Plagued /r/TNOmod and the Reddit HOI4 modding community - When a subreddit for a video game mod turns to utter insanity

[EpicGamerMoment]

This is par for the course for most of these mods these days, even finished ones. Instead of going back and reworking the majors to work better with the newer content updates, they content themselves to pump out egregiously long content-trees for Chinese/Russian/African warlords that people never play.

Before Kaiser1871 (lead and sole dev of Red World) passed away he was working on Germany content and now the fork that is supposedly continuing his work is shitting out Yemen and Moldova trees lmao

 

[The Gene Genie]

Before Kaiser1871 (lead and sole dev of Red World) passed away he was working on Germany content and now the fork that is supposedly continuing his work is shitting out Yemen and Moldova trees lmao

Exactly what I mean. KR and TNO suffer the most from these problems due to visibility but it's everywhere. KR is one of the few mods I've played more than just one run and they pissed away at least a year on developing the Chinese warlords that literally no one plays. I don't get it and I don't want to.

It's even spread to projects like OWB, although I suppose that's by necessity since places like the Midwest and Mexico are barely covered in the lore. But I question the design decision of making Mexican factions more fleshed out than the NCR or the Legion. At least they did what KR and TNO refuse to do and go back to bring the majors up to speed.

I think it's a matter of laziness and the fact that most of these losers who make these mods have obsessive autistic hyperfocuses on obscure literally-whos from history. Explains most of TNO/TWR, tbh.

 

[General Emílio Médici]

Using the Windows Error Sound for basic interactions is such a baffling choice it almost sounds like a troll.

How the fuck could you think this is a good idea? It is a ERROR SOUND! It was designed to make you do a double take, it is engineered to be unpleasant so you will pay attention to something that went wrong. Do you know what that sound is? The Windows XP name of it is literally Critical Stop. Not even a regular error sound, a critical error one. Why not use the start menu click?

And why does transistors getting invented earlier means tech seems to be somehow behind our current level? Or is this a case of only aesthetics being fucked but under the hood these computers are all 64 cores at 3.2Ghz?

 

[The Cum Beast]

Exactly what I mean. KR and TNO suffer the most from these problems due to visibility but it's everywhere. KR is one of the few mods I've played more than just one run and they pissed away at least a year on developing the Chinese warlords that literally no one plays. I don't get it and I don't want to.

It's usually because a dev is from that country or region. Another possible reason is to appeal to their community. Like how a bunch of mods added ukraine content after the start of the "special military operation"

 

[EpicGamerMoment]

I think it's a matter of laziness and the fact that most of these losers who make these mods have obsessive autistic hyperfocuses on obscure literally-whos from history. Explains most of TNO/TWR, tbh.

I think since they're small and inconsequential countries they allow the writers/devs their tranny fanfic to roam free. If they did that to the majors it would cause major backlash but who cares about some african warlord ?

 

[Rome's rightful successor]

Its a bold choice making the first nations you can play as be 3 largely meaningless African Nations that in normal Hoi4 everyone ignores and doesn't care about.

Anthropocene seems to fall into the same pit as TNO where its clear the people behind it are more interested in writing for the world than actually making a interesting mod, and the fact their first release covers 3 minor nations instead of the actually interesting ones Like the US, USSR, or anyone else shows they don't have gameplay first.

To be fair I could understand why first time hoi4 modders would focus on a small nation first. They might not be used to modding and think working on a small nation will help them getting used to modding before working on one of the major players in the mod. Plus small nations can be a fun challenge to play as if the scenario is done right (looking at you TNO Russian warlords). I could also understand why they would focus on the rest of the world first, If the rest of the world is static and inactive the mod will not feel lived in, engaging, or immersive. Though there needs to be a balance between gameplay and world building.

 

[Ryona420]

I'm of the opinion only the major nations need content. First that was personal preference but now seeing big mods like KR and TNO I think its a rule that is needed. It keep getting brought up every now and then but its become an issue consistently in HOI4 mods where some minor like fucking Haiti has a large ass focus tree while say Germany has nothing. Strangely TNO on launch sorta had this mindset. USA and Germany were essentially the only nations with content with Japan coming in third and having some unfinished events.

 

[The Gene Genie]

On the topic of Anthropocene and really I think this extends to mods like TNO, they really ought to just stop making games on the HOI4 platform. The kind of game and story they want to tell isn't really conductive in the environment that HOI4 provides. HOI4 is, at its very base level, essentially just a Barbarossa Simulator and not even a very good one at that. It can barely accurately depict the events of World War II, let alone a Cold War scenario or something in the modern day. The game just isn't made for that.

They should just invest in some good quality coding and shit and make a game along the lines of Crisis in the Kremlin/Ostpolitik/Papers Please/etc with lo-fi graphics and an emphasis on writing and decision-making. Sure it wouldn't look as good, and the market may be a little niche, but it's preferable to what we have now.

 

[VariableOverflow]

On the topic of Anthropocene and really I think this extends to mods like TNO, they really ought to just stop making games on the HOI4 platform. The kind of game and story they want to tell isn't really conductive in the environment that HOI4 provides. HOI4 is, at its very base level, essentially just a Barbarossa Simulator and not even a very good one at that. It can barely accurately depict the events of World War II, let alone a Cold War scenario or something in the modern day. The game just isn't made for that.

They should just invest in some good quality coding and shit and make a game along the lines of Crisis in the Kremlin/Ostpolitik/Papers Please/etc with lo-fi graphics and an emphasis on writing and decision-making. Sure it wouldn't look as good, and the market may be a little niche, but it's preferable to what we have now.

It's quite the stretch, going from modding a very mod-friendly game to making a whole new game, you know. In fact, there's a reason we havent seen mods-turned-games from the HoI4 modding community, modding skill does not translate into game-making skill. Hell, you talk of coding, but you are aware that technically speaking the vast majority of the "coding" in HoI4 mods is actually scripting?

In other words, you seem to have too high an opinion of the skills required for HoI4 modding. In fact, I'd say this game is the RPGMaker of strategy games in that sense, we've seen all sorts of whacky things done with RPGMaker, because it's easy to master and twist to unintended ends, just as HoI4 is, to varying degrees of success.

 

[The Gene Genie]

It's quite the stretch, going from modding a very mod-friendly game to making a whole new game, you know. In fact, there's a reason we havent seen mods-turned-games from the HoI4 modding community, modding skill does not translate into game-making skill. Hell, you talk of coding, but you are aware that technically speaking the vast majority of the "coding" in HoI4 mods is actually scripting?

In other words, you seem to have too high an opinion of the skills required for HoI4 modding. In fact, I'd say this game is the RPGMaker of strategy games in that sense, we've seen all sorts of whacky things done with RPGMaker, because it's easy to master and twist to unintended ends, just as HoI4 is, to varying degrees of success.

I get that but I'm saying that the medium doesn't really work. I suggested examples like Crisis in the Kremlin where the format of "managing a nation through event chains and spreadsheet line-go-up toggles" would work incredibly well.

Plus, to be honest, I'd love to see the people who put in all that effort to write and create something do it on their own terms and not on the back of a mid-tier strategy game.

 

[Moja Zemlja]

I'm of the opinion only the major nations need content. First that was personal preference but now seeing big mods like KR and TNO I think its a rule that is needed. It keep getting brought up every now and then but its become an issue consistently in HOI4 mods where some minor like fucking Haiti has a large ass focus tree while say Germany has nothing. Strangely TNO on launch sorta had this mindset. USA and Germany were essentially the only nations with content with Japan coming in third and having some unfinished events.

Minors having content is fine the issue is that its always minors that end up having no influence beyond regional conflicts, one of my favourite minors to play in KR is Ostasien because not only will you end up playing a part in the coming world war but the NF you get from the start raising the volunteer division cap encourages you to constantly intervene in favour of Germany.

 

[Rome's rightful successor]

I think it's a matter of laziness and the fact that most of these losers who make these mods have obsessive autistic hyperfocuses on obscure literally-whos from history.

Well part of the appeal of hoi4 alt history mods has always been about putting a spotlight on the obscure and overshadowed. Part of the appeal of kaiserreich was that it was the b-list historical figure's taking on the Churchill, Hitler, and Stalin role with people who really could have played those roles. Red Flood took this a step forward by having figures like Antonin Artaud involved in a scenario even further removed from our real life world. Part of the fun is learning about someone you've never heard of before.

 

[EpicGamerMoment]

Well part of the appeal of hoi4 alt history mods has always been about putting a spotlight on the obscure and overshadowed. Part of the appeal of kaiserreich was that it was the b-list historical figure's taking on the Churchill, Hitler, and Stalin role with people who really could have played those roles. Red Flood took this a step forward by having figures like Antonin Artaud involved in a scenario even further removed from our real life world. Part of the fun is learning about someone you've never heard of before.

The problem stems from having these autistic hyperfocuses lead to fanfiction and turning them into anti-heroes with character arcs which is gay as hell

 

[Grave Ghost]

all honestly I am a massive fan of wacky alt history paths in HoI4, so Iron Curtain isn't exactly my cup of tea, cool mod but not something I am coming back to often. Being able to save Rhodesia is cool, but I also want the ability to collapse the USSR and create the Russian Federation in the 60s, as tired as the trope is I want to plunge the USA into a second Civil war and make the south rise again. I am one of the Filthy alt history meme path enjoyers.

The alternate paths in Iron Curtain are so damn boring too. I'm fairly certain that the CSA does in fact have cores in Dixie, as well as a few being owned by some African nationalist state. Would be cool to see a second civil war that can start over the civil rights act but I doubt that the devs would want to implement that and making a submod looks like it would be a headache inducing mess. At least the alternate USSR dissolution paths look interesting, I just hope that they add a 1990 or 1989 start date so you don't have to just sit and wait. Also what is Wallace's path like? I never had the patience to wait for that mod to chug along to 1968.

 

[The Foxtrot]

I just hope that they add a 1990 or 1989 start date so you don't have to just sit and wait.

The problem is the start dates from 1960/1973 don't include any bonuses from focuses/population growth/technological progression that said nation would've had historically. For example, playing as East Germany in 1960/1973, you start off with the same building slots, population, technology, etc. that you'd have started with in 1949. So you're starting far behind the historical curve and that's progress you can't make up for later in the game.

It'd be awesome if the mod devs would code things so starting later on in the Cold War you'd be picking up where that nation was historically, and also giving you the bonuses from the Historical National Focuses. So the USSR doesn't have the "Antiquated Infrastructure" debuff if starting in '60 or '73, East Germany gets the Infrastructure and Building Slot boots from the rebuilding National Foci, all the relevant nations benefit from the Marshal Plan, etc. while the technology is either all at the 1955/1960 mark for the 1960 start or the 1970 mark for the 1973 start.

 

[Rome's rightful successor]

I just hope that they add a 1990 or 1989 start date

1989 for sure, you got to start in the lead up to the fall of the Berlin Wall before the fall of the Soviet Union.

 

[Chuckwagon]

BTWH has hit another snag, apparently their dev team imploded and at least three of their devs (including 1 lead) ragequit over some debate over the new Israeli-Palestinian conflict which also got them to shut down their political channel entirely. Unfortunately, I missed it before the lock because I can't be as terminally online as these losers, but from what I can tell it started because somebody posted some of Vaush's retardation and the devs who walked were 'Disdaimonia' (lead dev, seems to have been mostly working on the VIP tags and Michigan content), 'AzureStarPaladin' (worked on Baltimore/Capitol Military District content) and 'shibubobble' (seems to have worked on the ideologies & other mechanical stuff?). I did see AzureStarPaladin saying something along the lines of 'Hamas bad'and Israel bad but gassing all kikes also bad' earlier that day, so I assume these people walked because the others went full Hasan Piker, got a little too eager to decolonize the Jews and then tried to struggle-session them when they disagreed.

The remainder insist their mod is still totally not dead and have decided to sequester all further political autism into a separate Discord channel, which I frankly have no interest in joining because I know it's just going to be more of the same old insanity. These people don't have a single original political thought to offer, it's literally all just regurgitating modern academic intersectional 'decolonization' & rainbow soup claptrap.

Spoiler: The fallout

I can't apply enough to that last statement, AFAIK this is a much bigger hit to the mod's development than dropping the CHAZ founder because the devs who left did actual work and weren't just glorified hypemen (for comparison, one of the other devs with a pink name up in those images, 'you'/'Carys' - also the one who dealt the final backstab to CHAZ kween Laura/Logan Couch - just came back not too long ago after a months-long absence from the BTWH server). If BTWH still had even the most remote chance of coming out as at least the limited demo version with only 4 playable tags before this, that chance has almost certainly evaporated entirely, for which I must thank Hamas & Netanyahu.

 

[RA-5C Vigilante]

Hard to feel sad about this, BTWH always reeked of shitty wish-fulfillment and a situation of having far too many cooks in a small kitchen. Not surprised it ran into disaster, and I'd be less surprised if this kills it.

 

[Rome's rightful successor]

Saw this gif posted on a hoi4 mod server and it reminded me, what is Panzer and Pacifica doing now?

 

[VariableOverflow]

Saw this gif posted on a hoi4 mod server and it reminded me, what is Panzer and Pacifica doing now?

I know Panzer is still working on Godherja at a steady pace from the looks of it, Pacifica is probably still working for Paradox on Vic3. Don't know if Pacifica is still on the TNO team, probably not active at least.

And they're both still pretending to be women, of course. Still my favorite bit of HoI4 modding scene lore, how Pacifica succeeded in using TNO as a springboard to join Paradox proper, which is basically what was Panzer's whole goal with the project, and then Panzer apparently figured it must have been the pronouns that lead to Pacifica being hired, so he followed suit, but that didn't quite work out.