someone’s badly duct taped mod will corrupt your entire game.

And people still bring that nerf up as a reason as for why the game is going to shit.

See above: PM has never known how to balance shit until the Jenga tower falls on them, and falls hard.

Of course. I agree, it should be better, but it's also nowhere near as bad as the community makes it out to be.

When only looking at Limbus, in a vacuum, ignoring all their previous content? Sure, maybe, okay, whatever.

In context? I fully agree it should be brought up still… Yan and the Passive Attribution incident should have really taught them to test indepth before shipping it out.

They seriously aren’t ready for a live service game.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

I play both AK and FGO, so boring downtime isn’t something I’m a stranger to. I agree Limbus has fucking nothing despite the ~biweekly banner. AK or FGO downtime is “fine” in comparison because dailies don’t take the same amount of brainpower and processing power, christ Limbus is so fucking badly optimised for every platform that Limbus demands from you for weeklies.

Maybe I’m wrong on this, but isn’t Limbus self-published? That’d actually be a good thing for PM in the long run as that’s how MICA (GFL, PNC) survives despite the lower than (gacha) average of profits. Last I checked, both games individually earned less than Limbus (~80k vs 1mil), but there could be a lot of factors in play.

Oh yeah, it's absolutely dreadful on my phone and I just fire up my PC for it. Though dailies take absolutely no time (auto skip for abno and fight against NCorp id I want to get the "Kill 10". The mirror dungeon is just about 1 hour run per week that's tough enough to at least be interesting. It's not as bad when I played Genshin on my ps4 and teleporting around took forever.

Also at least as much as I played starting season 2 the game is overall balanced, like there are some shit identities but that will always be a case and not worth the issue of fixing. If anything the game is incredibly easy once you collect some base 000 identities. Even hard mirror dungeon is just hoarding EGOs go the final encounter and then not being too greedy.

 

[Finger Pistols]

These are the new Zwei IDs. Tbh they look decent compared to the Sinclair and Rodya ones. At the very least they get to make the resources to fuel their own abilities, unlike Zwei Rodya. These are fully uptied though, so I'll have to wait and see how good their uptie 3 is.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

View attachment 5257113View attachment 5257117
These are the new Zwei IDs. Tbh they look decent compared to the Sinclair and Rodya ones. At the very least they get to make the resources to fuel their own abilities, unlike Zwei Rodya. These are fully uptied though, so I'll have to wait and see how good their uptie 3 is.

Defence level up is pretty bad though, as offense is always better than defence. They might be good though if enemies start having AOE attacks that aren't easy to clash against.

 

[Sulla]

Am I having a stroke? Whats the difference between defense level up and defense power up.

 

[SnakeEye]

Am I having a stroke? Whats the difference between defense level up and defense power up.

Defense level up buffs all skills' defense level, decreasing the damage you take. Defense power up increases defense skills' roll power.

 

[Sulla]

What, The, Fuck.

For context, the high poly final boss Bloodborne model and its animations are less than 50 mb.

 

[SnakeEye]

Wonderlab has been taken down from PM's posttype.
https://projectmoon.postype.com/post/15109245
It's been archived here, however:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-Vz8f6p3LRNkhoIfvwsxrXz7Iazdgopt
Btw, although it's been taken down, the Abnos still remain as PM's intellectual propriety, only the human characters and the story are no longer canon.

 

[Knifeguncat]

Wonderlab has been taken down from PM's posttype.
https://projectmoon.postype.com/post/15109245
It's been archived here, however:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-Vz8f6p3LRNkhoIfvwsxrXz7Iazdgopt
Btw, although it's been taken down, the Abnos still remain as PM's intellectual propriety, only the human characters and the story are no longer canon.

Drive's now private. Mimi seems to be going on a rampage more so than she usually does, lmao and is sending takedowns / reporting any reuploads she catches. The site she's currently stalking, arca, has banned all mention of the current situation + the Leviathan artist as well. Surprised it's been blocked on Wayback Machine too, but considering the type of folks behind WM...

I'm still a bit lost on what even spurred this, but seeing Mimi go from denying sending death threats and dox attempts against the guy who drew the Servant of Wrath porn to saying she's valid in doing so because she's a victim (and also admitting she's schizo) was pretty funny. It's always moving the goalposts with these idiots.

EDIT: It's on the Internet Archive apparently. Let's see how long it takes to go down.

 

[SnakeEye]

Mimi has doubled-down on the drama in the weirdest way possible.
https://twitter.com/whitezombies_MI/status/1692039301385875810

She began by talking about having a new job on a new company (this will be important later) and not being able to comment much due to it.
https://twitter.com/whitezombies_MI/status/1692040798920134750

Next she talks about her previous works, including a claim of being blackmailed and how she got blacklisted without explanation (considering how she is, it's pretty obvious why). Additionally, I don't need to say that publically talking about this shit is a bad idea, do I?
https://twitter.com/whitezombies_MI/status/1692056919136190838?t=OKwNR8WRWYQbVbIsfNeZgw&s=19



Mimi begins to talk about her relationship with PM, saying that she saw the fans wanted a completed rendition of the Oz characters as Abnos and gaining permission for it, but also that she wasn't going to copyright takedown them but was going to add them to her portfolio.
https://twitter.com/whitezombies_MI/status/1691752578277892542

https://twitter.com/whitezombies_MI/status/1691756255004758086

Finally, Mimi states that she and her new employer are going to 'legally complain' about PM since her BPD, I mean, anxiety is directly negatively affecting their project.

In conclusion, Mimi has made this drama all about herself, which basically marks its death sentence. Hopefully the lolsuit won't do any damage, but considering Mimi is at its center, that's more of a certainty than anything else.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Weird, I fought against My Form Emptied like 4 times and last week I got shock centipede and now Kromer (both far easier fights than Form and Bull). Wonder if it's random or altered by your team composition. Honestly the Hard Mirror Dungeon isn't that hard once you know what to do, even without resorting to cheese and ego spam. I guess next week is Canto 5, I can't imagine yet another Ish ID, but maybe a new ego. Outis needs some love.

 

[Penne Dreadful]

Weird, I fought against My Form Emptied like 4 times and last week I got shock centipede and now Kromer (both far easier fights than Form and Bull). Wonder if it's random or altered by your team composition. Honestly the Hard Mirror Dungeon isn't that hard once you know what to do, even without resorting to cheese and ego spam. I guess next week is Canto 5, I can't imagine yet another Ish ID, but maybe a new ego. Outis needs some love.

It definitely seems to cluster. I still haven't fought a non-Bull end boss for MD2H.

 

[Gondola Enjoyer]

Weird, I fought against My Form Emptied like 4 times and last week I got shock centipede and now Kromer (both far easier fights than Form and Bull). Wonder if it's random or altered by your team composition. Honestly the Hard Mirror Dungeon isn't that hard once you know what to do, even without resorting to cheese and ego spam. I guess next week is Canto 5, I can't imagine yet another Ish ID, but maybe a new ego. Outis needs some love.

I did MD2H either five or six times, and I got Kromer every single time. The midboss was usually different aside from getting Fairy Longlegs twice. I used pretty much the same team every time, and the exact same starting team every time.