RWBY - The Hindenburg on which Rooster Teeth rests its hopes, dreams and future

[Tism the Return II]

Thoughts?

Weapon grade copium.

 

[Tom Honks]

Straight up desperation.

 

[Mega Black]

Shit is for sure dead if they didn't get the greenlight by RTX. This is what they get for deciding to do a fucking filler volume right when the show was finally gearing up for something. They all thought they had a blank check and were going to drag this show out for as long as possible. Turns out all they did was kill it with no conclusion.

If you can't finish your show's storyline by season 5, since that is where most good shows conclude, then you are setting yourself up for failure.

 

[Dumpster dived waifu]

Naw guys, it's actually perfectly fine for the show that had airing rights sold off to a 3rd party to have to wait this long for a greenlight. The series is doing fine, ignore the flaming dumpster in the background, it's irrelevant.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

If you can't finish your show's storyline by season 5, since that is where most good shows conclude, then you are setting yourself up for failure.

Pretty much, honestly three seasons and even then you're really pushing it. I think a single twelve or twenty-five episode season should be more than enough to tell your story and if you need to add more onto that then just do a new story self contained within a new season.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

Pretty much, honestly three seasons and even then you're really pushing it. I think a single twelve or twenty-five episode season should be more than enough to tell your story and if you need to add more onto that then just do a new story self contained within a new season.

I won't go that far. There are such a thing as an epic tale, and those need a lot of time to tell. Ruby's problem isn't its length, its the fact that the story it tried to tell wasn't particularly good.

 

[Mega Black]

Pretty much, honestly three seasons and even then you're really pushing it. I think a single twelve or twenty-five episode season should be more than enough to tell your story and if you need to add more onto that then just do a new story self contained within a new season.

RWBY never should have had a massively serialized plot. All it's best moments are self contained.

I won't go that far. There are such a thing as an epic tale, and those need a lot of time to tell. Ruby's problem isn't its length, its the fact that the story it tried to tell wasn't particularly good.

While your statement is largely true I think five seasons is more than enough to do something truly epic. RWBY never had a story, then decided four seasons in it wanted to be Avatar, but then it was also a massive milk maker for the company so they stretched it as much as possible.

The whole thing is just a cluster fuck. Premature cancellation was the last massive fuck up the show could possibly have managed so I am not at all surprised but still very amused that it managed such a thing.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

I won't go that far. There are such a thing as an epic tale, and those need a lot of time to tell. Ruby's problem isn't its length, its the fact that the story it tried to tell wasn't particularly good.

Typically a season is between ten and twenty-five episodes, and each episode will be between 22 and 45 minutes long. Typically.

Five seasons each with ten episodes which are each 22 minutes long will give you a little over eighteen hours of run time. Eighteen hours and twenty minutes if you want to be precise. If it takes you longer than that to tell your "epic story" then I really don't have any advice for you besides maybe don't do that.

Edit to add: Even if we cut that down further by adding the customary three minutes of opening and ending that animes will typically have that still gives you fifteen hours of actual story time.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

Typically a season is between ten and twenty-five episodes, and each episode will be between 22 and 45 minutes long. Typically.

Five seasons each with ten episodes which are each 22 minutes long will give you a little over eighteen hours of run time. Eighteen hours and twenty minutes if you want to be precise. If it takes you longer than that to tell your "epic story" then I really don't have any advice for you besides maybe don't do that.

While your statement is largely true I think five seasons is more than enough to do something truly epic.

One Piece has managed to tell an entertaining and bestselling epic story for over two decades now and shows no signs of slowing down or faltering. Hajime no Ippo has been running since the 80s. Mushoku Tensei has just taken a full season (two cours) just to tell the childhood and infancy and of the main character. At this rate, it may take upwards of five to tell the whole story.

To reiterate, if you have a worthwhile story to tell, then length isn't an issue. The problem is that RWBY never had a worthwhile story to tell.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

One Piece has managed to tell an entertaining and bestselling epic story for over two decades now

No it has not.

Hajime no Ippo has been running since the 80s.

And most soap operas have been running even longer than that, the length of time something runs for does not mean it is quality, only that it has a rabid fan base or that it's a nice money laundering scheme.

Mushoku Tensei has just taken a full season (two cours) just to tell the childhood and infancy and of the main character.

Yes and each of those seasons is a smaller arc that can be watched on their own with nothing more than a brief synopsis of what has come before, which is exactly what I said here:

I think a single twelve or twenty-five episode season should be more than enough to tell your story and if you need to add more onto that then just do a new story self contained within a new season.

To reiterate, if you have a worthwhile story to tell, then length isn't an issue.

It absolutely is, length means time investment and it also means needing to pay more attention as the story (inevitably) becomes more complex and convoluted over that span of time. Some people just simply have better things to do than homework and quite frankly I think that if you're going to tell a story that long print is by far and away the superior medium for it. You'll also notice that every single one of your examples are adapted from print and are not original works of animation, television, or cinema.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

Yes and each of those seasons is a smaller arc that can be watched on their own with nothing more than a brief synopsis of what has come before, which is exactly what I said here:

Not really? Its a long continuous story. If you don't watch from the beginning, you won't have any idea of what's going on why anything is happening, or who anyone is, because the story doesn't go over that info twice.

It absolutely is, length means time investment and it also means needing to pay more attention as the story (inevitably) becomes more complex and convoluted over that span of time. Some people just simply have better things to do than homework

And that's entirely an individual's choice. Other people love long, flowing narratives. Its just a matter of taste.

You'll also notice that every single one of your examples are adapted from print and are not original works of animation, television, or cinema.

And? They were all eventually adapted to visual mediums that ran for long periods, so its a moot point. Many people who watch the tv shows have never read the print versions. I could have listed long running tv shows as well (Better Call Saul is six seasons in), but its largely not necessary.

No it has not.

Opinions my man, everyone has them. But One Piece is the best selling manga in the world, a long running anime, and still the most successful shonen around, so it must be doing something right.

And most soap operas have been running even longer than that, the length of time something runs for does not mean it is quality,

And in the same vein, just because something is long, does not mean it lacks quality.

 

[Mega Black]

And in the same vein, just because something is long, does not mean it lacks quality.

There are always going to be exceptions to any general rule of thumb but in my experience, 5/6 seasons is the absolute most you can squeeze out of a premise before it goes zombie mode and crashes and burns or concludes satisfactorily.

One Piece is a beast of an IP with debatable storytelling quality and isn't exactly something I'd recommend anyone try to emulate. RWBY did want to be an epic with a giant world and lots of lore and characters, but it just wasn't a premise that lends itself well to serialized adventure storytelling. Having multiple seasons of the characters literally traveling from A to B sounds like a great idea for world building and epic adventures along the main road but all it wound up being was filler.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

One Piece is a beast of an IP with debatable storytelling quality and isn't exactly something I'd recommend anyone try to emulate.

Oh hell naw, One Piece isn't in any way something to be emulated. That author is insane, pushing out a chapter a week for the better part of three decades, with few breaks, and setting up plot points literally years in advance just to pay them off years down the line. But truly exemplary authors like that are rare in any case.

RWBY did want to be an epic with a giant world and lots of lore and characters, but it just wasn't a premise that lends itself well to serialized adventure storytelling. Having multiple seasons of the characters literally traveling from A to B sounds like a great idea for world building and epic adventures along the main road but all it wound up being was filler.

A lot of that is down to the lack of skill on the part of the writers. None of them had experience in serialized, long form storytelling. At best, they were good comedy writers. But the skill to right an episodic comedy show is not the same skill as the one necessary to write a good serialized story.

 

[I Love Beef]

There are always going to be exceptions to any general rule of thumb but in my experience, 5/6 seasons is the absolute most you can squeeze out of a premise before it goes zombie mode and crashes and burns or concludes satisfactorily.

One Piece is a beast of an IP with debatable storytelling quality and isn't exactly something I'd recommend anyone try to emulate. RWBY did want to be an epic with a giant world and lots of lore and characters, but it just wasn't a premise that lends itself well to serialized adventure storytelling. Having multiple seasons of the characters literally traveling from A to B sounds like a great idea for world building and epic adventures along the main road but all it wound up being was filler.

Oh hell naw, One Piece isn't in any way something to be emulated. That author is insane, pushing out a chapter a week for the better part of three decades, with few breaks, and setting up plot points literally years in advance just to pay them off years down the wife. But truly exemplary authors like that are rare in any case.


A lot of that is down to the lack of skill on the part of the writers. None of them had experience in serialized, long form storytelling. At best, they were good comedy writers. But the skill to right an episodic comedy show is not the same skill as the one necessary to write a good serialized story.

Fun fact, has anyone read Niggle's Leaf? That's a short story by JRR Tolkien that is supposed to be a creative venting of his frustrations while he was working on Middle Earth, the Simiarillion, and Lord of the Rings. The reality is that creating the world for an amazing story is not as simple as everyone thinks. Hard work, no matter the line of work, is always necessary for success and results. It's also known that JRR Tolkien didn't get renown until he was in his later years.

One Piece is debatable, but it's a beast of its own. It's an epic story with a writer who has their own vision and is willing to see it through. Not my cup of tea, but life is a buffet.

I am still sticking with what I've always said about Monty and the two hacks: Monty really should had delayed it to study writing and worldbuilding but instead innocuously left it to two writers who had no business writing about anime shit. No matter how pretty your work is, if there is no substance behind it, you are working with fragile decorations. If your substance has no creative investment behind it, whatever it may be, it will not last because of its inflexibility. If you have no investment, it will not live or thrive. Equivalent exchange and shit. That's why I'm highly skeptical of anyone who worships this supposedly "anime inspired" show that barely has any inspiration for its story other than made by committee amerime cartoons. It's more interested in jerking off and retelling Avatar than actually having any hardcore old school USA anime fan inspiration and subculture investment.

 

[Useful_Mistake]

Shit is for sure dead if they didn't get the greenlight by RTX. This is what they get for deciding to do a fucking filler volume right when the show was finally gearing up for something. They all thought they had a blank check and were going to drag this show out for as long as possible. Turns out all they did was kill it with no conclusion.

It’s technically not a filler volume though this might bring “not real communism” vibes. What Vol 9 was is threefold:
1. A thinly veiled excuse to finally get two of the main cast together without the plot getting in the way
2. Resolving “let’s torture Ruby” arc they’ve been building up since like Volume 6 (and solve all the consequences without the plot getting in the way)
3. Drop some last minute lore on some characters that haven’t been relevant since Vol 6 (the Gods) while potentially finally setting up the plotline regarding Summer’s death, and Raven’s hand in it.

Problem is, most of this volume is Blake fangirling that she’s an OC self insert in Alice in Wonderland, and that important parts were made with no thought behind them (Jaune having to suffer two decades being alone (with literally no changes bar appearance and one time show of mild insanity) was made up because the Authors just wanted to have Jaune suffer. Their entire thought process was, and I quote, “just be different”). What ends up happening that aside from the kiss and the potential storyline set up the volume seems entirely self contained.

Tldr: there are parts of it that don’t make it technically filler, but I get where you’re coming from.

 

[Mega Black]

A thinly veiled excuse to finally get two of the main cast together without the plot getting in the way

See, the problem here is that 'the plot getting in the way' doesn't make any sense to me because your story shouldn't need to push the main narrative thrust out of the way for something so incredibly trivial. How many stories have had a romantic element that culminates along with the main story?

2. Resolving “let’s torture Ruby” arc

I guess it did sort of do that but much like what happened to Jaune the only thing it really did was reset Ruby back to zero. She got neither stronger or weaker.

So yes it was given the most tangential connection to the overall story but even Kerry described it as a 'breather volume', and I just can't imagine anything worse to try and crowbar into your narrative when the literal apocalypse is happening.

RWBY's insistence on never having the pacing go beyond absolutely glacial has really been one of the major Achilles heels that kills enjoyment in watching the show. Across nine seasons I would say over half if not more has been spent on shit that genuinely did not matter at all.

 

[Useful_Mistake]

RWBY's insistence on never having the pacing go beyond absolutely glacial has really been one of the major Achilles heels that kills enjoyment in watching the show. Across nine seasons I would say over half if not more has been spent on shit that genuinely did not matter at all.

I think another big problem is the melding volumes. So many of the volumes just meld into one. Can anyone tell me specifically what happened in Vol 6 as opposed to 7? Vol 6 and 7 blend in my mind to sorta a prelude to Vol 8’s story line.

 

[Random Internet Person]

I think another big problem is the melding volumes. So many of the volumes just meld into one. Can anyone tell me specifically what happened in Vol 6 as opposed to 7? Vol 6 and 7 blend in my mind to sorta a prelude to Vol 8’s story line.

Was that by design? When RWBY first got shipped to Japan, they fused 1-3 together while cutting out the filler.

 

[Useful_Mistake]

Was that by design? When RWBY first got shipped to Japan, they fused 1-3 together while cutting out the filler.

Idk if that was by design, but it’s hard to think super positively about some of their volumes when they blend in to other volumes. If I can’t remember in decent detail what Vol 7 was about, that’s not particularly a good sign. I haven’t seen any of the early One Piece in ages, but I still remember the core plotpoints of the arcs more or less

 

[TheAmbiguousLurker]

1. A thinly veiled excuse to finally get two of the main cast together without the plot getting in the way

Two characters who were already basically in a relationship in all but name kissing means nothing in terms of filler. It doesn't advance their character, it doesn't change anything between them and it doesn't push the story.

2. Resolving “let’s torture Ruby” arc they’ve been building up since like Volume 6 (and solve all the consequences without the plot getting in the way)

They haven't resolved shit. They've just repeated the same arc she's had in every volume since volume 6 with the same conclusion that will be reset next volume where they'll yet again have Ruby go 'Oh noes, maybe I'm not hundred percent perfect! But that's actually okay, I don't need to be perfect... But I'm still basically as perfect as you can be and anyone who disagrees is a villain.'. Ruby doesn't have a character arc, she has the world's tiniest character loop.

3. Drop some last minute lore on some characters that haven’t been relevant since Vol 6 (the Gods) while potentially finally setting up the plotline regarding Summer’s death, and Raven’s hand in it.

The scribbles on the back of the writer's hand that says 'The Gods came from another dimension' is absolutely worthless. It changes nothing, means nothing, effects nothing; it's a trivia note on their wiki page, that's it. And they've set up that Summer lied about her final mission being an Ozpin mission, that means... Something I'm sure. That makes an entire volume worth it.

There's no technicalities about it; it's filler. Nothing is advanced, nothing is accomplished that effects the overall story, everything of note that the characters' went through is either meaningless or almost literally swept under the rug with magic. If you skipped this volume, you'd miss nothing except Neo's (a character who's so superfluous that her entire existence was just an excuse to not show a character getting into a vehicle and returned purely for fan service) fate.