Off-Topic Random Trans Thoughts, Musings, and Questions - For all your armchair psych and general sperging

[Thiletonomics]

With the number of people that commit crimes and get arrested for them, only to come out as trans afterwards, how many of them are only doing it to try to get easier sentencing? And has there been an instance where a criminal that troons out does get a reduced sentence, or even gets the charges dropped completely?

It didn't work for that Missouri murderer and child rapist that trooned out because he still got off'd, but with him not getting spared death after trooning out, and the increasingly open distain for troons, will the number of criminals that troon out will decrease? Or will people still try to do so, hoping to become the next martyr?

 

[bouquetnine]

With the number of people that commit crimes and get arrested for them, only to come out as trans afterwards, how many of them are only doing it to try to get easier sentencing? And has there been an instance where a criminal that troons out does get a reduced sentence, or even gets the charges dropped completely?

It didn't work for that Missouri murderer and child rapist that trooned out because he still got off'd, but with him not getting spared death after trooning out, and the increasingly open distain for troons, will the number of criminals that troon out will decrease? Or will people still try to do so, hoping to become the next martyr?

Caitlyn Jenner basically evaded a vehicular manslaughter charge.

I imagine a lot of them do it to get access to women's prisons.

 

[deermeat]

I love how TiMs use TiFs high detransition rate as evidence that pooners are fake and less valid than those gosh darn poor trans girlies.
When in reality, it shows women are less narcissistic and more willing to accept the errors of their ways.
Also keep in mind, the most common abuser for a pooner is a TiM, while for the average TiM their common abusers are other TiMs. If you are a woman who truly struggles what a normie would feel is Gender Dsyphoria yet all you see are TiMs being sexual degenerates who never dealt with GD prior all the while bashing you for being a "trans man" while other handmaiden pooners bash you as well- I am sure you are gonna start questioning if there are other ways to treat your GD.
You could say "ah welp sucks to be treated like a man, huh" but thats not what is happening, to the average normie being trans is all about having GD where you only transition because its the best treatment for it. Yet the people bashing the average pooner for being a "man" are the most obvious posers who openly talk about how porn made them trans, yet these are the same people these pooners are supposed to bow down to and act like they have it harder? Nah man. Combine that with the medical issues and I can see how it could peak someone.

The non-narc men who know they fucked up usually end up killing themselves rather than detroon because of what estrogen does to the male body and how most of them were straight men with a porn addiction. Women don't want a man with a dick that shrunk and gyno, as well as the other health issues that come from E. Women don't want a man with a mutliated crotch. He will never be able to have a family or be normal ever again after that. Men are more likely to kill themselves over situations like these while women tend to bear the burden. Thats not to say men are weaker or anything, its just thats how it usually goes.

 

[Albicilla]

Also keep in mind, the most common abuser for a pooner is a TiM, while for the average TiM their common abusers are other TiMs. If you are a woman who truly struggles what a normie would feel is Gender Dsyphoria yet all you see are TiMs being sexual degenerates who never dealt with GD prior all the while bashing you for being a "trans man" while other handmaiden pooners bash you as well- I am sure you are gonna start questioning if there are other ways to treat your GD.
You could say "ah welp sucks to be treated like a man, huh" but thats not what is happening, to the average normie being trans is all about having GD where you only transition because its the best treatment for it. Yet the people bashing the average pooner for being a "man" are the most obvious posers who openly talk about how porn made them trans, yet these are the same people these pooners are supposed to bow down to and act like they have it harder? Nah man. Combine that with the medical issues and I can see how it could peak someone

When I was a teen in trans spaces on tumblr, I noticed this phenomenon exactly, and it still seems to happen elsewhere. Transmen would be talking about their own issues, and then you'd have transwomen coming in to pick fights. If transmen got angry, you'd have not only other transwomen, but women, and transmen not a part of this particular space busting in to harass you and send you angry asks and death threats. The original discussion never mentioned nor remarked on transwomen anyway, but ofc this is the same site that defended one (was it Sarah Nyberg? can't remember if this is the name lmao) after they came out admitting to raping an 8 y/o boy, because it would "harm all transwomen" to say that an out and out proven child rapist was a child rapist.

I still don't have the disdain most kiwis here have towards trans people, mostly because I;m friends with pretty normal and reasonable trans people and know trans people irl that don't engage in nonsense mentally ill spaces, but the biases that exist in trans spaces against transmen are readily apparent, even before the influx of ROGD and social contagion triggered pooners. Wasn't there a unisex trans space on reddit that had a lot of drama, because transmen were expressing frustration with how okay it was for transwomen to treat them like shit and demean them (including weird sexual harassment), whereas even the fraction of the reverse behaviour would never have been allowed? Wish I could find the screens like that, but one would think that with how much more intersexual interactions can be seen with trans people in the last decade, some of this behaviour would've fallen off.

Alas.

 

[The Morning Visitor]

He will never be able to have a family or be normal ever again after that. Men are more likely to kill themselves over situations like these while women tend to bear the burden. Thats not to say men are weaker or anything, its just thats how it usually goes.

Do you think the discrepancy here is the balance in human mating dynamics?

Men have to struggle, compete, prove themselves to be adequate providers in order to breed and pass on their genetics, but are virile indefinitely, from puberty onwards. Barring birth defects and rare reproductive conditions, all women have access to reproduction, but the fertility window will close on each and every one of them halfway through their lives. Are ex-pooners able to better cope with sterility than troons because women know that sterility is inevitable?

 

[Paper Machete]

I lot of pooners don't transition medically, or are only on T for short periods of time. On that end they damage their bodies less and we forgive women fucking up like that a lot more than we do men for a multiple of reasons. The ones of both sexes that got far down the medical path though are kind of fucked. I think I know of only two detransers that went on to have kids, publicly at least. A romantic relationship would be difficult as it is but with kids invovled? Honestly, I think anyone who would chose to have children with an ex tranny is retarded. The base problems that made them susceptible to the trans cult in the first place are still there and will always need to be managed.

Really, what sane woman would go for a guy that she knows was a total gooner that went whole hog on a fetish to the point he poisoned his body, shrunk his dick/got the ditch installed, went prison gay, etc. You'd be brain damaged to say "yeah, but he has such a great personality!" It's sort of the same thing as with an ex-addict. There is always a danger it'll flare up again, or they'll need something else compulsive to distract themselves, or whatever demons that make them wanna do it in the first place cause problems in other ways. (Pretty much every single one of them is incredibly misogynistic unironically though too.)

It's a nice story that everyone heals and gets to move on from things and be "cleansed" but reality is that it's rarely a good option to be with someone like that. I think there are just more guys out there desperate enough and/or they don't have to consider other aspects of it because men can be more threatening to women than the reverse.

(Of course, this is all from the perspective of knowing what I know. I think a lot of ex trannies probably keep a lot of info to themselves and whoever they may end up with is likely ignorant of the full extent of what it all entailed.)

 

[Trapper]

Do you think the discrepancy here is the balance in human mating dynamics?

Men have to struggle, compete, prove themselves to be adequate providers in order to breed and pass on their genetics, but are virile indefinitely, from puberty onwards. Barring birth defects and rare reproductive conditions, all women have access to reproduction, but the fertility window will close on each and every one of them halfway through their lives. Are ex-pooners able to better cope with sterility than troons because women know that sterility is inevitable?

Not everything is down to evolutionary psychology in such direct terms as that, though the self preservation instincts are different between the sexes. Men commit suicide more often than women generally, it’s not known exactly why but a combination of factors are behind it. Men are less likely to seek help for depression, more likely to use alcohol as a coping mechanism, more likely to own guns, or work in isolating and physically demanding jobs. For the mating dynamic theory, some men really don’t cope well on their own and see having sexual partners as their main purpose in life.

Men’s fertility declines around the same age that women’s do - not to the same extent, but the sperm is degraded, it’s harder to conceive, and the resulting offspring is more likely to have autism or schizophrenia. Combine that with a loss of strength and attractiveness and you get a midlife crisis.

I don’t even think it’s a case of detrans females having more support around them than men, as men with loving family and friends still off themselves.

 

[TruffleSpark]

I love how TiMs use TiFs high detransition rate as evidence that pooners are fake and less valid than those gosh darn poor trans girlies.
When in reality, it shows women are less narcissistic and more willing to accept the errors of their ways.

Also I think TiFs detrans at a higher rate than TiMs because TiMs treat TiFs like garbage. But because their religion revloves around not hurting TiM feelings they can't really talk about it unless they hide it behind retard code talking about made up things like "transandrophobia."

When I was a teen in trans spaces on tumblr, I noticed this phenomenon exactly, and it still seems to happen elsewhere. Transmen would be talking about their own issues, and then you'd have transwomen coming in to pick fights. If transmen got angry, you'd have not only other transwomen, but women, and transmen not a part of this particular space busting in to harass you and send you angry asks and death threats. The original discussion never mentioned nor remarked on transwomen anyway, but ofc this is the same site that defended one (was it Sarah Nyberg? can't remember if this is the name lmao) after they came out admitting to raping an 8 y/o boy, because it would "harm all transwomen" to say that an out and out proven child rapist was a child rapist.

Personally I think that a community being seen publicly defending a child rapist would be far more harmful to that community than having that community just tacitly acknowledge that sometimes there are members of the community who also happen to do evil things. But maybe I need to be more mentally ill in order to understand this thinking.

 

[Hassou Tobi]

Yes, I remember reading trans subreddits even back in like 2012. TIFs were barely even mentioned except to shit on them for "male privilege." The few times there was a post like a photoshoot of a TIF from a magazine it would just be full of angry comments from TIMs about "must be nice that this is all you have to worry about!"

In more mask off male troon spaces they openly mock pooners for being feminine and pathetic (well, guess I can't blame them too much for that) and even say things like "it shouldn't be allowed because they are throwing away one of the greatest gifts." (which- talk about right for the wrong reasons.)

I think a lot of the hostility towards detransitioners (besides the obvious reasons) IS because they're generally female and it's just another outlet to hate women. Double so with ones like Chloe Cole who are cute and feminine looking still.

 

[deermeat]

I feel like one of the woes with normalizing cross dressing, at least with men, is that female clothing is inherently sexualized, whether you wanna admit or not. Yet they play dumb and act like its society not allowing them to "be feminine".
No one cares about a gay man wearing makeup and wigs, thats not weird. Its weird when that gay man starts to wear mini skirts and revealing dresses. Its weird when a lot of cross dressers chose to wear things not suited for their age.

This is the problem I have when people view women wearing mens clothes as cross dressing. "Mens clothes" is stuff like T shirts, jeans, and boxers. None of that is sexual. Do you know how uncomfortable a lot of womens clothes are? Do you know how many times Ive seen women try to normalize "form over function "?

Society doesn't bash cross dressing men because wahh wahh men have it so hard. Tbh Im tired of men complaining about how hard they have it bc its never criticism in regards to other men, which is the root of their problems just like how others women are the root of womens problems. Its always directed toward women. Its not my fault men consider you a faggot and personally I think its normal for women to be put off when you want to wear their lingerie.

 

[Albicilla]

Personally I think that a community being seen publicly defending a child rapist would be far more harmful to that community than having that community just tacitly acknowledge that sometimes there are members of the community who also happen to do evil things. But maybe I need to be more mentally ill in order to understand this thinking.

You're absolutely right that this makes them look so much worse, but this is what happens when a gathering of a demographic gets twisted into a weird cultic religious space: all logic goes out the window. This has happened multiple times in these types of spaces, to the point where I've seen some rape victims remaining silent lest they "hurt the community", and it reminds me of a case like 10 years ago of a European reporter getting gang raped by refugees and choosing to keep it quiet to avoid getting the people that raped him deported. This type of ideology is suicidal and untenable, and everyone within it has this narcissistic self-hatred or is too meek to go against it; on the bright side, that makes it a self-limiting disease.

 

[The Morning Visitor]

Men’s fertility declines around the same age that women’s do - not to the same extent, but the sperm is degraded, it’s harder to conceive, and the resulting offspring is more likely to have autism or schizophrenia.

I'll have to take your word for it. I think it was Bill Burr that had a bit about "old sperm babies" (babies from a 50+ year old father) looking sicklier, and it stands to reason that as various organ functions decline in efficiency, the sperm quality would also be in decline, but most men don't even think about this. Most of us keep shooting live rounds without thinking about the quality of the lead or the casing, and think we could knock up younger women with success if we take a little zinc, drink some water, exercise and lay off the preservatives/dyes. We don't have infertility looming over our shoulders as a certainty, so it might stand to reason that we're a bit more prone to regretting sterilizing ourselves, even if the reality is that a 50 year old's baby batter will make sperg children.

Just some food for thought.

 

[Chappell's Lost Earring]

Transmen would be talking about their own issues, and then you'd have transwomen coming in to pick fights. If transmen got angry, you'd have not only other transwomen, but women, and transmen not a part of this particular space busting in to harass you and send you angry asks and death threats.

This really just reinforces the idea that the transmen are AGP narcissists who have somehow gotten women and most of society on their side. I tried flipping through a few books by transwomen to see what they really think, to try to get inside their heads. The jist I got was that masculinity is evil, and that they want to be sheltered by womanhood and feminism. One book I checked out was called I'm Afraid of Men by Vivek Shraya (wonder if he has a thread).

Spoiler: Here is the synposis

A powerful meditation on the damaging effects of masculinity from a trans girl--a writer with celebrated indie roots and a knack for dismantling assumptions and challenging the status quo. Toxic masculinity takes many insidious forms, from misogyny and sexual harassment to homophobia, transphobia, and bullying. Vivek Shraya has firsthand experience with nearly all of them. As a boy, Vivek exhibited "feminine" qualities. The men in her life immediately and violently disapproved. They taught her to fear the word girl by turning it into a weapon used to hurt her. They taught her to hate her femininity, to destroy the best parts of herself. In order to survive, Vivek had to learn to convincingly perform masculinity. As a girl, she's still afraid. Having spent years undoing the damage and salvaging her lost girlhood, she is haunted by the violence of men, seldom dressing the way she wants in public. As a result she is often still perceived as male, stirring feelings of guilt and self-doubt: Am I not feminine enough? Is this my fault for striving to be the perfect man and excelling at it? I'm Afraid of Men is a culmination of the years Vivek spent observing men and creating her own version of manhood. Through deeply personal reflection, she offers a rare and multifaceted perspective on gender and a hopeful reimagining of masculinity at a time when it's needed more than ever."-- Provided by publisher.

I doubt you get much more out of it by reading the book. It was very short, as if someone printed an article. The synposis is enough to understand his point.

They believe that masculinity is harmful to them and is the root of all their problems. Kind of the opposite of pooners, who believe their femininity is the root of all their problems. All I am seeing now is people that were bullied as kids for being outside the gender norms (or just sexually abused), and decided it would be best to cast that aside to transcend to their new gender and escape the bullying and abuse.

The part about the damaging effects of masculinity such as sexual harassment and bullying is not a new concept. I don't think Vivek is giving us anything of substance with that one. This is essentially something feminists and women have been noticing for years. But since Vivek was a little girly little faggot, he also got the brunt of the bullying. Now he wants to pretend to be a woman and get the same protections that women and feminism offer to trans people, while the AGP fetish troons sneak into our ranks and our spaces and prey on us.

I know that trans people exist out there that don't care to hurt anyone else, but quite often I wonder how many of them are AGP fetishists, even if they do mean no harm. Is it 50%? 90%? 99%? 100%?? I really can't tell. It's hard to know the truth on these forums where all we see are the worst cases. But at the same time, I don't really care to get to know any and find out. I have seen enough to know I don't want to be close with any of them. For similar reasons as to why I won't be close to random men, drug addicts, or criminals. I've seen too many horror stories that my initial trust of them is very low.

Men’s fertility declines around the same age that women’s do - not to the same extent, but the sperm is degraded, it’s harder to conceive, and the resulting offspring is more likely to have autism or schizophrenia. Combine that with a loss of strength and attractiveness and you get a midlife crisis.

This is definitely true, and I'm glad someone pointed it out. It doesn't stop men from believing they are virile indefinitely, so I think that The Morning Visitor still has a point.

 

[Comp0site Specter]

I recent thought I had was the presence of trooning out among breadtube types (pooning much less so). Most of breadtubers are men by my guess by about 70:30. The only thing that comes to mind for this is when you are a true believer in these aspect such as toxic masculinity and percieving as say anti-intellectual or lacking in empathy. From this they would then try to purge the masculinity from themselves, I don't think they are as AGP as the general troon community.

 

[Paper Machete]

From this they would then try to purge the masculinity from themselves, I don't think they are as AGP as the general troon community.

To be honest I think it doesn't matter whether your started there or ended up there (there being autogynophilia) it will manifest as part of the process anyway. Because that is sort of what it means to go through all that. The longer they're in the incestuous tranny stew that they call their friend groups and thought circles, the more inevitable it becomes.

 

[Tragon Dirtle]

I recent thought I had was the presence of trooning out among breadtube types (pooning much less so). Most of breadtubers are men by my guess by about 70:30. The only thing that comes to mind for this is when you are a true believer in these aspect such as toxic masculinity and percieving as say anti-intellectual or lacking in empathy. From this they would then try to purge the masculinity from themselves, I don't think they are as AGP as the general troon community.

you're overthinking it, it's not out of commitment to feminist morals it's what gives them engagement and dominance within their social circles. They are inherently demanding, attention-seeking and narcissistic to have become long term youtube preachers of social justice.

 

[The Morning Visitor]

you're overthinking it, it's not out of commitment to feminist morals it's what gives them engagement and dominance within their social circles. They are inherently demanding, attention-seeking and narcissistic to have become long term youtube preachers of social justice.

Yeah, I highly doubt Ian "I have a folder of preteen anime girls sucking horsecock" Kochinski is an actual feminist. Vaush is just seeking power, and the one way he found that power was being the only white democratic socialist willing to say "nigger" on air to disarm alt-righters.

Actual feminists care about keeping men out of womens' locker rooms, prisons and sports, even if it's with the "misogynistic" undertone that women are physically weaker on average. Because they are.

 

[Albicilla]

The part about the damaging effects of masculinity such as sexual harassment and bullying is not a new concept. I don't think Vivek is giving us anything of substance with that one. This is essentially something feminists and women have been noticing for years. But since Vivek was a little girly little faggot, he also got the brunt of the bullying. Now he wants to pretend to be a woman and get the same protections that women and feminism offer to trans people, while the AGP fetish troons sneak into our ranks and our spaces and prey on us.

It sounds like from that synopsis you provided that they're using a popular radical feminist anti-bioessentialist framework for their transition. A lot of trans-inclusionary radfem spaces are populated with transwomen like this. On another note related to this, and I spoke about this with a trans friend that agreed: a lot less people that fall under the traditional, most acceptable view of being a transwoman would transition if their intractable femininity was accommodated better. There are many men that are hardwired to be notably more feminine on average, and not allowing healthy acceptance of this pushes them into this role that is often more acceptable in many cultures, but comes with the baggage of extensive body modification and potential sterility.

Many people will say that these people can "just be feminine men", which should be the case, but oftentimes, due to experience, many of them come to the conclusion that they cannot, even as adults.

I brought up the trans YTer Lee Francis in a different thread, but this is the exact reason why they transitioned, and it had very bitter results with botched SRS and is leading to them doing sex work in a desperate bid to appeal to people and fund more surgeries. They deleted their videos before this year that I could bring up to prove my point, but they're a lot more listless and spaced out in their newer ones, with their content on YT being a gateway to their OF, not to mention a thinly veiled way to appeal to the most extreme of feminisation fetishists. They told their story in one video of the bullying they suffered from being a feminine gay man, the abuse from gay partners, and how they saw transition as access to cultural acceptance and more loving men. Before their transition, they even got cosmetic surgery on the other end with jaw implants and tried to affect masculinity that they just couldn't. According to them, they had no gender dysphoria as a child, but they were intractably gay and feminine. They're from New Zealand, and apparently the culture isn't the friendliest towards people like him.

This is someone who should've been accepted as he was and took a difficult road to fit in a little better and suffer from a little less loneliness. He's expressed a disgust with homosexuality, and has said that his transition was a way to escape the "gay lifestyle", essentially. He's said since having a bunch of cosmetic surgery and no longer being read as a man, he's had a lot more acceptance within his culture, even if he's lost his ability to have sexually functional relationships. He ripped up his body for a modicum of human decency, and probably has more extreme baggage than Vivek.

In terms of the AGP child groomers, they've done an insane disservice to other more decent trans people, and they'll basically steal the valour of those in their community sustaining the worst of the backlash, while receiving none of it themselves in their cosy safe blue state with the aid of a cultish commnity shielding them.

 

[Chappell's Lost Earring]

This really just reinforces the idea that the transmen are AGP narcissists

I meant to say transwomen there.

@Albicilla The following isn't meant to be argumentative. I enjoyed reading your perspective - these are just my thoughts.

On another note related to this, and I spoke about this with a trans friend that agreed: a lot less people that fall under the traditional, most acceptable view of being a transwoman would transition if their intractable femininity was accommodated better. There are many men that are hardwired to be notably more feminine on average, and not allowing healthy acceptance of this pushes them into this role that is often more acceptable in many cultures, but comes with the baggage of extensive body modification and potential sterility.

Many people will say that these people can "just be feminine men", which should be the case, but oftentimes, due to experience, many of them come to the conclusion that they cannot, even as adults.

No one is forcing them to take hormones or undergo the dick chop. I understand that they are ridiculed and bullied for being less masculine, so in that way, I do feel bad in the same way I do about pooners who were sexually abused. However they have all of the same information available to them as I do, and they chose to destroy their bodies and live in a hugbox with porn addicted AGPs. They chose to continue to groom children and teens to turn to the same lifestyle that harmed them. I understand more of their origin now, but that doesn't their existence any less damaging to impressionable people.

I brought up the trans YTer Lee Francis in a different thread, but this is the exact reason why they transitioned, and it had very bitter results with botched SRS and is leading to them doing sex work in a desperate bid to appeal to people and fund more surgeries. They deleted their videos before this year that I could bring up to prove my point, but they're a lot more listless and spaced out in their newer ones, with their content on YT being a gateway to their OF, not to mention a thinly veiled way to appeal to the most extreme of feminisation fetishists. They told their story in one video of the bullying they suffered from being a feminine gay man, the abuse from gay partners, and how they saw transition as access to cultural acceptance and more loving men. Before their transition, they even got cosmetic surgery on the other end with jaw implants and tried to affect masculinity that they just couldn't. According to them, they had no gender dysphoria as a child, but they were intractably gay and feminine. They're from New Zealand, and apparently the culture isn't the friendliest towards people like him.

This is someone who should've been accepted as he was and took a difficult road to fit in a little better and suffer from a little less loneliness. He's expressed a disgust with homosexuality, and has said that his transition was a way to escape the "gay lifestyle", essentially. He's said since having a bunch of cosmetic surgery and no longer being read as a man, he's had a lot more acceptance within his culture, even if he's lost his ability to have sexually functional relationships. He ripped up his body for a modicum of human decency, and probably has more extreme baggage than Vivek.

Using feminism and femininity to be sheltered from the negative affects of masculinity, just to try to turn themselves into something that caters to porn and male gaze in the end. A sad existence. I did look up this person, and he seems delusional like the rest. I wanted to be understanding, but all I see is someone that needed mental help, not hormones and surgery. The comments on one of his videos says what they always say, it's surgery or suicide. That statement alone shows how mentally ill they are. Anyone who is suicidal needs help. The answer should not be giving in to their desire to self harm.

Spoiler

In terms of the AGP child groomers, they've done an insane disservice to other more decent trans people, and they'll basically steal the valour of those in their community sustaining the worst of the backlash, while receiving none of it themselves in their cosy safe blue state with the aid of a cultish commnity shielding them.

My suspicion is that even transwomen with no sexual misconduct, who are "respectable" people are still narcissists. For example, people such as Sarah McBride, who on paper seems respectable enough, but still something just doesn't sit right with me. My gut feeling is that he is a narc.

Even if AGP isn't their motivation, at some point they were a man wearing womens clothes and getting turned on by it imagining themselves as women, even in the privacy of their own homes. I am struggling to see a difference between trans women and cross dressers, other than somehow getting society to go along with the delusion that they are women. Even the most innocent and feminine among them are just men pretending to be women.

---

I guess now what I am wondering is, did society as whole fail them? Should we have had structures in place to prevent this? Are trans adults capable of making their own decisions regarding their transition? Is it morally correct to allow mentally ill people to advocate for themselves and chose their own type of mental health care, even if it physically harms and mutilates them? Are parents of trans teens and children morally wrong for allowing their children access to hormones, puberty blockers, and srs?

 

[Paper Machete]

I'm sorry. But I don't feel a lick of sympathy for any man complaining about "muh effeminate" because it's really easy to not be bullied for acting like a faggy sperg and you can even do it by doing basic ass shit that actual women do:

- wear normal clothes
- don't go out of your way to buy jewelry or makeup, much less use it
- hold down a job
- know how to do basic maintenance and repairs on your house and car
- learn how to not have over emotional reactions to everything like some sort of toddler

It's just an excuse. I'll grant you some self-loathing gay men from very traditional cultures have a hard time of it. True. But I'm coming at this from a US/western perspective. And no. Here, I'm going to criticize them and tell them to stop their retardation. None of it is necessary. And time and time again a lot of them were never overtly GNC just losers. It's increasingly accepted and even sometimes celebrated now when men are feminized here and this is still what we're getting. So no. Not gonna be the least bit sorry or take it as an excuse.

There is no stolen valor. There is no decent ones. It's maladaptive and wrong regardless of which angle you approach it.