- Joined
- Feb 8, 2021
Plagued /r/TNOmod and the Reddit HOI4 modding community - When a subreddit for a video game mod turns to utter insanity
- Thread starter Pointless Pedant
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2023
Honestly I look for to two mods, Fire Rises (even thought i fear that it will devolved into a biased political circlejerk), and more so Enteral Golden Dawn, the idea of a proto cyberpunk cold war is very interesting to say.
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2021
Grave Ghost
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2021
At least they seem like they'll release soon. The July 4th toozer was a bit underwhelming tho.
Chuckwagon
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2021
BTWH put out a mini-teaser recently. No actual in-game content, but rather a flowchart of the internal makeup of Fred Hampton's Rainbow Coalition (IOW, as I have said previously, the main Mary Sue revolutionary faction in the mod, though ironically it is not an MVP for their planned 0.1 release) and its relationships with other minor factions in Illinois. Devs have said they'd like to produce a similar flowchart for the Washington Government, which is intended to serve as the base for a returning President Philip Hart and supplant Hubert Humphrey's Minnesota as the chief of the wholesome 100 democrat faction if it emerges from Baltimore defeating the Capitol Military District.
Other than that, they've been engaging in hour-long struggle sessions as per usual, most recently coming down hard on some new guy for having the temerity to not hate his grandpa's guts for being a Vietnam veteran. Other leftard classics include 'North Vietnam may or may not have committed an assload of war crimes too but EVEN IF THEY DID their crimes cannot be compared to those of the US military/ARVN because that'd be a capitulation to imperialism', 'totalitarianism is good', 'the American military were basically Nazis', 'only capitalists can do imperialism', 'the South was an imperialist project for taking foreign aid while the North isn't despite also taking foreign aid for reasons', 'hate your family for not meeting the ever-shifting and inconsistent moral standards of intersectional leftism', and 'minorities like the Degar/Montagnard fighting for the South actually don't count because they were artificially propped up by imperialists'.
I will grant the less retarded commie they were all ganging up on one thing, he stuck to his guns to the end and somehow managed to avoid getting banned. Which is hilarious because they banned former developers for saying much less offensive stuff (appearing to support American nationalism, which is inherently fascist to these proglodytes, is an instant-ban offense on the server). I guess even their commissars must be suffering from the competency crisis inherent to any late-stage Communist organization & project.
Oh yeah, and one other thing. Turns out they're reworking the hell out of Nationalist California, the main right-wing opposition tag to their other commie Mary Sue faction the California Federation, and replacing Hal Moore & Curtis LeMay as its other possibilities for leaders (alongside Richard Nixon, who's staying) with Ronald Reagan & Sam Yorty respectively. From what I've gathered, Moore had a 2002 movie made about him by Mel Gibson (who also plays him & consulted with him when making the movie, since it was based off a book he wrote), and was one of the rare Vietnam-era leaders beloved by his troops and even respected by the North Vietnamese for his personal bravery, integrity & strong sense of honor. He also wasn't a racist and refused to attend his West Point graduation picnic if his classmates insisted on excluding his black friend (they backed down in the end), while his wife fought to get the government to set up a better death notification system for the families of soldiers & to treat veterans better, which is probably why the Biden administration renamed one of the big bases originally named for a Confederate general (in this case, Fort Benning) after them. Bomber LeMay, meanwhile, should need no introduction.
Thus, my guess is that these two were removed from leadership because the devs can't stand to have the counterrevolutionaries getting any good men as leaders, or even just cool ones, lest people actually want to play as them. They are still going to be around in NatCali apparently, but in much less prominent roles - Moore as strictly a general, and LeMay as a fucking failstate. The realization that with how the old NatCali triumvirate was set up, a player could deservedly reduce Hanoi Jane to atoms as LeMay must've burned someone's ass.
Other than that, they've been engaging in hour-long struggle sessions as per usual, most recently coming down hard on some new guy for having the temerity to not hate his grandpa's guts for being a Vietnam veteran. Other leftard classics include 'North Vietnam may or may not have committed an assload of war crimes too but EVEN IF THEY DID their crimes cannot be compared to those of the US military/ARVN because that'd be a capitulation to imperialism', 'totalitarianism is good', 'the American military were basically Nazis', 'only capitalists can do imperialism', 'the South was an imperialist project for taking foreign aid while the North isn't despite also taking foreign aid for reasons', 'hate your family for not meeting the ever-shifting and inconsistent moral standards of intersectional leftism', and 'minorities like the Degar/Montagnard fighting for the South actually don't count because they were artificially propped up by imperialists'.
I will grant the less retarded commie they were all ganging up on one thing, he stuck to his guns to the end and somehow managed to avoid getting banned. Which is hilarious because they banned former developers for saying much less offensive stuff (appearing to support American nationalism, which is inherently fascist to these proglodytes, is an instant-ban offense on the server). I guess even their commissars must be suffering from the competency crisis inherent to any late-stage Communist organization & project.
Oh yeah, and one other thing. Turns out they're reworking the hell out of Nationalist California, the main right-wing opposition tag to their other commie Mary Sue faction the California Federation, and replacing Hal Moore & Curtis LeMay as its other possibilities for leaders (alongside Richard Nixon, who's staying) with Ronald Reagan & Sam Yorty respectively. From what I've gathered, Moore had a 2002 movie made about him by Mel Gibson (who also plays him & consulted with him when making the movie, since it was based off a book he wrote), and was one of the rare Vietnam-era leaders beloved by his troops and even respected by the North Vietnamese for his personal bravery, integrity & strong sense of honor. He also wasn't a racist and refused to attend his West Point graduation picnic if his classmates insisted on excluding his black friend (they backed down in the end), while his wife fought to get the government to set up a better death notification system for the families of soldiers & to treat veterans better, which is probably why the Biden administration renamed one of the big bases originally named for a Confederate general (in this case, Fort Benning) after them. Bomber LeMay, meanwhile, should need no introduction.
Thus, my guess is that these two were removed from leadership because the devs can't stand to have the counterrevolutionaries getting any good men as leaders, or even just cool ones, lest people actually want to play as them. They are still going to be around in NatCali apparently, but in much less prominent roles - Moore as strictly a general, and LeMay as a fucking failstate. The realization that with how the old NatCali triumvirate was set up, a player could deservedly reduce Hanoi Jane to atoms as LeMay must've burned someone's ass.
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2021
For some reason I can't reply to @Chuckwagon but I was going to say this; At this rate of changing right-wing leaders in BTWHmod, I'm pretty sure the furthest right you can go is the equivalent of whatever Lady MAGA believes in.
Chuckwagon
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2021
This, I believe, is the inevitable end result of operating from the completely brainwashed Marxist intersectionalist position these doofs have put themselves in (and they are far from the only left-wing 'creatives' to find themselves in such a quandary). They want to make the right-wingers seem as evil as possible so you can guiltlessly genocide them as the SDS or whatever, but they also don't want to give the impression that said right-wingers are cool in any way even unintentionally (under the delusion that if you play a right-wing path in HOI4 and find it interesting, you will yourself become an evil rightist). That means they obviously can't use legitimately good guys like Moore (woke leftards would rather pretend there was and never can be such a thing as a 'good guy on the right' period, because to be a right-winger = being inherently, ontologically evil in their view), but they also can't use the people with colorful personalities that tend to come with views considered so controversial, like LeMay or George Lincoln Rockwell.
That basically just leaves them stuck with boring people with frankly milquetoast views like Nixon, who are much more difficult to turn into convincing mega-bad Hitler-tier antagonists you cannot possibly feel sorry for (much less think are cool) and also show up in plenty of other mods like TNO, so they aren't going to feel unique to BTWH either. God knows the media, up to & including even early George Lucas, have tried to demonize the likes of Nixon for example, but even nowadays there are people who find something admirable in how he dug himself out of poverty & never quit in spite of being handed defeat after defeat in his career; or find his policies reasonable; or think that the deep state fucked him over Watergate because reasons.
The other half of this equation is that they have to try insanely hard to lionize the '60s left, because if you look past the glowing media profiles, you'll soon come to the conclusion that they were pretty much all objectively failures. The Black Panthers collapsed in on themselves and dwindled to nothing, with some former leading members like Eldridge Cleaver looping all the way to the other side of the political spectrum and turning into conservative Republicans later in life. The Weathermen made asses of themselves, got bullied by the other leftards and ultimately ended up in jail for varying lengths of time before eventually finding more success in infiltrating academia after ditching all the cringy ass 'rah rah revolution now' BS. Certainly they couldn't get the Revolution™ going in their lifetimes. The likes of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are now remembered as master race grifters, not civil rights activists, and the policies they pushed so hard for have left black Americans worse off than they were before segregation - cripplingly high rates of broken families incompetently led by single mothers, severe impoverishment, memetic crime rates, ghettos being blighted hellholes devoid of any true life, a destroyed wreck of a culture that lionizes thuggery and the crabs-in-a-bucket mentality, etc. This makes it hard to make them look cool, even in a purely ironic or memey way - it's way easier to make memes mocking the shit out of them & whatever 'achievements' they were able to rack up rather than ones celebrating them.
And, y'know, there's really only so much these people can do in that regard, because the wannabe revolutionaries of the 1960s were just that simultaneously hatefully insane and comically ineffectual. So much so that even in a scenario constructed to make them hundreds of thousands of times more effective than they ever were IRL, they still come across as objectively worse than their gimped far-right enemies. Let's compare, for instance, the Weathermen to the 'Michigan Anti-Communist Army', the main right-wing tag in MI who are described as a coalition of militias and mercenaries paid for by Amway and the DeVos family: the Weathermen are openly self-genocidal, nigger-worshiping, maximally degenerate white or (((((white))))) maniacs who demanded their own throw their white babies in the trash, praised Manson for murdering a pregnant woman, and wanted to ban monogamy in favor of forcing everyone to live in giant polycules where you must be sexually available for everyone else at all times. Sure one can whine about how William Westmoreland and Curtis LeMay are big bad evil guys with the blood of thousands or millions on their hands, but even if you were to concede all that's true without a hint of exaggeration in the slightest, they would STILL seem more likable than the likes of Bernardine Dohrn and Bill Ayers anyway because the latter are a perfect storm of being batshit insane, ridiculously smug & self-righteous in their insanity (at least LeMay had the self-awareness to admit he'd be seen as a war criminal if WW2 had gone the other way), delusional about their abilities, and murderously contemptuous & hateful toward everyone around them.
Meanwhile MACA are described as being able to either become a fairly standard corporatocracy headed by Amway and the Big Three of Ford, Chrysler and General Motors, which may be dreary but is at least functional, livable and comprehensible both to us and the people of the 1960s; or at 'worst' they're taken over by the grassroots wignat militia types who will destroy Detroit, which we know will turn into an open sewer with a memetic reputation for being America's biggest shithole under black leftist leaders like Coleman Young and had to hit rock bottom before even beginning to recover very recently.
Gee, I wonder which is the better path for the most people, the Year Zero self-genociders who want to unironically go to war with our own natural relationship instincts (fundamentally killing a part of everyone's humanity in pursuit of their deranged 'utopian' goals in a different way compared to most other commies, so points for originality I guess) and kill white babies - or the people who, at worst, want to destroy a city that's already going to destroy itself if left alone anyway, and at best will have their enemies make their propaganda about 'fighting to secure a future for the white race' actually true? What a difficult choice! Of course any sane player is going to think the right-wingers are the good guys here and cheer for them in nailing the Weathermen's heads to their doors, even the BTWH devs are struggling majorly to make Weather look good and it's no fucking wonder, what they're trying to do for Weather's ilk is like trying to make a heroic Andrei Chikatilo path in TNO!
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2023
BTWH devs be like this.
>AMERICA BAD
>They say in their nice apartments in a nice town paid off by rich parents typing on the 4000090 RTX pee pee poo computer ranting on reddit that they're oppressed because Dixie Joe called him a "him" and not "SoySelf" thus wanting violence on the working class they claim to want to help.
or
>America bad
>they say in a eurofag country that benefits from mass american aid and protection with NATO and not a CCP puppet state or a shithole commie zone, while they bash eastern euros for being so pro america as "nazi bootlickers"
>AMERICA BAD
>They say in their nice apartments in a nice town paid off by rich parents typing on the 4000090 RTX pee pee poo computer ranting on reddit that they're oppressed because Dixie Joe called him a "him" and not "SoySelf" thus wanting violence on the working class they claim to want to help.
or
>America bad
>they say in a eurofag country that benefits from mass american aid and protection with NATO and not a CCP puppet state or a shithole commie zone, while they bash eastern euros for being so pro america as "nazi bootlickers"
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2021
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2021
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2021
There's like no south america content teased here.
They're teasing a slider, that's it. That's all they have to tease.
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- Joined
- Nov 30, 2022
Bring The War Home is gonna be complete shit because it is first and foremost a circlejerk of America Bad and it is obviously far more worried about that than any concerns of "gameplay" much less "fun".
Once again Equestria at War chads keep winning.
Once again Equestria at War chads keep winning.
Grave Ghost
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2021
Implying that mod will ever release.
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2021
That's implying its ever going to release in the first place. Which is still doubtful. Troons can't ever make shit right, they can't even make an Alpaca farm.
Though part of me still hope they have the actually fun sounding paths like Jim Jones, Charles Manson or Valerie Solonas in development, but I highly doubt because those y'know would be entertaining at least.
Chuckwagon
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2021
I've got some bad news on those fronts. First Manson can't actually unify even California, much less the country, since he's a trap path (or rather an entire trap faction) who can at best get to San Diego before his tag implodes.
Jim Jones can't go full mask-off suicidal killpeopleist unless he's losing, and will be portrayed as the good guy he pretended to be (and was fully believed to be by a bunch of leftard bigwigs back in the day, like Dianne Feinstein & Harvey Milk) for the most part. He also apparently can't unify Cali on his own either, and can only reach his maximum potential as basically the Pope of a surviving CaliFed (evolving into a sort of puppet-master figure behind the official secular leadership by the sound of it), which might be a cool concept in the hands of literally anyone other than the BTWH devs.
And said devs have been bouncing Solanas back & forth between the West Coast and NYC with no clear idea of where to put her. Even if they settle on the former however, they have already made up their mind to demote her from the leadership of her old faction, the Women's Revolutionary Army, which is now going to be led by Hanoi Jane instead.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2021
KR Redux Ukraine update came out and I have played a little of it to mess around, mostly up until 1938. Mechanically it is pretty functional and the paths are interesting. Early on you choose whether to side with the king or the hetman and it seems like there are a lot of diplomatic routes that you might possibly take. Honestly surprised considering current events.
Not that that matters because the British Republicans were the wholesome chungus path anyways.
Same here. More relieved when they understood Mosley was a British nationalist and not a German sympathizer, although they decided to make him completely irrelevant in exile rather than do anything with him, which is odd given his post-war politics.
Before they gutted everything, of the monarchist faction of rebels he headed the traditionalist and conservative branch of the party, while his opposition was the liberally minded progressive who happens to have been gay (ie the wholesome chungus monarchist option).
Not that that matters because the British Republicans were the wholesome chungus path anyways.
Karakhalkin-Gol
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2021
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2021
Get a load of this.
For three years, the TNO team has been committed to seizing and locking away, if not erasing, everything that was worth visiting in the original mod. To think that a mod so young can already have a "classic" version is a testament to how vehemently, and how abrasively, the developers have sought to bury the project that originally took them under its wing. That project, now little more than "classic TNO," was widely praised and followed. These insidious writers, coders, designers and indolent idea people have been trying to replace what we like with what they feel we should like. The result can only be expressed in one form: the wall of text. A huge edifice of self-centered philosophizing and moral condescension. It seems incredible that we have to say it, but we might as well lay it down at last: you cannot argue your audience into enjoying your game.
That said, what are all these issues we now presumably have to fix? These people are persuaded they are an "original sin" that has only now become clear enough to merit harsh treatment. According to this imbecile, many of TNO's mistakes date back to when it was "gamified," but what, pray tell, is it now? Do you mean TNO sacrificed realism and political insight, which it never had much of to begin with, to offer a fun gameplay experience? Only you and your clique take issue with that. We were here before you were, and enjoyed the state of affairs you are allergic to.
Read his message. "I got burned out again and it's only half complete". These are the people working to "improve" your game. People who get tired of trying. People whose design precepts cannot fit into the project, and so, forced to choose between the two, choose the former. People who might say "So much worse for TNO" if push comes to shove. People who will tell you certain things must not be gamified, but what, exactly, will you not gamify in this game? Speer's reforms whitewash and perpetuate a continental system of economic oppression. You make it work through cool neon GUIs. That is unsettling. Why not remove it? Tyumen's Siberian Plan has people dying of hunger. There's a little red indicator that refers to mass suffering. Is it acceptable because you as a player are trying to prevent it, though you are, in some way or another, causing it by insisting on carrying out the plan to begin with? We don't even have an option not to! Very problematic. Should we remove it? And is the Black League not an overtly genocidal faction, looking to wipe out everything and anything Germanic no matter the cost? Where do we draw the line for a game with such serious, heinous content? Did we need to redraw whatever lines there were before you came?
We all welcome Burgundy to go from Bond villain to North Korea. That much is "better," in the way this idiot suggests. But what will you give us in its stead? When you take away something, you should be prepared to give back doubly. If you make Himmler and his rump state incompetent, as they undoubtedly would be, what is your plan to make their plotlines fun? How will you connect them to other world events? Is their function going to be to collapse? Is this a nation we play only to have it smash itself to bits after a few years? Is our new sense of enjoyment going to come from the moral satisfaction of reaching the observer screen, certifying we're not Nazis?
Get over yourselves. The mod does not portray the Nazis in a good light. Sane players will not convert, or even warm up, to Nazism. Those who will are beyond your reach, and probably beyond saving. You can't turn creative media into a moral kindergarten. You must accept every piece of media is vulnerable to radicals, banality, and idiots. From the very first day, it was clear TNO was a tragedy: the tragedy of totalitarianism and particularly National Socialist hubris. This may be more obvious now, but it is also more tedious, and less moving. Three years on, we have less content than at launch, but we have more than enough confessional dev messages to go around.
For three years, the TNO team has been committed to seizing and locking away, if not erasing, everything that was worth visiting in the original mod. To think that a mod so young can already have a "classic" version is a testament to how vehemently, and how abrasively, the developers have sought to bury the project that originally took them under its wing. That project, now little more than "classic TNO," was widely praised and followed. These insidious writers, coders, designers and indolent idea people have been trying to replace what we like with what they feel we should like. The result can only be expressed in one form: the wall of text. A huge edifice of self-centered philosophizing and moral condescension. It seems incredible that we have to say it, but we might as well lay it down at last: you cannot argue your audience into enjoying your game.
That said, what are all these issues we now presumably have to fix? These people are persuaded they are an "original sin" that has only now become clear enough to merit harsh treatment. According to this imbecile, many of TNO's mistakes date back to when it was "gamified," but what, pray tell, is it now? Do you mean TNO sacrificed realism and political insight, which it never had much of to begin with, to offer a fun gameplay experience? Only you and your clique take issue with that. We were here before you were, and enjoyed the state of affairs you are allergic to.
Read his message. "I got burned out again and it's only half complete". These are the people working to "improve" your game. People who get tired of trying. People whose design precepts cannot fit into the project, and so, forced to choose between the two, choose the former. People who might say "So much worse for TNO" if push comes to shove. People who will tell you certain things must not be gamified, but what, exactly, will you not gamify in this game? Speer's reforms whitewash and perpetuate a continental system of economic oppression. You make it work through cool neon GUIs. That is unsettling. Why not remove it? Tyumen's Siberian Plan has people dying of hunger. There's a little red indicator that refers to mass suffering. Is it acceptable because you as a player are trying to prevent it, though you are, in some way or another, causing it by insisting on carrying out the plan to begin with? We don't even have an option not to! Very problematic. Should we remove it? And is the Black League not an overtly genocidal faction, looking to wipe out everything and anything Germanic no matter the cost? Where do we draw the line for a game with such serious, heinous content? Did we need to redraw whatever lines there were before you came?
We all welcome Burgundy to go from Bond villain to North Korea. That much is "better," in the way this idiot suggests. But what will you give us in its stead? When you take away something, you should be prepared to give back doubly. If you make Himmler and his rump state incompetent, as they undoubtedly would be, what is your plan to make their plotlines fun? How will you connect them to other world events? Is their function going to be to collapse? Is this a nation we play only to have it smash itself to bits after a few years? Is our new sense of enjoyment going to come from the moral satisfaction of reaching the observer screen, certifying we're not Nazis?
Get over yourselves. The mod does not portray the Nazis in a good light. Sane players will not convert, or even warm up, to Nazism. Those who will are beyond your reach, and probably beyond saving. You can't turn creative media into a moral kindergarten. You must accept every piece of media is vulnerable to radicals, banality, and idiots. From the very first day, it was clear TNO was a tragedy: the tragedy of totalitarianism and particularly National Socialist hubris. This may be more obvious now, but it is also more tedious, and less moving. Three years on, we have less content than at launch, but we have more than enough confessional dev messages to go around.
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2021
Yeah I haven’t played TNO since they added the new US president. I stopped giving a shit and now am just hoping they collapse because the fallout will be fun
The sub was circlejerking about fucking guangdong (lmao) the last time I checked
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2021
General sentiment dev-wise, some burn out due to ass-hat bureaucracy towards designs even before they even begin work on their content.
Rather comically I am now seeing local rank-and-file TNO devs just saying a massive "FUCK YOU" to the rest of the team by making a submod with the goal of demanding its inclusion into the mod in the near future.
Hyperborea/Agartha shitposting didnt die down.