Plagued /r/TNOmod and the Reddit HOI4 modding community - When a subreddit for a video game mod turns to utter insanity

Seriously off-topic, but I actually think Victoria 3 might be better than 2. Victoria 2 is really not that great a game and its economy is utterly broken. The AI just taxes its citizens to death and hoards money in national treasuries, creating a liquidity crisis that destroys the global economy, and goods instantly teleport anywhere, so blockades don't work. It's also impossible to represent the first world war properly in game, which should be the climactic conflict.

Even if Victoria 3 is a bit broken at release, it could easily end up being better than a game in which you can attract millions of immigrants as Haiti by declaring war on Sikkim and using the militancy to pass liberal reforms.

Going back to TNO, there is apparently going to be an Axis victory mod for Victoria 3. Hopefully it doesn't have Atlantropa or other unrealistic nonsense.
 
Problem with Paradox is that they at the moment have de facto monopol on whole Grand Strategy genre . Maybe I am missing something , but outside of couple smaller indie project there is nobody else making GS.
So Paradox can get away with doing shit because where will their playerbase go
you have that guy who developed the World War I mod who went on to make his own game, although I don’t think it’ll be good or as successful as what paradox does.
 
i9gweiv7rj171.png

Someone made mod popularity comparison on hoi4 Reddit. According to Paradox statistics.
 
Millenium Dawn is an excellent sleep aid idk about it being a good mod though
If nuclear weapons worked it would be. World tension would actually mean something since your country would go kaboom if it hit 100%.

Cold War: Iron Curtain does have nuclear weapons and is a bit better, but still a work in progress.
 
Cold War: Iron Curtain does have nuclear weapons and is a bit better, but still a work in progress.
They seem to be dead set on taking any fun paths out of the mod for "realism" (Soviet-Chinese war after the Sino Soviet Split, electing Dixiecrats doesn't change America that much, and they're planning on removing the Otto Remer path from West Germany) so eventually the only alt history you'll see is a democratic socialist winning an election instead of the conservatives which is pretty boring for a mod that covers so much time.
 
They seem to be dead set on taking any fun paths out of the mod for "realism" (Soviet-Chinese war after the Sino Soviet Split, electing Dixiecrats doesn't change America that much, and they're planning on removing the Otto Remer path from West Germany) so eventually the only alt history you'll see is a democratic socialist winning an election instead of the conservatives which is pretty boring for a mod that covers so much time.
I can't believe paradox Is going for wacky alt history and many mods that used to be fun are going for muh realism
 
They seem to be dead set on taking any fun paths out of the mod for "realism" (Soviet-Chinese war after the Sino Soviet Split, electing Dixiecrats doesn't change America that much, and they're planning on removing the Otto Remer path from West Germany) so eventually the only alt-history you'll see is a democratic socialist winning an election instead of the conservatives which is pretty boring for a mod that covers so much time.
I'm pretty sure the "nuke your enemies to death" path is still there, though, which was the main actual alt-history possibility during that period. Cold war alt-history would usually end in kaboom since it almost did over Cuba in real life anyway.

The USSR did consider a pre-emptive strike on China, so that kaboom option should stay. I agree with getting rid of Remer, though, since he had about as much chance of taking power as Carl Benjamin. I'd leave unified neutral Germany as the alt-history option.
 
I'm pretty sure the "nuke your enemies to death" path is still there, though, which was the main actual alt-history possibility during that period. Cold war alt-history would usually end in kaboom since it almost did over Cuba in real life anyway.

The USSR did consider a pre-emptive strike on China, so that kaboom option should stay. I agree with getting rid of Remer, though, since he had about as much chance of taking power as Carl Benjamin. I'd leave unified neutral Germany as the alt-history option.
As an ex-dev there I agree that the mod sticks a bit too close to realism for my tastes. Although I believe they started to implement more althist, albeit still largely grounded in reality; no wackiness.

Guess the mod just targets a completely different audience than, say, Kaiserreich or TNO.
 
As an ex-dev there I agree that the mod sticks a bit too close to realism for my tastes. Although I believe they started to implement more althist, albeit still largely grounded in reality; no wackiness.

Guess the mod just targets a completely different audience than, say, Kaiserreich or TNO.
It does, because it's not a fictional setting. There is a lot of plausible cold war alternate history (Italy/France flips communist, WW3 breaks out, etc), but I do agree that Germany shouldn't be allowed to just resurrect the Reich because that was the one thing the rival superpowers could actually agree on. I'm fine with implausible but not impossible, which is why I dislike Atlantropa and the giant hole in the Congo in TNO.

I think you're overstating how much alt history was removed. They're adding a whole load of alternate USSR stuff like Malenkov/Beria and the country surviving 1991. It's not supposed to be railroaded when it's done.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Kanuckski
It does, because it's not a fictional setting. There is a lot of plausible cold war alternate history (Italy/France flips communist, WW3 breaks out, etc), but I do agree that Germany shouldn't be allowed to just resurrect the Reich because that was the one thing the rival superpowers could actually agree on.
Well yes, I don't think it should be there either; never said lack of wacky shit was a bad thing. People asking for Nazi or Monarchist Germany paths were an internal meme in the dev team.

I like the direction the mod is going in right now. Also I admit I didn't play it in a while now (I barely touch HOI4 recently) and I largely cut myself off from the community so I might not know the extent of their alternate history plans.
 
Well yes, I don't think it should be there either; never said lack of wacky shit was a bad thing. People asking for Nazi or Monarchist Germany paths were an internal meme in the dev team.

I like the direction the mod is going in right now. Also I admit I didn't play it in a while now (I barely touch HOI4 recently) and I largely cut myself off from the community so I might not know the extent of their alternate history plans.
The mod is in early development at the moment. Some countries like Indonesia have no content and the economy system doesn't work properly so GDPs grow far too big. Once it's progressed a bit more it could be good.

Victoria 3 also opens new possibilities for cold war mods when it comes out.
 
View attachment 2206381
Someone made mod popularity comparison on hoi4 Reddit. According to Paradox statistics.
Considering that the last proper update was in January, this is not really surprising.

What's really interesting is how Toolbox Theory and the following three updates will affect the stats. The devs are obviously gunning for new heights, but I don't think this will be the case - my prediction is that these patches will provide fairly minor bumps to the player count, with none of them ever topping the post-release peak it had.

TT might have a lot of effort behind it, but it's also a mere mechanics update. There are no new countries to play, and I think that this will severely diminish its mass appeal - exploring a brand new story and setting is obviously loads of fun and easily digestible, but a mostly behind-the-scenes update that turns "always do x" into "always do x unless y, then do z instead" with some minor global flavor tacked on simply isn't as marketable as a traditional country update. I'm sure that a lot of effort went into TT, but that effort will be barely visible due to nature of the update.

Now, the other 3 updates are supposed to be more content-focused, but what will they actually change? First, we need to look at status the mod will be in at their release. According to a Dev, it's virtually ensured that all of them will release in 2021, so I'm going to be generous here and assume that they will magically hit that deadline and release in December this year, which would be the first time the TNO team would ever hit a deadline.

Even in this case - what then? The TNO community already shrunk circa 40% after 4 months of no content updates, and December is still 7 months out. If the current trend continues, the community will be roughly 25% as big as it was in January, which obviously isn't exactly a promising launchpad for a new hype train.

The content itself will also be simply not that popular. Most important countries people would actually want to play like Germany or the US are already finished, and convincing people to care about a nation they never even heard of before is an immensely difficult task. Who gives a shit about Guangdong, or the Levant? Ireland, which released with CRF, had the same issue, and barely anyone plays it - hell, most players don't even know it's playable at all.

Couple this with the issue of the team leadership being less receptive to "funny" concepts like old Burgundy or the Aryan Brotherhood, and it quickly becomes clear just how little of an impact these updates will cause. TNO will never die due to drama, but it's pretty much assured that it'll slowly fade away into irrelevancy - a shrinking community also inevitably leads to a shrinking team, which just compounds content shortage. The first wave of updates will release, and the second one most likely too, but anything past that is uncertain. It has been said dozens of times already, but I'll just reiterate the obvious here - TNO2 will never release.
 
Considering that the last proper update was in January, this is not really surprising.

What's really interesting is how Toolbox Theory and the following three updates will affect the stats. The devs are obviously gunning for new heights, but I don't think this will be the case - my prediction is that these patches will provide fairly minor bumps to the player count, with none of them ever topping the post-release peak it had.

TT might have a lot of effort behind it, but it's also a mere mechanics update. There are no new countries to play, and I think that this will severely diminish its mass appeal - exploring a brand new story and setting is obviously loads of fun and easily digestible, but a mostly behind-the-scenes update that turns "always do x" into "always do x unless y, then do z instead" with some minor global flavor tacked on simply isn't as marketable as a traditional country update. I'm sure that a lot of effort went into TT, but that effort will be barely visible due to nature of the update.

Now, the other 3 updates are supposed to be more content-focused, but what will they actually change? First, we need to look at status the mod will be in at their release. According to a Dev, it's virtually ensured that all of them will release in 2021, so I'm going to be generous here and assume that they will magically hit that deadline and release in December this year, which would be the first time the TNO team would ever hit a deadline.

Even in this case - what then? The TNO community already shrunk circa 40% after 4 months of no content updates, and December is still 7 months out. If the current trend continues, the community will be roughly 25% as big as it was in January, which obviously isn't exactly a promising launchpad for a new hype train.

The content itself will also be simply not that popular. Most important countries people would actually want to play like Germany or the US are already finished, and convincing people to care about a nation they never even heard of before is an immensely difficult task. Who gives a shit about Guangdong, or the Levant? Ireland, which released with CRF, had the same issue, and barely anyone plays it - hell, most players don't even know it's playable at all.

Couple this with the issue of the team leadership being less receptive to "funny" concepts like old Burgundy or the Aryan Brotherhood, and it quickly becomes clear just how little of an impact these updates will cause. TNO will never die due to drama, but it's pretty much assured that it'll slowly fade away into irrelevancy - a shrinking community also inevitably leads to a shrinking team, which just compounds content shortage. The first wave of updates will release, and the second one most likely too, but anything past that is uncertain. It has been said dozens of times already, but I'll just reiterate the obvious here - TNO2 will never release.
I was going to say 1970s content would definitely bring hype, but if you're right and it never happens then it's pretty dead.
 
Ah, damn, I slept through the Gone Ham thread although it quickly turned into an Anarcho-Doxer (the sperg OP) thread.
Anarcho-Doxer was really annoying, wanting people to join his shitty server. Also he kept asking me to help him pirate games.

He probably also thought he had an ally in me against Ham because I kept calling him a faggot (even though it was just banter). Nobody really cared about him though, he was the obnoxious retard trying to make a name for himself by the means of Discord Server drama. And he really got into the "Hunting Pedos" LARP.
 
Last edited:
Back