RWBY - The Hindenburg on which Rooster Teeth rests its hopes, dreams and future

[Mega Black]

RWBY Fairy Tales is just CRWBY rummaging their scrap notes and office bins and turn whatever they find into an anthology series. Every episode feels like a draft of a plot-point that would've made it in the show if Monty is still alive but were discarded by the Galaxy-Brain duo because they did not meet their political agenda quotas.

It's an adaptation of some supplementary material they released, a tie-in book written by Ozpin that covers fairy tales written in the world of Remnant, so that's pretty accurate.

It probably has to do with him seeing Remnants as some kind of holy mission sent from Monty himself. I hope he took any of my advice. I really tried to explain why lyrics worked or didn't work, to give him the toolbox to improve on his own. Writing song lyrics is about much more than rhyming some fancy words. He said he didn't care for rhymes as long as he got to put in the imagery, like he's Lorde or something. The difference is, Lorde's mother was a poet, and because of this, she has an exceptional understanding of metre, flow, and storytelling. The notes I put on his lyrics tried to explain this, as you can see from the sample I provided. Especially because SYTO is Malaysian, and English isn't his first language.

Like I said earlier in the thread, it's paramount a writer understand the weight, tone, and implication of words, particularly in poetry. "Heaven Created" had the line "So mirror, mirror, I beseech thee/Mirror, mirror, the pieces back whole." I tried to explain to him that "beseech" is antiquated, even in this context, which he countered with how it's supposed to sound formal. The full phrase "I beseech thee the pieces back whole" makes no sense. "The pieces back whole" is also off-metre. We don't put emphasis on the last syllable of "pieces."

Spoiler: More songwriting sperging

View attachment 2928752
It really can be the little things. I rewrote my own rewrite because, as you can see in the red text, I decided the final chorus needed more finality. "Listen to the wind" and "Hear the howling wind" are technically synonymous, but it's the weight of the words. "Listen" is softer, asking someone to tune in their ears. "Hear" is more of a command, like they can't avoid it. Also, his original "I beg of you, please" falls off metre. For all his talk of imagery, it's very lacking here. Just a lot of "mirror, mirror" because RWBY did that. I have no idea why he'd want to emulate Jeff Williams of all people.

Right, because who would Monty trust with his vision? A nobody autist on the internet or a company and group of people he knew personally in real life and probably considered friends? I think these people get attached to Monty/his vision because he was one of the rare few who were lucky/talented enough to go out there and get his own shit made. They want to be Monty, but all they can really do is hang off of his work like a parasite. I can't imagine the sheer arrogance one would need to be afflicted with to be indignant about a glorified fanfiction.

I also find it strange how bent out of shape they seem to get when someone edits their work. A key part of storytelling/writing is drafting and editing. There's no shame in having your first draft of something be wrong or in need of fixing, everything you see out in the world that's traditionally published has gone through feedback and drafts and editing from people. It's not like you're being rude, at least that I can understand, your examples appear pretty straightforward and to the point. It seems like they just want to put down one draft of something, consider it perfect, and move on. Sheer laziness, or ego, probably both.

I've heard Jeff Williams is a terrible lyricist, but I have pretty much no understanding of songwriting, I just know a lot of the RWBY songs sound terrible. Can you go more into that? I feel like I'm learning a lot.

 

[Decepticon Spy]

Right, because who would Monty trust with his vision? A nobody autist on the internet or a company and group of people he knew personally in real life and probably considered friends? I think these people get attached to Monty/his vision because he was one of the rare few who were lucky/talented enough to go out there and get his own shit made. They want to be Monty, but all they can really do is hang off of his work like a parasite. I can't imagine the sheer arrogance one would need to be afflicted with to be indignant about a glorified fanfiction.

Idolization is one hell of a drug, specially for autists. Shane branding the fandom as "The True Bearer's of Monty's Legacy" just inflated their heads tenfold. They also have what I like to call as 'Syndrome Complex' where fanboys had gained a sense of entitlement and an obsessive attachment to their hero through prolonged Idol worship. The fact that RT had painted itself a target for massive scapegoating for handling his case ever so-poorly doesn't help dissuade their delusion of grandeur either.

I also find it strange how bent out of shape they seem to get when someone edits their work. A key part of storytelling/writing is drafting and editing. There's no shame in having your first draft of something be wrong or in need of fixing, everything you see out in the world that's traditionally published has gone through feedback and drafts and editing from people. It's not like you're being rude, at least that I can understand, your examples appear pretty straightforward and to the point. It seems like they just want to put down one draft of something, consider it perfect, and move on. Sheer laziness, or ego, probably both.

A good chunk of them are best described like how Sleazy Car Salesman described CelticPhoenix; a third-rate Fanfiction writer. Criticism is more of a power word for them to use whenever they slander the Big M&K. They've never truly delivered one so don't expect them to even properly handle actual criticism getting dished out at them. Case in point, Raymond and his crew. With all the shit we talked about him, this thread alone is actually a good source of harsh but equally valid criticism, for his work, his management and, attitude, yet all he had done after finding this thread out is to drag Rhymes 19's name into the mud and kick her out of his discord to protect his fragile ego.

I've heard Jeff Williams is a terrible lyricist, but I have pretty much no understanding of songwriting, I just know a lot of the RWBY songs sound terrible. Can you go more into that? I feel like I'm learning a lot.

you don't need to have ears to know Jeff is a shit lyricist. I once brought up how he and Casey collaborated with Arknights, and so far their song is the weakest track released by Hypergryph.

Spoiler: Just so you can hear for yourself

Arknight's usual promotional soundtracks:

Jeff and Casey's Song for Arknights:

 

[Rhymes 19]

I've heard Jeff Williams is a terrible lyricist, but I have pretty much no understanding of songwriting, I just know a lot of the RWBY songs sound terrible. Can you go more into that? I feel like I'm learning a lot.

I'll cover a few songs just to cover a wider breadth of concepts, with some quick notes I wrote up.

Spoiler: Character Theme

One Thing is Neo's theme, given to her in volume 6. Despite Neo being known for her style, grace, and finesse, One Thing is the same dull butt rock as the rest of the soundtrack. Jeff dislikes straying from this genre, perhaps because it requires less thinking on a composer's part. However, it doesn't represent the character well. Being mute, a lyrical theme for Neo should be carefully written to use few words and use them well. Instead, Jeff chooses to repeat "I'm angry because my friend is dead" for every stanza, which is a huge waste of words that could've been used to tell us more about Neo.

Spoiler: Grimdark

Aside from having an audio signature comparable to that of a waterfall, When It Falls also struggles lyrically. Casey was not the right singer for a song like this, that much is obvious, and Jeff trying to harmonize behind her only makes things worse. The lyrics are grimdark in that meaningless way that doesn't really tell us anything. I assume this is what SYTO tried to copy.

Spoiler: Empowerment

Be Strong and Hit Stuff is from Volume 8 and is a nightmare. It's supposed to be a "fuck the haters" song a la Shake It Off but with no centralized message and not even a catchy beat and reads like it was written by someone having a stroke.

With all the shit we talked about him, this thread alone is actually a good source of harsh but equally valid criticism, for his work, his management and, attitude, yet all he had done after finding this thread out is to drag Rhymes 19's name into the mud and kick her out of his discord to protect his fragile ego.

Wait, did he talk about me since? Has he found this thread? I entered this thread after he kicked me.

 

[The Periodic Gamer]

you don't need to have ears to know Jeff is a shit lyricist. I once brought up how he and Casey collaborated with Arknights, and so far their song is the weakest track released by Hypergryph.

Meh. The RWBY songs are so-so.

This will be the day in particular is very good. The rest? Not so much. Theres a sliver of something good in most of his songs, but they never really hit home.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

This will be the day in particular is very good. The rest? Not so much. Theres a sliver of something good in most of his songs, but they never really hit home.

Even This Will Be The Day isn't that great, if they had a better singer it would be better but it's nothing special.

 

[Decepticon Spy]

I entered this thread after he kicked me.

Oof thanks for the clarification, don't usually miss crucial info like that, Me living in a different time zone doesn't help either since most of my posts here are either late-night in Western Time or in Moments of Sleep deprivation.

Wait, did he talk about me since?

Not too far fetched going by his attitude problems, kicking someone out of your server and then proceed to call them 'Evil' and 'Bigoted' is not what a healthy human mind would do.

Has he found this thread?

Well the 'finding out the thread' part is definitely on me not reading posts thoroughly, but we can't just assume they don't lurk here either, Kiwi Farms had always primarily been a gossip website and this thread is a niche within a niche itself but instances of cows and stans making an account to defend themselves had occurred before.

Meh. The RWBY songs are so-so.

This will be the day in particular is very good. The rest? Not so much. Theres a sliver of something good in most of his songs, but they never really hit home.

Mediocrity is the death of Music, even bad tracks get publicity while so-so ones get none. 'This will be the day' is a good track at first listen but once you listened to better things in the same genre, it pretty much loses its punch.

 

[Mega Black]

dolization is one hell of a drug, specially for autists. Shane branding the fandom as "The True Bearer's of Monty's Legacy" just inflated their heads tenfold. They also have what I like to call as 'Syndrome Complex' where fanboys had gained a sense of entitlement and an obsessive attachment to their hero through prolonged Idol worship. The fact that RT had painted itself a target for massive scapegoating for handling his case ever so-poorly doesn't help dissuade their delusion of grandeur either.

This makes a lot of sense. I guess Shane's letter did do some damage in the long run, and Roosterteeth's implosion hasn't helped matters. At this point, fans feel like RWBY has been destroyed by RT incompetence and only the fanbase can swoop in to save it.

I'll cover a few songs just to cover a wider breadth of concepts, with some quick notes I wrote up.

Spoiler: Character Theme

One Thing is Neo's theme, given to her in volume 6. Despite Neo being known for her style, grace, and finesse, One Thing is the same dull butt rock as the rest of the soundtrack. Jeff dislikes straying from this genre, perhaps because it requires less thinking on a composer's part. However, it doesn't represent the character well. Being mute, a lyrical theme for Neo should be carefully written to use few words and use them well. Instead, Jeff chooses to repeat "I'm angry because my friend is dead" for every stanza, which is a huge waste of words that could've been used to tell us more about Neo.
View attachment 2929072

Spoiler: Grimdark

Aside from having an audio signature comparable to that of a waterfall, When It Falls also struggles lyrically. Casey was not the right singer for a song like this, that much is obvious, and Jeff trying to harmonize behind her only makes things worse. The lyrics are grimdark in that meaningless way that doesn't really tell us anything. I assume this is what SYTO tried to copy.
View attachment 2929109

Spoiler: Empowerment

Be Strong and Hit Stuff is from Volume 8 and is a nightmare. It's supposed to be a "fuck the haters" song a la Shake It Off but with no centralized message and not even a catchy beat and reads like it was written by someone having a stroke.
View attachment 2929144

Wait, did he talk about me since? Has he found this thread? I entered this thread after he kicked me.

This is really interesting, thanks. Honestly I forgot just how terrible some of the latest themes have been. Whenever I find myself thinking 'eh, RWBY music ain't that bad' it tends to come before listening to anything post V3. I find the later soundtracks so utterly forgettable, they're exactly what you expect and feel incredibly phoned in. Just like the rest of the show, huh, go figure.

Even This Will Be The Day isn't that great, if they had a better singer it would be better but it's nothing special.

I've always felt like RWBY's soundtrack could be improved immensely by adding some fresh blood into the tracks. Hero was a nice reprieve from Jeff's incessant screeching, bring in a couple of other artists to make their own songs, give some characters a unique sound all their own. I'm sure they don't want to do that because then something in RWBY would run the chance of being good, and thus collapse the whole production.

 

[Random Internet Person]

This makes a lot of sense. I guess Shane's letter did do some damage in the long run, and Roosterteeth's implosion hasn't helped matters. At this point, fans feel like RWBY has been destroyed by RT incompetence and only the fanbase can swoop in to save it.

Hasn’t the last few pages been all about fans trying to “save the series”? Look at how that’s gone.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

Hasn’t the last few pages been all about fans trying to “save the series”? Look at how that’s gone.

It's gone well for the activity level of this thread.

 

[Mega Black]

Hasn’t the last few pages been all about fans trying to “save the series”? Look at how that’s gone.

You misunderstood, I'm not saying that's true or a good thing, I'm saying that's what they think.

 

[Rhymes 19]

Mediocrity is the death of Music, even bad tracks get publicity while so-so ones get none. 'This will be the day' is a good track at first listen but once you listened to better things in the same genre, it pretty much loses its punch.

I've always felt like RWBY's soundtrack could be improved immensely by adding some fresh blood into the tracks. Hero was a nice reprieve from Jeff's incessant screeching, bring in a couple of other artists to make their own songs, give some characters a unique sound all their own. I'm sure they don't want to do that because then something in RWBY would run the chance of being good, and thus collapse the whole production.

I actually agree that This Will Be The Day is a pretty good track, as are Red Like Roses and Mirror, Mirror, but I believe the latter two were ghost written due to how wildly different the style is from everything else. RWBY's songs would absolutely benefit from anyone who isn't a narcissist that thinks he's better than Metallica (something he actually said) or his chip off the old block. The songs have trended more towards mediocrity because for some reason, the writers stopped giving Jeff story details, so he's forced to write more and more generic songs with nothing lyrics. V1-V3 had some good tracks and some abysmal ones, but at least they were memorable .

This is really interesting, thanks. Honestly I forgot just how terrible some of the latest themes have been. Whenever I find myself thinking 'eh, RWBY music ain't that bad' it tends to come before listening to anything post V3. I find the later soundtracks so utterly forgettable, they're exactly what you expect and feel incredibly phoned in. Just like the rest of the show, huh, go figure.

I'm glad you appreciate it. I'm always happy to share what I've learned about lyric theory.

 

[Decepticon Spy]

a narcissist that thinks he's better than Metallica (something he actually said)

>Garbage tier Lyricist
>Ear Bleeding Butt-Rock
>is a 'Literally who' MoFo without RWBY
>Thinks he's better than Metallica
>MFW



I'm no Metallica fan and I'm only familiar with Master of Puppets and its notorious solo that sounded like it came from a $5 chinese toy, but bullshit he's better than them in any shape of form. Fucker must've been high as a rocket from huffing his own ass gas if he can say that with a straight face and zero self-awareness.

Also Fun little fact: Metallica inspired old DOOM OST, that's the reason why At Doom's Gate and some parts of Master of Puppets sounds similar.

 

[Rhymes 19]

>Garbage tier Lyricist
>Ear Bleeding Butt-Rock
>is a 'Literally who' MoFo without RWBY
>Thinks he's better than Metallica
>MFW
View attachment 2930963


I'm no Metallica fan and I'm only familiar with Master of Puppets and its notorious solo that sounded like it came from a $5 chinese toy, but bullshit he's better than them in any shape of form. Fucker must've been high as a rocket from huffing his own ass gas if he can say that with a straight face and zero self-awareness.

Also Fun little fact: Metallica inspired old DOOM OST, that's the reason why At Doom's Gate and some parts of Master of Puppets sounds similar.

(These are from sometime in 2018, I forget the exact date)
"Maybe when I retire I'll fix all those shitty solo," says man who thinks guitar solos are about playing guitar very fast for 16 bars.

 

[Dumpster dived waifu]

>Garbage tier Lyricist
>Ear Bleeding Butt-Rock
>is a 'Literally who' MoFo without RWBY
>Thinks he's better than Metallica
>MFW
View attachment 2930963


I'm no Metallica fan and I'm only familiar with Master of Puppets and its notorious solo that sounded like it came from a $5 chinese toy, but bullshit he's better than them in any shape of form. Fucker must've been high as a rocket from huffing his own ass gas if he can say that with a straight face and zero self-awareness.

You'd be surprised how many people over at RT huff their own farts and think they are godsent gifts to mankind thanks to how fans treat them.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

I'm no Metallica fan and I'm only familiar with Master of Puppets and its notorious solo that sounded like it came from a $5 chinese toy, but bullshit he's better than them in any shape of form. Fucker must've been high as a rocket from huffing his own ass gas if he can say that with a straight face and zero self-awareness.

The nice thing about Metallica is that each album is sufficiently different that if you don't like one you may like one of the others, If you didn't like Master of Puppets try something off of the ...And Justice For All album or the Black Album, both of those are slightly less thrash.

EDIT: I decided to look up Jeff Williams' composer credits and I've come to the conclusion that he has literally never composed a song for something that I like.

 

[Decepticon Spy]

You'd be surprised how many people over at RT huff their own farts and think they are godsent gifts to mankind thanks to how fans treat them.

Oh don't get me wrong I know Rooster Teeth has a lot of fart huffers. What got me laughing my ass off though is that Jeff Williams, a literally who songwriter, act like he's hot shit and thinks he's better than one of the most influential bands in the planet.

The nice thing about Metallica is that each album is sufficiently different that if you don't like one you may like one of the others, If you didn't like Master of Puppets try something off of the ...And Justice For All album or the Black Album, both of those are slightly less thrash.

EDIT: I decided to look up Jeff Williams' composer credits and I've come to the conclusion that he has literally never composed a song for something that I like.

Exactly, a good songwriter and/or composer can appeal to anyone in their genre of choice. That's also the reason why comparing Metallica and Jeff is like comparing Earth to Pluto, one is diverse, lively, and teeming with energy, while the other is barren, soulless, and their status as a songwriter is pretty much debatable.

 

[The Periodic Gamer]

Mediocrity is the death of Music, even bad tracks get publicity while so-so ones get none. 'This will be the day' is a good track at first listen but once you listened to better things in the same genre, it pretty much loses its punch.

Lol. Mediocrity is the death of any artistic medium. As a writer deeply involved in the scene, I see excellent, highly adept works ignored constantly in favor of talentless hacks that can barely string a sentence together with reasonable grammar, let alone use their sentences and paragraphs to sing.

This is nothing new. There is no accounting for the preferences of the public. And really, when art is made for the public, and they choose something relatively unskilled, who I am I to tell them their wrong? The public likes the work, and by that standard, any art can be good art if you are judging it on the public appeal

I've always felt like RWBY's soundtrack could be improved immensely by adding some fresh blood into the tracks. Hero was a nice reprieve from Jeff's incessant screeching, bring in a couple of other artists to make their own songs, give some characters a unique sound all their own. I'm sure they don't want to do that because then something in RWBY would run the chance of being good, and thus collapse the whole production.

I don't know. I didn't really like hero. It has the same problem the rest of the songs have. They have choice moments that are really good. They give you chills. Then the rest stumble along like a bull in a china shop.

I actually agree that This Will Be The Day is a pretty good track, as are Red Like Roses and Mirror, Mirror, but I believe the latter two were ghost written due to how wildly different the style is from everything else. RWBY's songs would absolutely benefit from anyone who isn't a narcissist that thinks he's better than Metallica (something he actually said) or his chip off the old block. The songs have trended more towards mediocrity because for some reason, the writers stopped giving Jeff story details, so he's forced to write more and more generic songs with nothing lyrics. V1-V3 had some good tracks and some abysmal ones, but at least they were memorable .

You had my curiosity, but now you have my attention. Why do you think it's ghost written. Feel free to get as technical as you want.

 

[Rhymes 19]

I don't know. I didn't really like hero. It has the same problem the rest of the songs have. They have choice moments that are really good. They give you chills. Then the rest stumble along like a bull in a china shop.

It's always frustrating how close some of the songs get to being good, only to be held back by one or two choices like Jeff's awful, ubiquitous vocal harmonies or a sloppy transition to butt rock.

You had my curiosity, but now you have my attention. Why do you think it's ghost written. Feel free to get as technical as you want.

1) Genre. Neither songs are rock, and they do not resemble Jeff's other genres (uncanny pop that feels like it's not from any era, melodramatic piano ballads, and weird use of jazz instruments).
2) Instrumentation. Jeff's preference for metal guitar almost always leads to crunched solos at least one time in a song, whereas in the two songs in question they're entirely absent. Red Like Roses uses Spanish guitar as a lead and Mirror, Mirror is devoid of them. Further, Jeff likes to cram things and mix them all super loud. RLR has a sparse, dynamic composition underscored by strings and percussion. Mirror has a pretty impressive array of different parts that build up well. The drums are simple and restrained, while Jeff has otherwise preferred crowded drum machine lines and fills. Both songs handle their buildups well; Jeff prefers hard transitions. Jeff also dislikes subtlety and using tiny effects like these two songs do. From Shadows has tone changes that are very jarring and sounds like 4 songs smashed together as opposed to a solid song.
3) Vocals. Casey was classically trained, and these two tracks understand where her range lies. She seems more comfortable in that high head voice, as opposed to shrieking out of her key. Jeff has yet to provide Casey with many other songs that are in her range. Father of The Year. There's also a lack of Jeff's preferred harmony style.
4) Lyrics. Both these songs have minimal, vague lyrics that lean much more heavily towards poetic than any of the other songs in V1. In case you've blocked it out of your mind, From Shadows starts with "Born with/No life/Into subjugation."
5) Further attempts. Jeff has yet to even try RLR's style since, and the Mirror derivatives "Mirror Mirror Pt. II" and "Path To Isolation" each have their own issues. Pt. II has much less graceful lyrics and instrumentals that feel like the composer was uncomfortable being minimal. The second verse even tries a clap-snare thing at like, 60bpm. Path To Isolation is a much better song, and its first half comes close to its original form, but then it slaps you in the face with a ridiculous buttrock part.

I also have suspicions about This Will Be The Day, due to the effects and harmonies over the vocals (yet to be replicated by Jeff) and the much stronger lyrics. It also doesn't strain Casey's vocals as much.

 

[The Periodic Gamer]

1) Genre. Neither songs are rock, and they do not resemble Jeff's other genres (uncanny pop that feels like it's not from any era, melodramatic piano ballads, and weird use of jazz instruments).
2) Instrumentation. Jeff's preference for metal guitar almost always leads to crunched solos at least one time in a song, whereas in the two songs in question they're entirely absent. Red Like Roses uses Spanish guitar as a lead and Mirror, Mirror is devoid of them. Further, Jeff likes to cram things and mix them all super loud. RLR has a sparse, dynamic composition underscored by strings and percussion. Mirror has a pretty impressive array of different parts that build up well. The drums are simple and restrained, while Jeff has otherwise preferred crowded drum machine lines and fills. Both songs handle their buildups well; Jeff prefers hard transitions. Jeff also dislikes subtlety and using tiny effects like these two songs do. From Shadows has tone changes that are very jarring and sounds like 4 songs smashed together as opposed to a solid song.
3) Vocals. Casey was classically trained, and these two tracks understand where her range lies. She seems more comfortable in that high head voice, as opposed to shrieking out of her key. Jeff has yet to provide Casey with many other songs that are in her range. Father of The Year. There's also a lack of Jeff's preferred harmony style.
4) Lyrics. Both these songs have minimal, vague lyrics that lean much more heavily towards poetic than any of the other songs in V1. In case you've blocked it out of your mind, From Shadows starts with "Born with/No life/Into subjugation."
5) Further attempts. Jeff has yet to even try RLR's style since, and the Mirror derivatives "Mirror Mirror Pt. II" and "Path To Isolation" each have their own issues. Pt. II has much less graceful lyrics and instrumentals that feel like the composer was uncomfortable being minimal. The second verse even tries a clap-snare thing at like, 60bpm. Path To Isolation is a much better song, and its first half comes close to its original form, but then it slaps you in the face with a ridiculous buttrock part.

I also have suspicions about This Will Be The Day, due to the effects and harmonies over the vocals (yet to be replicated by Jeff) and the much stronger lyrics. It also doesn't strain Casey's vocals as much.

Yeah. From Shadows was cancer. I deleted it from my phone because it was just a flat out bad song.

I don't mind blunt. Micheal Jacksons They Don't Really Care About Us was blunt. But Jeff doesn't seem to know how to structure his rhymes. It's like he doesn't use beats at all.

 

[Rhymes 19]

Yeah. From Shadows was cancer. I deleted it from my phone because it was just a flat out bad song.

I don't mind blunt. Micheal Jacksons They Don't Really Care About Us was blunt. But Jeff doesn't seem to know how to structure his rhymes. It's like he doesn't use beats at all.

When I explain masculine vs feminine rhyme to people I use It's My Turn's "Don't be foolish/Give up your wish." This should be basic stuff, how does that not sound wrong in your head?