SCP Foundation - Creepypasta with roid rage - now ITT: SCP fans

[alanshaffer3293]

1 - 3 million is a steal considering the revenue vs costs wikidot. It actually seems too good to be true: why doesn't Michael sell the company through traditional methods? Why doesn't he pay someone to run the platform for him so he can collect the passive income? Why doesn't he want to grow this platform which clearly has a lot of potential? Very strange to me

This isn't remotely true, wikidot is a massively declining site. The only reason its even still alive is because of the SCP ad rates - and even then it struggles to break even.

 

[ToS]

This isn't remotely true, wikidot is a massively declining site. The only reason its even still alive is because of the SCP ad rates - and even then it struggles to break even.

SCP is unique in the Wikidot universe in that they have a pro account but are still forced to feature ads on their site. That the dude listed it as the first example also tells you it is the cash cow of Wikidot. I think they recently put more ads on O5 command as well, IIRC.

If SCP bought Wikidot, kiss RPC goodbye.

 

[Punished “Venom” pH]

SCP is unique in the Wikidot universe in that they have a pro account but are still forced to feature ads on their site. That the dude listed it as the first example also tells you it is the cash cow of Wikidot. I think they recently put more ads on O5 command as well, IIRC.

If SCP bought Wikidot, kiss RPC goodbye.

Imagine if the SCP-RU thing had gone down in a time where SCPss owned WikiDot, there would have been no Duksin case because -RU would have ceased to exist.

#standwithscpRU

 

[ToS]

Just now getting to read the rest of these:

Since we're discussing him, here's some PMs from our good friend Procyon. Topics include:
-Procyon being in a polyamorous relationship with Fantem, another wiki user.
-Something about a drama with the Russian branch. Harmony, can you give context for this? I'm not sure what it's about.
-Procyon not wanting a Junior Staff member to be promoted for being in contact with Xenomorph, a troll who was conveniently just mentioned in this thread. Procyon would go on to do everything in his power (archive) to prevent this person from being promoted to Operational Staff. I'm pretty sure this person also submitted a statement about their experience with the wiki to this thread at some point, but I don't want to dig that up right now.
-Procyon felt that Moose wasn't a great Admin and wanted other people to take over. Moose was apparently fielding complaints about Procyon's shitty behavior at some point, so I can't help but suspect ulterior motives here. That's just my thoughts, though.

From the 3rd text file:

8:05:23 PM P<ProcyonLotor> Xeno's got a sock who I'm handling, just needed to clarify some things before I went claws out
8:05:31 PM A<AbsentmindedNihilist> sighhhhhhh
8:05:41 PM and i thought he was doing better
8:05:46 PM i hoped he had moved on
8:05:53 PM not so, it seems
8:05:55 PM P<ProcyonLotor> I've every intention of this being the last time, by hook or crook
8:05:59 PM We'll see.
8:06:18 PM A<AbsentmindedNihilist> you sound like an evil doctor seuss character i love it
8:12:21 PM P<ProcyonLotor> :3
8:12:26 PM that is my new aesthetic

and

00:48:12: <ProcyonLotor> Other operators and myself believed it entirely too convenient that Xeno chose to come clean immediately after a number of non-staff/non-op users became aware. I believe that AN's more or less above suspicion, but Levi more or less says he's actively talking to Xeno within that timeframe.
...
00:50:52: <ProcyonLotor> I don't think Xeno has any pals among staff, and he pissed off AN something fierce, which leaves Levi as the only way the fact I was onto something could have reached him. Now (as far as I'm aware), he didn't actually break any site rules, and your JS are your JS, but I'll at least express severe reservations about him continuing to hold staff status.

Isn't it great to not have to be sure of an assumption, and just push it through based on suspicion as it is entirely too convenient? Yet the same degree of inconvenient overlap (e.g. Bright is a groomer) is denied and "without merit" when it is aimed at staff. And SCP staff want to say KF are the ones who run wild with theories lacking evidence.

Someone who is a current SCP user asked earlier how SCP can become better. Here's one answer: get rid of people like ProcyonLotor in staff positions. But as someone else said, if Bright grooming kids and Procyon doxxing and harassing a kid IRL, ARD and ProcyonLotor being in a IRC chat whose name is a swastika... if none of that does the trick, nothing but public pressure that threatens their PR will, because pressure to show integrity can't come from within themselves.

It's funny that you should mention that, because Procyon and Roget planned to do something similar to the CI wiki (I think it was the CI wiki, anyway) ages ago. I think they were trying to have someone they didn't like on the CI staff team removed. So strong-arming groups they don't like is now a pattern of behavior for them. I initially neglected to include this because it's super old, but now that it's relevant, I've attached the PMs below.

From these:

03:01:01: <rogaway> I think I might just insert myself to be more official, since I think our relationship with them has evolved to that level

For anyone doubting that Internet Outreach isn't a means by which to control content. The team was created after the Summer 2018 logo fiasco specifically in order to get a better grip on squashing potential scandals.

Talking about their "diplomacy" with alt anomalous fiction writing site, Chaos Insurgency:

03:14:31: <ProcyonLotor> Actually, scratch that. Ed's resolved to remove him.
03:15:01: <Roget> Oh good. Did you need to threaten him with any ultimatum?
03:15:16: <ProcyonLotor> I did not, which makes me happy.
03:15:22: <ProcyonLotor> Discourse won the day.
03:15:33: <Roget> Excellent
03:15:53: <Roget> that both makes our relations better and allows the threat to be used in a better situation later down the line, if we need it
03:16:17: <ProcyonLotor> Yessir. It's a damn powerful card, and one I would have hated to waste on Cryosim.
03:17:23: <Roget> Yeah. I strongly prefer to issue it myself, anyways. I think it holds more weight coming from the person directly authorised with it

Yurp, this is how they operate.

Roget and Procyon talking about how the site, especially the Harassment team, is broken due to an increasing pandering to overly-sensitive moral considerations (something we all here agree with actually):

07:46:25: <Roget> So uh
07:46:31: <Roget> what's all this about sensitivity and such
07:46:39: <Roget> this is honestly coming totally out of left field for me
07:47:31: <ProcyonLotor> It's hard to explain if you don't see it in action. It's more of a general cultural shift than something we can point to and say "this is the problem". But the best thing I can point of is the discomfort policing.
07:47:36: <ProcyonLotor> Stuff like gringo, tonight.
07:48:02: <ProcyonLotor> Now, don't get me wrong, I fucking hate AH and would be happy to see her gone. But stopping a user from saying gringo?
07:48:39: <ProcyonLotor> Or the "no contact after do not talk to me" thing. Ops shouldn't be replacing the role of the ignore button- that's not our job.
07:49:00: <ProcyonLotor> Especially when it's personal dispute bullshit and not legitimate harassment.
07:49:13: <ProcyonLotor> But the current way of doing things, those two might as well be entirely equivalent.
07:49:38: <ProcyonLotor> It cheapens cases where shit is actually happening and allows for specious bans on bad grounds
07:49:50: <Roget> who're the people in favor of keeping things this way?
07:50:52: <ProcyonLotor> Moose, mainly, and a couple of rubber stamps. The problem is is that any raised concerns are portrayed by people supporting it as "endorsing harassment or racism or what have you"
07:51:08: <ProcyonLotor> It happened to Eskobar and it happened to Kaktus. I saw it firsthand with both.
07:51:23: <ProcyonLotor> And it was the primary reason leading to both of their resignations.
07:52:33: <Roget> Did Esko resign? I always thought his ability to be active kind of dwindled and he left to focus on his new wife/kid and stuff
07:53:02: <Roget> moose hardly seems that involved these days anyways
07:53:33: <ProcyonLotor> He's less so, but he stopped Kaktus from making any progress on these fronts with the rest of the admins
07:55:13: <ProcyonLotor> But it's not really a question of any particular user. Moose was doing what they thought right, here, but a lot of us either disagree or believe they went too far.
07:55:22: <ProcyonLotor> It's just... a general cultural shift.

They plan an overthrow of thedeadlymoose and establish a new generations of admins:

07:58:59: <Roget> I just think we need a general management shakeup
07:59:06: <Roget> bring in some new blood to take the site in the direction it needs to go
07:59:23: <Roget> our current suite of admins leaves a lot to be desired and are letting a lot of stuff just... happen
07:59:28: <Roget> like this situation
07:59:33: <ProcyonLotor> Another issue I agree on very much.
08:00:03: <ProcyonLotor> And that post will be coming, but harassment's the first battleground- it's the thing that's most obviously broken
08:01:16: <Roget> Who would you want to be admins, if we were to do a new suite of promotions?
08:03:04: <ProcyonLotor> well, kaktus was my number one but that's gone to shit
08:05:34: <ProcyonLotor> Yeah. I really like Moose, and I know that a lot of what I said sounds like some guntalk conspiracy, but allow me to say I've never thought Moose was operating with anything but the absolute best of intentions.
08:05:42: <ProcyonLotor> However, I would also prefer them in a moderator role.
08:06:48: <Roget> I think what really needs to happen is people need to talk to the admins and say "look, we need to freshen things up. it's not working the way it is right now."
08:15:14: <Roget> Basically, the way I see it, the establishment that Moose ushered in to replace the 2010-early2012 Bright-dominated staff has more or less fallen apart and what moose did to Bright, we need to do to Moose and the rest of them
08:32:28: <Roget> does that sound accurate?
08:32:38: <ProcyonLotor> It certainly does.

The most shocking thing about the above quotes is that ProcyonLotor thinks Kaktus would make a good admin.
Power grabs in the form of secret cabal coups seem to be pretty common at SCP, huh?

 

[Punished “Venom” pH]

Power grabs in the form of secret cabal coups seem to be pretty common at SCP, huh?

It’s just scheming all the way down. Apologies to moose, who deserved better for all the work put in for us to just take it all for ourselves

 

[Furret]

The most shocking thing about the above quotes is that ProcyonLotor thinks Kaktus would make a good admin.

I mean, it's already well-established at this point that Procyon has poor judgement.

Also, I'd just like to point out that everyone they mention as good Admin material in that conversation was eventually given the position, with the exception of Crayne.

 

[Punished “Venom” pH]

I mean, it's already well-established at this point that Procyon has poor judgement.

Also, I'd just like to point out that everyone they mention as good Admin material in that conversation was eventually given the position, with the exception of Crayne.

Crayne would have been an admin if he hadn’t seen the game for what it was and quit to focus on his family. As wise as anyone else who involved themselves has ever been.

 

[Lil' Misogynist]

As an iteration, it's fine, but it's still just living on borrowed time until Wikidot finally shuts down. Not to mention RPC is still just as vulnerable to sex perverts as SCP. There are so many variables that go into a project like this that someone is bound to be hurt

Late reply but this is very much a possibility. SAXiao tried to run off to RPC in 2019, a few months after he’d been banned for being a predator, to join his Guntalk buddies EchoFourDelta, Tox, etc. He got banned but it was a shitshow. His angry white supremacist friends fought hard to prove him innocent and nearly all of them, some of which were contributors at that point, left the community together to protest his ban. Any part of the internet that openly welcomes banned SCP community members risks the possibility that it will attract someone who was banned for a very good reason, and needs to be watchful.

Edit:

“m_e” here is Modern_Erasmus, now captain of IO. I used to think he was the slightly removed, sagacious type, but have recently realized he’s more like a priss who, as Roget and Procyon say here, gets sand in their vagina as often as possible.

Just wanted to say that I disagree with this. I don’t know much about M_E but almost everything I’ve seen suggests that he’s a great staff member who puts the wellness of the community first. Also, as far as I’m aware, he was strongly opposed to how the sex scandal was handled in May of 2020, so there’s that.

 

[Punished “Venom” pH]

Late reply but this is very much a possibility. SAXiao tried to run off to RPC in 2019, a few months after he’d been banned for being a predator, to join his Guntalk buddies EchoFourDelta, Tox, etc. He got banned but it was a shitshow. His angry white supremacist friends fought hard to prove him innocent and nearly all of them, some of which were contributors at that point, left the community together to protest his ban. Any part of the internet that openly welcomes banned SCP community members risks the possibility that it will attract someone who was banned for a very good reason.

Cyril, Echo, VAE, Aelanna, Tox & Xiao: Too Toxic For The SCP and/or RPC Wikis

 

[Cow-Chan]

Cyril, Echo, VAE, Aelanna, Tox & Xiao: Too Toxic For The SCP Wiki

To be fair, Sax was/is a literal pedophile and frankly the way he was handled was how people like Bright and Gabe and the ones like them should've been handled, which is to say, banned immediately upon discovery from every possible related vector.

 

[Furret]

Cyril, Echo, VAE, Aelanna, Tox & Xiao: Too Toxic For The SCP and/or RPC Wikis

Would you mind elaborating on what some of these people did? Cyan and Xiao have been discussed here already, and I know that Echo was a white supremacist and Aelanna constantly fought with everyone, but what did VAE and Tox do? I barely even know who Tox is.

To be fair, Sax was/is a literal pedophile and frankly the way he was handled was how people like Bright and Gabe and the ones like them should've been handled,

Gonna have to disagree here. Quietly disappearing the predator and then acting like he never existed isn't really-

which is to say, banned immediately upon discovery from every possible related vector.

Oh. Yeah, that's fair.

 

[Cow-Chan]

Gonna have to disagree here. Quietly disappearing the predator and then acting like he never existed isn't really-

I was there the day he got banned. It wasn't quiet. Maybe to an outside viewer, but pretty much everyone who was around back then knows.

 

[Punished “Venom” pH]

Would you mind elaborating on what some of these people did? Cyan and Xiao have been discussed here already, and I know that Echo was a white supremacist and Aelanna constantly fought with everyone, but what did VAE and Tox do? I barely even know who Tox is.

Gonna have to disagree here. Quietly disappearing the predator and then acting like he never existed isn't really-

Oh. Yeah, that's fair.

Tox was a chat op and close compatriot to others in #scpguntalk, a hub for SCP white supremacitsts who were another protoYurt looking for an opportunity to take a power grab that never came. I think he may have engaged in sexual shenanigans but I don’t remember. I’m sure more info is in the log dump tho.

VAE is kind of like Procyon, except that he’s a Marxist and somehow slightly more of an asshole. The main difference is that VAE never got so much as a sniff at power, got banned and eventually drifted away for repeated jerksssitude mixed with legitimate criticism taken by the SCPss as jerksssitude.

 

[Furret]

I was there the day he got banned. It wasn't quiet. Maybe to an outside viewer, but pretty much everyone who was around back then knows.

I mean, yeah, of course when an established user gets thrown out there's going to be internal turmoil, but they sure seem like they want to suppress knowledge of it for people who weren't there at the time.

 

[Punished “Venom” pH]

I mean, yeah, of course when an established user gets thrown out there's going to be internal turmoil, but they sure seem like they want to suppress knowledge of it for people who weren't there at the time.

All that really started with Mr. Wilt iirc SCPss wanted the Anti-Harassment to “protect” victims by making it so their names wouldn’t be known to be spread around in rumors but it really has just become a mechanism to squash out inconvenient claims because until very recently it was impossible to do anything else if the SCPss deemed you unworthy of empathy. Really, you can look at how long Bright was involved with AH and just leave it at that.

 

[ToS]

Receipts for the RU stuff:
(View these in Google Chrome for an auto-translate from the Russian, I don't know what else to tell you.)

Spoiler: LINKS (Warning: Russian text)

RU announcing its first product from the Audrey Duskin/ARTSCP collaboration in 2015; a calendar for the 2016 year and noting the first art book:
http://scpfoundation.net/forum/t-1448810/artbuk-i-kalendar-po-scp#post-2408629 [archive]

The 2016 Duskin/ARTSCP calendar goes up on the -RU SCP Wiki main page in a dedicated link bubble (left side, scroll down, in green):
http://web.archive.org/web/20160117063914/http://scpfoundation.ru/
(The archived link still goes to an old version of the ARTSCP site where you can directly purchase it.)

The -RU main site featuring a permanent link to Duskin's 1st edition ARTSCP book, which was released in June and up on the site by mid July 2016 (same green box on the left, it replaced the calendar link.):

The SCP Foundation

web.archive.org

(This stayed up for 3 years, featuring each of the 3 editions of the art book.)

The O5 thread where the Russians come to -EN asking for help taking down someone making money off translated articles (previously linked):
http://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-2171743/russian-youtube-audio-versions [archive]

The -RU forum thread where they tell the RU authors that they are meeting the -EN licensing people halfway, and will feature CC BY-SA 3.0 for all translated articles, but retain the CC BY-SA-NC 3.0 for Russian-original articles:

https://archive.ph/AxNtM

A -RU forum thread where they merely give their authors the option of going to CC BY-SA 3.0:

https://archive.ph/2Z2i0

And finally, the -RU forum thread where they tell the RU authors that sorry, we are caving in full and anyone can freely make money off your works after all this time. They throw shade at-EN licensing representatives while doing it:

https://archive.ph/vdqxV

Spoiler: IMAGES

I put these in here because it is clear from them that the -RU admins felt it was OK to sell products based on RU-original and translated -EN works, but not if someone else (non-staff or just not from the wiki I guess) did.

So RU thought that the basic concepts of SCP were CC BY-SA 3.0 (commercial), but that specific -EN articles that were translated into Russian for the RU branch, and RU-original articles, were protected under the Russian CC BY-SA-NC 3.0 license. In other words, RU-originals and translations of English SCP articles that were on the RU wiki page couldn't be used for commercial purposes outside of their author or translator's approval; that would be illegal, as they understood it. They say that "the only way of using the materials in a commercial fashion is voicing English articles in English... every other commercial usage of this sort is illegal and violates copyright." That's their copyright, the -RU site's, that they are referencing. They are not saying it is illegal for themselves do to that; just for others. How do we know this? Because they put translated -EN articles in their ARTSCP products (calendar, books):

Купить артбук по вселенной SCP - Том 1 | ARTSCP

Заказать книгу ArtSCP том первый, артбук SCP Foundation - цены, доставка | ARTSCP

artscp.com

The kicker here is that by mistakenly enforcing this license illegally for 7 years, the -RU admins were accidentally doing exactly the wrongdoing Duskin has purposefully been; shutting down commercial uses that should have been protected by law. (It's unlikely that this is the only time the -RU team shut down other commercial content creators in the Russian universe. I could swear their forums have several examples of this, but I'm coming up short on that right now.) Given that they worked so closely together and their real split and Duskin's betray came at the exact moment of this license change... I think Duskin just found a way to continue what the RU branch itself had been (more morally) doing for 7 years.

This isn't saying much about -EN, but they have vehemently declined sponsoring any products from their main page. The -RU legal funds have been the only exception.

To be clear, I don't think the Russians knew they were doing this, I think they believed they were justified in choosing the NC license to begin with and thought that shutting down non-sanctioned products was the morally correct thing to do. They did this out of respect and protection for their author's works... more than the English SCP will do for its authors! That's why they really didn't like the idea of suddenly changing the license for their authors essentially mid-flight, and why it was such a headache for them and their site.

Very funny situation.

P.S. The Russians hint in one of these links here that EN might get them kicked off Wikidot altogether over the license struggle (looks like Duskin would never have had a chance to happen if SCP owned Wikidot!), and then they essentially say right after "that's ok, we have a backup platform for -RU that is kinda functional, but that we won't give any details about just yet". So, another story for another day is that the -EN and -RU branches are in a veritable cold war race to platform independence, and there is still provable animosity, competition, and resentment between them over this (especially re: RU's reception of -EN's developments for Project Foundation). There is some insecurity for the -RU at least that if Project Foundation was enacted, the -INT branches might not survive the jump (although I think they probably would... but hey if they didn't and if the #standwithSCPRU legal funds were used to launch Project Foundation... how would that be for irony?!)

 

[Cow-Chan]

(especially re: RU's reception of -EN's developments for Project Foundation). There is some insecurity for the -RU at least that if Project Foundation was enacted, the -INT branches might not survive the jump (although I think they probably would... but hey if they didn't and if the #standwithSCPRU legal funds were used to launch Project Foundation... how would that be for irony?!)

I honestly don't think Project Foundation will ever be finished. I think Wikidot's level of shittiness gives staff a lot of control over their userbase(Even though their own website would give more), and are too unwilling to do any real work like making their own site to ever actually move off of Wikidot.

 

[Punished “Venom” pH]

I honestly don't think Project Foundation will ever be finished. I think Wikidot's level of shittiness gives staff a lot of control over their userbase(Even though their own website would give more), and are too unwilling to do any real work like making their own site to ever actually move off of Wikidot.

They get a lot of their authority from continuity.

 

[Furret]

I honestly don't think Project Foundation will ever be finished. I think Wikidot's level of shittiness gives staff a lot of control over their userbase(Even though their own website would give more), and are too unwilling to do any real work like making their own site to ever actually move off of Wikidot.

They're complacent. Wikidot's terrible infrastructure forces them to do a lot of extra work, but they have a constant stream of young/impressionable Junior Staff to handle the grunt work, so the top brass don't really give a shit as long as it works without too many problems. I have a historically bad track record with predictions, so take this with a grain of salt, but it looks to me like PF is going to stall until the small handful of middle-aged Polish men running Wikidot decide to pull the plug, at which point there will be a scramble to grab everything they can and jump to something else.

 

[BurnerPhone]

I honestly don't think Project Foundation will ever be finished. I think Wikidot's level of shittiness gives staff a lot of control over their userbase(Even though their own website would give more), and are too unwilling to do any real work like making their own site to ever actually move off of Wikidot.

Project Foundation has been in development hell for years. Wikidot is simply the easier (and cheaper) solution. If they really wanted to move to a different site they would have paid someone to make the website by now.