Off-Topic "Scientific" Studies regarding Transpeople

[bile demon]

Missed opportunity not putting "ACK!-ademic research" in the title.

 

[Positron]

View attachment 6034602
Missed opportunity not putting "ACK!-ademic research" in the title.

Keep it scientific; "AKC!-ademic" also means Retard Studies.

 

[Wallace]

Operative Complications, Vaginal Bleeding, and Practice Considerations for Patients on Testosterone Undergoing Gender-Affirming Hysterectomy​

This study demonstrates that testosterone use preoperatively may increase risk of intraoperative vaginal laceration requiring repair. Testosterone use also correlates with increased reports of vaginal bleeding through EMR message, phone call, and clinic visit. These results contribute new evidence to include in preoperative counselling and support existing evidence surrounding the safety of gender-affirming hysterectomy.

 

[FredTheGreat]

Hot new transphobic study recently dropped. It is only in German for now, but a translation should be out within the next couple of weeks. Google translate does an amazing job on German if you want to read it.
Gender identity disorders among young people in Germany: frequency and trends 2013–2022

The study analyzed German insurance data and looked for trends in the insurance codes F64 (Gender identity disorder) and F66 (Mental and behavioral disorders related to sexual development and orientation).

To no ones surprise, the number of gender identity disorder diagnoses has skyrocketed, up 800% in the last 10 years. The rate of F66 diagnoses has dropped at the same time, which implies more kids are likely being given a diagnosis of gender identity disorder instead.

In the period 2013-2022, the prevalence of confirmed coded F64 diagnoses increased from 22.5/100,000 insured persons aged 5 to 24 years to 175.7/100,000 (M1Q) and from 15.2/100,000 to 132.6/100,000 (M2Q). The frequency of the F64.0 diagnosis was fairly constant between 70.2% and 78.5%. At the same time, the prevalence of F66 diagnoses fell from 216.7/100,000 to 73.7/100,000 (M1Q) and from 37/100,000 to 19.4/100,000 (M2Q). When both diagnoses (F64/F66) are considered together, there is a clear increase in prevalence when the M2Q criterion is used. This increases from 51.9/100,000 to 149.8/100,000, while hardly any changes can be observed for M1Q (see Figure 1).

The study also mentions that people with gender identity disorder have high rates of other disorders such as depression, anxiety, and emotionally unstable personality disorder. Just a coincidence, I'm sure.

72.4% of people diagnosed with F64 in 2022 (n = 24,624) were coded with at least one other psychiatric diagnosis (male: 67.3%, female: 75.6%). The most common were depressive disorders (male: 49.3%, female: 57.5%), anxiety disorders (23.5%/34.0%), emotionally unstable personality disorders of the borderline type (12.1%/17.6%), attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder (12.7%/12.6%), and post-traumatic stress disorder (9.9%/13.6%).

However, the biggest bombshell is that more than half of young people in all age groups with "gender identity disorder" no longer had the diagnosis after five years. For "biological females" between ages 15-19, the desistance rate was 72.7%!

In the longitudinal cohort (n = 7 885, 47.1% 20- to 24-year-olds, 37.7% male), only 36.4% had a confirmed F64 diagnosis after five years, with diagnosis persistence < 50% in all age groups (27.3% [15- to 19-year-old women] to 49.7% [20- to 24-year-old men]).

This rate of desistence is far, far higher than what is reported in most other studies, but those studies often have shorter time horizons than 5 years, or have high amounts of loss to follow-up. Meanwhile, the way this study works, if someone ever tried to access any healthcare service related to their gender identity disorder (ex. an HRT prescription), the insurance code F64 would show up on their file. The fact that it doesn't is a very strong sign that they desisted.

There was a thread on /r/science about the study, but it was removed for having an "inappropriate headline". The mods complained that the title didn't mention the study used insurance data. However, Germany has universal healthcare so it isn't like the study will miss many cases. Using insurance data is also a million times more reliable than the self-selected transgender survey data Jack Turban's studies are based on. Knowing reddit, the same study would have been allowed to stay up if it found the opposite conclusion.

 

[AnOminous]

This rate of desistence is far, far higher than what is reported in most other studies, but those studies often have shorter time horizons than 5 years, or have high amounts of loss to follow-up. Meanwhile, the way this study works, if someone ever tried to access any healthcare service related to their gender identity disorder (ex. an HRT prescription), the insurance code F64 would show up on their file. The fact that it doesn't is a very strong sign that they desisted.

This is why these child molesters demand their victims immediately get mutilated, as soon as possible, because if they don't do it NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW they will change their minds as they grow up.

This is why troon groomers need to be put against a wall.

 

[FredTheGreat]

Found a German article on the study. I'd assumed the "Central Institute for Statutory Health Insurance" had access to all the insurance data in the country and they wouldn't need to go begging, but I guess not. It seems that they did have trouble getting insurance information from one insurance company due to their research being "too hot" of a subject.

The topic is "very politically charged," says Bachmann. "The public climate is not such that studies are encouraged. For example, during our study, a health insurance company refused to provide access to data for research purposes because the board felt the topic was 'too hot'."

I doubt they missed that many people though considering the study analyzed 14 million people between the ages of 5-24 over a 10 year period, and the country of Germany only has 84 million people. Also, the desistence rate would still be crazy high even if you cut it by 10% due to people leaving the country or switching to insurance companies not in the dataset.

 

[2SLGBQTIA+ 2 Furious]

Up to this point, forced teaming of LGB with TQ+ has been effective for the latter and one such area seems to be in campaigning to ban conversion therapy. The equivalence of sexual orientation with claims to be the opposite or neither sex is inherently false. I was wondering what proportion of gay conversion therapy was based in religion and what proportion was secular, with the expectation that the vast majority of conversion therapy faced by gay people would be religious, while trans people would report a more even split.

I found this 2021 study on conversion therapy [archive] by Coventry University for the UK's Government Equalities Office. Methodology was a review of 46 (mostly North American; keep an eye out for Jack Turban and Florence Ashley) articles and reports, and interviews with 30 UK people (24 cis, 6 trans or non-binary) who had undergone conversion therapy.

Findings from several published surveys suggest that conversion therapy tends to be delivered by religious providers (for example, Blosnich and others, 2020, Dehlin and others, 2015, Flentje, Heck and Cochran, 2013).

One study using random sampling found that over 80% of people who had experienced sexual orientation change efforts had conversion therapy from a religious provider (for example, a priest, pastor or religious counsellor). 31% had it from a healthcare provider (Blosnich and others, 2020).

No surprises so far, although lots of the studies included were self-selecting. They then focus on the UK 2017 National LGBT Survey.

Provider of conversion therapy	Percentage of respondents
Faith organisation or group	51%
Healthcare provider or medical professional	19%
Parent	16%
Any other individual or organisation not listed above	14%
Person from my community	9%

Transgender respondents were slightly less likely to have undergone conversion therapy by faith organisations or groups (45%) than cisgender respondents (53%). People who filled in the optional free-text question on conversion therapy (n=230) often did so in the context of religion.

The fact that healthcare providers or medical professionals were the second most commonly-reported providers of conversion therapy suggests there are still some healthcare professionals providing it. It is not clear how widespread this is. It is also possible that some healthcare professionals deliver conversion therapy while working or volunteering for religious organisations rather than in healthcare settings.[footnote 12] A much higher percentage of transgender respondents (29%) than cisgender respondents (15%) said their therapy had been conducted by healthcare professionals.

Several transgender, non-binary and asexual interviewees described be given what they thought was a type of conversion therapy by psychiatrists during inpatient and outpatient care while receiving treatment for a mental health condition (for example, schizophrenia). The treatment did not appear to be specifically designed to change their sexual orientation or gender identity. But one of its goals was getting them back to what the clinicians thought was ‘a normal life’, including aspects of their lives relating to their gender and sexuality.

Checks out, but self-selecting again, there's potential crossover between healthcare professionals and religious motivation and plenty of room for confusion in self-reporting of sex, sexual orientation and nature of the conversion attempts.

The authors then give an overview of spiritual/religious, psychoanalytic and cognitive-behavioural conversion therapies.

Psychoanalytic framework:

• Premise: Same-sex attractions and transgender identities are developmental disorders resulting from a variety of familial (for example, distant relationship with a parent), social (for example, rejection by childhood same-sex peers) or traumatic (for example, childhood sexual abuse) factors.
• Techniques include: Exploring ‘causes’ through a discussion of childhood trauma, psychodrama, emotional-release work, ‘father-son style holding’, altering gender-role behaviour.

Conversion therapy is when we talk, you give me a hug(?) and you ask me not to put emphasis on sex-based stereotypes.

Cognitive-behavioural framework:

• Premise: Same-sex attractions and transgender identities are a behavioural problem similar to an addiction or compulsive behaviour.
• Techniques include: Reframing desires, redirecting thoughts, avoiding ‘triggers’, abstaining from masturbation or masturbatory reconditioning, journaling, accountability buddies/groups, behaviour modelling, covert aversive methods (for example, snapping a rubber band on the wrist).
• Setting: One-to-one or group therapy or pastoral counselling, weekend retreats or courses, AA-style mutual aid groups (sometimes alongside people who suffer from addictions and/or sexual problems).

From "yes, sissy porn did make me trans" (Andrea Long Chu, 2019) to "attempts to provide mutual aid groups with people who suffer addictions and/or sexual problems should be punishable by law."

Although some forms of gender identity change efforts appear to be associated with religious ex-gay organisations (Robinson and Spivey, 2019), the grey literature suggests that other forms of conversion therapy may be more specific to transgender people. For instance, there have been reports of people sharing lists online of therapists for parents of transgender children seeking non-affirming therapists (Greenesmith, 2020, ILGA, 2020) (see also Ashley, 2019).

Affirm or you are practicing conversion therapy? Quite the binary you've got there.

Highlights from the interviews:

Interviewees commonly referred to psychoanalytic techniques such as looking for ‘causes’ by discussing childhood trauma and family relationships. They said therapists made suggestions as to the cause of their sexual orientation or gender identity.[footnote 10]

We started talking about my family history. The counsellor convinced me that because my mum left and my dad would spend more time with my 2 sisters… that I was looking for the attention my sisters had and that was the feelings for my gender identity, so they kept pushing that into my head.

(Transgender woman, pansexual, 20s, sexual orientation change efforts and gender identity change efforts)

Impossible.

Aversive techniques were not reported by interviewees. However, one transgender interviewee reported that a priest tried to instil fear by showing them a graphic video of gender reassignment surgery.

Nooooo you can't show me what I'm doing to my own body!

One transgender interviewee was threatened with eviction from the house she was renting from her church if she did not change her gender expression.

It became clear that they [church leaders] didn’t approve of it and I was frequently encouraged to go and listen to talks. They proceeded to arrange for some counselling sessions with one of their pastoral team. I was encouraged to part with all my female wardrobe… they said to me that if I wanted to carry on living there, I really had to stop all this silly stuff.

(Transgender woman, heterosexual, 50s, gender identity change efforts)

You might have a case but this seems more relevant to housing law. The sexual orientation of interviewees is self-reported so we should probably assume "Transgender woman, heterosexual, 50s" is HSTS.

 

[FredTheGreat]

The way they group all forms of "conversion therapy" together is so annoying. Electro-shocking people's balls if they think gay thoughts is not the same as talk therapy. Nothing bugs me more than how some blue states make it impossible to even try to talk someone out of their gender identity. It seems obvious that convincing someone they aren't transgender is way better for them in the long term. Otherwise, they are stuck on a treadmill of drugs/surgeries with increasingly bad side effects.

I really wish we could get a good study of "conversion therapy" vs trans-medicalization. The problem is it would need to be like a 20 year study where you compare two groups of kids. The first group you put on the medical pipeline with blockers and hormones. You let them access discord/reddit/tiktok and interact with trans/queer peer groups. The second group you put on antidepressants/antipsychotics and give talk therapy. You also encourage their parents to monitor the kid's internet access and remove them from trans/queer peer groups if possible.

It would be a decent study of how memetic transgender identity is. You can find a number of anecdotal stories that suggest isolating kids from trans influences generally works, and there are lower rates of queer identity in general in red states that are less accepting of them.

The majority of the second group would probably stop identifying as trans. They would also almost definitely have better life outcomes (better paying jobs, higher family formation, live longer, have healthier lives) than the first group.

 

[Dr. Eldon Tyrell]

The way they group all forms of "conversion therapy" together is so annoying. Electro-shocking people's balls if they think gay thoughts is not the same as talk therapy. Nothing bugs me more than how some blue states make it impossible to even try to talk someone out of their gender identity. It seems obvious that convincing someone they aren't transgender is way better for them in the long term. Otherwise, they are stuck on a treadmill of drugs/surgeries with increasingly bad side effects.

I really wish we could get a good study of "conversion therapy" vs trans-medicalization. The problem is it would need to be like a 20 year study where you compare two groups of kids. The first group you put on the medical pipeline with blockers and hormones. You let them access discord/reddit/tiktok and interact with trans/queer peer groups. The second group you put on antidepressants/antipsychotics and give talk therapy. You also encourage their parents to monitor the kid's internet access and remove them from trans/queer peer groups if possible.

It would be a decent study of how memetic transgender identity is. You can find a number of anecdotal stories that suggest isolating kids from trans influences generally works, and there are lower rates of queer identity in general in red states that are less accepting of them.

The majority of the second group would probably stop identifying as trans. They would also almost definitely have better life outcomes (better paying jobs, higher family formation, live longer, have healthier lives) than the first group.

But muh left handedness. Don't you know that after we stopped teaching children proper writing posture, that the children who insist writing with the wrong hand never exceed ~10% and that somehow proves that it's innate? It's really great, so instead of only having ~2% of children who smear over their wet ink we now have 10%!
If anything it should prove the opposite...
It's like saying we should let retarded kids just be their natural selves instead of teaching them how it's wrong to smear feces all over the place because it's closer to some vaguely defined natural state. So, sure let children write with their left if they insist but if their writing (challenge) is somehow always looking worse than their peer's maybe teach them the right way...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmoAX9f6MOc

(hmm, seems to be the wrong video ...don't care watching tho)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TZC8w5g_Qw&t=122s here take that asshole instead. If somebody knows what that fallacy they're peddling called, lemme know.

Thanks, John Oliver. How about leaving people do their thing as long as it doesn't harm anybody, including themselves, instead?

So, yeah, let them write with their left if they insist and they can actually (challenge) write as good as their peers is what I'm saying - Doesn't harm anybody if they can do it well but that's no really the case except when mirroring the glyphs and write direction... and I was told people can't read that... well some lefties have a good hand tbh but that's super rare and it always looks asinine from an ergonomic standpoint. Carpal tunnel and all that.

 

[D_Tractor]

Paediatric gender medicine: Longitudinal studies have not consistently shown improvement in depression or suicidality​

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/apa.17309

Full article attached as pdf.

Spoiler: Abstract of article

Kathleen McDeavitt

First published: 03 June 2024

Abstract​

Aim​

Systematic literature reviews have found the evidence for hormonal interventions in paediatric-age patients with gender dysphoria is of low certainty. Studies in this field have all been observational, and generally of low quality. Nevertheless, some experts assert that the observational studies in this field have consistently found improvement in mental health, and therefore constitute sufficient evidentiary basis for hormonal interventions. The present review sought to characterise results of the longitudinal clinical research studies that have reported depression and suicidality outcomes.

Methods​

The present review collated, from examination of six existing reviews, 14 longitudinal clinical research studies that have specifically investigated depression and/or suicidality outcomes.

Results​

Significantly positive depression outcomes were reported in six studies, and significantly positive suicidality outcomes in two studies. Outcomes were negative in the largest study. Notably, some studies articulated positive conclusions about hormonal interventions even in the setting of insignificant, small or negative findings.

Conclusions​

Analysis of longitudinal clinical research in this field showed inconsistent demonstration of benefit with respect to depression and suicidality. This analysis suggests that, contrary to assertions of some experts and North American professional medical organisations, the impact of hormonal interventions on depression and suicidality in this population is unknown.

 

[Nick Obre]

Paediatric gender medicine: Longitudinal studies have not consistently shown improvement in depression or suicidality

Fancy that

 

[RA-5C Vigilante]

I can imagine the seething of these “experts” when they got the wrong results.

 

[get_ur_gamon]

I can imagine the seething of these “experts” when they got the wrong results.

The science was already settled years ago chud. We have legions of anecdotal evidence that all these "long term studies" cannot debunk.

What you are doing is not the scientific method. Supporting trans people is. I'm sure the people who dedicated their lives to helping kids with gender dysphoria were probably all closeted nazi's anyway.

 

[Prokhor Zakharov]

The science was already settled years ago chud. We have legions of anecdotal evidence that all these "long term studies" cannot debunk.

What you are doing is not the scientific method. Supporting trans people is. I'm sure the people who dedicated their lives to helping kids with gender dysphoria were probably all closeted nazi's anyway.

It's like you're psychic

 

[Room Temp Shrimp]

The people who push this narrative today will pretend they were always skeptical tomorrow when it's seen for what it is

 

[Screamer_2]

They'll blame the people who said, "That can't possibly be the solution because that isn't a possible outcome. You literally cannot change your sex."

 

[Oliver Onions]

The science was already settled years ago chud. We have legions of anecdotal evidence that all these "long term studies" cannot debunk.

Who are you going to believe? My feelings or your lying facts?

 

[Dr. Eldon Tyrell]

They'll blame the people who said, "That can't possibly be the solution because that isn't a possible outcome. You literally cannot change your sex."

No, history will bury those who knew and tell everybody how it's actually great that society tried it out, so we could better outselves.
Those who always had their compass straight only have themselves to blame because we weren't as loud and aggressive as the other side. That's the common people's burden as always...

 

[AnOminous]

The people who push this narrative today will pretend they were always skeptical tomorrow when it's seen for what it is

How many shrines to Hitler do you have in your house that you worship every day?

Because only LITERAL CARD-CARRYING NAZIS realize that if you have a Y chromosome, you're a MAN!

 

[FredTheGreat]

Paediatric gender medicine: Longitudinal studies have not consistently shown improvement in depression or suicidality​

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/apa.17309 Full article attached as pdf.

It's nice to finally have an actual published study pointing this out. Jesse Signal has been complaining about this for years, but since he isn't a doctor trannies always shit on his posts.

I liked the shade from this line.

The conclusion in the Tordoff et al. study was particularly notable for claiming quantitative evidence of improvement even though study results showed no significant change in depression or suicidality outcomes over time.

And this part pointing out that most of the people doing research on this subject are loath to show negative results.

Ultimately, causality cannot be inferred from observational study data. Nevertheless, many studies analysed in the present evidence review, including studies with statistically insignificant, minor or negative findings, came to enthusiastically positive conclusions. A 2022 systematic review described a similar phenomenon, noting that ‘some studies were keen to present an optimistic picture. The focus on BDI-II score and appearance congruence improvement in a study in which there were two patient suicides is an example of this.

I'm surprised the author doesn't mention that the study with the suicides even pre-registered that they were going to look into certain things like self-harm, suicidality, and quality of life, and "mysteriously" those items were missing in the final paper. Almost like they file drawered the results when they were bad. Don't want the fact that hormones could cause increased suicide overshadowing the "great" result of people feeling better about their appearance.