RTS (Real-time Strategy) General - Gookclick anon can't find us here.

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anonski said:
-Starcraft is so dead in the water that the entire franchise is gonna get outsourced to a Korean game dev (yet undetermined who)
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Brood War pro scene is doing fine with ASL and stuff like CNSL and BSL

ASL 19 going on rn Jaedong looking like an absolute unit and hopefully Flash will be in ASL 20
 
draggs said:
Brood War pro scene is doing fine with ASL and stuff like CNSL and BSL

ASL 19 going on rn Jaedong looking like an absolute unit and hopefully Flash will be in ASL 20
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I like competition, but at the same time I also kind of hate the directions games took where they put being an """esport""" first in front of being a game.
 
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DickMain said:
I like competition, but at the same time I also kind of hate the directions games took where they put being an """esport""" first in front of being a game.
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I don't like how you have to rely on rigid build orders to be competitive. There's not enough leeway for it to be fun imo.
 
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titty nigga said:
I don't like how you have to rely on rigid build orders to be competitive. There's not enough leeway for it to be fun imo.
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I'm not so sure, personally. The pros don't always know exactly what's the best, which is why you see those builds and strategies change over the course of the game's life as they figure things out. Even more when the game is being actively updated. There's experimentation and innovation that happens, but of course that tends to slow down as the updates stop, though not necessarily entirely.
 
Ivr been excessively pondering the kind of stuff you guys are talking about here, titty and dick.

Ive come to the conclusion that this perception mostly comes from StarCraft popularity, but mechanically, isn't actually as prominent outside of StarCraft as you'd think.

Starcraft has 2 reasons that it often comes down to timings, instead of strategy execution.
1. The game inherently has attackers advantage. There's nothing inherently defensible about your home base
2. Maps are the same each time
These two combined to mean that you can have 6 zerglings in the enemy base at an exact time. And your enemy can count on that zergling timing and plan around it. Meaning that if you're learning, 6 zerglings probably got into your base and you couldn't do anything about it and ate shit, and your only recourse, ultimately, is to get better at that opener.

This dynamic instantly changes in Age of Empires 2 which has
1. Defenders advantage. Town centers are a guaranteed defensive building at the start of the game, and dark age offensive units have limited effectiveness against villagers.
2. Maps are randomly seeded and must be discovered over the course of the game.
This results in games that are a lot more freeform and probably a lot more what you guys are looking for. Build orders still exist, but it's more like a guideline on how to efficiently roll out your early game eco, the script ends FAST (usually early castle age at the latest) and you will even get eco harassment from the other player before the build order is complete and still need to adapt. I have often won against faster players by baiting them into losing their early offensive push being greedy. Then they've spent a large chunk of eco on offense that I have not, and suddenly you have the advantage despite build ordering worse than the other guy. highly recommend looking into AOE2, you see a lot of creativity and off meta in the ladder and major tournaments with top level players. Easily my favorite esport
 
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Just found this thread. Command and Conquer 1 was one of the first video games I ever played. I almost beat the GDI campaign, couldn't reall play the NOD campaign as a child because my troops automatically gunning down civvies made me feel bad. I remember playing th NOD missions as challenge missions to try avoiding blasting random civilian's brains out.

Kind of sad how RTS's have gone down, but there's still alright RTS games coming out every so often. I also hate that Blizzard killed co-op for Starcraft 2. Man that shit was so fun. I'd play it with a friend forever if they still added new maps ... and well Blizzard wasn't blizzard.
 
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titty nigga said:
I don't like how you have to rely on rigid build orders to be competitive. There's not enough leeway for it to be fun imo.
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Most Brood War build orders at the high levels of play are rigid themselves but some have flexibility, multiple variations, and there's lots of build orders for each race and matchup. Except Zerg vs. Zerg lol
 
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DefinitelyNotMe said:
Tempest Rising is out of EA
haven't had a chance to check it out but all of the reviews seem to be positive
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13.5 For the purpose of detection system improvement and elimination of malfunctions and errors in the Game, as well as detecting the use of third-party software resources that affect the game process, the User permits and COMPANY has right to automatically collect, store, process, submit to third party for achieving such purpose areas of User Device RAM used by the User simultaneously with the launch and/or operation of the Game as well as the following data: (a) software information installed in personal computer of the User including operating system, drivers, dxdiag; (b) full- size screenshots showing the Game Client running, (c) the User’s device information, its basic characteristics and parameters and (d) dll list connected to the process of the Game functioning on User’s device, its versions and checksums. The collected information of the User indicated in subclauses (a)-(d) hereof shall be completely anonymized.
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No, I don't think I will.
 
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BradeRunna said:
Currently waiting for the release of Broken Arrow.


release date is June 2025.
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this has the appearence of one of the wargame series games or combat mission

hope the reliable lads at Slitherine do a good spin on it

In the meanwhile I'm going to give the 'not command and conquer' command and conquer a go

Anyone here tried Act of Aggression? I found the campaign really enjoyable and playing as Cartel feels great.
 
aoe2 has lost the magic for me 2bh. still fun to play with friends but lately I just replay campaigns and chill. multiplayer is a cesspool and the chink stuff has just made it that much worse.
 
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I really need to broaden my RTS autism, the only one I play on the regular is Thrawn's Revenge for Empire at War and I get totally lost in that game for hours whenever I start a new campaign. Are either of the 40k Battlefleet Gothic games any good? I have been on a 40k kick recently and they look fun.
 
Giant Troonade said:
I really need to broaden my RTS autism, the only one I play on the regular is Thrawn's Revenge for Empire at War and I get totally lost in that game for hours whenever I start a new campaign. Are either of the 40k Battlefleet Gothic games any good? I have been on a 40k kick recently and they look fun.
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I wouldn't call Battlefleet Gothic RTS. More RTT, since there's no basebuilding and what you take into a map is what you get.

Otherwise, I definitely recommend the first one at least. Stellar campaign, (if repetitive towards the end), and pretty fun selection of races.
 
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anonski said:
Starcraft has 2 reasons that it often comes down to timings, instead of strategy execution.
1. The game inherently has attackers advantage. There's nothing inherently defensible about your home base
2. Maps are the same each time
These two combined to mean that you can have 6 zerglings in the enemy base at an exact time. And your enemy can count on that zergling timing and plan around it. Meaning that if you're learning, 6 zerglings probably got into your base and you couldn't do anything about it and ate shit, and your only recourse, ultimately, is to get better at that opener.
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Been watching Grubby's onlyfangs wc3 stuff. It underlined why I both like and dislike Starcraft. Personally I love the concept of heroes being the turning point of your strategy, but I also hate the concept of creeping. Knowing what to creep, when to creep, dragging night elf buildings along, exploding wisps in combat, all these niche concepts that'll turn the tide cause you disabled their priests or whatever. Ending up with a tanked-out lv 7 hero basically being the focal point of a fight.

Starcraft? It's a fighting game. Rock beats scissor. Poor scouting, you lose. Poor micro, you lose. Taking an expansion is both required and easily done compared to WC3. Grubby made this fun anecdote about one of the players: "I want to expand but I never know when to do it, so I end up never doing it. Which is very similar to me asking out girls in high school; I don't know how, I don't know when, I know it's good and will lead to good things, but I'm scared". I played zerg so you always needed to be one expansion up on the enemy, making it even worse.

Starcraft 2 had THE best custom game engine in gaming, period. And you could monetize it. Yet, this was so far into SC2's life that nobody really cared about it. It could easily have been the birthing grounds of auto chess instead of DotA. The co-op mode is fucking great. If you suffer from ladder anxiety, you can practice, with friends, against AI, while also earning battlepass xp and leveling up your commanders or whatever they're called. Imagine that in Warcraft 3: Play a nelf sub-race with Illidan and nagas. Unlocking custom hero skins for pvp, making your death knight into a hot babe. It's literally in the fucking files.
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Rts and fighting games suffer from the same issues, but rts have more modern methods of smoothing into it. Campaign, co-op, custom games. Fighting games you lab for 2 hours and go online and get your teeth kicked in. If you just spam matches you might learn a bit and win some, but you don't know why or how. In RTS you at least learn "oh, archers are good against these units, so if I see these units I'll-". I recognize AoE being peak RTS but I just don't fuck with historical warfare. I want fantasy and Stormgate seems to be eating ass massively. It's like fighting games: You find an indie title interesting only for it to fall short and you go back to "Tekken or street fighter?". Rts will hit the grave still asking "Warcraft or AoE?"
 
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