RWBY - The Hindenburg on which Rooster Teeth rests its hopes, dreams and future

[Decepticon Spy]

The funny thing is, he doesn't like the show anymore. He and his friends got burned by the Clover thing and it's made UoW more anti-RWBY especially as he doesn't like Volume 8. Nowadays the RWBY subreddit basically allows you to call him any slur under the sun and the mods won't punish you.

Of course he dipped after he can no longer ship Qrow X Clover...

 

[Chilson]

the one thing I’ve heard about Couer is that he always puts Jaune at the forefront, which people say is an actual problem the main show has.

The problem isn't that Jaune is the front man, the problem is that the show is called RWBY and the main character who the show is named after loses most of their screen time to Jaune.

Its the dishonesty of casting Ruby as the lead when Jaune has more characteristics and arcs suited for a main character.

 

[Rhymes 19]

No one impressed me with their art, regardless of the medium.

Hey....

The RWBY community, on either side, has pretty much run off anybody with talent. People like Rhymes get fucking shotgunned out at the slightest show of self-awareness. For the best, because if you're investing this much time and energy into creating something it should be for your own original work. RWBY doesn't deserve the effort.

Twice, even. I got kicked off Remnants too effectively for having opinions and being a bit too negative. SYTO never seemed happy that I thought his lyrics needed to be severely overhauled, and the head writer got offended that I challenged his assertion that his rather generic fantasy epic with 200k words of lore behind is definitely a great first choice for a new author to get published. He also refused to give samples of his prose to prove himself.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

The one thing I’ve heard about Couer is that he always puts Jaune at the forefront, which people say is an actual problem the main show has.

The thing is, he constantly writes Jaune because Jaune, sticking strictly with canon, is the easiest to write without completely remaking the character, because, as Chilson said, he has an actual multifaceted character and multiple character arcs. Couer's works, for the most part, try to hem closely to canon, only changing what would be necessary to make that fic's particular caveat to work. For example, in the work that made him famous, Not This Time, Fate, the story of the world of RWBY pretty much follows canon without any changes. The only change is that Jaune is a time traveler who keeps jumping back in time every time he dies at the Battle of Beacon, and is constantly trying to avert the death of both him and his friends, only to constantly fail because of his inability to know all the angles, because, even though he's been repeating the same few months for millennia, he still doesn't know all the things we the audience know from having watched RWBY, like the fact that Salem exists, because there are still some things he just can't find out. Most of his stories focus the changes on Jaune specifically as a character, because there is a lot you can do with him.

It should be noted though that he doesn't always focus on Jaune in his fics. On that note:

a relative lack of willingness to make changes to experiment with making RWBY the protagonists of his fics (which implies he runs away from this issue rather than confront it)

He has actually made Ruby the main character or a major character in his fics. Specifically, his Alternate Universe fics, which don't use the canon of the series at all, tend to feature Ruby as a prominent character because Couer can actually give her more depth, nuance, and internal conflict than in the canon portrayals, where she's basically just a bundle of hope and sunshine in the first volumes, and downright insufferable in the later ones. Specifically, she's a Tritagonist in The Unseen Hunt, one of the main love interests in Forged Destiny, and the main protagonist of Arcanum.

 

[Mega Black]

The problem isn't that Jaune is the front man, the problem is that the show is called RWBY and the main character who the show is named after loses most of their screen time to Jaune.

Its the dishonesty of casting Ruby as the lead when Jaune has more characteristics and arcs suited for a main character.

Any sensible editor or director would have looked at Jaune's focus in the early volumes and gone 'hey, wait a minute, this guy is just the protagonist and Ruby isn't doing anything of value.' My personal solution would have just been to axe Jaune entirely and roll his character traits into Ruby, thus trimming the fat of the cast and giving her more to do in the story. That would have required removing a certain writer's pet character though, so...

Hey....

Twice, even. I got kicked off Remnants too effectively for having opinions and being a bit too negative. SYTO never seemed happy that I thought his lyrics needed to be severely overhauled, and the head writer got offended that I challenged his assertion that his rather generic fantasy epic with 200k words of lore behind is definitely a great first choice for a new author to get published. He also refused to give samples of his prose to prove himself.

Take my word for it, you're better off. Like most internet circlejerk communities, time poured in is time wasted. Stick to working with folks who can value what you do, petty fandom drama is beneath you (except when it comes to pointing and laughing at them.)

Better to be a zookeeper than one of the monkeys. You already said you're in more professional writing and critique communities earlier in the thread, right? Sounds like you've found people who can value what you have to say, at least.

Couer's works, for the most part, try to hem closely to canon,

Talk about a fool's errand. I'll have to read these fics, I guess, I'm not convinced by pretty much anything you guys have said that they're any good.

 

[Rhymes 19]

Take my word for it, you're better off. Like most internet circlejerk communities, time poured in is time wasted. Stick to working with folks who can value what you do, petty fandom drama is beneath you (except when it comes to pointing and laughing at them.)

Better to be a zookeeper than one of the monkeys. You already said you're in more professional writing and critique communities earlier in the thread, right? Sounds like you've found people who can value what you have to say, at least.

That was someone else, actually. I'm still trying to find a niche for myself. I prefer writing songs about stories, so it's a bit more specific than just general songwriting/composing. I grew up around a lot of Broadway, guess it stuck. Recently I wrote a song for a different series, and while it didn't get any attention, it felt nice just having my friends enjoy it. It was something my own instead of at the whims of an egotist or three. I worked hard to teach myself to sing, it was so much more fulfilling than waiting for a mediocre internet singer to find the time.

You're right though, it's probably all for the best. Remnants will be a trite mess of lore at best, and other rewrites rarely get off the ground. Though I do wish I kept my mouth shut with them, it would've at least been fun to see what happened with it.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

I'll have to read these fics,

Please do. You won't be disappointed. Not this Time, Fate, is the one that made him famous, and is a good one to start on to get a feel for both his storytelling, and pick up on a lot the tropes he usually uses, as well as story elements he uses across all his works. For instance, Coeur rarely uses OCs in his stories, and when he does, they usually barely get any focus and may even not get a name. However, there are certain OCs which he consistently uses across all of his stories. For example, he named Jaune's family members, gave them personalities, and backstories, and these remain consistent across all his non-AU stories (until one of Jaune's sisters was actually given a canon name and personality; in stories written after that point, she is simply slotted in instead). Also, canon characters that didn't get background stories in RWBY at the time are given one by him, and those backstories also remain consistent across different stories. Fate is good for getting used to his writing style and how he's able to make RWBY work.

As for AU's, I recommend The Unseen Hunt and I haven't started reading Arcanum yet, but it sounds good though. I would stay away from Forged Destiny, though. That's probably his most controversial, at least as far as quality goes.

 

[Decepticon Spy]

That was someone else, actually. I'm still trying to find a niche for myself. I prefer writing songs about stories, so it's a bit more specific than just general songwriting/composing. I grew up around a lot of Broadway, guess it stuck. Recently I wrote a song for a different series, and while it didn't get any attention, it felt nice just having my friends enjoy it. It was something my own instead of at the whims of an egotist or three. I worked hard to teach myself to sing, it was so much more fulfilling than waiting for a mediocre internet singer to find the time.

Having people realize what utter trainwrecks YouTube RWBY rewrites are and finally grow out of it and find better outlets for their creativity always put a smile on my face.

You're right though, it's probably all for the best. Remnants will be a trite mess of lore at best, and other rewrites rarely get off the ground. Though I do wish I kept my mouth shut with them, it would've at least been fun to see what happened with it.

Sooner or Later there'll be another guy from that server that'll be sick of Raymond's shit as you, and maybe who knows they'll post it here rather than unleashing the Reddit/Twitter swarm on him. What you shared in this site alone revealed how much of a lolcow he is.

 

[A Very Big Fish]

That was someone else, actually. I'm still trying to find a niche for myself. I prefer writing songs about stories, so it's a bit more specific than just general songwriting/composing. I grew up around a lot of Broadway, guess it stuck. Recently I wrote a song for a different series, and while it didn't get any attention, it felt nice just having my friends enjoy it. It was something my own instead of at the whims of an egotist or three. I worked hard to teach myself to sing, it was so much more fulfilling than waiting for a mediocre internet singer to find the time.

You're right though, it's probably all for the best. Remnants will be a trite mess of lore at best, and other rewrites rarely get off the ground. Though I do wish I kept my mouth shut with them, it would've at least been fun to see what happened with it.

Sounds cool that you're getting to look for this new niche.

One of my friends wrote a bunch of music for a Skyrim mod (I think it went by the wayside, because I never saw it release) and he wound up quitting because he had to deal with weird demands and he said they kept making the mod bigger and bigger, until he had something like 50 songs to write and they had lost all the other composers because of the workload and no pay. The way he described it sounded miserable by the end.

 

[Rhymes 19]

Sounds cool that you're getting to look for this new niche.

One of my friends wrote a bunch of music for a Skyrim mod (I think it went by the wayside, because I never saw it release) and he wound up quitting because he had to deal with weird demands and he said they kept making the mod bigger and bigger, until he had something like 50 songs to write and they had lost all the other composers because of the workload and no pay. The way he described it sounded miserable by the end.

A lot of people don't really seem to understand how long making music can take. They think we're all Toby Foxs who can shit out 100 songs but don't realize he copy-pasted like 80% of his tracks. If you want something that sounds better than 16-bit, you're already dealing with composers who have spent hundreds, if not thousands, on advanced software, and it can take a dozen hours to finish a song. One of the songs I did for FRWBY, the one for Raven and Yang's discussion, was over 6 minutes long. It took several days, and that was after I got Raymond to stop micromanaging me. For Adam's theme, Raymond probably added another 10 hours of work for me due to his nitpicking. And this was all while I was studying for a 14-subject, 8-hour licensing exam. All for no pay, even though I spent over $100 on a special VST. Needless to say, I won't be making that mistake again.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

So let's ask ourselves two questions. Firstly, who else besides this Couer guy is a top of the line professional quality creator in the RWBY fandom? Secondly, is this one, or are these handful, of creator(s) good enough to truly justify the RWBY fandom as a whole as being "full of talented individuals"? Or do you think that this is more a case of a fluke?

 

[Decepticon Spy]

So let's ask ourselves two questions. Firstly, who else besides this Couer guy is a top of the line professional quality creator in the RWBY fandom? Secondly, is this one, or are these handful, of creator(s) good enough to truly justify the RWBY fandom as a whole as being "full of talented individuals"? Or do you think that this is more a case of a fluke?

Well the talent thing was probably true back when RWBY was fresh and spiffy. Nowadays it's pretty much clear that the people who grew to hate RWBY happened to be the ones with talent, well at least the ones that are not actively trying to rewrite RWBY proper anyways, and at the top of my head here are a few I can name, do note that non of them are of professional quality:
Mark Zhang the guy who made a fan animation called SLVR.
VexxedViewer who actually knows what he's talking about and doesn't seem to be actively malicious towards the crew beyond calling out Barbara's "It's just a carTOOOON." bit.
With everything said and done in this thread, Floof can actually draw some pretty neat architecture but just like Hitler, his ability falls flat once you make him draw people.

 

[Mega Black]

That was someone else, actually. I'm still trying to find a niche for myself. I prefer writing songs about stories, so it's a bit more specific than just general songwriting/composing. I grew up around a lot of Broadway, guess it stuck. Recently I wrote a song for a different series, and while it didn't get any attention, it felt nice just having my friends enjoy it. It was something my own instead of at the whims of an egotist or three. I worked hard to teach myself to sing, it was so much more fulfilling than waiting for a mediocre internet singer to find the time.

You're right though, it's probably all for the best. Remnants will be a trite mess of lore at best, and other rewrites rarely get off the ground. Though I do wish I kept my mouth shut with them, it would've at least been fun to see what happened with it.

Ah, my bad, I guess I should have double checked. It's an interesting talent you have, regardless. It's a shame to lose a woman on the inside, but these things always blow up eventually. If we don't get some other double agent, we'll hear it through the grapevine.

One of my friends wrote a bunch of music for a Skyrim mod (I think it went by the wayside, because I never saw it release) and he wound up quitting because he had to deal with weird demands and he said they kept making the mod bigger and bigger, until he had something like 50 songs to write and they had lost all the other composers because of the workload and no pay. The way he described it sounded miserable by the end.

This is a story I've heard a few times. Modder's Madness I think it's called, modders who let the scope bloat creep in and way overshoot what they're able to make. People tend to misunderstand or not have a good grasp of artistic mediums they don't actively participate in, everything seems 'easy' to somebody who hasn't taken the time to actually practice and hone that particular skill. This is compounded with internet projects, where you don't even have face to face communication. Communication is key, which is hard when you have autistic idiots with iron fist syndrome and delusions of grandeur. This seems like Raymond's deal, an extreme incapability to deal with actual humans, probably because he's surrounded by a little internet bubble of people who coo at everything he says and does. I'd kill to get Raymond in an actual writing group, seeing him get eviscerated would be a treat.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

Modder's Madness I think it's called

The IRL term in engineering circles is Feature Creep, also commonly called Kitchen Sink Syndrome.

 

[The Periodic Gamer]

Hey....

I didn't judge you because I don't know anything about music or the theory behind it. Everyone else though... I can tell when people don't look right. And writing is my thing.

So let's ask ourselves two questions. Firstly, who else besides this Couer guy is a top of the line professional quality creator in the RWBY fandom? Secondly, is this one, or are these handful, of creator(s) good enough to truly justify the RWBY fandom as a whole as being "full of talented individuals"? Or do you think that this is more a case of a fluke?

Depends on your definition of 'talented'. If, by 'talented', you mean 'major turbo sperg', then yes. I'd say that a good 90% of writers are major spergs. If you don't mean major turbo sperg, then no. But thats true of every fandom. Sturgeons law is a big thing.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

Depends on your definition of 'talented'. If, by 'talented', you mean 'major turbo sperg', then yes. I'd say that a good 90% of writers are major spergs. If you don't mean major turbo sperg, then no. But thats true of every fandom. Sturgeons law is a big thing.

I don't mean major turbo sperg, I mean a creator that like Couer you feel is worthy of praise above and beyond the mere level of "fan project" and is actually movingly good in their field.

 

[Random Internet Person]

I don't mean major turbo sperg, I mean a creator that like Couer you feel is worthy of praise above and beyond the mere level of "fan project" and is actually movingly good in their field.

Have people called for Coeur to be on the writing staff?

 

[The Periodic Gamer]

I don't mean major turbo sperg, I mean a creator that like Couer you feel is worthy of praise above and beyond the mere level of "fan project" and is actually movingly good in their field.

Not really. But mind you, thats not uncommon. Those kind of authors are vanishingly rare. You might go into a major fandom and not find even one of their like. Authors like Coeur are so rare that I know every one of them I came across by name.

Have people called for Coeur to be on the writing staff?

No. I wish they would though. Coeur's politely worded refusal would be hilarious.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

Not really. But mind you, thats not uncommon. Those kind of authors are vanishingly rare. You might go into a major fandom and not find even one of their like. Authors like Coeur are so rare that I know every one of them I came across by name.

Which was the point I was trying to make, and you hit the nail on the head by invoking Sturgeon's Law. When I stated that there were no good creators left I didn't literally mean zero good creators, I meant that the number of creators who did acceptable work was so low as to appear as a zero sum, sure they still exist but they're so rare that finding them is almost not worth it.

I wasn't lying when I said earlier that my exposure to RWBY is limited to almost exclusively this thread and the show itself, and I realize that's a very limited scope, but ultimately nothing I've seen for RWBY or Rooster Teeth as a whole paints a very pretty picture.

 

[Mega Black]

Which was the point I was trying to make, and you hit the nail on the head by invoking Sturgeon's Law. When I stated that there were no good creators left I didn't literally mean zero good creators, I meant that the number of creators who did acceptable work was so low as to appear as a zero sum, sure they still exist but they're so rare that finding them is almost not worth it.

I wasn't lying when I said earlier that my exposure to RWBY is limited to almost exclusively this thread and the show itself, and I realize that's a very limited scope, but ultimately nothing I've seen for RWBY or Rooster Teeth as a whole paints a very pretty picture.

This is pretty much what I meant as well, but Sleaze put it better than I could. There was once a time where the fanbase had a plethora of above-average talent, but that has largely run its course. Are there outliers? Sure, a few maybe, but they're the exception more than the rule and I can't escape the sense that these people are mostly wasting their time playing with somebody else's turd when they should be making their own.

Part of that is because of the Fandom, part of it is because the show has been around for so goddamn long, more still I'm going to argue that the Fandom engagement has lessened in quality because the show is just so fucking boring now. Not even entertaining bad. At this rate I'm fully expecting the show to get cancelled last minute due to apathy.