[Resolved] Domain Registrar & Epik's Seizure

[BallsOfaKiwi]

What is the suit going to be about?
The tweet is relatively recent, purportedly half heartedly withdrawn.

Say you sue them for the two statements in the tweet and win, aren't you just getting damages since? Meaning long after Kiwifarms and Epik stoped having a relationship and when the real damage came about from the severing their services the way they did and piling on.

I imagine Epik will offer to settle immediately admitting wrongdoing but only for that one tweet. It will be very hard to prove that the current situation is in any way related to the current tweet, including the issues with finding hosts and the DDOS:ing.
Or is there something else, is that tweet somehow proof that they lied about everything?
I

 

[Man In A Dress]

What is the suit going to be about?
The tweet is relatively recent, purportedly half heartedly withdrawn.

Say you sue them for the two statements in the tweet and win, aren't you just getting damages since? Meaning long after Kiwifarms and Epik stoped having a relationship and when the real damage came about from the severing their services the way they did and piling on.

I imagine Epik will offer to settle immediately admitting wrongdoing but only for that one tweet. It will be very hard to prove that the current situation is in any way related to the current tweet, including the issues with finding hosts and the DDOS:ing.
Or is there something else, is that tweet somehow proof that they lied about everything?
I

Just read this post and you will know what they said is defamatory.

 

[BallsOfaKiwi]

Just read this post and you will know what they said is defamatory.

You didn't read my post right.

I know it's defamatory.
But what are the damages?
Or even if going for a symbolic victory, symbolic of what?
The more I think about it the less I see how this can have any effect on what Epik did in terms of depriving Kiwifarms of internet access or being part of a campaign to silence us. They will probably agree its defamatory, withdraw the statements immediately , issue an apology and pay a token sum or the limited damages, if any, that have occurred specifically as a result of those two tweets.

The problem is that those two tweets come long, long after the campaign had started against Kiwifarms, thus they are irrelevant to everything that has happened.

The only hope would be a discovery process somehow tied to them and if Epik or someone else lied to them about court orders.

 

[Dyn]

It will be very hard to prove that the current situation is in any way related to the current tweet, including the issues with finding hosts and the DDOS:ing.

Accusing somebody of hosting CSAM is defamation per se. You don't have to show damages in a defamation per se suit.

 

[Man In A Dress]

But what are the damages?
Or even if going for a symbolic victory, symbolic of what?

It damages the sites reputation and can affect the ability of Lolcow LLC to do business in the future. Then you have political figures and activists like Alejandra Carabello supporting these claims and reiterating them, which can affect peoples perception of the site even further. "If a politician supports it then there must be truth to it."

As for symbolism, it would demonstrate that Null has the capability to sue and remind other businesses not to fuck around like Epik has done.
I am not a law fag so I could be very wrong about this but if Null doesn't sue then it can be interpreted that he, and the site by extension, accept these claims as truth.

 

[BallsOfaKiwi]

Accusing somebody of hosting CSAM is defamation per se. You don't have to show damages in a defamation per se suit.

You're also not getting it.
I'm sure he wins, I'm sure he gets peanuts. Far less than this is gonna cost in lawyer costs.
The question is what the point is.

He's suing for two tweets that some dumb retard they hired posted on Twitter. If he can't prove a connection to everything that has happened or get something in discovery then this wont be doing anything.

It won't be advancing the cause of the internet.
It won't be advancing the cause of Kiwifarms.
It's not gonna bleed Epik dry, especially if he does it the way you suggest - as we've been through earlier in the thread.


If Epik plays this right they just admit that their retarded representative fucked up, withdraw the statement and pay a token sum.
It ends up just being suing someone for talking crap online. Which granted they deserve, but if you don't tie any significant events to it then it's just a slap on the wrist.

A waste of time.

It damages the sites reputation and can affect the ability of Lolcow LLC to do business in the future. Then you have political figures and activists like Alejandra Carabello supporting these claims and reiterating them, which can affect peoples perception of the site even further. "If a politician supports it then there must be truth to it."

That's what I thought at a glance too, but the more I think about it the more I say Press X to doubt.
There's no judge in the world that's going to agree to that. All damage had already been done, I've forgotten what the term is in legal lingo but basically if your reputation is already in the dirt then you can't claim that something in the present will cause those things to happen in the future. They are already happening.

You'd have to tie the misconception that Kiwifarms did things illegally to the past and that Epik was either lured or a willing participant in a conspiracy to defame and destroy Kiwifarms based on allegations such as that it had not complied with court orders.

And I just don't see that happening.

 

[Spaded Dave]

If Epik plays this right they just admit that their retarded representative fucked up, withdraw the statement and pay a token sum.

You just answered your own question, retard.

 

[BallsOfaKiwi]

You just answered your own question, retard.

You think that admitting that some retard they hired fucked up is worth 75000?
You pay it then, it aint to me.

This site ls literally made to make fun of people who sue for that.
What would be worth it is forcing EPIK to admit that they suspended services on false grounds or something like that. But I dont see a path to that at the moment.

 

[Dyn]

if you don't tie any significant events

A company that has presumed knowledge of the inner workings of the website falsely claiming there is child porn hosted on it without getting a slap on the wrist is a pretty significant event, and it would be nice if a judge said "Hey, don't do that".

I don't know what else you want? A supreme court judgement ordering Cloudflare to host us and officially declaring that Keffals will never be a woman? A lawsuit over some retard talking crap online is all it's supposed to be, and while I wouldn't pay $75k for this, a lot of people are apparently eager to fund it.

 

[Spaded Dave]

it aint to me.

Then don't. You're not going to win an award announcing how much you totally don't care about this lawsuit and think it's dumb.

 

[Man In A Dress]

If he can't prove a connection to everything that has happened or get something in discovery then this wont be doing anything.

Are you trying to connect this to shit that has happened before these tweets have been published?
This is very straightforward. Epik has made two false claims that affects the reputation of the site. Claiming the site hosts CP, or any illegal content for that matter, is defamatory in nature. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

That's what I thought at a glance too, but the more I think about it the more I say Press X to doubt.
There's no judge in the world that's going to agree to that. All damage had already been done, I've forgotten what the term is in legal lingo but basically if your reputation is already in the dirt then you can't claim that something in the present will cause those things to happen in the future. They are already happening.

You'd have to tie the misconception that Kiwifarms did things illegally to the past and that Epik was either lured or a willing participant in a conspiracy to defame and destroy Kiwifarms based on allegations such as that it had not complied with court orders.

And I just don't see that happening.

Alright, you're fucking retarded. I'm not even going to attempt to explain why you're so retarded but I would recommend you shut up.

 

[GenociderSyo]

I think the heart of the matter is not to get Epik to admit someone did something, but to prove that he was giving false info. The entire crux of why we are having issues at moment is because people spread that false info as proof to providers. If the false info is proven false even in just a settlement null then has an official document to shove in providers faces.

 

[WTBOnlineFather]

You think that admitting that some retard they hired fucked up is worth 75000?
You pay it then, it aint to me.

This site ls literally made to make fun of people who sue for that.
What would be worth it is forcing EPIK to admit that they suspended services on false grounds or something like that. But I dont see a path to that at the moment.

You're a retard gorilla nigger newfag. This isn't some random butthurt twitter nobody throwing random accusations at KF and Null. This is a well known company that KF has done business with in the past accusing KF of heinous crimes (actual felonies) and tying it directly to their past conduct (dropping KF). As a little bonus adding yet more reason to sue they made a number of retarded fuckups in the process, further digging their own hole.

It doesn't matter who's operating the twitter account. Trannies are already running with this narrative because Epik has had a business relationship with the site which makes anything they say sound legitimate. If Null can nail them in court for being dumb liars, it sets a precedent that is worth just as much as Epik's reputation, i.e. it's vastly more substantial than any schizophrenic rando lolcow with a chip on their shoulder.

No one cares how much you don't wanna contribute. You're free to continue being a retard at zero cost but don't embarrass yourself please. Enjoy freedom.

 

[BallsOfaKiwi]

I think the heart of the matter is not to get Epik to admit someone did something, but to prove that he was giving false info. The entire crux of why we are having issues at moment is because people spread that false info as proof to providers. If the false info is proven false even in just a settlement null then has an official document to shove in providers faces.

This is a very good point. Proving in court that there is no CP or other illegal content would be worth it, cause then it shuts up others who claim so.


This is nice.

You're a retard gorilla nigger newfag. This isn't some random butthurt twitter nobody throwing random accusations at KF and Null. This is a well known company that KF has done business with in the past accusing KF of heinous crimes (actual felonies) and tying it directly to their past conduct (dropping KF). As a little bonus adding yet more reason to sue they made a number of retarded fuckups in the process, further digging their own hole.

It doesn't matter who's operating the twitter account. Trannies are already running with this narrative because Epik has had a business relationship with the site which makes anything they say sound legitimate. If Null can nail them in court for being dumb liars, it sets a precedent that is worth just as much as Epik's reputation, i.e. it's vastly more substantial than any schizophrenic rando lolcow with a chip on their shoulder.

No one cares how much you don't wanna contribute. You're free to continue being a retard at zero cost but don't embarrass yourself please. Enjoy freedom.

Fucking with their reputation is a legitimate win, I'll give you that. Not that they seem to be needing any help there.


Alright you two won me over.

 

[Man In A Dress]

This is a very good point. Proving in court that there is no CP or RP would be worth it, cause then it shuts up others who claim so.


This is nice.

You would have reached this conclusion if you read the post like I said but since you insist on being special:

These are both false, and these are both instances of actionable per se defamation. The damage of these claims is inherent in the claim and they are already being parroted by adversaries for the purposes of trying to further erode our ability to find stability and sure footing on the Internet.

this would be an amazing step for being able to show providers: Yes, we are legal, and yes, we are taking steps to remedy actionable defamation to the contrary.

 

[Null]

The question is what the point is.

I am going to get a verdict that the claim was false so that when this is submitted to other providers I can prove the claim was false.

I have repeated myself on this literally a dozen times now: When people lie like this, LFJ takes that lie and puts it into an email. Here's Matthew Prince saying X. Here's Epik saying Y. Do you really want X and Y on your service!?!? Of course not! and they're very reputable!

This is in the featured post you're responding to, you just don't read.

 

[BallsOfaKiwi]

I am going to get a verdict that the claim was false so that when this is submitted to other providers I can prove the claim was false.


I have repeated myself on this literally a dozen times now: When people lie like this, LFJ takes that lie and puts it into an email. Here's Matthew Prince saying X. Here's Epik saying Y. Do you really want X and Y on your service!?!? Of course not! and they're very reputable!

This is in the featured post you're responding to, you just don't read.

You're right. it's just that all the discussion has been centered on damages and fucking with Epik themselves that the peripheral consequences that are the really important ones hadn't been discussed much in the thread.

You would have reached this conclusion if you read the post like I said but since you insist on being special:

Yeah my bad, I thought You were saying that you can prove that the tweets resulted directly in LLC taking hits as per your post. You were in fact replying to my notion that they couldn't. I.E. whether there was any money to be made from the defamation suit.

I thought you replied directly to my concerns instead of adding other legitimate reasons for the suit, so I read it wrong.

 

[Spaded Dave]

so I read it

X to doubt.

 

[BallsOfaKiwi]

X to doubt.

A man can be wrong dude, it happens, it's alright. I'm sorry, jeez.

 

[ChromaQuack]

A man can be wrong dude, it happens, it's alright. I'm sorry, jeez.

You can be wrong, you can also read what people send you and not be a fucking retard that doubles down on it.

Please come back when you're 18, you clearly haven't finished grade school.